First time RV buyer- Best option? - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Michaelv · RV-Dreams Community Member

First time RV buyer- Best option?

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mike,

First of all, welcome to the RV Dreams forums. You'll find the folks here are very helpful with answers, so ask away.

Don't go by the "rating" they have you. Go to your dealer and let them look at the particulars of your truck, including the data plate at the driver's door, to find out what your truck's rear axle weight rating and the trucks GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicular Weight). Then, to be more accurate, get your truck weighed with full fuel tanks, all passengers that would be in the truck, and any cargo you would carry in the truck.

With the truck's weight in mind, you would subtract that number from the truck's GCVW rating. That would be the maximum that your trailer can weigh with all your stuff inside or in storage in compartments outside, the weight of any water on board, the weight of LPG in the LPG cylinders, and any other stuff to go in the trailer. That will give you a ball park figure of how big of a trailer you could get, based on its GVWR (Gross Vehicular Weight Rating.)

Once you have the trailer's GVWR, take roughly 20% to 25% of that weight and figure that amount would be on your trailer's rear axle. When weighing the truck as mentioned above, also get the weights for each axle. Then you add that 20% to 25% to the weight you find when you weighed the truck. That total does not want to exceed the weight rated for the rear axle. You'll also want to avoid getting the total weight of your truck and the total weight of the trailer over the truck's GCVW.

Back several years ago, we had a Ford F250 that could pull 26-foot travel trailers or fifth wheels. It could possibly handle longer ones if the trailer is one of those "lightweight" trailers. However, those trailers don't tend to be great when someone is full-timing in their RV.

Terry

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

Welcome, Mike. Terry has a wealth of experience and information, so you can believe what he says. In fact, he is the guy I ask.

Figuring out how much coach a particular truck can safely handle can sometimes appear to be a very complex calculation, but it isn't really all that hard. Every truck is different, and it is possible to set up a situation where one weight is over the limit while all others are well under. That's a no-go situation. If ANY weight is over the limit you are overweight.

When you are weighing your truck don't forget the weight of the hitch assembly. You can do a couple of things here. First, you can go out and buy a hitch that you KNOW is over what you need (remember that the rule above). Even if it isn't fully installed, you can put it in the approximate place and weigh the truck. Second, you can find out the weights of various brands of hitches you are thinking about, and just use the weight of the heaviest. Figure that weight is directly carried by the rear axle and go from there. If you ultimately buy a slightly lighter weight hitch you can just built in a small safety margin.

Michaelv · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thanks for the swift responses. Yes this is all very confusing to me for some reason. The GVWR rating on my data plate says 10,000. Gross rear axle weight is 6,000. Where would i get my truck weighed? Also, based on my trucks 10,000 GVWR and the Gross rear axle weight of 6,000 and the GCWR of 24,500, what weight of trailer (wet) should i start with? Sorry for asking you to help with math I'm just really confused with all the different acronyms and what means what. I know that there is a maximum fifth wheel tongue weight of 4175 as well, is that the 20-25% trailer GVWR number i have to stay under for the rear axle?

I found the website rvtowcheck.com/rvtc_calculator.html in an effort to help with these calculations. Not sure if its accurate but he seems to be saying similar things to you both.

Thanks again for the wisdom!

Greatly appreciated.

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Michaelv wrote:
...I know that there is a maximum fifth wheel tongue weight of 4175 as well, is that the 20-25% trailer GVWR number i have to stay under for the rear axle?...

Yes that would be 20-25% of the trailers GVWR. If you put 4175 of kingpin weight on top of a hitch in a 2500HD diesel pickup you'll be asking for all kinds of trouble. Even at 25% that would make your loaded trailer's weight 16700 lbs. That will definitely exceed your trucks ratings. Add to that the weight of the hitch, passengers, gear in the truck. I'd look at trailers with GVWR from 12-13K to able to handle it safely both towing it and being able to stop it. The general wisdom is to find the trailer you like and then get the truck that will handle it safely. If you use your truck, your choices will be limited to it's capabilities and you may have to make some compromises for your living arrangements. . Only you can decide which path you will take because your circumstances, needs and wants are unique to you. Good luck with the research.

