All of the truck builders have towing guides that give you all that stuff…you need to research the numbers for the truck you're considering. A couple of thoughts to keep in mind.

Don't buy the truck first until you've at least picked out the trailer.

Don't believe the builder of the trailer as to what the loaded for gross weight and pin weight are…try to find out from owners of similar rigs. Once you know the total trailer and pin weights…you really need to run the numbers to make sure you're not overloading anything. With almost all truck brands…with a fifth wheel the first limit you'll hit is usually the rear axle capacity.

Don't believe any trailer salesman or truck salesman when they tell you what the truck will tow or how much truck you need to tow their rig…they lie and will tell you anything. I've heard of an RV salesman who told a potential buyer he could tow a 34 foot fifth wheel at 16,000 GVW with an F150…which is almost surely incorrect. They'll tell you anything to get you to sign on the dotted line.

Bill Napier (and I and the internet) have spreadsheets and guides for doing the calculations for pin weight, axle weights, and figuring out how much truck you need.

 

ChefMom wrote:

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Can anyone tell me what make and model truck, 2500, diesel, with crew cab has the greatest towing capacity? Did I word that correctly? Not sure.

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 If you are planning on towing a 5th wheel trailer how much the truck's towing specification is, is irrelevant. Especially on a 2500 - i.e. single rear wheel truck. The truck will be overloaded on the rear axle long before maxing out the towing capacity.  If this makes no sense, welcome the the half-truth world of pickup truck specifications.  (Commercial trucks are totally different.)

Also, the model year of the truck has a great deal to do with specifications as to axle weight capacities and for what they are worth towing and combined weight capacities.

Forget what any RV salesman says as a pretty good rule as pertains to trucks.  They're job is to sell trailers.

As Neil says, find the trailer.  Get the weight numbers for the trailer and then select a truck.  Most of the time, except for smaller 5th wheels you will need a 3500HD to get the rear axle capacity needed.

Bill

Pretty simple, take the loaded truck with hitch, fuel, tool box, people, pets etc. Hit the scales. What does your rear axle weigh? Now take that number from the trucks RAWR. That is your allowable pin weight. Lets use 25% pin to have a tiny bit of fudge factor. Take the available pin weight number X 4 that will give you the MAX GVWR of the 5er you can tow.

Towing capacity is a JOKE and does not apply to 5er's!!! Most everyone who has a 250/2500 ends up with air bags.

Or.... you could change your domicile state. You could have your reasons for staying in Taxachusetts so I won't belabor the point. Just sayin' options exist for you to explore.

FWIW.

As I'm sure you will hear, the three most often used are SD, FL and TX. FWIW, we're Texans, so we didn't change much except our Domicile Address (our Son's home). But if you must change EVERYTHING (drivers license, voter registration, vehicle registration, etc.), there might be better choices.

Could anyone who is well versed in the proper way for us to establish residency in a state that would allow us to move forward with our plan to purchase a 3500 pu and 5th wheel without the penalties Mass has, please pm me with what they believe are the best states for this and the procedure required. Thank you. Karen

ChefMom wrote:

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Could anyone who is well versed in the proper way for us to establish residency in a state that would allow us to move forward with our plan to purchase a 3500 pu and 5th wheel without the penalties Mass has, please pm me with what they believe are the best states for this and the procedure required. Thank you. Karen

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 Pick your residency state first and then find a mailing service there and they'll walk you through it. We used Americas Mailbox in SD for 5 years but switched last fall over to St. Brendan's Isle in Green Cove Springs FL…better mail service and they have packages of directions and forms for doing all of the residency, voting, and domicile stuff.

As to which state…most full time RVers…unless they have reason to stay in their original state…use FL, TX, or SD with MT coming in next. All have unique requirements and rules and as I said we used SD and then FL and FL was easier. The only real thing wrong with TX is that you have to take the drivers test for the RV license in the vehicle…this wasn't possible when we originally did it as we didn't have the RV yet. FL was actually pretty easy to switch over…

 

-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Wednesday 31st of May 2017 06:05:57 PM

Will contact her. Thanks.

ChefMom wrote:

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Thanks for all the advice and doing it step by step helps. Will check insurance rates as well. I know it won't be good.

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Our insurance didn't go up much from the 3/4 ton to the 1-ton DRW in Texas. They're not registered as commercial vehicles there (every cowboy in the state owns one).

Rob

Thanks Terry. Good to know.

Cyclone Dave wrote:

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Cummins12V98 wrote:

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Pretty simple, take the loaded truck with hitch, fuel, tool box, people, pets etc. Hit the scales. What does your rear axle weigh? Now take that number from the trucks RAWR. That is your allowable pin weight. Lets use 25% pin to have a tiny bit of fudge factor. Take the available pin weight number X 4 that will give you the MAX GVWR of the 5er you can tow.

