How much propane - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Hdrider · RV-Dreams Family Member

How much propane

Barb and Frank · RV-Dreams Family Member

We are in a 42 foot fifth wheel and also have an induction cooktop. However, we have our Weber Q hooked up to the rig’s propane and we use the grill frequently. Last year we spent the winter in Florida and here’s what we spent on propane. November $35, December $27, January $67, February $30. We have found that propane prices can vary widely from place to place, so it‘s best to shop around. We just arrived in Florida for the winter and our cost in November was $57. We also use a space heater and the fireplace during the day. Our budget is $50 per month.

Barb

NorCal Dan · RV-Dreams Family Member

The first year we owned our MH we spent a winter in Verdi, NV. Not knowing any better, we used both furnaces in the rig, hot water and refrigerator on electric, and our propane tank (40 gal) lasted 1 month. I eventually added an 11 gal external tank so I could refill without having to move the rig, and during the coldest weather here on the pacific coast I could get 2 weeks out of it using 1 furnace and space heater supplement. While in Kansas, I knew people in 5'ers that went through a 11 gal tank every 3 days. Every thing depends on how cold it is outside and how well your rig is insulated, # of slide outs and windows make a huge difference.

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

We have a gas stove…use propane for our water heater about 10% of the time when we're in colder climes or with colder ground water…and a 40 pound tank lasts for months. On the other end of the spectrum, our first year we were on the road and spent part of October in Franconia Notch NH…lows about 30 and highs about 40. With both furnaces set to Heat all the time…a 40 pound tank lasted about a week. Typical 40 pound fill is 20 bucks or so.

After that first autumn in NH…we changed and rarely use the furnace even in colder weather. We use the electric fireplace for our primary heating source but turn it off usually when we go to bed. With the insulation in our New Horizons…lows of 30 mean the inside is down to maybe 58 or 59 by in the morning…so we run the furnaces one cycle just to get up to temperature then kill them and use the fireplace.

Sounds like you're very similar to our travel style…we spend winters in Fort Myers FL and travel May through October…so we've spent some time where it's cooler in the spring and fall…and we probably fill one of our 40 pound tanks 4 to 6 times a year max.

Tractor Supply is usually the cheapest place to fill up…then Lowes or Home Depot…although the latter two (at least down in the south) don't have a fill station but one of those Blue Elephant (or whatever the name is) rack of tanks.

-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Sunday 9th of December 2018 12:38:06 PM

Barbaraok · RV-Dreams Family Member

We have a 40 gal tank, which means 32 gallons when ‘full. We rarely use propane for heating unless it is going to be freezing overnight so we can keep bays warm. Fill once a year, usually about 20 gallons.

Hdrider · RV-Dreams Family Member

Barb and Frank wrote:
We are in a 42 foot fifth wheel and also have an induction cooktop. However, we have our Weber Q hooked up to the rig’s propane and we use the grill frequently. Last year we spent the winter in Florida and here’s what we spent on propane. November $35, December $27, January $67, February $30. We have found that propane prices can vary widely from place to place, so it‘s best to shop around. We just arrived in Florida for the winter and our cost in November was $57. We also use a space heater and the fireplace during the day. Our budget is $50 per month.
Barb

Thanks for the comment, I admit those numbers surprised me a bit. I just might be revisiting our budget sheet LOL!!

Hdrider · RV-Dreams Family Member

Neil and Connie wrote:
We have a gas stove…use propane for our water heater about 10% of the time when we're in colder climes or with colder ground water…and a 40 pound tank lasts for months. On the other end of the spectrum, our first year we were on the road and spent part of October in Franconia Notch NH…lows about 30 and highs about 40. With both furnaces set to Heat all the time…a 40 pound tank lasted about a week. Typical 40 pound fill is 20 bucks or so.
After that first autumn in NH…we changed and rarely use the furnace even in colder weather. We use the electric fireplace for our primary heating source but turn it off usually when we go to bed. With the insulation in our New Horizons…lows of 30 mean the inside is down to maybe 58 or 59 by in the morning…so we run the furnaces one cycle just to get up to temperature then kill them and use the fireplace.
Sounds like you're very similar to our travel style…we spend winters in Fort Myers FL and travel May through October…so we've spent some time where it's cooler in the spring and fall…and we probably fill one of our 40 pound tanks 4 to 6 times a year max.
Tractor Supply is usually the cheapest place to fill up…then Lowes or Home Depot…although the latter two (at least down in the south) don't have a fill station but one of those Blue Elephant (or whatever the name is) rack of tanks.