-- Edited by BiggarView on Saturday 27th of February 2016 08:07:51 PM

Second Chance · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mike,

Welcome to the forum! As others have said, Terry gives very good advice. As an owner of a Sierra 2500HD with the Duramax/Allison drivetrain, I thought I'd throw in my to cents worth (which may not be worth even that...).

Your truck will "pull" anything you put behind it - even up to the GCVWR on the door sticker. With a 3/4 ton truck, however - as Terry stated - towing fifths wheels, you will hit the max rating on the rear axle of the truck before you exceed the other ratings of the truck. My advice (which I actually follow/followed myself) is to load up the truck which everything you will have in it to hit the road: full fuel, anything carried in the cab or front of the bed, all add-on accessories, and (especially), your fifth wheel hitch - some of which can exceed 250 lbs. Then you and whomever else will be in the truck with you head on over to the nearest CAT scales and weigh in. Position the truck on the scales so you get separate front (steer) and rear (drive) axle weights. When you get home, grab your favorite hot or cold beverage, sit down, and subtract the rear (drive) axle actual weight from the scales from the GVWRR (gross vehicle weight rating - rear) on your door frame sticker. This is the margin you have left over for pin weight on the fifth wheel. Don't believe the 4,175 max pin weight in the Duramax owners' manual.

Some old-timers may tell you to keep everything 80% or less of the trucks ratings. The way trucks are rated has changed over the years and it's safer on late-model trucks to tow rigs that are closer to your maximum capacities. However, you really don't want to exceed the rear axle ratings and NEVER exceed the load capacity of the tires. You'll find that the rear axle and tires will max out long before you reach the 24,500 lbs. GCVWR for your truck. For example: my truck seems to have about the same weight ratings as yours (just slightly higher on the rear axle). I chose an Andersen Ultimate hitch system as it's about 150 - 200 lbs. lighter than most conventional fifth wheel hitches. Our trailer GVWR is 13,990 with a stated (dry) pin weight of a little over 2,000 lbs. Loaded up for full-timing, we are a little over 12,400 lbs. on the trailer and the load increased the pin weight to right at 3,000 lbs. Per the CAT scales, I'm 20 lbs. under the max rating for the rear axle of the truck - but still 2,000 lbs. under the GCVWR.

My first flight instructor was fond of telling me that, "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots; there are no old, bold pilots." You may encounter a certain crowd (usually on another RV forum that shall remain unnamed) that will tell you they exceed the max ratings of the tow vehicle by hundreds of pounds and have never had a problem. My response to that is, "Yet..." Try explaining what happened to an insurance provider if a tire blows and the rig is totaled because the rear axle/tire capacity was exceeded by hundreds of pounds.

Happy (and safe) travels!

Rob

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mike, it is actually simpler than it sounds. Gross weight of the truck is the maximum that the truck, including passengers, fuel, cargo, etc. can weigh. Gross axle weights are the maximum weight that can be carried on that axle. Your truck has a 10,000 pound gross weight and a 6,000 pound rear axle weight rating. Load your truck to the way it will be loaded when you are going to travel. Do a search for your nearest CAT scale and get the truck weighed. You will be able to put the front axle on one platform and the rear axle on the next. The scale slip will show you how much weight is on each axle. The sum of those two is the weight of your truck. I'm going to pull some numbers from the air to show you how this works.

Your weighing shows 3,000 pounds on the front axle and 4,000 on the rear axle. That means that your truck weighs 7000 pounds. If you loaded the truck properly you could carry an additional 3000 pounds. However, your rear axle can carry only 6000 pounds, and it already has 4000 pounds on it, so you can put only an additional 2000 pounds there. The pin (hitch) weight of a fifth wheel is supposed to be 20-25% of the trailer weight. That means that the gross weight of your new 5'er should be 8-10,000 pounds. In order to have that 10,000 pound coach you will have to make sure that you load the trailer so that you limit the pin weight to no more than 2000 pounds.

