What is needed to pull a 17,000 lb MS? - RV-Dreams Community Forum

In Laymans Terms · RV-Dreams Family Member

What is needed to pull a 17,000 lb MS?

RonC · RV-Dreams Family Member

Short answer: 350/3500 dually of the brand you prefer, minimum.

Longer answer: I had a 1 ton (meaningless terminology these days) 2014 F350 SRW truck and I tow a 15,000 pound fifth wheel with a 3,200 pound pin weight. I was overweight on my rear axle by "only" 200 lbs and over GVWR and CGWR by about 900 lbs. Believe me when I tell you that the truck towed and stopped that rig just fine. If you go only by "feel" there was not a problem. It even looked "right" ... towed completely level and had no rear end sag. HOWEVER, if there was ever any kind of incident or accident, that overweight condition would definitely come into play and to my detriment. I could visualize law suits, insurance claim denials ... even a traffic ticket could result in an officer looking at the GVWR's of the truck and trailer and citing me for being overweight. Nothing good was ever going to come from that. So, I traded up to a 2016 F350 DRW and got legal and got safe. Based on my personal experience, I would tell you that you would almost certainly exceed the RAWR of a SRW 350/3500 of your choice. When it comes to towing and safety please don't ever try to "get by". The best advice I ever heard with regard to trucks is "buy more than you need". Although there are many people who do it (tow overweight with SRW trucks) and almost every trailer salesman will tell you it's OK. At some point that won't work out well (like when you go to get the proper license, or endorsement to operate your rig). I suggest you get a 350/3500 of the flavor you like and get a dually for sure. This would be the minimum truck to buy ... going to a MDT or even a HDT isn't unreasonable, but don't go with the SRW truck. One more thing regarding safety ... if the rig you're buying is a 2010, check the date of the tires. Anything over 5-7 years old should be changed out regardless of how good the tread looks. Trailer tires are different from truck tires and "how they look" is only part of the equation. Sorry if this sounds "preachy" but I've "been there and done that" and I would like you to benefit from my mistakes.

BTW, I'm assuming you would buy a late model (2-3 years old at the most) truck. The late model trucks are MUCH more capable than the same models just a few years older. Check the ratings to ensure you are getting enough truck to do the job.

Good Luck.

-- Edited by RonC on Sunday 18th of September 2016 09:09:18 AM

-- Edited by RonC on Sunday 18th of September 2016 09:14:29 AM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

In Laymans Terms wrote:
We are going to look at a 2010 DRV MS 36-tksb with a loaded weight of 17,000 (empty around 13,400). Wondering what the pros and cons are to a one-ton diesel single rear wheel - as opposed to a dually. We already know that IDEALLY we would buy a dually, but what we want to know is if anyone is pulling anything similar with a SRW truck, and if they have had any issues. Thanks for your input!

"Short answer: 350/3500 dually of the brand you prefer, minimum." Quoting RonC's short answer. Pay no attention to what the truck can tow in the marketing materials. You need the 350/3500HD rear axle rating to handle the pin weight and the DRW for safety and stability. Any of the big three, Ford, Chevy, Ram will do a good job.

soos · RV-Dreams Family Member

We wouldn't tow ours with a SRW. For above mentioned reasons and stability on the highway.
We originally had an '06 DRW F350 but we were over weight by 400 lbs. Not the way we want to travel, so I "made" my husband by a new truck. Being a Ford retiree, he ran out to buy it before I changed my mind :)

legrandnormand · RV-Dreams Family Member

How about if you got a 1 ton GM or RAM SRW instead of those FORDS ?

-- Edited by legrandnormand on Monday 19th of September 2016 09:20:10 PM

RonC · RV-Dreams Family Member

Because Ford Rules!!? That should get it goin'😜

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

At 17K for a trailer the debate isn't which brand but what type of truck to tow with. A SRW will tow it in a straight line but will it stop it safely going downhill, on curve, in the rain on uneven roads, when a tire blows out..... why would you put yourself in that precarious situation, just to save a few thousand dollars. Is your life worth so little? If, heaven forbid, you have a blow out at the wrong time the difference between a dually and a SRW will go a long way toward being able to tell a great tale around the campfire or being the subject of sorrow for friends and family.