-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Sunday 9th of December 2018 12:38:06 PM

Thanks, your more current experience sounds a lot like what we experience in our current motorhome as far as heat cycles in the morning. We have Aqua Hot that runs from our fuel tank so the propane tank thing will be new for us.

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

One thing that you will have to keep in mind is that you have fairly small propane tanks on your 5'er, compared to what we have in our MH. You will have to constantly monitor which tank is full and which is empty, and then take the empty one to get filled.

Several years ago we were in Stillwater, OK for five months, starting in January, with several other couples. Everyone else was in a 5'er, and nearly every day at least one was going to get propane. We never did, and they began to worry about us. Finally, in March, we had to drive the coach in to get propane. They couldn't believe it. Then I showed them the size of our propane tank (80 gallons), and they realized why we didn't need to get propane as often as they did.

Since that time we've learned to use electric heat whenever we can, so that we usually fill the propane tank only once or twice each year. We're also using an electric fry pan instead of the propane stove.

Barbaraok · RV-Dreams Family Member

I never use the gas oven, like the convection/microwave. Also would rather use electric griddle or fry pan if cooking inside. We do have a Weber grill for outside and use the disposable canisters - pick them up on sale at Frey Meyers as we move north in the summer. Since we are usually paying for the electricity with our site charges (weekly or daily) there is no reason not to use the electricity that we have paid for.

Rickl · RV-Dreams Family Member

Not sure what all the hubbub is about using propane. We have both a gas range and oven. I run the water heater on both electric and propane (faster recovery time). From May 1st to November 1st we used one 40 lb tank (approximately 9 gallons). It cost me $21.00 to fill. My electric bill runs higher then that.

To be fair, in January when we were in Tulsa at 0 degrees and above we did burn through $150 of propane for the month. So that includes the furnace, cooking, and water heater. As the campground didn’t charge for electric I’m not sure how much kilowatts we went through.

Bottom line for me is there is going to be a cost either way.

Hdrider · RV-Dreams Family Member

Rickl wrote:
Not sure what all the hubbub is about using propane. We have both a gas range and oven. I run the water heater on both electric and propane (faster recovery time). From May 1st to November 1st we used one 40 lb tank (approximately 9 gallons). It cost me $21.00 to fill. My electric bill runs higher then that.

To be fair, in January when we were in Tulsa at 0 degrees and above we did burn through $150 of propane for the month. So that includes the furnace, cooking, and water heater. As the campground didn’t charge for electric I’m not sure how much kilowatts we went through.

Bottom line for me is there is going to be a cost either way.

No hubbub, as I mentioned in my original post I'm just a numbers kind of guy working on next years budget and we are switching to a RV with propane from a all electric coach that we have been used to so I'm just getting a rough idea what I might need to put in the propane budget box. No real big deal, it will be what it will be but if I go to the trouble o work on a budget I may as well try to be as close as possible.

arcaguy · RV-Dreams Family Member

As one of the partners in the CPA firm where I did my internship said. When you're estimating, make your best computation, double it, and add a little more and you shouldn't be off by more than 50%.

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

Motorhome people worry about propane more than towable people because our tanks are fixed in place by law. That means we have to move the motorhome to get propane and that complicates things a lot. Yes you can get adapters to use an external tank, but that has its own complications and is not allowed in all camping spots. Many cities and campgrounds do not allow onsite propane delivery, like here in Mesa AZ. Plus our experience is that onsite delivery costs can more than many other places.

If electricity is included in the site costs, why spend extra money on propane? Even for a towable it is not just the cost of the propane that adds up, since the cheapest propane is probably not on your normal route. Tank exchanges for 20# tanks are a rip-off in most places, often costing twice as much as the cheap places. Also watch out for places that charge for a full bottle fill even when it is a partial fill, though these places will only get your business once.