Towing capacity is a JOKE and does not apply to 5er's!!! Most everyone who has a 250/2500 ends up with air bags.

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 If you max out the RGAWR, does that mean you ignore exceeding the tow vehicle's GVWR? Is it okay to exceed the GVWR?

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Dave,

You need to be pay attention to all three ratings - RGAWR, GVWR and CGVWR. Any one of them, if exceeded, can expose you safety, reliability or liability issues. The liability situation occurs if you are in an accident and the investigation discovers you exceeded one of these limits, when the Insurance company, the other accident party or road authority may hold you liable to matter the cause, deny insurance coverage or get lawyers involved.  Most 5th wheel towing situations run into the RGAWR or CGVWR limits first. There are a number of gurus on towing numbers on this forum that can advise on specifics - it's where I got a got most of my info. Alternatively, here is a video on the subject from RVSEF

Air bags help the towing and non-towing driving experience, but do not solve any of the RGAWR/GVWR/CGVWR issues.

Gerry

Cyclone Dave wrote:

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Cummins12V98 wrote:

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Pretty simple, take the loaded truck with hitch, fuel, tool box, people, pets etc. Hit the scales. What does your rear axle weigh? Now take that number from the trucks RAWR. That is your allowable pin weight. Lets use 25% pin to have a tiny bit of fudge factor. Take the available pin weight number X 4 that will give you the MAX GVWR of the 5er you can tow.

Towing capacity is a JOKE and does not apply to 5er's!!! Most everyone who has a 250/2500 ends up with air bags.

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 If you max out the RGAWR, does that mean you ignore exceeding the tow vehicle's GVWR? Is it okay to exceed the GVWR?

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 Just an example.  My trucks GVWR is 14K, my front axle unloaded weight is 5,200# +-.  My RAWR is 9,750# and that is what I run.  By adding those two numbers I am about 1,000# OVER my GVWR.  Am I going to HE!! for this?  I think NOT.  The GVWR is set at 14K to keep my truck in Class 3 for licensing and insurance purposed.  I just need to have tonnage to cover my 6 tires.

Ask any trooper or weight master on any highway if I am overloaded or in any way will get a ticket.  The answer is NO.  Also those that say coverage will be denied please show me a case.  It's called insurance, if you are at fault they will cover you.

 

Bottom line it's all about what your rear axle can carry as in your rear tires capacity on SRW trucks.  

-- Edited by Cummins12V98 on Tuesday 4th of July 2017 09:07:16 AM

nineback wrote:

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I keep hearing many folks say insurance will be denied, you'll be ticketed, etc. I don't want to get into the weight police debate but does anyone have any real proof that this has ever happened?

Tom

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There are some states that require the owner to declare the maximum weight as part of the vehicle registration. If the owner is caught exceeding the declared registration weight, they can be cited. I have read occasional comments from individuals who got caught and were cited. A few had to unhook and have another truck tow their trailer.

Other than that, I don't know of any other state that will cite a non-commercial towing rig for exceeding any of the weight safety ratings. However, if an LEO sees a rig that appears to be an unsafe combination, there are other laws that one can be cited for. 

" I'm wondering how many years you have been teaching people that exceeding GVWR does not matter. You know your rear axle towing capacity methodology fails, yet, you appear not to care."

I gave an example of "MY" truck. The fact is if you are pulled over all that matters is what you are licensed for and you are not exceeding you tires ratings.

Please explain what part of my "methodology" is failing.

 

Why is the F450 rated at 14K ?

-- Edited by Cummins12V98 on Wednesday 5th of July 2017 08:19:58 AM

I don't want to get in the middle here, but I have always found it curious that when you add the FAWR and the RAWR it exceeds the GVWR of the truck ... in my case the sum of the two ratings is 15,590 but the truck is only rated at 14,000 (the tires aren't the limiting factor).

-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 5th of July 2017 11:47:21 AM

A little common sense goes a long ways, or does it??????

WHY and how could my rear axle be RATED at 9,750# if it puts my truck over 14K?????? Seems irresponsible to me??? It makes no sense since my FACTORY front axle weight will put the trucks weight WELL over 14K loading the rear to 9,750#.

"Curb Weight(CW): Ft. 4369, Rr. 3054"

^^^^^ That looks like 2wd GASSER Dually weights.

My truck on the scales brand new with 7/8 tank fuel with my wife and I in the truck, no hitch or toolbox. Front 5,380# rear 3,634#

The trucks have gotten so much more capable but the GVWR's have not changes because crossing to 14,001# places the trucks into the commercial licensing and insurance in many locations.

