DRV, Luxe, Heartland, Open Range, Grand Design, & Lippert - RV-Dreams Community Forum

FamilyOf5 · RV-Dreams Community Member

DRV, Luxe, Heartland, Open Range, Grand Design, & Lippert

Rickl · RV-Dreams Family Member

I am a little confused on your comment that upgrading the tires would void the warranty on a Grand Design. They offer as an option the Goodyear LR "G". I have a Solitude 375RE being built now, but opted not to order them due to pricing (as a Goodyear retiree I can get them for less).

Now if you are saying you wanted the 17.5" option, along with 8K axles, I there with you in the wish this was an available option. (Along with disc brakes). We loved the layout and craftsmanship of the GD compared it to a number of other units. It eventually came down to the Solitude and the Landmark for us, but given the pricing we received on the Solitude with the options we added it became a no brainier.

Howard · Host

I can't speak to the voiding of a warranty due to an upgrade in tires other than to say it doesn't surprise me. My guess is they are concerned that people will upgrade the tires without upgrading the wheels, brakes, axles, and suspension thus leading to an unsafe situation if people load to the upgraded tire specs but overload on the rest. If upgraded tires are an option, I would think the rest of the running gear would also be upgraded, but perhaps not.

To answer your other questions:

1. Every time a manufacturer is purchased, there are rumors of a decrease in quality. Often it's just rumors, but sometimes it is accurate. Thor owns lots of manufacturers and though they are concerned about profitability (which may have some effect), they pretty much let the individual manufacturers keep their autonomy. In speaking with DRV owners, some believe the overall quality has decreased since 2008, and I'm hearing a little grumbling since Thor purchased them, but ultimately rely on your own research.

2. Augusta is new, but they are building quality units and there are some savings in their factory direct pricing. The Luxe is a great unit, but I personally think there is more value in the Ambition model (although I don't know if the Ambition has the second bedroom option you need). One concern about Augusta is their cargo carrying capacity - too low on some units. However, they are still feeling their way and I believe they will continue to modify their floorplans and construction as they listen more and more to their customers.

3. The Heartland Big Country is a step down from the Landmark, but it is another unit that I believe offers good value for the money.

4. We know a few people full-timing in Highland Ridge Open Range that seem to be very happy with their units. Time will tell as the folks we know are still in the early stages, and I'm just not sure whether the Open Range will ultimately hold up as well to full-time use.

5. Lots of folks talk about Lippert frames and failures, but you have to keep in mind that Lippert supplies most of the frames on towable units in the country. Some say 80%. Considering the numbers, my opinion would be that the percentage of failures compared to the number of frames produced is very, very low. Some manufacturers build their own frames or contract them locally, but they still have frame issues and failures in what I would guess would be about the same percentages. Yes, there are some frames with defects, but there are also frames that are overloaded by the consumer, over-torqued by the consumer (improper hitch/pinbox/truck configurations), etc. The manufacturers spec out the frames, so heavier units will have heavier frames, but when we load to the heavier specs (and beyond), we increase the potential for frame failure. Bottom line is whether the frame is built by Lippert or built "in-house", there is always the potential for frame failure. Some manufacturers have learned this the hard way and gone away from building their own frames and passed it off to Lippert to 1) gain some cost savings, and 2) pass off the liability.

6. We just posted an article called "What Fifth Wheel Would We Buy Today?" after eleven years as full-timers. It has links to numerous fifth wheel manufacturers we would consider, but I don't know how many of them have the family-friendly floorplan you desire.

Sounds like you are approaching this the right way, and you will ultimately make the best choice for your budget, your family, and your family's safety. :)

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

As a DRV owner, I can really only answer to what we have, and that is a 2010 Mobile Suites model. We have had very few problems with ours, with the primary things being the need to replace or repair the RV refrigerator that came with it. We've replaced it with a residential Samsung after modifying the space for the fridge. We also had a bad circuit board in one of our furnaces, but that was the only other "major" issue. The only other ones were weak fittings on a couple of the PEX water lines that came apart and did a bit of drenching.

If you were considering used, I'd avoid the 2012 and 2013 model years because those had the Schwintek electric bedroom slides.

As for frames, Lippert builds the frames for DRV, but they are to DRV's standards. On the Mobile Suites and Elite Suites models, those frames are a triple-box 15" frame. The only thing I remember of there being a failure of a DRV frame was probably due to overloading by the owner.

For you, the biggest issue "may" be that the only DRV's that I know of that have two bedrooms are the 43-foot models. That said, there may be some newer floor plans that I'm not aware of that may have a second bedroom. The only ones I know of would be the Full House model, which is a toy hauler where the garage area could be a bedroom.