As for what to buy, I'd suggest that you start out by buying a used coach, rather than new. Very few people buy the right coach the first time, and there will be a pretty hefty depreciation on a new rig.

How you use your coach will tell us a lot about what brands to suggest. Are you going to use it only a couple of weekends a month, are you going to be in it for a couple of weeks at a time, are you planning on being a full-timer? Each of those will point you to a different set of coaches. Also, how many people/pets will there be? Are there any physical limitations for any of the people? Lots of questions you will need to answer before you get to the point of looking to buy something.

Spend some time looking at all sorts of brands, no matter the condition or price, to see what floor plans will and will not work for you.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Michaelv wrote:
Thanks for the swift responses. Yes this is all very confusing to me for some reason. The GVWR rating on my data plate says 10,000. Gross rear axle weight is 6,000. Where would i get my truck weighed? Also, based on my trucks 10,000 GVWR and the Gross rear axle weight of 6,000 and the GCWR of 24,500, what weight of trailer (wet) should i start with? Sorry for asking you to help with math I'm just really confused with all the different acronyms and what means what. I know that there is a maximum fifth wheel tongue weight of 4175 as well, is that the 20-25% trailer GVWR number i have to stay under for the rear axle?

I found the website rvtowcheck.com/rvtc_calculator.html in an effort to help with these calculations. Not sure if its accurate but he seems to be saying similar things to you both.

Thanks again for the wisdom!

Greatly appreciated.

Mike,

Since I have no idea where you live, I'll give a couple of generic suggestions as to where to get your truck weighed. If there is a truck stop anywhere near you, many have the CAT scales. Or, if you happen to be in rural America, check around for feed stores that carry feed for livestock. They may have a set of scales where you could get weighed. As mentioned above, in addition to getting the truck's total weight, get the axles weighed individually. CAT scales may do that anyway, but I can't say for sure. I've always used either feed store scales, or if in rural country, a grain elevator's scales.

Terry

Rickl · RV-Dreams Family Member

Just to add a suggestion no only weigh the axle weights but if you can also get per wheel weight. Having been in the tire industry fo almost 40 years what I have seen is trailers overloaded on one side where the weight wasn't evenly distributed. Over loaded and under inflation are the typical reasons for tire failure.

Michaelv · RV-Dreams Community Member

kb0zke wrote:
As for what to buy, I'd suggest that you start out by buying a used coach, rather than new. Very few people buy the right coach the first time, and there will be a pretty hefty depreciation on a new rig.

How you use your coach will tell us a lot about what brands to suggest. Are you going to use it only a couple of weekends a month, are you going to be in it for a couple of weeks at a time, are you planning on being a full-timer? Each of those will point you to a different set of coaches. Also, how many people/pets will there be? Are there any physical limitations for any of the people? Lots of questions you will need to answer before you get to the point of looking to buy something.

Spend some time looking at all sorts of brands, no matter the condition or price, to see what floor plans will and will not work for you.

Yea i have no desire to be bold in my first attempt at fifth wheeling and will be sticking well under the weight ratings. Thanks for all the great examples, its starting to make more sense now reading your posts.

I am looking at used rigs but still a little clueless about which ones are quality and which ones aren't.

I have a young family and i live in New York. I cant imagine we will be using it more than a couple weekends a month in the summer or maybe a week or two at a time visiting my in-laws in North Carolina for the races. There will be my wife and I along with our 2 young children. We will likely bring the dog as well (as much as i don't want to). No physical limitations, we're both under 30 and healthy and so are our children (praise God). I have been looking at rigs to anywhere from 6-8 as we may have friends/ family that would tag a long. There was a comment above mentioning the ultra lights trailers aren't great for full timing, which makes sense. I'm not planning on doing that, but are they still safe and reliable. I'm not overly worried about how old or new the rig is, i just want it to last and not fall apart and if there is a warranty, have the company stand behind it. I've read many reviews about certain brands not standing behind warranties or just being poorly made.