The rule of thumb on propane versus electricity is about 22 to 1 on cost, cost per kilowatt-hour of electricity versus cost for one gallon of propane, since that is approximately when the usable BTUs of heat match. An example is if you get charged 15 cents a kilowatt-hour of electricity (high in most places) then 22 times 15 is $3.30. If easy to get propane is cheaper than $3.30/gallon then propane is cheaper in this example.

Rickl · RV-Dreams Family Member

bjoyce wrote:
Motorhome people worry about propane more than towable people because our tanks are fixed in place by law. That means we have to move the motorhome to get propane and that complicates things a lot. Yes you can get adapters to use an external tank, but that has its own complications and is not allowed in all camping spots. Many cities and campgrounds do not allow onsite propane delivery, like here in Mesa AZ. Plus our experience is that onsite delivery costs can more than many other places.

If electricity is included in the site costs, why spend extra money on propane? Even for a towable it is not just the cost of the propane that adds up, since the cheapest propane is probably not on your normal route. Tank exchanges for 20# tanks are a rip-off in most places, often costing twice as much as the cheap places. Also watch out for places that charge for a full bottle fill even when it is a partial fill, though these places will only get your business once.

The rule of thumb on propane versus electricity is about 22 to 1 on cost, cost per kilowatt-hour of electricity versus cost for one gallon of propane, since that is approximately when the usable BTUs of heat match. An example is if you get charged 15 cents a kilowatt-hour of electricity (high in most places) then 22 times 15 is $3.30. If easy to get propane is cheaper than $3.30/gallon then propane is cheaper in this example.

Not to really beat a dead horse but I’ve never paid close to $3.30 per gallon for propane. As to electric cost the least I have paid is .12 cents with it usually in the 13-14 cents area. Utilizing the swap method is a rip off. It’s the convenience factor. Most people don’t calculate want the cost is but then again I’m not too sure many full timers are using 20 lb containers. A quick check on the internet usually results in finding a decent price.

Barbaraok · RV-Dreams Family Member

~$0.11/KW SRP in Mesa.

Also, depending on the efficiency of your propane appliances, the calculation will need to be adjusted. Then factor in how easy it is to move rig, etc to get propane plus the fuel cost getting to where you can get the motorhome in to be filled, etc., using electricity is the best way to go, especially if it is included in your site costs.

Hdrider · RV-Dreams Family Member

arcaguy wrote:
As one of the partners in the CPA firm where I did my internship said. When you're estimating, make your best computation, double it, and add a little more and you shouldn't be off by more than 50%.

LOL, thats about right!!

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

"Not to really beat a dead horse but I’ve never paid close to $3.30 per gallon for propane. As to electric cost the least I have paid is .12 cents with it usually in the 13-14 cents area. Utilizing the swap method is a rip off. It’s the convenience factor. Most people don’t calculate want the cost is but then again I’m not too sure many full timers are using 20 lb containers. A quick check on the internet usually results in finding a decent price."

I will beat the dead horse then. I was using easy numbers, most places do charge less for electricity, but there are horror stories. If you don't ask, you can end up paying much more for propane or electric than you expect. 15 years ago the local Shell station charged $3.50/gallon, but still had many using it because they did not comparison shop. At a campground in Florida we had onsite delivery, once, since it was $4.00/gallon and a $5 delivery charge. Close by we could fill for $2.00/gallon. I know people who fuel their vehicles at the next station they notice and others who run Gas Buddy or have other ways to comparison shop. 20lb containers are the easiest to get and carry for extra tanks, like for a motorhome using an adapter or for the BBQ. Many vandwellers use 20lb tanks.

In Southern California the monthly sites at campgrounds get charged electric like an apartment, with the rates going up as usage goes up, from around 12c to 24c to 48c a kilowatt-hour, often with taxes and convenience fees added. A small trailer using a space heater can end up with a $300 electric bill in the mountains. The campground pays a cheaper flat rate as a commercial enterprise on non-monthly sites, but the utility charges the monthly sites like an apartment. it is not right, but I think it is not right to charge homeowners escalating rates while big stores like Wal-Mart pay a cheaper flat rate.