JMHO.

Second point, if nothing else think about the wear and tear you are putting on the SRW tow vehicle by abusing it with a 17K trailer. The thing that gets me when I see them is the rig "pilots" that tow huge trailers with SRW trucks at 75MPH with factory E rated tires (granted DRV doesn't use those low quality tires anymore, but other Mfrs still do) that are clear underinflated and being driven way over their speed rating. Makes me want to get out of the way, cuz I can't tell them to slow down owing to all that testosterone pulsing through their veins.

FWIW, Brian

In Laymans Terms · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks for the honest feedback everyone. Not telling us anything we didn't know in our heads; we just wanted the confirmation, I guess! I just hate the thought that our run around vehicle from now on will be this gigantic truck!

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

Since we're spending your money (grin) get a crew cab dually and an 8' bed. Many people with shorter beds find that they need a slider hitch (more money, more weight, more complications) with the short beds. The crew cab will let you take others with you without having to have them remove their legs first. You might want to seriously consider 4WD as well. Yes, that's more $$$ and weight, but we watched a friend try to back up a small hill while on some grass. Tires just spun. Someone else finally hooked his truck up to the hitch of the 5'er and gave a little more backwards tugging. Had he had 4WD he probably would have been able to back up by himself.

I'm not up on new trucks (or old ones, either) but I've seen several reports that an F450 actually has a smaller turning circle than the F350. I've also seen reports that you can get the F450 front end on an F350. If you are considering new it might be something to ask about.

I've also heard that if you want the very best of the current crop of trucks, look at the Ram 3500 with the Cummins diesel and AISIN transmission. Of course, you are looking at $$$$$, but hey, you can't take it with you.

RonC · RV-Dreams Family Member

You will get used to it. It is an undeniably wide and substantial vehicle but as you drive it you will acclimate to it. I now feel uncomfortable in small cars ... less protected ... than when I'm driving the big truck.

RonC · RV-Dreams Family Member

David ... don't just look at the published towing numbers ... look at the comparison tests. To suggest that RAM is the "very best of the current crop of trucks" is ignoring the massive recall and buy back program going on with RAM.

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

kb0zke wrote:
I'm not up on new trucks (or old ones, either) but I've seen several reports that an F450 actually has a smaller turning circle than the F350. I've also seen reports that you can get the F450 front end on an F350. If you are considering new it might be something to ask about.

That is correct…my old 2012 F450 had a better turning circle than either a 350 or a RAM 3500HD. The 5500HD is better than either of those but not quite as good as the 450 was.

soos · RV-Dreams Family Member

Neil and Connie wrote:
kb0zke wrote:
I'm not up on new trucks (or old ones, either) but I've seen several reports that an F450 actually has a smaller turning circle than the F350. I've also seen reports that you can get the F450 front end on an F350. If you are considering new it might be something to ask about.

That is correct…my old 2012 F450 had a better turning circle than either a 350 or a RAM 3500HD. The 5500HD is better than either of those but not quite as good as the 450 was.

I agree that that WAS true but I don't believe it is anymore. We changed from a DRW F350 to the F450 mostly for the turning radius, but i *think* the new F350 Tow boss has the same front axle as the 450. We sure do love the turning in the 450!

legrandnormand · RV-Dreams Family Member

So the top of the best would be a 1 ton, 4 WD, DRW, 8' bed and crewcab ! Let's say well over $50K for a new pickup !

-- Edited by legrandnormand on Friday 23rd of September 2016 11:54:37 AM

RonC · RV-Dreams Family Member

Normand,

Not sure to whom or to what you are responding ... but a new 1 Ton, 4x4, DRW truck will certainly cost more than $50,000. It's not unusual to see the top of the line trucks to approach (and at times exceed) $70,000.

legrandnormand · RV-Dreams Family Member

The answer was for the title WHAT IS NEEDED TO PULL A 17,000 LBS MS?

You are right, I mentioned " well over $50K" and $70K is well over what I mentioned.

