TRAILERKING wrote:

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Vagabond wrote:

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......... "Hush now fluffy, who's a good boy?" 2 hours later, back to square one. I absolutely detest involving Rangers, or park staff. It just seems it should be common courtesy. Just as I keep my stereo volume down, so you can't hear it ten feet from my rig. Expecting people to keep their animals quiet and controlled, or leave them at home does not seem unreasonable to me.

 

Thoughts?

Regards, Kyle

 

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 Sounds fair to me.............

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 We will try to get a site next door to you :)

Kyle

Junkman, I agree on the close proximity of others causing strife, pretty much everywhere. I sense it all around me, in my sticks, bricks, and phony "keep ahead of the Jones's" neighborhood. It looks to me like everyone is fed up, and teetering on the brink...Of something. That's for another thread, on another forum. I plan to rock the boat as little as possible, while exploring the country, but I am also an up front kind of guy. Not afraid of confrontation, but I really, really hate it. Life is too short!
Russ, I get that angle also. As an amateur astronomer, light pollution drives me nuts. I do, however, expect, and accept, a certain level of "Productive nuisance", if you will. Lights on, for the safety of those using the facility. I don't want someone falling down the stairs of their coach, just so I can catch a better glimpse of a galaxy. I don't begrudge someone running an AC unit, or generator, if they need it.
Letting rover bark in his pen, while they go out for a gourmet dinner in town, get my blood boiling. Letting little johnny run around at 10pm, making "Joyful noise", is on my major disrespect list, also.
Just trying to get a feel for how prevalent this is, in those that have been FT for awhile. Also looking for any unique ideas on how to deal with it. (Legal, of course:))
Regards, Kyle

roof top sniper method!!!!!........

Lindy, that is funny.

We've been an inadvertent offender and offended. We've learned - the hard way - if we leave our pup in our 5er without the TV on, windows closed, and leave her alone she will bark. We came back after a lunch out to our state park site to find a note on our door. We were VERY apologetic and upset with ourselves but the host was correct to leave that note. We didn't do it again.

While at a very nice private park for a week in Texas a couple with 3 dogs moved in next to us. In that location we both shared a wide yard with picnic tables at either end. They were obviously a higher income couple and the lady was on crutches. They went out every day about the time we were returning. The dogs barked out the open window on our side all evening so we couldn't sit out and enjoy. They seemed like nice people and the next morning I went over and chatted with the man sitting outside mentioning he had quite a handful with his wife and three dogs. He agreed and said she usually walks the dogs. I mentioned they probably weren't aware of it but that their dogs barked the whole time they were gone. I said we'd be happy to help walk the dogs because he was outnumbered and we understood. He said they had bark collars "somewhere" but it has never happened before. I wondered about the collars but didn't say anything. Again stated we'd be happy to help. Also said we'd learned to leave the TV on and windows closed and that helped our dog.

Next day, same thing. So when they returned home I met them at their truck and said we'd had company and couldn't sit out and their dogs barked the whole time thru the window that was only open on our side. Third day same thing. The man became perturbed and the next day before they left he let all three dogs eliminate in our yard and didn't clean up. Jesse actually stepped in it.

We should have called the manager the first day, but like you we didn't want to be complainers and felt we'd handled it they way we would like someone to approach us.

So call the ranger or the manager. It's rude, inconsiderate dog or generator owners that annoy us but they are in the minority. Yesterday a woman parked right next to us brought her dog over to do his business in our yard! At least she cleaned up after it.

Sherry

Our big black dog is a squirrel dance floor ☺️ But we have a few yappy rats in the neighborhood!

lindy wrote:

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Had a dog on the site next to us that barked at anything that moved. We just HAPPENED to have a sonic bark stop unit with us. I went to their side of my unit and acted like I was doing something, placed the Sonic bark stopper on my tires pointed AT their dog. While it didn't stop the barking completely it cut it by about 90%!

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 We have one of these also, I bought it as a preventive for our dogs at our old house.  I have terriers, they tend to be alarm dogs, but I do whatever is necessary to keep their barking under control.  I ended up using the bark stopper on the side of the house as our neighbor had a dog that would bark for hours and they never did a thing to stop it or bring it in the house, even though they were home. 

At our campsites, we generally take the dogs with us if circumstances allow.  If not, the windows are closed, the airconditioner is on or a loud fan, plus the TV is on a normal sound level and the dogs have bark collars on and are in their kennel. We have never had a complaint that the dogs barked while we were gone.  We even had someone say they didn't know we had dogs until they saw us walking them.  

