Beginner Solar Power Questions (for full-time boondocking) - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Jonathan C · RV-Dreams Community Member

Beginner Solar Power Questions (for full-time boondocking)

Rickl · RV-Dreams Family Member

Very in depth and good questions. I'm sure many will contribute but if I may suggest, contacting AM Solar may be a good starting point to get the bulk of your questions answered. Also they have a very informative website that may answer a lot of your questions. Good luck.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Recommend getting your favorite beverage and start digesting these:

This older write-up from Howard has a bit more a story to it and provides some overview:

http://www.rv-dreams.com/our-rv-electrical.html

This one gets into the meat of it:

http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm

What you need is totally based on how much your going to boondock and how much power you will use. Both write-ups assume one will use / need 120 volts which means an inverter.

Amedia1 · RV-Dreams Community Member

Hi Jonathan,
I would recommend you to call or email to elitesynergysolutions.com . This company are good involved in this field and know the stuff perfectly. You can ask them any questions related to solar panels. They can also recommend you to buy or to choose the right for your RV.
Good luck

Danny and Cheryl · RV-Dreams Family Member

IMHO you need a Honda 2000 and forget the solar stuff. you will save lots of money this way

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

The other responses are great…but there are a couple of other things you need to figure out before you even start to consider solar.

1. What is the amp hour capacity, type, and age of the existing house batteries…these are the ones that power things in the house as opposed to the starting battery that cranks the starter on the engine.

2. Do you already have a generator?

3. What's your budget for doing solar.

Bottom line…solar is a lifestyle choice. Even if you boondock 6 months out of every year it will be a long time before you break even on the cost of installation of solar, a bigger AGM battery if necessary, inverter, and all the labor to install it. If you're planning on being in RV parks mostly and just occasional boondocking…the suggested Honda 2K generator is a much more economical option. Given you've purchased a 1999 model RV…I'm suspecting budget is a concern and solar might not be within it.

The suggestion of elitesynergysolutions.com I wonder about…a quick look at their site and it looks like they're mostly doing residential or fixed building installations rather than RV. There are a bunch of good RV solar installers depending on where you are in the country.

You need to first learn a bunch more about what you already have…what your energy requirements are…and what you need to provide them. An energy audit on the coach is another thing needing doing that helps answer the second of these questions. With knowing what you really have already and how much power draw you need available…then you can take a look at the budget and go from there.

Solar ain't cheap…we already had the big AGM battery bank, solar pre-wiring to the roof, the big inverter, and the appropriate monitoring instrumentation in our New Horizons from the factory and it was still several thousand bucks for the 8 panels we bought, solar controller, and labor to put them all in. As I said…it's a lifestyle and budgetary choice…lots of folks think they'll get into solar and never have to pay for parking again…while that may be at least possible if you're out west there's still the problem of fresh water and dumping black/gray tanks that isn't easy if you're out in the middle of BLM land in the prairie. Best to figure out what you have and need and compare that to your budget. Not trying to talk you out of it…but as a new RVer you need to figure out a whole bunch of stuff before you throw money at solar which might not help solve your needs.

I would start with the links Bill recommended…and get a whole bunch smarter about both RV electrical systems, solar, and what you have already before doing anything else. There's lots of expertise here on the forum once you've done some of the basic educational reading to help you figure out what you need to meet your requirements.

LarryW21 · RV-Dreams Family Member

"IMHO you need a Honda 2000 and forget the solar stuff. you will save lots of money this way"

Danny, saving money isn't why I have solar. It's a lifestyle, it's easier than hauling out the generator, checking the fuel and oil, running it for an hour+, letting it cool, and putting it away,....AND it lets you enjoy a quiet afternoon parked next to me.

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

Larry…definitely true. Solar is a lifestyle but you pay for it and my impression from the OP was that budget was a serious consideration. Given that the recommendation for the Honda isn't really out of order. Given the OP's newness to both RVing and the forum as based on this being his first post and the post's content…I personally don't think he really knows enough yet to determine whether solar is appropriate for the situation or affordable.

Nothing wrong with being new…we were there 5 years back…and he's trying to learn before doing anything…all admirable. But…and it's a big but…as I said budget appears to be a serious consideration and I personally would likely not recommend solar until he (a) knows more and (b) has figured out that RVing is gonna work for him…no sense spending a bunch of money now to find out the lifestyle doesn't fit in a year.

The post subject…beginner and full-time boondocking…tells me that he doesn't know what he's getting into yet, that budget is definitely an issue, and probably has no idea how hard full-time boondocking is. I'm not knocking either of beginner or full-time boondocking…just trying to help the new guy like folks here and elsewhere helped us in the past 5 years. Heck, I'm still asking people things…looked for some info on Antelope Canyon just the other day…no use reinventing the wheel.