Hdrider · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks everyone for the comments.
The 5th wheel we are having built will have 2 40lb tanks and the only thing that will run on propane will be the furnace and water heater when the electric side won't keep up, which I hope isn't that often. All three air conditioners will have heat pumps and even though we have heat pumps on all 3 air conditioners in our current motorhome we don't normally turn to them for heat so we might change our habits a little.
Again, thanks

Rickl · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hdrider wrote:
Thanks everyone for the comments.
The 5th wheel we are having built will have 2 40lb tanks and the only thing that will run on propane will be the furnace and water heater when the electric side won't keep up, which I hope isn't that often. All three air conditioners will have heat pumps and even though we have heat pumps on all 3 air conditioners in our current motorhome we don't normally turn to them for heat so we might change our habits a little.
Again, thanks

I’m not sure how New Horizon handles thier fresh, grey, and black tanks. But one of the reasons I have to run the furnace (propane) is that is how I can get heat down to my basement so the various tanks don’t freeze up. While I don’t have the Yeti package (heated tanks/lines) I was told by my dealer even if I had the package in extremely cold weather I needed to run the furnace to keep the basement temperature up. Unless the entire water system has heat tapes I would think you would need to run the furnace to a point. My resolution to the problem is to stay away from cold temps.

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

>>

not sure how New Horizon handles thier fresh, grey, and black tanks

<<

There’s a heater duct that dumps in the basement to keep them from freezing...we solve the problem by not being there. We have been down to about 30 posh or maybe a little less overnight and neither the tanks or the water fill had an issue. Mostly I rely on that being colder weather than we have any intention of being in.

Glenn West · RV-Dreams Family Member

If i was building a new NH i would spec 4 20# tanks. Those 40# tanks get heavy and the older you get the heavier they get. And in a pinch, you can get those tanks most anywhere

Hdrider · RV-Dreams Family Member

Rickl wrote:
Hdrider wrote:
Thanks everyone for the comments.
The 5th wheel we are having built will have 2 40lb tanks and the only thing that will run on propane will be the furnace and water heater when the electric side won't keep up, which I hope isn't that often. All three air conditioners will have heat pumps and even though we have heat pumps on all 3 air conditioners in our current motorhome we don't normally turn to them for heat so we might change our habits a little.
Again, thanks
I’m not sure how New Horizon handles thier fresh, grey, and black tanks. But one of the reasons I have to run the furnace (propane) is that is how I can get heat down to my basement so the various tanks don’t freeze up. While I don’t have the Yeti package (heated tanks/lines) I was told by my dealer even if I had the package in extremely cold weather I needed to run the furnace to keep the basement temperature up. Unless the entire water system has heat tapes I would think you would need to run the furnace to a point. My resolution to the problem is to stay away from cold temps.

Not that we have not been in a few below freezing nights since going fulltime but I can assure you we do not go to areas that we KNOW will have them LOL!! And we have absolutely no thoughts of spending a winter in cold climates in our future as we see it now.

As far as the way New Horizon heats the basement area, well I think the front furnace has to be on and there is a duct connected to it that warms the tank and manifold area. They used to put the manifold inside the basement compartment which I liked but they have now started putting it behind a door from the outside which I like incase of any leaks but not for keeping it warm in cold areas.

Hdrider · RV-Dreams Family Member

Glenn West wrote:
If i was building a new NH i would spec 4 20# tanks. Those 40# tanks get heavy and the older you get the heavier they get. And in a pinch, you can get those tanks most anywhere

Good point.

Glenn West · RV-Dreams Family Member

I wanted to do that with our Teton but just not enough height in opening for them.

Lynn and Ed · RV-Dreams Family Member

The only time we go thru propane is when we are boondocking [think beautiful remote locations]:

that is primarily to charge the batteries via a built-in generator, if we are staying for a period of time that our solar cannot keep the batteries charged to at least 50%, and
to a much lesser degree to run the furnace/heat (but that is not typical).