This summer we have had a few "run-ins" with neighbors who let their dogs run around their site and then charge and bark at ours as we take them for a walk or sit outside with them.  My dogs are always on a leash if outside or in their Xpen.  We never leave them outside, they are only out if we are out.  Campground rules are there for a reason and I expect others to follow them same as me or I will say something. 

We have two small dogs who seldom bark, unless we are playing. The last time we took the fiver out a dog did his business sort of between our coach and the neighbors. We pick up after ours and also pick up whatever else is left for us. However, it was pretty obvious that the pile left was not from ours. It was from something much larger. We got blamed for it and that was ok. I'm not going to start something over something so petty. Besides, we didn't speak Spanish. I feel pretty certain that once we are full time I will become much crankier, at least I plan to. I absolutely adore dogs. I'm not near as crazy about humans, especially young ones. I ask a gentleman once what was it that caused him to approach us and strike up a conversation. I told him I was curious. Truth be told, I wanted to know what behavior to change. He said we looked friendly and normal. Maybe I should wear a tutu or dye my hair green or learn to belch the alphabet.

Thanks for the reply, perhaps I should have elaborated. I will certainly contact the manager, or ranger, if needed. I surely won't sit in silence :) Wreck my day, I'll fight back at escalating levels, starting with a polite, reasonable request. I like the no-bark gizmos, and likely will pick up a couple of those to try first. If I have to "Contact the man", I usually leave the scene shortly after. I do not trust people who don't respond to reason. If I've had to go as far as calling in help, or enforcement, they are not someone I want to be around. I would worry about vandalism, and retaliation from them. THAT is something that brings out my inner sociopath. (I usually leash and collar him, it's just a better world, that way)

I only titled the thread about dogs, as an example of bad behavior, that often spirals out of hand, (in my non-rv experience) People tend to get really, really defensive, and unreasonable when you question their pets' behavior. Almost as bad as their kids. I hate to say, I'd rather deal with a party next door. At least I could shmooze my way in and drink their beer, or throw them a sack of Washington's finest, and watch them pass out in 20 minutes :)

Regards, Kyle

I only wish I could say that "The Junkman" is wrong. We were out to the Corp of Engineers campgrounds. We luckily set-up in a really nice area and decided to drive around the other loops. It appeared that some people were living in the back of the loops. Yard dogs, tarps up and really old rundown units. I don't understand the deal there. Over the years, we ran across more than one park with permanent residents set up in the back in rundown trailers and motorhomes that probably had not ran in years. The other issue is who lives just outside the park that is hidden by the trees, bushes and privacy fence as you can have feral cats, junkyard dogs and five-finger discount shoppers that slip into the park. In private parks, management can hesitate to act on your complaints of rule breaking, even if extreme. It is bad when you are there for a season or limited to a certain area because of your job. The RV world for those retired is different than for those that are still working, must work in order to survive. The thing is that is a toss up between RV living and S/B because both have their share of positives and negatives thus our continuing tug to both lifestyles.

We have been on the road 2 years and I'm happy to say we have been very lucky in the parking by barking dogs area. Only a time or two. The last being about a month ago but we were only next to them a few days. I have seen FAR more dogs running off leash than anything else.

Cheryl, no worries. A little humor does us all good.

Soos, Junkman, and SnowGypsy all have good points. Perhaps the whole topic of the thread was a metaphor, for the general degradation of society. As Junkman said "I've never seen it this bad". It really is heartbreaking. In my sticks and bricks world, people are visibly stressed. There is crazy stuff happening all around. A lot of it is financial, and a lot of it, in my opinion, is a total lack of direction, or meaningful goals. Sadly, most of the guys I know around here are living for the next "Big game", the next expensive toy, or just the next weekend, which they often return from looking more haggard then when they left.

A good friend and I were reminiscing over a twelve pack one night last summer. We were trying to figure out if the world had really changed, or if it was just the fact that we are getting a little older, and seeing it in a different light. We both remember listening to our Dads, when we were younger, and our Grandfathers as well, talking about how "Things have gone down hill, a bit" since they were young men. My friend had a question that stopped me in my tracks. He looked at me and asked "What are you proud of America for, TODAY?" "Forget Normandy Beach, forget the Apollo program, and forget all the other great things that belong to another generation, and just answer the question." I hate to admit, I didn't have one. I was speechless.

 I find myself "Pregretting" (My word, feel free to steal it) spending time in groups of people. Movie theaters with noisy people and cell phones, inconsiderate neighbors, and sooo many people feeling like they need to make a "Statement" of some kind.