-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Monday 6th of February 2017 08:46:52 AM

-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Monday 6th of February 2017 08:50:31 AM

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

We are still a couple of years away from our FT start and by no means are we solar experts though we have solar under active investigation. I agree with all of Neil & Connie's points and potentially the idea of a modest generator (the Honda 2000) as well.

IMHO, solar is not a lifestyle choice, however boondocking (or otherwise being off the grid) is. Solar is just a means to an end. Budget constraints vs other power creation options is what will drive decision making. Solar will cost a lot upfront, but will save later... to a point. Sooner or later you'll need new batteries (not cheap). Gennies can be expensive upfront also, or not, depending on what you buy, but now you have to pay the going rate for fuel, currently it is relatively affordable... but who's to say what it will cost next month or next year. A genny will need periodic maintenance. In the long run they will both end up costing roughly the same (which is to say a lot) so it boils down to your comfort zone when it comes to certain intangibles, like peace and quiet, flexibility to meet your power consumption needs, how environmentally minded you are, how mechanically inclined you are, etc.

For us we have money in our budget to do a fairly large solar install, just in case we decide we'll want or need that much. Our priorities may change and we could go a different way but we have the benefit of time on our side at this point. YMMV, as they say.

FWIW, Brian

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Neil and Connie wrote:
Solar is a lifestyle but you pay for it and my impression from the OP was that budget was a serious consideration.
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Monday 6th of February 2017 08:46:52 AM
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Monday 6th of February 2017 08:50:31 AM

This is a slightly older thread but since its been revived with a few newer posts a comment from my perspective. Unless one is going off-grid as a specific, personal life style, do not think of solar as a way to save money. One will be very disappointed. Indeed, with enough solar one can live off-grid. But the second I hear "budget" and "solar" in the same sentence I know this is going to be difficult.

For most, not all, solar is just to supplement power needs for a few days along with a generator. Even with a small generator it can be difficult for "most" to break even on power costs. Naturally if one doesn't use hardly ANY 120 volt equipment it can be done. But that will get "old" pretty fast, IMO.

Again, if boondocking is for "fun" that's one thing. Just want to make sure anyone reading the thread understands solar; how little power one can actually produce in a day with the typical RV installation due to space limitations. And the expensive batteries (number) required especially with a residential refrigerator. The OP, I believe, is being realistic in what he wants to power. Great, realistic questions

We have solar, a generator and enjoy boondocking very much - as long as the weather doesn't require much air-conditioning although our generator can run both AC units. But that gets expensive real fast on a per hour basis.

Just some perspective comments for those reading along. Indeed, do your homework.

Bill

carolinakids · RV-Dreams Family Member

The 2000 Honda's want run long on a tank of fuel. Solar gives us a freedom like no other. Generators are a pain unless they are on board types and have a fun tank or run on propane. Just my opinion.

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

carolinakids wrote:
The 2000 Honda's want run long on a tank of fuel. Solar gives us a freedom like no other. Generators are a pain unless they are on board types and have a fun tank or run on propane. Just my opinion.

Mine runs about 6-8 hours on a tank…and it never runs more than a couple of hours per day to get the bulk charging done then switch over to solar for the float portion…unless there's no sun. A 5 gallon of fuel lasts 10 days at least for us…and one can always fill it while you're out at the local bar having a brewski.

If we didn't have the residential fridge then we could easily make it with no generator usage…but I like the extra space since it allows us to keep lots of infrequently used ingredients in there…an RV fridge just wouldn't have the space we need.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Neil and Connie wrote:
carolinakids wrote:
The 2000 Honda's want run long on a tank of fuel. Solar gives us a freedom like no other. Generators are a pain unless they are on board types and have a fun tank or run on propane. Just my opinion.
Mine runs about 6-8 hours on a tank…and it never runs more than a couple of hours per day to get the bulk charging done then switch over to solar for the float portion…unless there's no sun. A 5 gallon of fuel lasts 10 days at least for us…and one can always fill it while you're out at the local bar having a brewski.
If we didn't have the residential fridge then we could easily make it with no generator usage…but I like the extra space since it allows us to keep lots of infrequently used ingredients in there…an RV fridge just wouldn't have the space we need.

Listen up! This is a very big deal as Neil is a great cook! Almost as good as Linda. "Ask me how I know this." :)

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill and Linda wrote:
Listen up! This is a very big deal as Neil is a great cook! Almost as good as Linda. "Ask me how I know this." :)

Trust me…I'm better you're just biased.

carolinakids · RV-Dreams Family Member

We really like the Honda's for needed power but, its a pain in the rear (to me) dealing with them after having solar installed. For one thing our Honda's were powering a 30 ft. f/w with one a/c and if we fired up the microwave they tripped out. Next, the Honda's only runs 1 hr under load so every hour on the hour we had to refill until we bought an extra gas canister. Now I have another piece to store somewhere and it has to go outside account of the fumes. With the solar we pull up to a spot, break out the smart phone find the path of the sun and try to turn RV (sunshine) that directions. If theres no sunshine then the Honda's go into service. But as soon as sun comes out off they go. We love the solar. My solar installer is from Wyoming in the summer and Arizona area in the winter. If you want to talk to him look up https://wyominggypsysmobilehomesteading.wordpress.com/ and https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcwsCAkv49OJcxW66c1iBng/featured

