News Flash-Thor and Heartland Acquire Cruiser RV and DRV - RV-Dreams Community Forum

jayc · RV-Dreams Family Member

News Flash-Thor and Heartland Acquire Cruiser RV and DRV

cherylbrv · RV-Dreams Family Member

What does this mean for us DRV owners?

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

DRV, being a relatively low volume mfr, I suspect will have a higher likelyhood of disappearing as Thor concentrates on higher volume markets or expanding its existing lines.

JMHO, Brian

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

cherylbrv wrote:
What does this mean for us DRV owners?

In simple language it means that the DRV brand is going to be cheapened..

It's interesting though that Thor has Redwood that which is supposed to be the successor of the Cameo and Carriage names, but they bought DRV...

PD CFK · RV-Dreams Family Member

Uh...Oh!

De ja vu, all over again. Same thing they did to Carriage. Pat K

NWescapee · RV-Dreams Family Member

So glad we are not shopping for an RV and already have our DRV.

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

Alie and Jims Carrilite wrote:
cherylbrv wrote:
What does this mean for us DRV owners?
In simple language it means that the DRV brand is going to be cheapened..

Pretty sure it already was.. I think quality suffered recently in place of Higher volume to impress potential buyers.. it worked.. Thor bit..

-- Edited by The Junkman on Monday 5th of January 2015 09:22:53 PM

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

With the ever changing times in this tough economy people should be happy that at least they were bought and aquired by another company. Not just folded, closed doors and DONE.

nomorsno · RV-Dreams Family Member

Didn't Evergreen/Lifestylyle take over carriage and Cameo? Agree with TKing at least they aren't in the wind.

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

nomorsno wrote:
Didn't Evergreen/Lifestylyle take over carriage and Cameo? Agree with TKing at least they aren't in the wind.

Redwood/ Thor bought the Carriage name and trademark, but most of the engineers and employees went to Evergreen to start the Lifestyle line.

Lifestyle is more of the direct descendent of Carriage than Redwood.

The new Redwood "Cameo" Line is just a name on another cheap model. I-beam frame, no rear fiberglass cap, no real wood interiors etc. Although they left the price alone...

Lifestyle on the other hand builds the double box frame in house, and has the full wall slide design that continues the Carriage design elements.

We'll know the intentions of Thor when the DRV is introduced with the "New and Improved I-Beam frame by Lippert" bleh Just kidding...... hopefully

-- Edited by Alie and Jims Carrilite on Tuesday 6th of January 2015 08:38:32 AM

MarkS · RV-Dreams Family Member

If we are gonna talk bad about Limpwart frames and business practices I wanna play!!!!!!!

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Did Thor make them (DRV) an offer they couldn't refuse? One has to think, DRV management/owners caved to whatever rationale Thor used to get them to commit reputational suicide (relatively speaking). Or was it all about the money? Time will tell, if Thor retains the best of what DRV was/is known for, or was that all hype too? I will admit the only DRV we've looked at was certainly noticeably higher quality than anything we had looked at so far. At least for us, we'll have the luxury of a few years to sit back and watch the action unfold, for better or worse.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

I guess I'm just the optimist here, but I don't really see a problem. DRV will be under the Heartland "name," and I don't recall anyone saying that Heartland is going down in quality. Then again, I've not been on Heartland forums, so I would never say never.

Keep in mind that DRV Suites is second primarily to the true custom builders like Forks RV, New Horizon, and Spacecraft. It may very well be that Thor decided that they wanted/needed a brand that "bridges the gap" between their current lines and the custom builds. They have also kept on all the DRV management, so that says something there as well. In a memo I saw from DRV, even the management at DRV seems positive.

Granted, only time will tell. Jo and I have known Alicia and Slade at Rolling Retreats in Oklahoma for several years, and they have become good friends of ours. Rolling Retreats is a small mom and pop dealership that primarily sells only DRV Suites products. In fact, they are probably close to, if not the top, selling DRV dealership in the country, and they are definitely the top selling of the Elite Suites models, the highest quality model of DRV. I will be contacting them soon to ask them about what they think of the acquisition. If anyone knows among the dealerships, I think it would be them. They have even been approached by Forks RV to be their exclusive Forks dealership.