I remember camping a lot when I was little, all through the 70's and 80's. We stayed in campgrounds all over the western US and southwest Canada. I really can't remember any conflicts at all. Dad had the same expectations I do, for civil behavior from other people, and he believed in setting an example. There were very few dogs camping at all, as I recall, and even the folks having drinks around the fire were quieting down by the time it got dark in the summer. If I got too excited, and got a little loud while running around, I got corrected. "Kyle, knock that off NOW! There are other people here that want peace and quiet!" My parents meant it, and if I wanted to enjoy the rest of trip, there was no doubt I had better tame it down, and fast. If I had to be told twice, I was in deep! I didn't get 20 meaningless threats of a "Time out". I got a firm smack on the butt, or spent the rest of the night in our conversion van. I learned quick, and I don't feel scarred or have PTSD from it. I am grateful to my parents for their leadership.

Hopefully things will get better. All we can do, I suppose, is try to be good stewards of ourselves, and keep our fingers crossed that others follow. Confrontation, and regulation are a symptom of degradation. They weren't as necessary just 30 years ago, in my memory.

Treat your neighbors well!

Regards, Kyle

 

My observation in 14+ years fulltime is that it is about the same during all those years. It is not "getting worse". You will find places that are problems. You will find problems even in high end resorts; from time-to-time. But mostly the problems occur in "weekend" campgrounds - like forest service, or "party" locations. There you will find plenty of "I'll do what I want and I don't care about YOU" people. It has been that way - in SOME places - all the time we have been fulltiming.

Overall, I think society is far more "me, me, me" oriented than it was 20 years ago. An entire generation has been (mainly) raised that way, unfortunately. Not to get too political, but my observation is that it is "mainly" brought about by a twisted "liberal" attitude. This has been infused into our government regulations, and school and life in general. It may not be that "liberal" is the proper term, but I could not come up with anything else (I may need more coffee).

Steve, as far as the dog stuff goes I could not agree more. We have a dog and despite the fact that she is friendly to all she stays on the leash except where appropriate. Meaning dog parks, the campground when closed, or offlead training in a remote area. She "works" in the office and we allow any dog that is well behaved in the office. It is not a problem. BUT, I have seen issues in other campgrounds. I normally carry pepper spray with me when walking away from parks I know (like where we work in the summer). And I've used it before. I've seen some VERY aggressive dogs either loose or out of control. I would not have believed it until it happened to me.

Thank you Barb - that is indeed the word that is appropriate.....permissive.

Thanks, Cheryl :)
HDrider, and Glenn West, those stories give me hope. Perhaps off the beaten path will be our best bet. I really prefer to be in smaller campgrounds, and I don't care one bit about clubhouses, tennis courts, or shuffleboard... Yet :) The kids like that stuff, so we will undoubtedly stay in a few, from time to time. Water, electric, and a place to dump the nasties are all I really want. Oh, and if I can place an order for no mosquitoes, to go, that would be nice too. Those are another one of my favorite peeves to pet.
Barbara, you are right on the pollution! I was sitting at a traffic light behind an old Chevy pickup that was running wayyy to rich. I forgot how it used to be, sitting in Seattle area traffic, growing up. Much, much better now. The only down side is, I could fix the stinky trucks! Now I just open the hood and look helpless, like everyone else.
Jack, I think you hit the nail on the head. Permissive, is definitely the term. A lack of learned accountability, and responsibility is not good for any of us.
Cindi, it sounds like Grandma is doing her job well! :) Too bad about the Pitbull encounter. I reach for my pistol when I see that breed. Zero use for them. I've met a few nice ones, but I no longer gamble, after a friend nearly lost her sight to one that was "People friendly".
Good grief, I am new here, and most of you must be picturing me walking around with my glass half empty. LOL. I just prefer to research negatives first, when I get excited about a new idea. It sounds odd, but it works for me. The positives are fun and easy, everybody likes those! The bad sides of things are too easy for me to mentally skip, and be surprised by later, so I eat my vegetables first.
Regards, Kyle

I don't think anyone implied that America was the problem. The world has changed and not for the better. I think the biggest point to take from the thread is that the world of RVing is just as diverse, complicated and challenging as life in a S/B, different in many ways but you don't suddenly wake up in Nirvana once you leave S/B. We were first introduced to the lifestyle in AZ in 1990 and since we were RVers and full-timers both, we have experienced it. It is a toss up when you start weighing in on the positives and negatives and it is wise to do that. Ignorance is bliss is no way to make a lifestyle change. "I didn't realize".......................realize before you get to those words and be prepared in your own mind the strategies you'll be using. Imagine the worse case scenario, work through it in your head and then you are ready.