-- Edited by carolinakids on Friday 17th of February 2017 06:11:08 AM

Old_Man · RV-Dreams Family Member

I would suggest reading everything you can about the topic, determine what you need based on your own energy assessment. I determined I wanted 400ah of lithium iron; not ion, batteries. I will build my own, using 3.2vdc 50ah cells which look like this...eight of the buggers. But it costs less to build your own. I'll source them directly from China. ALL lithium battery packs, everywhere in he world, use cells from China. Why should I pay Battle Born's ridiculous prices? FWIW, my solar installer looks at me when I shave. He's really quite a weenie.

Typical LiFePo4 3.2v 50AH battery module.

-- Edited by Old_Man on Monday 19th of February 2018 12:51:04 PM

-- Edited by Old_Man on Monday 19th of February 2018 12:53:14 PM

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

I'm not knowledgeable about solar, so I will simply note that this thread was originated 2 years ago and was last posted to one year ago. For the benefit of anyone that is considering solar, keep in mind that some information here might be out of date. Thus, be sure and verify any information located in this thread to insure that it is still valid information.

Not being knowledgeable, I obviously don't know if new technology has replaced information posted before.

Terry

LarryW21 · RV-Dreams Family Member

Not much has changed in the last two years regarding RV solar IMO except prices for MPPT controllers seem to be down a little.

Old_Man · RV-Dreams Family Member

LarryW21 wrote:
Not much has changed in the last two years regarding RV solar IMO except prices for MPPT controllers seem to be down a little.

Look at panel prices in China.

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Old_Man wrote:
...I determined I wanted 400ah of lithium iron; not ion, batteries. I will build my own, using 3.2vdc 50ah cells which look like this...eight of the buggers. But it costs less to build your own.

400AH of 3.2VDC using 50AH batteries wired in parallel... yes.... but only 100AH of 12.8VDC which is approximate RV DC voltage. (4 wired in series then those 4 wired in parallel with another set of 4 wired like the first 4). You're gonna need 24 more of those batteries to build a 400AH 12.8VDC battery bank.

-- Edited by BiggarView on Tuesday 20th of February 2018 10:14:59 AM

mycroft8 · RV-Dreams Community Member

It is possible to go from 3.2VDC to 120VAC; but power losses will be higher than if starting from 12VDC. Also, most RV's will have a 12VDC electrical system for some lights, slide motors, etc.

If you are going to max solar, there are arguments to go for as high a voltage as possible; say 24VDC or 48VDC, to minimize conversion losses. I have seen papers on car design, saying that the automotive industry needs to migrate away from 12VDC electrical to 24VDC or 48VDC; again to minimize losses.

Old_Man · RV-Dreams Family Member

mycroft8 wrote:
It is possible to go from 3.2VDC to 120VAC; but power losses will be higher than if starting from 12VDC. Also, most RV's will have a 12VDC electrical system for some lights, slide motors, etc.
If you are going to max solar, there are arguments to go for as high a voltage as possible; say 24VDC or 48VDC, to minimize conversion losses. I have seen papers on car design, saying that the automotive industry needs to migrate away from 12VDC electrical to 24VDC or 48VDC; again to minimize losses.

Individual cells will be wired together to create a 12vdc pack. Still working out the battery management system I need to wire in. Obviously need something.

LarryW21 · RV-Dreams Family Member

“If you are going to max solar, there are arguments to go for as high a voltage as possible; say 24VDC or 48VDC, to minimize conversion losses.”

I disagree, mycroft8. You can use smaller wire but wire doesn’t cost that much. Show me a study that says my 12 volt nominal solar system is less efficient than if I sent 24 volts nominal to my controller. Then we get to shading issues on panels in series...I’m a forest camper.

Old_Man · RV-Dreams Family Member

LarryW21 wrote:
“If you are going to max solar, there are arguments to go for as high a voltage as possible; say 24VDC or 48VDC, to minimize conversion losses.”

I disagree, mycroft8. You can use smaller wire but wire doesn’t cost that much. Show me a study that says my 12 volt nominal solar system is less efficient than if I sent 24 volts nominal to my controller. Then we get to shading issues on panels in series...I’m a forest camper.

I'm confused, 24vdc panels? They will be.

LarryW21 · RV-Dreams Family Member

Sure, old man. Here’s a link to a company that sells 24 volt RV panels...www.solarblvd.com/product-category/solar-panels-systems/24-volt-solar-panels/