Otherwise, we might fill one or two propane tanks a year, since the propane is solely used for the stovetop and to periodically exercise the generator and furnace.

We had NH install their “Arctic Package” (added insulation on the water lines, heat tape and tank heaters), so the few times we have been in a colder climate for a longer period, we have turned on that package (not sure it was needed, but at the time we had not started monitoring the basement temperature via a thermometer). Now, when we are in colder climates (e.g., temperatures dip into the 20s or low 30s at night)—we are monitoring the low basement temperature via a thermometer. Even when the temperature has been in the high 20s-low 30s for several days, at night, the lowest our basement temperature has reached was 37 degrees fahrenheit —and that was when we were not running the furnace or arctic package. Our preference is to use electric heat (i.e., fireplace, ceramic heater) whether our electric is metered or not, since it is quieter and simpler.

A caveat is we have AGM batteries; if we had Lithium batteries in our basement, we would be much more particular about the basement temperature range.

Lynn

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hdrider wrote:
Glenn West wrote:
If i was building a new NH i would spec 4 20# tanks. Those 40# tanks get heavy and the older you get the heavier they get. And in a pinch, you can get those tanks most anywhere
Good point.

Keep in mind that 4 - 20lb tanks do not contain as much USABLE LP as 2 - 40lb tanks. IF one is using a generator especially or the furnace, NH and some others have two furnaces, due large volume of gas required and the need for the gas to change to a gas from the liquid one may not be able to get as much "out" of a 20lb tank as a 40 when the level gets low. ("Ask me how I know this.") This is especially true in colder weather. So in reality one would not have 80 lbs of USABLE LP.

olderthandirt · RV-Dreams Family Member

Also for safety reasons, tanks are only filled to 80% of rated capacity.

NWescapee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hi Dave,
OK, "real world" numbers. The last 3 winters (Nov-Mar) we've spent 30-50% of our time boondocking and averaged $30/mo on propane. April - October we are generally on hookups and average $20/mo in propane. Like you, we really try to stay out of areas that are below freezing, although occasionally we've had that issue in Tucson in the middle of the winter months.

We have two 40# tanks on our Mobile Suites and one 20 # tank that we use for our propane campfire. To be honest, most of our propane use in our non-boondocking months goes for that campfire, we love sitting outside in the evenings, especially when we're camped with friends, we've been known to deplete a 20 # tank in 2 weeks just for the pleasure of sitting around a campfire swapping stories with friends.

We have a propane stove and that's generally all that we use propane for when we're on hookups. Very rarely do we use the propane option on our water heater when we have hookups, although occasionally we do when we only have 30 AMP and we want to keep the A/C running because it's too warm outside.

I budget $25/mo and have never been over budget on an annual basis with that number.

Hope that helps!

Hdrider · RV-Dreams Family Member

NWescapee wrote:
Hi Dave,
OK, "real world" numbers. The last 3 winters (Nov-Mar) we've spent 30-50% of our time boondocking and averaged $30/mo on propane. April - October we are generally on hookups and average $20/mo in propane. Like you, we really try to stay out of areas that are below freezing, although occasionally we've had that issue in Tucson in the middle of the winter months.

We have two 40# tanks on our Mobile Suites and one 20 # tank that we use for our propane campfire. To be honest, most of our propane use in our non-boondocking months goes for that campfire, we love sitting outside in the evenings, especially when we're camped with friends, we've been known to deplete a 20 # tank in 2 weeks just for the pleasure of sitting around a campfire swapping stories with friends.

We have a propane stove and that's generally all that we use propane for when we're on hookups. Very rarely do we use the propane option on our water heater when we have hookups, although occasionally we do when we only have 30 AMP and we want to keep the A/C running because it's too warm outside.

I budget $25/mo and have never been over budget on an annual basis with that number.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for that and those are pretty close to what I though be fore asking the question here, I was thinking $20 mist months with a $35 dollar month tossed in every 3 months to take care of the additional BBQ tank, we have not been using the campfire in the can a whole bunch it seems this year.