SOLAR QUESTION - COACH POWER - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Big Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

SOLAR QUESTION - COACH POWER

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

I would want to know more about this system, like number and type of batteries, size of inverter, and what you are really expecting it to do, before voicing my opinion.

I am not sure I know anyone who plugs their RV into their inverter. It is too easy to mess up and your RV battery charger will easily kick in and that is a big waste.

Big Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

I am looking at going with the RENOGY Premium Solar Panel Kit - 400W Polycrystalline - 4pc 100W Poly solar panels - 40A MPPT Charge Controller - RENOGY MT-5 Tracer Meter for MPPT Charge Controller - MicroSolar - 2000W (Peak 4000W) Pure Sine Wave Inverter

Batteries will be 6 - Trjoan T -105's . I plan to expand this system later to 600 Watts which Renogy says I can do by just adding panels.

I am planning to boondock with this system but use it only for computers, lights and some appliances such as a Microwave sparingly. I will switch the refrigerator over to LP and Run the generator for air conditioning if needed. I may boondock 1-3 days per week but I do not think we will boondock for weeks at a time. If I decided to go that route I can grow this to 800 Watts without much work just by adding panels.

-- Edited by Big Mike on Monday 29th of February 2016 04:34:36 PM

-- Edited by Big Mike on Monday 29th of February 2016 04:38:36 PM

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Im with Bill and watching this one...........but I have 600wtt portable solar feeding 4 t-105's......solar goes to controller and then to batteries........inverter is wired thru battery circuit and feeds 3 outlets onboard from factory

not familiar with your coach but I wouldnt be plugging my coach into my inverter to power my outlets........is your coach factory supplied with an inverter or are you adding one?

Big Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

I am adding an inverter. My motorhome in a 2002 PacevArrow. It does have one battery currently that works just the minimum lights and a couple of outlets.

legrandnormand · RV-Dreams Family Member

IMO, this is a pure waste of money if you don't boondock 100% of times ! You already have a GEN, so just go ahead and use that damn GEN while you do boondock.

-- Edited by legrandnormand on Monday 29th of February 2016 10:02:49 PM

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

We are planning a solar setup also of similar size as the OP (or perhaps slightly larger) and are targeting 60-100 days per year of boondocking. MY calculations show the payback period of 3-5 years when counting the number of nights away from FHU CG's... definitely worth it to us. There are additional savings from not running the Genset but those savings are less dramatic. Add in one other possible savings... in certain situations adding solar to your rig can be a tax savings with current incentives in place that really play into the hands to those of us that are/will be FTing. There are other benefits to having solar, chief among them are peace and quiet vs a running genny and having alternate power options should you have a problem with the genny.

"Waste of money if you don't boondock 100% of the time?"... not necessarily, IMHO.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

This is one of those "not recommended" - but there is nothing electrically dangerous, as such, about plugging the coach into an inverter IF you know what your doing. And most don't. So I don't recommend it.

Obviously you must turn off all the breakers to devices not appropriate for the inverter - especially the battery charger / converter If you don't it will trip the breaker feeding it anyway due to current runaway, to coin a term, as the charger tries to keep up with the inverter's current draw and "pop goes the breaker."

There can be another issue plugging the rig into an inverter. Most newer inverters have a GFI outlet. That outlet will probably trip the GFI protection because there is no ground. Yes, there is a ground wire, but no tie between the neutral and the ground because there is no pedestal or breaker box where ground and neutral are bonded per the NEC. (Being general here. There are several ways to do this per code.) One can have the same problem with a portable generator. Another similar discussion for the same reason BTW.

Regardless, electrically there is nothing inherently wrong plugging a rig into an inverter electrically any more than a portable generator. With the proper breakers turned off the rig's electrical cable is just "wire." But if you don't know what you are doing it probably will not work and you will trip breakers. But, I again, don't recommend it due to the necessary electrical knowledge to make it work.

FWIW

Big Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Sorry for mis-communicating this. I am a first time RVer that will be going full time hopefully this fall. So we are easing into this.