"If any of you ever get the chance, go check out the Oklahoma City National Memorial. Sadly, even after all this time, I could never "make" myself go to see it."
Diane and I felt the same way. We visited the outside, then went off for lunch and could not face coming back to visit the inside. We lived in Eastern Washington during the militia and white supremacist times, which spilled out of the panhandle of Idaho into Washington. We had dealt with those people and found them uncomfortable, so the memorial showed us our discomfort was justified. The USA is a great place, but like everywhere else it has bad people. We can't let those bad people run our lives. I find bad people in all political parties and also wrapping themselves in various religions. They are not representative of everyone, but like to act like they are.

Back to the main subject. Our biggest problem with dogs is the ones that are off leash and the owners who want it that way. We take a cat out on a leash, and loose dogs are a big problem. Barking dogs are annoying, loose ones are dangerous. Owners of loose ones might be more dangerous.

We carry a stun gun when we walk.  There are several different types anywhere from the first I got, a "knuckle blaster" that looks like brass knuckles but is black rubber with the electronics built into the rubber, easy to carry about $50.00 and I have a stun baton about 12 inches long or so with pointy sharp metal spikes and 4 "hot" spots and a flashlight on it.  They even have stun canes which I thought were really cool since they look less like anything out of the usual.  They are legal in most places.  Cabelas and online suppliers carry a variety and the 4 we have are all "Zap".  One issue that is hard to deal with are the kids that rush the dogs when we walk and I can't exactly Zap them.  I tell them that the dogs could bite and, well, they could since they are dogs.  I don't mind older people petting the dogs but the kids are too much for our senior dogs.  

Stun gun means you have to get up close and personal.........I prefer distance......not to many dogs can be outrun by a man with a cane......been there, done that and lost!!!!....of course been upwind of the pepper spray too!!!.....Im not sure whether the bite or the sting was worse!!!!

Snowgypsy, I agree there is not one answer. You need a continuum of force. And I have it.

Before considering any firearm for defense against animals (or humans), one should know the laws for the state where one is located or planning to travel.  In some states, "deadly force" can only be used in certain circumstances.  One really needs to know those circumstances.  Also, some areas are listed as areas where carrying a weapon is not allowed.

Camping behind bars isn't likely to be very much fun.

Terry

As a bicyclist I keep pepper spray handy. But wasp spray would be better because it sprays 20+ feet, can be aimed, and won't blow back in your face. Effective. Only real problem is the big can. In the past I've found a water bottle squirt can also repel an aggressive canine.

-- Edited by Trikester on Friday 12th of September 2014 11:05:14 AM

Bottom line would be that ideas here can be introduced on ways to deal with people/dog issues and further research can be done before making the best choice for one's individual circumstances. I think everyone needs to understand what will be legal and/or needed according to the way they will live the RV lifestyle and make their own personal choices. Look at options, do research on the laws regarding your possible choices and then take on the responsibility for your choice(s). If one doesn't like the laws regarding their choice(s), the best bet is to work diligently to change those laws and that isn't done on a forum.

This thread kind of hits lots of topics so after reading it all here's my thoughts.

1. I love this country and still feel it is the best country in the world. Yes things have changed since 20 years ago but not all for the worst. Women have more opportunities, the internet has provided access to information we never had 20 years ago, and most people I know are still trying to live a good life and positively impact those around them.

2. I love dogs and agree the problem is with the owners not the dogs. I have escalated to the camp hosts once but agree this could lead to more problems. But because you can't always pick up and move I am going to have to figure out how to have those conversations in a productive way, because I refuse to continue to be stuck inside my RV to deal with the noise pollution. Last night the folks across the way had their music going really loud and again I was driven indoors. Haven't figured out the right way to address this but ignoring it isn't really working.

3. Thankfully I have not had to deal with aggressive animals of any kind ...yet...but it's rattling around in my brain. I am leaning towards a pellet gun but there are pros and cons to each potential solution so for now I keep my distance. Not a great solution but for right now the best I have come up with.

4. Finally, I have recognized that although I am camping as a lifestyle most people are not. They are using camping as a means of relaxing from their normal rule bound lives and so they aren't necessarily their best selves. Not that different than people who are totally nice in person being complete asses on the internet. Their is an anonymity in weekend camping that allows people to behave in ways they wouldn't if they knew they would have to see you . I have to say 5 days a week staying in one place has been absolutely great. It's mainly only on the weekends we have dealt with these issues. So maybe that is the price we have to pay...five great days for somewhat annoying weekends. We will see