I'm also not opposed to getting a one ton truck if that makes more sense than my 2500, however if they're are decent fifth wheels i can pull with that i will just keep it.

Thanks
Mike

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

"I'm also not opposed to getting a one ton truck if that makes more sense than my 2500, however if they're are decent fifth wheels i can pull with that i will just keep it." Mike, get the real numbers for your current truck (gross axle weights, mainly, but the others, too). Then load the family into the truck along with maybe 300 pounds of ballast in the bed of the truck (simulate the weight of the hitch and planks that you will need for leveling) and get the truck weighed. If you talk to the people at the scale in advance they may be willing to let your kids see how the weighing is done (the part in the office, I mean). Make sure the kids are in their seats in the truck when you weigh it (wife, too). Don't know how you can keep the dog in his seat, but he needs to be along for the ride, too.

Once you have the actual weights you can figure out what weight trailer you can handle. That will tell you whether you can realistically haul something you can use with your present truck. Take the kids along as you go "shopping" for the trailer. Listen to what they say, and remember that they will be growing up quickly. If you have a boy and a girl they will eventually need their own private spaces.

Michaelv · RV-Dreams Community Member

Second Chance wrote:
Mike,
Welcome to the forum! As others have said, Terry gives very good advice. As an owner of a Sierra 2500HD with the Duramax/Allison drivetrain, I thought I'd throw in my to cents worth (which may not be worth even that...).
Your truck will "pull" anything you put behind it - even up to the GCVWR on the door sticker. With a 3/4 ton truck, however - as Terry stated - towing fifths wheels, you will hit the max rating on the rear axle of the truck before you exceed the other ratings of the truck. My advice (which I actually follow/followed myself) is to load up the truck which everything you will have in it to hit the road: full fuel, anything carried in the cab or front of the bed, all add-on accessories, and (especially), your fifth wheel hitch - some of which can exceed 250 lbs. Then you and whomever else will be in the truck with you head on over to the nearest CAT scales and weigh in. Position the truck on the scales so you get separate front (steer) and rear (drive) axle weights. When you get home, grab your favorite hot or cold beverage, sit down, and subtract the rear (drive) axle actual weight from the scales from the GVWRR (gross vehicle weight rating - rear) on your door frame sticker. This is the margin you have left over for pin weight on the fifth wheel. Don't believe the 4,175 max pin weight in the Duramax owners' manual.
Some old-timers may tell you to keep everything 80% or less of the trucks ratings. The way trucks are rated has changed over the years and it's safer on late-model trucks to tow rigs that are closer to your maximum capacities. However, you really don't want to exceed the rear axle ratings and NEVER exceed the load capacity of the tires. You'll find that the rear axle and tires will max out long before you reach the 24,500 lbs. GCVWR for your truck. For example: my truck seems to have about the same weight ratings as yours (just slightly higher on the rear axle). I chose an Andersen Ultimate hitch system as it's about 150 - 200 lbs. lighter than most conventional fifth wheel hitches. Our trailer GVWR is 13,990 with a stated (dry) pin weight of a little over 2,000 lbs. Loaded up for full-timing, we are a little over 12,400 lbs. on the trailer and the load increased the pin weight to right at 3,000 lbs. Per the CAT scales, I'm 20 lbs. under the max rating for the rear axle of the truck - but still 2,000 lbs. under the GCVWR.
My first flight instructor was fond of telling me that, "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots; there are no old, bold pilots." You may encounter a certain crowd (usually on another RV forum that shall remain unnamed) that will tell you they exceed the max ratings of the tow vehicle by hundreds of pounds and have never had a problem. My response to that is, "Yet..." Try explaining what happened to an insurance provider if a tire blows and the rig is totaled because the rear axle/tire capacity was exceeded by hundreds of pounds.
Happy (and safe) travels!
Rob

Hey Rob,

Thanks for the response. I see you have a 2500 sierra as well and you pull a trailer with a pin weight of roughly 2000 lbs. If i were to find a similar fifth wheel pin weight i imagine i would be fine with all the numbers you discussed above?