The number of times boon docking that I mentioned will be a STARTING POINT, for us. So this figure of a few times and not for weeks at a time is just for the beginning of our full time travels. Longer term - (6-8 months) we plan on Boon docking for a week and even two weeks at a time in between camp ground stays. So our Solar plans will be justified, just not up front as we get used to our coach and all of the nuances of full time travel.

Based on our longer plans of boon docking, It will be more than justified to avoid the expense of camp ground stays and to take advantage of some beautiful state parks and BLM land. I am not interested in hearing the hum of a generator going all the time.

Thank you Bill for your comments. I am not a fan of plugging my coach into an Inverter either. But it had me intrigued because I know someone that does. He does have a checklist of everything to shut off so he does not create a charging loop in his RV. But I think that its a little hokie and would rather tie it directly into the RV Panel.

There are many diagrams, videos and instructions on how to install Solar in your RV and since I am an avid DIYer I can handle all of this. However, the missing piece for me is information on connecting it to your RV panel. Today in my RV there is a single deep cycle battery that is connected to my RV panel. I assume that is where I would connect my Solar system so that it has a direct connection to the panel. Would I be correct in making this assumption? How is everyone else connecting their solar system into their RV if you are not using an inverter or you want to power all outlets and lights in your RV?

Some of my questions may be "oh duh" to some people but not being an experienced RV person I appreciate peoples patience and advice.

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mike I am assuming but........you stated you have one battery and it runs a few 12vlt lites and a few outlets.......if those outlets work while you are on battery with no shore plugged in.....you have an inverter onboard.......add more battery and connect solar

Big Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks. I need to get over to storage and investigate this more and start going through my RV in detail. Plowing through the manual I found out that there is a small Solar panel that came stock with the 2002 model that provides a "trickle charge" to the battery. It is on the roof.

This is the text from the manual - Solar Panel (If Equipped) - Your new motor home may be equipped with an optional solar charger. The solar charging panel installed on the roof of your motor home is designed to "trickle-charge" your battery system. It is not intended to be a fast charger. It also cannot supply large amounts of current to operate 12-volt DC electrical equipment. When the sky is clear and under bright sun, the solar panel will help keep your batteries "topped-up". Do not try to operate 12-volt DC appliances with the output of the solar panel. A light on the air conditioner indicates when the solar panel is operating. The converter will automatically supply 12-volt DC power when your motor home is operating on 120-volt from the generator or a public utility. It also charges the coach battery.

So to your point all I would have to do is use this connection directly to the Solar system. I am not sure exactly what you can operate and I have noticed that it does operate some of the lights but not all or any other area of the coach like the water pump or Microwave. Again, I have to plow into this and get to the fuse panel and other electrical to take a look.

No sign of an inverter though either on the wiring diagrams or any of the manual material. I will go around and test the outlets to verify power to any of them. If no power to the outlets than maybe no inverter. I will take a look around near all the electrical fuses and batteries (located under the step) to see if I see one.

-- Edited by Big Mike on Tuesday 1st of March 2016 10:57:45 AM

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

That panel is a trickle charger of no real value.......my suggestion , Pay a reputable repair service or dealer to come out and give you a full walk thru of your coach so you understand all the operations and can point and ask as you go along...(bring a notebook)....worth every dime spent.......the dealer or previous owner should have done this to make it easy for you to understand the systems......good Luck

-- Edited by Lucky Mike on Tuesday 1st of March 2016 05:05:05 PM

Big Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Good suggestion. I did go through a full walk through but not detailed on the electrical system.

