It's quite an adventure, isn't it? We are also in the planning and research phase and We also did not want to have an HDT for towing and that's ok because we doubt we can afford the fifth wheel that would require one.

I have been looking at fifth wheels obsessively and I have been noticing that the manufacturers dry weights and CCC as posted on manufacturers websites can be deceptive as it doesn't include any options that an actual unit is likely to have. I learned that by seeing actual units we like listed for sale with pictures of the sticker stating actual weight before leaving the factory and it is in many cases putting the trailer in a CCC category that we will have to rule out even though the manufacturers specs show it has an acceptable CCC.

We did enough research before we actually bought the truck last week to know what would work for our needs.
All this to say, we have determined that each individual situation has to be looked at and figured on its own but we have seen more rigs out there that we CAN tow than can't!

Jane and Frank, at this point focus on the Gross Weight of the coach. Pretty much everything else revolves around that. Pin weight is a percentage of GW, about 20% if I remember correctly. That is the weight of the coach that the truck actually carries.

Gross Combined Weight is the combined weight of the truck, people in the truck, fuel, wheel chocks, tools, pets, anything else that is in the truck plus the weight of the trailer. Use the gross weight of the trailer for this calculation. For example, if the truck has a gross combined weight rating of 24,000 pounds and with fuel, people, etc. weighs 9,000 pounds, then it can haul 15,000 pounds. That is the gross weight rating of the trailer.

You can see how this will work out. If you want to stick with an F350 dually, for example, as the largest truck you will consider, then go to the Ford dealer and get the brochure. If you are going to look at a used truck you can go find a few and get the weight ratings and use them as a guide. Generally, the newer the truck the greater the GCWR.

You will need to also pay attention to the axle weight rating. That is the maximum that can be on that axle. The truck already has some weight on the axle, just sitting there, and when you get into the truck some of your weight goes on each axle. Best advice is to actually weigh the truck with everyone and everything in it. Get the total weight and weights on each axle. Subtract the actual rear axle weight from the rear axle weight rating and that will tell you the maximum pin weight you can handle.

As far as a safety margin, that's up to you. Some people are willing to run right at the limits (or even a bit over), while others want some margin for safety. I've heard of having a 10% safety margin, which means that a GCWR of 24,000 pounds is treated as 21,600 or so.

Don't let a sales person tell you that a truck can tow anything you want - unless you are looking at a semi. Also don't let the sales person quote only the empty weight - use the gross weight. Nothing bad will happen if the truck you pick can handle a heavier trailer than what you pick, but if the truck is too small you are asking for trouble.

The trailer weights that are most important are its GVWR and GAWR. A lot of trailer manufacturers will print all of the other weights on the spec sheets and in the individual trailer brochures. The dry/curb weight is of little use to an owner as none will leave the factory at that weight.

It’s important to remember to check your trailer’s certification label. The trailer’s specs may list the axles as being 7000# but most trailers with those axles will have them derated by the trailer builder to something less than 7000#. They do that to build the trailer to a target GVWR. It also allows them to use tires with less load capacity than 7000# axles would require.

Of most importance for the new trailer owner wanting to get the right truck is the trailer’s hitch weight. A rule of thumb is somewhere between 15-22% of the weight of a loaded fiver will be riding in your truck bed. We keep our hitch weight very close to 18%. We have found, after many miles of RVing with our rig that that’s our best balance. Our washer combo is on the main floor level just forward of the axles and we do not have a second A/C in the forward bedroom. We upgraded to a single 15K A/C. We weighed our rig many times to learn just where to store things for a good axle balance.

We go to a lot of RV shows and I take all sorts of pictures. In the following link is a picture of a trailer with a GVWR of 15600#. It also has the cargo information. When shopping for fivers you can take pictures like that and work some “what if” figures.

www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php

Once you get a rig and load it up for a road trip you should take it to some scales and get it weighed. Here is a reference to use. Read it carefully, it has some very good information about tire pressures.

www.trucktires.com/bridgestone/us_eng/press/zip/WeighForm.pdf.


Here is how our rig weighs out.

Trailer GVWR 14100#.
GAWR (2) 6000#
Truck GVWR 11500#
Truck GCWR 23000#

Loaded trailer 13900#
Hitch weight 2500#.
11400# on the axles

Truck loaded 8800# - with hitch weight 11300# - total GCWR 22700#

Those figures were what it weighed just before our last cross country trip.

FastEagle

-- Edited by FastEagle on Thursday 4th of September 2014 09:25:53 PM

We kind of got lucky. 

We got a package deal on a pre-owned DRV, as well as it's tow buddy, a Ford F550 (dually) with Custom body.

It's awesome, drives like a dream, (considering I drove a E100 van and then mini-vans for 30 years).

The only thing I don't like about it is its 105 gallon (added) fuel tanks that eat my wallet when I fill with Diesel.

 

Other then than, I get tons of looks when driving them together, or even just the F550 by itself.

And I am a Field Engineer, and so every one of the compartments on the side of the truck has my job tools!

But I totally agree, very happy that my Bull (F550) can pull the CoW (Castle on Wheels-aka the DRV) with power to spare.

 

(another link)

I now cringe when I see big rigs being pulled by undersized trucks.

-- Edited by cheryls-other-half on Thursday 4th of September 2014 10:26:32 PM

-- Edited by cheryls-other-half on Thursday 4th of September 2014 10:27:22 PM

I'm sure there will be more than a few members of this forum at Hershey. Perhaps some of them will arrange to meet you there and help interpret what you find. We can't go (haven't sold the place yet) but it is on our list of things to do someday.

Buy a RAM dually with 4.10's and it will pull up to 24k.. no issue..