Terry

cheryls-other-half · RV-Dreams Family Member

FWIW, I read the actual press release, and came away with the following.

[before I get started, need to emphasize that I usually see the BIG picture when looking at things.

The press release had a section where the Heartland/Thor team mentioned that one of the deciding factors was that

(believe it or not!!!) EMPHASIS added by me!

Quote... (and snip...)...integrated transactions which included the purchase of equity interests, as well as the purchase of certain real estate used in the ongoing operations of the business. The total purchase price, paid in cash, is approximately $47.4 million

Whew, that's it? 47M?? cheap!

...snip... Cruiser RV has a long history of building light-weight travel trailers that appeal to a broad base of RV consumers, while DRV brings a strong presence in the high-end fifth wheel market...SNIP...as well as luxury fifth wheels, where we previously had a more limited presence.

...snip...Cruiser RV and DRV, will maintain their current production facilities, work force and management team after the acquisition.. (nothing we didn't know here...)

...snip... (and now the REAL (I think) reason they did this (the piece de la resistance)

...snip... "We are excited by the opportunities...snip...welcome Cruiser RV and DRV to Heartland

...snip......"With their production base in Howe and LaGrange, about 35 miles from Elkhart, ...snip...

DRV have a more stable workforce {EMPHASIZE next sentence!!}

...snip...----> that is less affected by the recent tight labor conditions we've seen in Elkhart.

In addition, as we look to grow our combined business over the long-term,

{EMPHASIZE} we will have ample space to expand operations in Howe as demand increases, a luxury unavailable to Heartland at its existing production complex."

..mitch sez:

Poof.

THEY liked

a) DRV was less then 35 miles (1/2 hr) from THOR

b) DRV has LOTS of LAND for future expansion

c) the labor market outside of Elkhart (RV central) is LESS EXPENSIVE then they're now paying

How's THAT interpretation?

SEEMS to me that (current management/team) and these reasons will NOT affect anything in a day-to-day manner!

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mitch, my take on the 47mil., it may not be that cheap. 135 mil in sales between the two of them, how much net? The real value appears to be the facilities. If you were Thor, looking to expand existing production to meet demand, what better way to do that than buy ready made production line with room to expand. I would not be surprised to see DRV or CRV around for too much longer, maybe 3 or 4 years as they integrate the production model. Thor may be able to bring economy of scale to DRV, but I think it more likely DRV will be phased out and the Redwood line expanded. Too many niches and brand lines takes away from profits unless you can drive up pricing... in this new economy, that could be a challenge.

Alas, we shall see how it unfolds. The market hates a void, so maybe somebody will step in to fill the demand that DRV currently provides if it does, in fact, vanish.

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

Well either way you flip 'em.................They're still just a "Camper", "Travel Trailer", "RV" with different paint and decals. You can buy some with better upgrades and components and some with cheaper "Entry Level"...............

jayc · RV-Dreams Family Member

I think the purchase of DRV is just another way for Thor to make some more money. They buy up companies that are making a profit, with proven track records and a good customer base. Just look at Thor's financial report and you will see good dividends paid out to their stockholders. Why would they buy a company just to eliminate something that's making money. And it gives them another price point in their lineup.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

I just looked at Thor's website, and they also own Airstream. Has Airstream's quality dropped?

None of us can predict what is going to happen because we aren't in the "chain" of decision makers at Thor. So, we'll just have to wait and see what occurs in the future. I talked with Alicia at Rolling Retreats, and she told me that they (as dealers) were assured that there wouldn't be any issues with quality. Alicia and Slade are a mom and pop dealership, and DRV Suites is the only thing they sell as new, although it is in the works that they will become the sole and exclusive dealership for Forks RV (Continental Coach.) I just have to think that they have a pretty good idea of what's likely to happen.