Big Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Update

I got together with an avid RVer that my wife met as one of her dental patients. He was nice enough to work with me and go through my RV and point out certain electrical systems. Also I bounced off of him my solar system design and he helped tweek it so that it would meet all code restrictions and safety. He is retired and has installed 800 watts of solar on his own RV. So Case closed and I am ready to install my solar system this spring.

legrandnormand · RV-Dreams Family Member

Case closed for the forum but you are way out on your "how to do it" !
Nice to have solar panels but where will you accumulate all of your 800 WATTS and on how many batteries and where will you install them ? Good luck my friend ! wink

John U · RV-Dreams Family Member

Big Mike,

When we purchased our 2014 Newmar King Aire with 570 watts of solar and added 2 panels to get to 800 watts we had thought we were done. The all electric King Aire has 16 batteries on a slide out tray and the 2 chassis batteries. Then we started reading in order of importance to us:

Technomadia's Lithium/Solar (http://www.technomadia.com/solar/)

The 12 Volt Side of Life Part ! & Part II (http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm & http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volta.htm) 2 months of reading everything here!

http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm

RV Geeks on You Tube

We boon-dock for 30-35 days 5-8 times a year in the High Chihuahuan Desert in West Texas on our ranch where the summer temps reach 110 degrees in July and August.

A/C weather LOL!!! biggrin

We DO NOT want to hear no stinking genny even though we got a factory 12.5 Onan! We are out here to hear the animals and the wind and a genny would also mask the sound of any trespassers!

Newmar denied our request for all LifePO4 Batteries so following the above referenced material I removed all 18 factory batteries and replaced them with LifePO4 batteries.

Our factory AGM batteries came in at 1152 pounds but our LifoPO4 are just 1000 pounds (in the RV), add in the extra components and wiring and is about even weight wise which was one of my goals. Nowhere close AH hour wise. The RV has 3400 AH : 2200 AH 48/60 volt, 500 AH 24 volts (our mod motor voltage), 500 AH 12 Volt, 200 AH mounted in the RV for security cameras, sat phone, and cell phone. The battery bay has heat strips added for winter and 4 fans for summer controlled by fan temp discs. (Technomadia recommendation) We have 2400 watts on the roof which will automatically adj/tilt depending on the sun but locked out when driving due to the height of our MH. No more ladder to the roof!!! We have 800 watts on pvc like Tecnomadia showed. We pull a 32' stacker trailer behind which has an parked umbilical to the RV and 2200 watts solar which will track the sun like a naval gun turret and 2 800 watt setouts which will tilt like the roof units all do. Big difference the tilting vs setout unit outputs which we have been tracking. Another 3400 AH in the stacker's battery banks. We have total battery capacity of 6800 AH plus the chassis batteries and a combined 7000 watts of solar total. That is a lot compared to the 570 from the factory solar option! We have a 4 burner induction cooktop with 2 burners @ 230V and 2 @ 110V. The W/D are 220Volt. Our slide pullout BBQ has the low burner on 110V and the High burner on 230V. We have 3 a/c plus the dash but do not recall ever having more than 2 on simul. We do not hear no stinking genny but can listen to the animals and the wind at night! We are high elec user but by following and understanding the above info it works well even for a DIY. We do not stay out much more than a month because all 4 of our boys are just out of college and we need to visit them monthly. Out of sight, out of mind per DW. I calculated the battery payback at 36.5 months. (incl solar and tax credits) So a worthwhile investment IMHO. We had extra outlets placed on each side of the MB so we can independently control the bed temp on each side reducing A/C. I have already applied for 2 patents using my own ideas on items used here, have another at the attorney's, and 2 more need better write ups/work on them hence no pics till all the patent stuff is done and Govt approved.

Big Mike, I made 2 flow charts. One for Functional Use or what is supposed to do what when I want it to. And then a point by point wiring flow chart tying all 8 systems, voltages, and interlocks in. When it came time to wire it all together it was simple. It is a lot more than just hooking up a solar panel/s to batteries with a few wires but easy if you plan it out beforehand.

My Thanks to those listed above for the trail blazing they put out there for us following them to succeed. bleh yawn biggrin

John

-- Edited by John U on Wednesday 9th of March 2016 05:07:28 PM

Big Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

There are lots of battery choices from Lithium to just deep cycle 6volt. My friend that I mentioned has Lithium. I have investigated many different choices and am working with him to do the proper sizing based on device needs and real world usage.

Big Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Wow. Your example is pretty much an extreme example of total off grid dry camping. I do not think I will get there. I also do not think I will become the Technomadia people either. I do recognize that its all about battery storage, capacity and which technology to choose. Just having panels is only 25%of the solution.