Just ran 10 hours with a drv Lexington .. about 20k.. Didn't even know it was there.. Then went site seeing in a small town with the truck

ran 65-70 mph .. SAFELY..

Awesome truck..

No need for a MDT or HDT these days.. wake up and smell the roses..Folks..

Some will tell you to buy a monster truck. Don't listen to the hype.. Ask the rv dealer what is showing up and pulling away with the big heavy rv's... RAM.

-- Edited by The Junkman on Friday 5th of September 2014 09:08:58 PM

Glenn West wrote:

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Some of us don't like duallys for daily drives. The HDT with a Smart loaded on it towing our home is much preferred. The HDT gets better fuel mileage and is more comfortable. hey and if your camper brakes fail no problem. The hdt will stop it fine. Just try that with a LDT. I am impressed with the raw power of these new trucks but not much fun towing that weight. Glad to hear you have left "murphy's law" behind.

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 So you'd rather drive smart cars around town? Really? lol .. That's just excuses.. Noone WANTS to drive a smart car.. they are forced to.

I could care less for milege.. I don't even look at the cost of diesel when I fill up. A penny here.. a mile here.. isn't making much difference in my budget.

 

I ran the ram with no brakes on the trailer for the first few miles.. needed to set the controller.. Tranny and exhaust brake stopped it just fine..

you really only need the brakes when you get a stop ign or red light.. other wise, I didn't use them at all.

 

I don't care what people do.. or what they use , really. Just stating the facts..

There IS no need for a mdt or hdt.. That's a fact. However, there is always free will and choice. If you want to run a tractor.. have at it.

So far, Even with the murphy law stuff, I'm pretty happy with my "choice" .

 

Steve

The Junkman wrote:

---

Glenn West wrote:

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Some of us don't like duallys for daily drives. The HDT with a Smart loaded on it towing our home is much preferred. The HDT gets better fuel mileage and is more comfortable. hey and if your camper brakes fail no problem. The hdt will stop it fine. Just try that with a LDT. I am impressed with the raw power of these new trucks but not much fun towing that weight. Glad to hear you have left "murphy's law" behind.

---

 So you'd rather drive smart cars around town? Really? lol .. That's just excuses.. Noone WANTS to drive a smart car.. they are forced to.

I could care less for milege.. I don't even look at the cost of diesel when I fill up. A penny here.. a mile here.. isn't making much difference in my budget.

 

I ran the ram with no brakes on the trailer for the first few miles.. needed to set the controller.. Tranny and exhaust brake stopped it just fine..

you really only need the brakes when you get a stop ign or red light.. other wise, I didn't use them at all.

 

I don't care what people do.. or what they use , really. Just stating the facts..

There IS no need for a mdt or hdt.. That's a fact. However, there is always free will and choice. If you want to run a tractor.. have at it.

So far, Even with the murphy law stuff, I'm pretty happy with my "choice" .

 

Steve

---

We have and absolutely LOVE our Smart Car, we are fortunate enough to be able to have whatever setup we would like and our  Dream setup was a Truck Conversion Class 8 carrying a Smart Car in the garage...My wife and I are both above average in HT, Smarty is roomy, safe, and a blast to drive....If you check out some of the Smart Car Forums you will find a very enthusiastic group of Happy Smart Car owners....Lastly please keep this thread on track and CORDIAL, THERE ARE VERY FEW CORRECT ways to do this thing, its fine to disagree but there is no place here for disrespecting others .....Thanks, Gene...

You are the one that stated no one needed an hdt. There was no need for one. I simply stated a dually isn't the preferred means of towing. Some prefer the HDT and Smart. Some haul a Jeep on there also. I'm done now. Just wanted to set record straight.

Let's keep things civil and back on topic, or I'll start deleting posts.

In reality, it is best to look at the numbers and determine what is the best vehicle for towing.  With each person, that determination can vary as to what one is comfortable in when towing.

In many cases, emergency stops can help influence those determinations.  Keeping one's truck within weight guidelines is important.

Terry

biggaRView wrote:

---

The Junkman wrote:

---

.

....There IS no need for a mdt or hdt.. That's a fact......

 

---

 Sorry, I have to partially disagree. It sounds like somebody has rubbed you the wrong way. Nobody has stated categorically that you need to use a MDT or HDT to tow a 5er.  It has been suggested that they are strongly recommended for heavier rigs which sounds like the voice of experience but it is, nonetheless, an opinion. The only fact about 5ers pertinent here is that you need a tow vehicle to move it. What you use to move it with is a CHOICE. You choose a 2013 Ram 3500HD. You say you are happy with it. Great! Some will choose something something lighter and some will choose something heavier. Each will choose based on trailer size, weight, available resources, personal preference and sometimes based on wise counsel received from those with more experience and knowledge.   

Your statement is nothing more than your opinion and that IS a fact.  I hope you have a smooth experience with your choice. For the record, I think the Dodge Ram is an excellent truck and we would consider one for our application but that is years away. Your trailer is also very nice. I also think you are testing the limits of what your truck is capable of, and if you are comfortable, it is not my place, nor am I qualified, to tell you that you are wrong... it is simply my gut feeling. 

In the fullness of time, the RV community at large will find out which "choice" is the smartest for a given trailer. 

JMHO, Brian

 

---

I agree.. And well said. 

Hard to say what is Fact or Opinion.. Since if you don't listen to the manufacture, independent testing, or expert use.. Then it the only thing left is opinion.. So I ask, what make something a Fact? .

 

Kinda hard to get what I am saying .. and the big picture.. when my posts keep getting deleted..

 

Useless to post a argumentative opinion on this forum.

I think I am about done here.