-- Edited by legrandnormand on Friday 23rd of September 2016 07:45:25 PM

-- Edited by legrandnormand on Friday 23rd of September 2016 07:48:02 PM

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

The is another option.....
A converted HDT. A semi truck that has been converted to rv hauler status. To build a new one is expensive but there are plenty of options available. Here is an example-
www.rvnetwork.com/index.php

In Laymans Terms · RV-Dreams Family Member

I love the passionate responses these threads elicit! It's great to see everyone is very invested in the lifestyle and has so much knowledge and experience to share. Thank you all!

Turned out the MS wasn't the trailer for us (is anyone else more than a little surprised at the dirty condition people will try to sell their trailers in? To me that screams 'I can't be bothered to clean this up for you', which also screams 'I don't care enough to take care of the details'). BUT . . . the same road trip took us to a nearby community where we found . . . and bought . . . a new 2015 Bighorn! About the same weight as the MS, so this truck discussion is still very apt :)

RonC · RV-Dreams Family Member

I would suggest my "short answer" again. I don't really see myself (personally) in a HDT ... but I also started out in a SRW truck (and didn't want a DRW) which I learned wasn't enough truck ... so never say never. I'm now a big advocate of DRW trucks!

legrandnormand · RV-Dreams Family Member

Alie and Jims Carrilite wrote:
The is another option.....
A converted HDT. A semi truck that has been converted to rv hauler status. To build a new one is expensive but there are plenty of options available. Here is an example-
www.rvnetwork.com/index.php

That is even better then any new or used 1 ton pickup !

-- Edited by legrandnormand on Friday 23rd of September 2016 09:41:53 PM

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

legrandnormand wrote:
Alie and Jims Carrilite wrote:
The is another option.....
A converted HDT. A semi truck that has been converted to rv hauler status. To build a new one is expensive but there are plenty of options available. Here is an example-
www.rvnetwork.com/index.php

That is even better then any new or used 1 ton pickup !

-- Edited by legrandnormand on Friday 23rd of September 2016 09:41:53 PM

Towing with the HDT is not for everyone. But we love it. We do a lot of long mileage days. 500 or better to relocate for work. It's comfortable to drive for 10+ hours, huge windshield like a Class A to see out of, big fuel tanks-(250gl- 2500miles), microwave, fridge, and the bed. Many friends carry a smart car across the back of the truck as well for their daily driver.

We fit anywhere a UPS of FedX delivery van can go.

The RVNetwork.com site is the Escapees forum. There is a large HDT and MDT crowd there regularly. Trucks always come up for sale as folks leave the road for various reasons. There are several companies that will build a truck for you as well.

RonC · RV-Dreams Family Member

legrandnormand wrote:
Alie and Jims Carrilite wrote:
The is another option.....
A converted HDT. A semi truck that has been converted to rv hauler status. To build a new one is expensive but there are plenty of options available. Here is an example-
www.rvnetwork.com/index.php

That is even better then any new or used 1 ton pickup !

-- Edited by legrandnormand on Friday 23rd of September 2016 09:41:53 PM

Better is subjective. It certainly is bigger. Assuming that you mean "bigger is better", what's with the smarty?

legrandnormand · RV-Dreams Family Member

To tow a 17,000 lbs 5th wheel you do need a good solid truck and lots of power and lots of $.

Just being a tourist and playing golf twice a week for our 6 month snowbirding, the 2 of us have plenty of space for shopping and we really enjoy cruising in our "convertible go cart", fully equiped with A/C if its hot, heated seats if its cold, a great audio system and a fabulous 40 MPG ! biggrin

RonC · RV-Dreams Family Member

No argument with any of that.

MarkS · RV-Dreams Family Member

I agree with Jim. An HDT isn't for everyone. I have "lived" in one for the past several years, Los Angeles, San Francisco traffic is easy to navigate...for me. My point is, no matter DRW or HDT, you will acclimate to the size. You may white knuckle it for the first few weeks but it will become the norm after a while. Having enough truck is the safety you need.