Incidentally, we love our DRV and have lived full-time in it for almost 5 years now, experiencing temperatures between 115 degrees and -6 degrees and stayed comfortable inside.

Terry

FamilyOf5 · RV-Dreams Community Member

Terry,

DRV offers their 43 Manhattan model with a second bedroom that has only two bunks. When I spoke with them last year, they were willing to delete that second bathroom and build in a second slide for that room with a 3rd bunk above built-in wardrobe/drawer storage. This year, they have released a 44 Cumberland model floorplan that has a "Mid-Bunk Room" built into a slide between the kitchen and the master bedroom and bathroom. I have not yet contacted them about the possibility of making a few modifications to that model for comparison sake. I also have not yet found any dealer online as having this floorplan in stock and therefore no pictures or video walk-through to assist with internet research. DRV is still very much in the running for me and I have heard many complimentary things said about them, but the recent transition in ownership brought up questions from others that I thought I would ask about.

One of the unique features that really attracted my wife to Augusta is that they offer an upgrade in their Luxe brand: a residential oven/range -- I have not seen that offered anywhere else (though I assume New Horizons of Forks RV might be able to custom build that in).

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

I will offer this opinion: If a manufacture voids their warranty if one installs G114 "H" tires, I submit you simply don't want that brand.

If the rig is for full-timing you want 8K axles. Preferably MORryde Independent Suspension 8K axles with G114 "H" tires.

DRV, for one, offers this important MORryde option. In fact due to weight "issues" DRV is now offering dual axle 9K (that's not a typo - 9K) MORryde Independent Suspension with G114 "H" tires naturally. Some of the DRV dual axle trailers needed this and now that is an option and not a "special build" from MORryde.

The 9K axle and disc brakes assemblies are "massive." I know. I saw a lot of them in fabrication and some on DRV's last week at the MORryde plant. Several new trailers having MORryde IS's installed and aligned including DRV "snow balls."

Bill

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

FamilyOf5 wrote:

One of the unique features that really attracted my wife to Augusta is that they offer an upgrade in their Luxe brand: a residential oven/range -- I have not seen that offered anywhere else (though I assume New Horizons of Forks RV might be able to custom build that in).

New Horizons or Forks will install just about anything you can think of. Residential range and ovens are in many New Horizons and Forks. Both residential - or higher end - gas or electric - or induction - or a mixture. Whatever you want. Just put it on the build sheet when you design the trailer. If you can find a cut sheet on the product they can most likely install it.

FamilyOf5 · RV-Dreams Community Member

Howard,

I just finished reading your article. Good thoughts, I appreciated your putting that together. I don't think CrossRoads Carriage caught my attention last year. Reviewing their floor plans, they don't have any two bedroom models until you get down to their Cruiser brand and I'm guessing that a "mid-profile" fifth wheel might not necessarily built for full-timing... care to disagree or offer comments on the Cruiser brand?

One of the things you mentioned several times in your article was that you would not buy new -- unless my assumptions are off, I assume that's because you feel that you can get a nearly new two or three year old fifth wheel at a substantial savings compared to new? Other reasons why you would not buy new?

Another thing you mentioned was that you didn't want to spend over $100,000 on a fifth wheel. When I added up the amount you stated you wanted to spend on a used fifth wheel ($60-70,000), the mandatory upgrades ($10,000), and the high priority upgrades ($30-40,000), it adds up to over $100,000. ...So, my question is what is the advantage of buying used and going to multiple third-party vendors for upgrades vs getting all the upgrades you want built into your new home at the manufacturer site or dealer lot? I don't think I am likely to find what I'm looking for in a fifth wheel used (two bedroom full-timing rig with the right bed and storage combination).

You mentioned wanting to keep your fifth wheel under 40 feet in length. Is this due to driving/maneuverability, lot sizes, weight...? Many of the two bedroom models that I am seeing are in the 38-44 foot range and I'm wanting to understand what the minuses are for the longer rig.

Cargo Carrying Capacity -- just wanting to make sure I understand how to calculate this when I look at a manufacturer or dealer website. Is this the difference between GVWR and "dry weight" (GVWR - DW = CCC)?

NWescapee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Like Terry, we have a DRV, in fact we have the same year / model as Terry and Jo with the optional 4th slide in the bedroom for the dresser that gives us a bit more floor space. Unfortunately I can't say that we have had very few problems with it, we did buy a pre-owned unit (2 years old), and like Terry, had issues with the fridge and have both the cooling unit and circuit board replaced.

We've had the Lippert "never lube" bearings fail and replaced both axles last fall, we're having an ongoing issue with the Lippert hydraulics / leveling system, etc. I still think DRV builds a good unit, unfortunately most of our issues have been with the Lippert and Dometic components of the rig.