Does it make sense that the F450 has a lower capacity than the RAM 3500 or F350? Yes it does because they have to play the numbers game if they want to sell the 450 to the general public. The 450 has a higher curb weight, but does not make it less capable.

It should not be this difficult.
Some independent testing organization should be able to compile a list of trucks versus allowable towing capacity and maintain it current. If I am about to purchase a 5th wheel with a 14,000 gross weight, I should be able to know without hesitation the Acme 3500 double rear wheel diesel long bed or the Beta 4500 or the Charlie 3500 will do the job.
Shopping for such a used unit seems much more challenging that getting the trailer, weeding through the flatbeds and utility trucks and farm trucks and dog catcher trucks. My eyes glaze over.
Rant ends.

Cyclone Dave wrote:

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Cummins12V98 wrote:

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"Curb Weight(CW): Ft. 4369, Rr. 3054"

^^^^^ That looks like 2wd GASSER Dually weights.

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 Nope. Ram 2017 Regular Cab, 4X2, DRW, 6.7 Cummins Diesel (HO), 4.10

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Got it!  Forgot the front axle was only thinking the engine and transfer case. 

YesTerry and Jo wrote:

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RonC wrote:

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I vote for the Acme😜

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 But...but...but...

...didn't Wile E. Coyote buy from Acme all the time?

Terry

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 Yes he did.  On the downside, his plans did not work out very often.  On the upside, he never died.

RonC wrote:

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You also mentioned that the rating total GVWR was based on the "weakest link" ... while I agree with that, I'm not sure how that would change as the FAWR and the RAWR are already based on the "weakest link" ... still keeping the mystery of why the GVWR isn't the sum of the FAWR and the RAWR.

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 Ron:  If I am understanding your mystery question correctly:  Many factors go into the GVWR in addition to what the axles can "support."  One is braking.  I.e. meeting a braking standard (distance) for a given amount of total weight of the vehicle traveling at a  given speed.

The correct comment about the 14,000lb limit, even though the axles are capable of more - and maybe the braking is as well - does indeed have to do with "commercial" ratings, insurance companies and state registration.  All of these, especially insurance and state registration, are different depending on the state.  In some states it is very expensive to register a truck over 14,000 lbs and moreover some insurance companies in some states won't even insure those trucks based on "private" use and hence lower, private use rates are not available.

All that said to say why trucks like the F-450 (pickup) RAM 3500HD, F-350, etc. are considered Class III and not Class IV trucks even though they may have components (not all of them) from Class IV trucks.  They are specifically speced to be Class III so they can be insured and registered as private vehicles.  But those Class III specs are the legal specs.

"All that said to say why trucks like the F-450 (pickup) RAM 3500HD, F-350, etc. are considered Class III and not Class IV trucks even though they may have components (not all of them) from Class IV trucks. They are specifically speced to be Class III so they can be insured and registered as private vehicles. But those Class III specs are the legal specs."

THANK YOU!!!

Acheron2010 wrote:

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So, when shopping you identify a couple of contenders on Craigslist, or whatever Internet site. Few give the intimate details of gear ratios and specific tow info.
How do you get that info? Call a dealer with the VIN number?  Door sticker?

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 I won't swear to this because I haven't kept up with all the changes over the years, but I think the door sticker does give much of that information, at least to gear ratio and weights.  However, it won't give all the information on the weights.

Also, only use "tow ratings" as a rough ballpark figure.  If I were to hook onto a trailer that was as heavy as the "tow rating" for our F450, I would be over on GCVW and GAWR.  Many tow ratings are calculated using a goose-neck trailer and not a fifth wheel trailer.  The two types of trailers are constructed differently, thus allowing one to tow a goose neck that is heavier than a fifth wheel.

Also, much depends on how old the truck may be.  It has been mentioned that the Ford F450 is rated at 14,000 lbs so as to fall into the class 3 category, however, Howard and Linda's and our F450 are older trucks and likely do fall into the class 4 category because of a 14,500 lb GVWR.

Terry

Acheron2010 wrote:

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It should not be this difficult.
Some independent testing organization should be able to compile a list of trucks versus allowable towing capacity and maintain it current. If I am about to purchase a 5th wheel with a 14,000 gross weight, I should be able to know without hesitation the Acme 3500 double rear wheel diesel long bed or the Beta 4500 or the Charlie 3500 will do the job.
Shopping for such a used unit seems much more challenging that getting the trailer, weeding through the flatbeds and utility trucks and farm trucks and dog catcher trucks. My eyes glaze over.
Rant ends.

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It's not that difficult when using the right tool for the job. After entering the four minimum weight requirements into RV Tow Check, a person can read realistic vehicle towing capacities based on various pin weight percentages. 

No independent testing can account for all the possible towing requirements for every family size and weight requirements.