I do not plan on being in 90 or 100 degree temps but if I am the generator suits me fine. My plans for solar are to operate the bare minimum when boondocking. I come from an avid tent camping back packing background and have hiked the Appalachian trail (all of it). So boondocking to me means camping to most people with the minimum, lights, computer and from time time a hot shower and if need be, running the generator if I need other services.

Thanks to everyone for your advice and opinions. As per your comments this takes careful planning and selection. I feel pretty confident with his help and resources from here, Renogy, and many you tube videos that I will get it right.

Sushidog · RV-Dreams Family Member

Congrats on your ultimate solar system, John U! Have you considered switching to more efficient ac's than what came from the factory? I think it would have saved you quite a bit of money (and weight)on much smaller solar/batter system with an ultra efficient mini-split heat pump (which would also double as a space heater on those cool desert evenings). It would also free-up some roof real estate for he panels, assuming you didn't rack them above your ac shrouds (which from your description it sounds like you may have.)

Here are the mini-split heat pump units am looking at. www.geinnovations.net/HSAC_Productline.html

The HSAC-12H/C is a 1 ton (12,000 BTU) model that only draws 560 watts in ac mode and 600 watts in heat mode, giving it an incredible EER (not SEER) of 21.43! One of the best features is that it s a native 48v DC appliance so with a 48V battery bank (allowing the use of high voltage solar panels and thinner, lower amp rated wire, as they only draw 11.5 -12.1 amps at 48vdc, not a hundred or so 12v amps like a typical inverter powered, roof mounted, RV ac unit draws.) On the down side, they are pricy, at $2k each, but should quickly pay for themselves in electricity and system size savings. Here's their cost break down vs a typical ac system/solar and competing solar powered DC mini-split that's not quite as efficient. www.geinnovations.net/solar-electricity-cost.html

I know you have already designed and installed your sweet system, but they may be worth consideration for other projects or an eventual upgrade, should you ever decide to trade-in your current RV for a newer model. BTW, the Big Bend/Ft. Davis area is one of my favorite places to visit, and I have been doing every couple years since the early 1970's.

Chip

John U · RV-Dreams Family Member

Chip,

Thanks for the nice post. Sorry was unable to reply sooner. My 3 rooftop 15K 12V heat pumps have been replaced with prototype units and I am field testing them for 2 diff co's. Price was great as was "free" just have to turn in monthly reports and any recommendations for 3 yrs. Orig was a 15k 12V 2 speed compressor/variable speed blower & a 18k 24V unit. My neighbor was Head of R & D for a very large a/c manufacturer and went to another company and got me the 48v 18K unit that I had requested. Probably 3 years till hits the retail market. Great to have good friends. LOL!

Took apx a $3,500 hit (half the factory cost for a small system) after I started studying Solar versus just writing a larger check as the factory flexible glued on panels had to go and required almost an entire new roof. Moved them to our backup / kids RV so not total loss. Had to move almost everything on the roof that was small or could be moved..i'e' the vents, antennas, domes, microwave vent, drops etc mostly over to the sides inside the awning covers attachments. The Traveler and dome are down the center and use the rooftop camera rotation (360) to stand panels up so there is a route to walk on the roof. Very tight up there. Also my King Aire was 13'4" tall now is 13'5" tall so unable to double stack anything on the MH roof. Positive side of the roof repairs was that made it easy to get more insulation in the roof and the color changed LOL

Totally agree with you on the Davis Mtns. / Big Bend State Park area. Beautiful!!! The High Chihuahuan Desert is the largest desert in North America covering more than 200,000 square miles. It is where my wife and I spend 5-8 months a year out dry camping.

Chip hope you find your used class A gasser. Funny that you should mention 1970 as that was when I returned from 33 months 6 days of the scenic govt tour of SE Asia with over 2.5 years officers pay and allowances and within 2 weeks had attended my first RV show and purchased my first RV, a 28' Concord Gasser. Been "on the road" part time ever since.

John