The current DRVs all seems to come with residential fridges which should take care of the Dometic issue. I'm not sure you can avoid Lippert components in most RV's, but when it comes time to buy the next RV, that is one area we seriously want to consider as we have been on a rant about Lippert for the past few months.

Would we buy a DRV again? Maybe, but I would look at the other options as well.

jayc · RV-Dreams Family Member

We've got lots of friends that have Big Country trailers and are enjoying them. The Big Country is one of three Heartland models (Landmark and Big Horn) that is rated and warranted for full time use. That is very important because the manufacturer backs this up in writing. Another thing to remember is that most Big Country's can be towed with no more than a one ton truck.

Good luck in your choice.

Howard · Host

First of all, I pointed you to the article mostly for the links to other manufacturers and brands. You have specific requirements with your family that I didn't attempt to address. With that said, I'll try to answer the questions it prompted. :)

Lots of people are full-timing in lots of different makes and models at a wide variety of price ranges. Many of the "mid-profile" units are not built for full-timing, but they do just fine. In your specific situation, you seem to have a budget for something with a bit sturdier construction, and I probably wouldn't include the Cruiser in my list.

We wouldn't buy new now because we can't afford to buy new and pay cash, and we refuse to finance. That's the big reason, pure and simple. Also, we are now comfortable that we know what we are doing, and confident in the upgrades/changes we would make, so used isn't "scary" any more. :)

What I was trying to say was we would buy a used fifth wheel, maybe even several years old, in the $30,000 - $40,000 range (what we could likely get out of our current unit) and then do the upgrades over time so that we would ultimately be in for $60,000 - $70,000 and have everything we wanted (as long as cash flow allowed us to do those upgrades over time). I wasn't talking about buying a used unit at $70.000 and then doing the upgrades, although I can see how it may have come across that way. Again, for us, it comes down to being able to pay cash and doing the upgrades over time would allow us to cash flow them (which is pretty much what we've done with our current unit).

I agree that you may not be likely to find what you are looking for in a used unit, although we've seen a couple of large toyhaulers where the garage was converted to that extra bedroom.

As for the length, we like public campgrounds and length can be a factor. Once you go over 30 feet, you start to eliminate some options, but not many. At 35 - 40 feet, you eliminate a few more places you can get into. Over 40 feet, you really start to lose options in the public campgrounds we like. Certainly, maneuverability is an issue, as is weight (affecting the tow vehicle choice), but the main thing for us is to have adequate living space but still be able to get into most of the places we prefer. And now, after eleven years, we know we could reduce our living space a little, and we would certainly prefer to tow as short a rig as we'd be comfortable in.

Cargo Carrying Capacity is indeed GVWR - Dry Weight. It's now a federally required number on all RVs since June 2008, and each unit has a sticker with CCC on it. The CCC assumes the fresh water tank is empty, so traveling with a full tank of water reduces the CCC by however many gallons times 8.33 lbs/gallon.

As I said before, you are doing your homework and I'm sure you'll choose what works best for you and your family.

FamilyOf5 wrote:
Howard,

I just finished reading your article. Good thoughts, I appreciated your putting that together. I don't think CrossRoads Carriage caught my attention last year. Reviewing their floor plans, they don't have any two bedroom models until you get down to their Cruiser brand and I'm guessing that a "mid-profile" fifth wheel might not necessarily built for full-timing... care to disagree or offer comments on the Cruiser brand?

One of the things you mentioned several times in your article was that you would not buy new -- unless my assumptions are off, I assume that's because you feel that you can get a nearly new two or three year old fifth wheel at a substantial savings compared to new? Other reasons why you would not buy new?

Another thing you mentioned was that you didn't want to spend over $100,000 on a fifth wheel. When I added up the amount you stated you wanted to spend on a used fifth wheel ($60-70,000), the mandatory upgrades ($10,000), and the high priority upgrades ($30-40,000), it adds up to over $100,000. ...So, my question is what is the advantage of buying used and going to multiple third-party vendors for upgrades vs getting all the upgrades you want built into your new home at the manufacturer site or dealer lot? I don't think I am likely to find what I'm looking for in a fifth wheel used (two bedroom full-timing rig with the right bed and storage combination).

You mentioned wanting to keep your fifth wheel under 40 feet in length. Is this due to driving/maneuverability, lot sizes, weight...? Many of the two bedroom models that I am seeing are in the 38-44 foot range and I'm wanting to understand what the minuses are for the longer rig.

Cargo Carrying Capacity -- just wanting to make sure I understand how to calculate this when I look at a manufacturer or dealer website. Is this the difference between GVWR and "dry weight" (GVWR - DW = CCC)?