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

I need to add that we had a 2006 Dodge 3500 dually at the beginning of our adventure. I will say it "Worked" but we were over capacity on the tow ratings and rear axle ratings. Our Carrilite is 19500lbs, with a pin weight of 4800lbs. That is with ZERO water on board- all tanks empty.
When we knew we had to find a better tow vehicle, all the late model dually's we found that were acceptable, power windows, radio, cloth seats, long bed, crew-cab or extended cab, diesel, etc all had price tags starting around $45,000 for a used 100,000 mile truck to over $65,000 for a new truck. As we try our best to enjoy life without big monthly payments, none of these options fit our budget.
Our HDT cost us $19k. We sold the Dodge dually for $20k.
We have put money into the HDT, but less than $8-9k over a 3 year period. Tires being $3k of that.
For us personally, the HDT has been a cheaper route. Not the most convenient at times, but it is workable.

Glenn West · RV-Dreams Family Member

We owned a 17k DRV. We were not happy with it but that is another story. We towed it with a 2005 3500 dually Duramax. Won't happy with it either. Lot of weight for a dually. It will tow it but is lacking in mountains. If you stay on flat ground, it is adequate. Newer trucks have more power but no more load capacity. We are very content with our current tow truck. Also I actually get better mpg with HDT. A dually for a daily commute is a pain. The SmartCar goes easily, stingy on gas. I have been blocked in by 2 smaller cars on each side of my dually and couldn't get out. Something to consider. Like been said, A HDT not for everyone but we sure are better off for it. If all you use it for is towing get a big truck. I have less than 32k in mine but am not done customizing it yet. That is singling, 14' dove tail bed with best hitch money can buy. Lot less than 60-70k for a new dually.

RonC · RV-Dreams Family Member

At this point I don't see a HDT in my near future, but I can certainly see how others have arrived at their decisions and why a HDT was the best choice for them. Regarding the new crop of DRW LDT's ... the capabilities compared to similar trucks 10 years ago are WAY different. LDT's of today are closer to the MDT's of 10 years ago. I think the new Ram's have the very highest capacities, but my 2016 F350 DRW is pretty capable. My Ford's CGVW of 32,100 lbs and a RAWR of 9,650 lbs and GVWR of 14,000 lbs is a pretty capable truck ... when mated to my trailer (15,000 GVW and 3,200 pin weight), it is plenty of truck. There are definately some of the heavier 5er's that would require more truck ... maybe a LOT more truck 😜. But there are different horses for different courses. I will say that a big HDT and even some of the MDT make for an impressive package and look well matched to each other.

LarryW21 · RV-Dreams Family Member

That's a lot of trailer for a SRW truck.

In Laymans Terms · RV-Dreams Family Member

"Since we're spending your money (grin) get a crew cab dually and an 8' bed. Many people with shorter beds find that they need a slider hitch (more money, more weight, more complications) with the short beds. The crew cab will let you take others with you without having to have them remove their legs first. You might want to seriously consider 4WD as well. Yes, that's more $$$ and weight, but we watched a friend try to back up a small hill while on some grass. Tires just spun. Someone else finally hooked his truck up to the hitch of the 5'er and gave a little more backwards tugging. Had he had 4WD he probably would have been able to back up by himself."

So David, you can have a laugh at us, as we appreantly took your advice and got a crew ca, 4x4, dually with an 8' bed! Got a terrific year-end deal on a new 2016 Chev. It still looks massive to me when I look at it sitting in the driveway, but I have to say I'm glad someone (thing) in my family has a bigger rear-end than me!

Cannot wait to pick up the trailer we bought back in September, sitting in storage in Alberta, waiting for spring . . . Sigh . . .

LarryW21 · RV-Dreams Family Member

"Cannot wait to pick up the trailer we bought back in September, sitting in storage in Alberta, waiting for spring."

Are you watching for a "weather window?" There's gotta be a couple of days when you could scoot up to Alberta and quickly drag the trailer south.

In Laymans Terms · RV-Dreams Family Member

No, unfortunately we are not south now - we have six to eight months left to finish in our jobs before beginning to fulltime for good. The trailer is in covered storage so it's safe and dry. We don't have a great place to keep it where we are staying right now. Also, the business offered us a 30-day warranty on all appliances and water-related systems from date of pick-up, so we want to wait until spring to pick it up, camp somewhere nearby and use everything for a few days. It is about a nine-hour drive from where we live, so if there are issues, it would be great to find and fix them while we are there!