Mike

Second Chance · RV-Dreams Family Member

Michaelv wrote:
Second Chance wrote:
Mike,
Welcome to the forum! As others have said, Terry gives very good advice. As an owner of a Sierra 2500HD with the Duramax/Allison drivetrain, I thought I'd throw in my to cents worth (which may not be worth even that...).
[Snip]
Rob
Hey Rob,

Thanks for the response. I see you have a 2500 sierra as well and you pull a trailer with a pin weight of roughly 2000 lbs. If i were to find a similar fifth wheel pin weight i imagine i would be fine with all the numbers you discussed above?

Mike

Mike,

The dry pin weight of our fifth wheel is listed at 2,090 lbs. Loaded for the road, the pin weight is about 3,000 lbs - which is why we're considering moving up to a 1 ton DRW next month. You can't trust any of the manufacturer's published dry weights as they don't include things like front air conditioners or any dealer-installed options. Forget dry weights and figure on 20 - 25% of the gross weight rating of the trailer for a pin weight (we are at 21.5% of the trailer's GVWR for the pin weight). If we thought we could have full-timed with the 303's bedroom, bathroom and closet, it would have been a much better match for our truck. Since we are full-timers and really like our floor plan in the 337, our best option is to upgrade the truck.

Rob

Michaelv · RV-Dreams Community Member

Second Chance wrote:
Michaelv wrote:
Second Chance wrote:
Mike,
Welcome to the forum! As others have said, Terry gives very good advice. As an owner of a Sierra 2500HD with the Duramax/Allison drivetrain, I thought I'd throw in my to cents worth (which may not be worth even that...).
[Snip]
Rob
Hey Rob,

Thanks for the response. I see you have a 2500 sierra as well and you pull a trailer with a pin weight of roughly 2000 lbs. If i were to find a similar fifth wheel pin weight i imagine i would be fine with all the numbers you discussed above?

Mike

Mike,
The dry pin weight of our fifth wheel is listed at 2,090 lbs. Loaded for the road, the pin weight is about 3,000 lbs - which is why we're considering moving up to a 1 ton DRW next month. You can't trust any of the manufacturer's published dry weights as they don't include things like front air conditioners or any dealer-installed options. Forget dry weights and figure on 20 - 25% of the gross weight rating of the trailer for a pin weight (we are at 21.5% of the trailer's GVWR for the pin weight). If we thought we could have full-timed with the 303's bedroom, bathroom and closet, it would have been a much better match for our truck. Since we are full-timers and really like our floor plan in the 337, our best option is to upgrade the truck.
Rob

Thanks for the quick response Rob.

So assuming i stay with my 2500 and don't move to a 1 ton i should shoot for around a 1500-1600 lb pin weight to stay in the safer range?

Mike

Second Chance · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mike,

Look for a PM from me shortly.

Rob

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

Pin weight will be 20-25% of GROSS weight. If, after getting the real weights on the axles of your truck and comparing them to the axle limits, you find that you can handle 1500 pounds of pin weight, you know that you can safely handle a trailer of 6000 to 7500 pounds GROSS weight. In order to keep your pin weight where it needs to be you may have to make some compromises in loading the trailer. You may need to travel with empty tanks and you may need to load some heavier items over the axles, even if that isn't where you want them for regular living. Once you are set up at camp you can (mostly) forget about the weight ratings. Obviously, the tires and suspension are still supporting most of the weight of the trailer (unless you have something like a Level-Up or Big Foot) so don't get too carried away.