Terry

Bobc · RV-Dreams Family Member

I am hoping the Quality gets better as from everything i see, it have gone down a lot in the last 2 years.

DRV is on my short list units for us when we hope to purchase this summer ( Hopefully the house we sell)

DRV was the bridge between New Horizon, Forke and then all the rest

DRV was our Plan B if we don't get what we want for our house.

IMO there is a big drop off after DRV even with there Quality issues of late.

Figures are crossed that they can improve under Thor management.
as they were a great choice a couple years ago before they stopped worrying about the details.

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bobc wrote:
I am hoping the Quality gets better as from everything i see, it have gone down a lot in the last 2 years.

DRV is on my short list units for us when we hope to purchase this summer ( Hopefully the house we sell)

DRV was the bridge between New Horizon, Forke and then all the rest

DRV was our Plan B if we don't get what we want for our house.

IMO there is a big drop off after DRV even with there Quality issues of late.

Figures are crossed that they can improve under Thor management.
as they were a great choice a couple years ago before they stopped worrying about the details.

Look into the Excel line. While they have a different type of build, wood vs aluminum, they are a high quality product with a hands-on president, great service, and a hands customer approach. Plus they have a loyal following like no other brand!

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Terry and Jo wrote:
I just looked at Thor's website, and they also own Airstream. Has Airstream's quality dropped?
None of us can predict what is going to happen because we aren't in the "chain" of decision makers at Thor. So, we'll just have to wait and see what occurs in the future. I talked with Alicia at Rolling Retreats, and she told me that they (as dealers) were assured that there wouldn't be any issues with quality. Alicia and Slade are a mom and pop dealership, and DRV Suites is the only thing they sell as new, although it is in the works that they will become the sole and exclusive dealership for Forks RV (Continental Coach.) I just have to think that they have a pretty good idea of what's likely to happen.
Terry

Let me start by saying I don’t have a dog in this fight so these are only our perspectives:

As a longtime Airstream owner, yes, most certainly. Airstream’s quality has dropped. Most people who really know Airstreams will tell you to purchase a used one and do a refurbishment as necessary if you know how to get it done as far as a cost vs. quality result is the criteria. Most of the issues are fit and finish, QC construction issues, as well as some design items which some consider to be “strange.” Another discussion.

Items such as AC units and refers, etc., which are common to the industry - they are what they are in all rigs. But, in general as pertains to the part that Airstream is specifically responsible for, yes, the quality has gone down; as have many brands when “purchased.”

Thor is a holding company and they are in the business to make money and that means “economy of scale and efficiency.” It’s just a business and the less competition you have and the larger the breath of your overall product offerings (price points) the lower your standards can be to some extent– especially if you virtually “own” a large portion of the industry. Not saying it will or will not be this way – I’m saying it can be and many times is as we have seen over many years when companies are purchased and then have to "pay for themselves."

Thor also purchased KZ last year and that gave them a huge production facility in Shipshewana, just about half-way between Elkhart and Howe on US-20. You could put the DRV plant in the corner of KZ’s plant several times over. So Thor, as a holding company, has huge production capabilities and will have more if / when, they expand the Howe property. It is good to remember that building RV’s in the Elkhart area is just a process – everyone is related in some way - and the “quality” as such is mostly determined by the price point – but not always. They could start building “DRV’s,” or anything else in Shipshewana at the KZ plant in two or three months if they needed to. Just saying – they are all factory lines with very little actually unique in that respect. We’ve been there.

BTW, we go to the Tampa show every year and see that large display of trailers and we can spot the concerns quickly. After looking at them and owing since the mid-1970’s it isn’t that hard to spot.

Our opinion and that includes Linda’s

Again, just our perspective FWIW

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Alie and Jims Carrilite wrote:
Bobc wrote:
I am hoping the Quality gets better as from everything i see, it have gone down a lot in the last 2 years.

DRV is on my short list units for us when we hope to purchase this summer ( Hopefully the house we sell)

DRV was the bridge between New Horizon, Forke and then all the rest

DRV was our Plan B if we don't get what we want for our house.

IMO there is a big drop off after DRV even with there Quality issues of late.

Figures are crossed that they can improve under Thor management.
as they were a great choice a couple years ago before they stopped worrying about the details.
Look into the Excel line. While they have a different type of build, wood vs aluminum, they are a high quality product with a hands-on president, great service, and a hands customer approach. Plus they have a loyal following like no other brand!

Very true in all regards. Very hands on President. Excel also builds their own frames and they’re very nice.

We’ve been through that plant and were favorably impressed. The only limitation for us was they didn’t want to make many changes; about the same as DRV would make, as we were looking for a new rig. So we were pleased with the construction as such at the price point, but couldn’t get the layout and extras we wanted. But it was a well-built rig in our view; they just use wood and that has pros and cons, in our view.

They have a new, very nice repair facility that was constructed fairly recently and they repair all brands as you might expect. Not a lot in the town of Smith Center, KS, but very nice people.

Bobc · RV-Dreams Family Member

Exel was on our list at one time, but got deleted for many reasons, starting with limited floor plans and size.

IMO they did not even come close to the DRV.

my first choice now is New Horizon, However what we want is over our budget and was why DRV was was in our game plan, how i just don't know,.

Back to New Horizon at the top of my list, but we still have a little time to find something in the middle if need be.

may even go back and start looking at MH again, looks like some of the new units are designing the inside a little more like the 5th wheels

the price of a NH Trailer and the truck to pull it are now in the same ball park as a nice MH or even a little less

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bob, why would you not consider a nice later model used New Horizons. There are several on the market - most of them I'm familiar with.

Bobc · RV-Dreams Family Member

We will see what is available when I have cash in hand. We want to be completely debt fee when we start.

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

A lightly used NH that isn't too heavy will be in our short list if we can find one when our time comes. Can't get the DW to get onboard with the HDT as a TV.... but we have time for a change of heart smile if "management" determines that we need it. Not stressing about our choices or potential loss of one of our current top picks.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

biggaRView wrote:
A lightly used NH that isn't too heavy will be in our short list if we can find one when our time comes. Can't get the DW to get onboard with the HDT as a TV.... but we have time for a change of heart if "management" determines that we need it. Not stressing about our choices or potential loss of one of our current top picks.

Brian:

There are some relatively light NH’s out there and the new “super pickups,’ as Jack has named them, are fully up to specification to tow them safely and with great comfort. No HDT required.

The one nice thing about a gently used rig is that most of the new rig bugs should have been addressed – and all new rigs have bugs. Be sure and check with Jack when time comes closer. They are out there and I for one would have no hesitation about buying a used NH. Remember, NH will make modifications to any trailer if required. Just food for thought.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

A new Dodge 5500 will tow "most" New Horizons. The 5500 is the best of the "super pickups" at the MOMENT. In that category I include the F450, F550 and the Dodge 5500. The Dodge may or may not be the best choice, considering price, required modifications/additions, etc. There are many factors to consider, and it is all about becoming EDUCATED and only THEN make the the tradeoffs that work for you. Because no matter what you do, there are going to be compromises in any direction you take.

-- Edited by Jack Mayer on Friday 9th of January 2015 08:48:27 AM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Indeed, a new, properly up-fitted RAM500HD will cost more than a used, properly up-fitted HDT. If you OK with an HDT it is a better financial choice, IMO, and is more capable in most regards. But you don’t have to have an HDT any longer with NH rigs – and for me – that is a nice option to have because the “super pickup” is, in our opinion, a better touring (i.e. no-towing) vehicle for those of us who don’t want to have a second vehicle. It's better because it rides better than an unloaded HDT even with air seats. Has nothing to do with parking it as such. They are almost exactly the same size as to length and width. Jack and I have this on-going discussion all the time. LOL All good fun – that’s why there are choices. Become educated - then select based on what meets your needs. Totally agree.