short vs. long box - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Tom and Cathy · RV-Dreams Community Member

short vs. long box

Glenn West · RV-Dreams Family Member

One can buy a short bed 3500 dually? The older Mega cabs maybe and I have seen a few with dented cabs from 5ther hitting them. One had a Heartland toy hauler and they bragg about being short bed capable. Cab dented on both sides. Long trucks have their disadvantages parking but towing they are great. You would likely have to have a slider hitch and manual sliders are a pain. Also you will eventually forget about it and bend cab. The automatic sliders are expensive but advisable if you go that route.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Normally, I would recommend that one not get the truck first. It is usually advisable to choose the RV first and then get a truck that is capable of handling the weights of both the truck and trailer. That said, the F350/3500 series trucks are generally very capable of towing most every fifth wheel, unless one gets into the custom built fivers like New Horizons, Spacecraft, and Forks RV.

On the other hand, when we began researching RV's, we even considered motorhomes, so if you haven't made a definite choice of an RV yet, you might still wait on purchasing the truck. If you were to suddenly decide a motorhome better suited your style of full-timing, a dually would suddenly be a wrong investment.

If you are considering a short bed, remember that if your trailer's cargo carrying capacity is somewhat limited due to adding options to the trailer, one might need to carry some items in the bed of the truck. In that case, a long bed might be better.

Good luck with your research and planning.

Terry

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

RAM has the highest tow rating for all 3500 trucks.. Runs a Cummins engine and a commercial born Aisin Transmission, And a awsome exhaust brake.. looks better than any other 3500 too, .... Just saying.. You are right on the money with your choice of truck. I think the new ones have air ride too..Sweet.

Crew cab I got is a long box, I don't think I've see a short box version. Mega cabs comes with a shorter box.. Companies will add a long box to a mega cab for about 5k, I am told.. Though my crew cab is already about 22ft long..

You won't need a slider fifth wheel hitch, with a long box.

My .02

-- Edited by The Junkman on Sunday 3rd of August 2014 09:48:36 PM

Lonney Wade · RV-Dreams Family Member

My friend just bought a 36 ft. 2006 Montana 5th wheel, truck is a 2009 Ford F350 Diesel short box, box is 6ft 10in. when he started to back up he saw the camper was going to hit the truck cab, it had a short pin box so he bought a longer pin box, we put it in and he can make a very sharp full 90% turn, the pin box is 7 inches longer now.

http://www.morryde.com/aftermarket/rubber-pin-box/rubber-pin-box-53.html?gclid=CLau6YOz-L8CFcRcMgod4EkARw

Works very nice now.

Lonney

-- Edited by Lonney Wade on Monday 4th of August 2014 12:07:50 AM

Joe_Camper · RV-Dreams Family Member

The Junkman wrote:
RAM has the highest tow rating for all 3500 trucks.. Runs a Cummins engine and a commercial born Aisin Transmission, And a awsome exhaust brake.. looks better than any other 3500 too, .... Just saying.. You are right on the money with your choice of truck. I think the new ones have air ride too..Sweet.

Crew cab I got is a long box, I don't think I've see a short box version. Mega cabs comes with a shorter box.. Companies will add a long box to a mega cab for about 5k, I am told.. Though my crew cab is already about 22ft long..

You won't need a slider fifth wheel hitch, with a long box.

My .02

-- Edited by The Junkman on Sunday 3rd of August 2014 09:48:36 PM

Umm...Junkman, in the who can tow the most race, Ford is out in front again for 2015. Check this link: http://mrtruck.com/fordsd2015.htm

Also, there is now an exhaust brake on the 2015 Ford. I haven't found a hill in these flatlands to try it, yet, but I will soon!

You really can't go wrong with any of the big three 350/3500 trucks, but I do recommend the long bed. And, I think my truck is prettier inside and out! LOL! smile

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Lonney is right. However, while the turning radius has been improved with better trailer/truck cab clearance... one thing to watch for will be an increase in pin weight. By moving/extending the actual the pin box location forward on the trailer more weight is now carried on it (and the rear axle of the truck) and the front axle of the trailer. Depending on how the combo is loaded, it may not be enough to be an issue, but to be safe and sure, one should get the loaded truck and trailer reweighed.

Brian

-- Edited by biggaRView on Monday 4th of August 2014 05:00:27 AM

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Joe_Camper wrote:
The Junkman wrote:
RAM has the highest tow rating for all 3500 trucks...
Umm...Junkman, in the who can tow the most race, Ford is out in front again for 2015. Check this link: http://mrtruck.com/fordsd2015.htm
Also, there is now an exhaust brake on the 2015 Ford. I haven't found a hill in these flatlands to try it, yet, but I will soon!
You really can't go wrong with any of the big three 350/3500 trucks, but I do recommend the long bed. And, I think my truck is prettier inside and out! LOL!

Ding, ding, ding... Ladies and Gentlemen.... in this corner... biggrin biggrin biggrin

Round 15,143 of the great "Which truck is better?" championship fight of the world"...

Where's my beer and pretzels? confuse

Brian

-- Edited by biggaRView on Monday 4th of August 2014 05:06:32 AM

Joe_Camper · RV-Dreams Family Member

biggaRView wrote:

Ding, ding, ding... Ladies and Gentlemen.... in this corner...
Round 15,143 of the great "Which truck is better?" championship fight of the world"...
Where's my beer and pretzels?
Brian

-- Edited by biggaRView on Monday 4th of August 2014 05:06:32 AM

LOL!

Gary · RV-Dreams Family Member

I could be wrong but every time I've done a build of any of the big 3 350/3500 dually trucks, they have the 8 foot bed. Any shorter isn't even an option.

I could have missed something but I think the dually requires an 8 foot bed.

53 Merc · RV-Dreams Family Member

biggaRView wrote:
Lonney is right. However, while the turning radius has been improved with better trailer/truck cab clearance... one thing to watch for will be an increase in pin weight. By moving/extending the actual the pin box location forward on the trailer more weight is now carried on it (and the rear axle of the truck) and the front axle of the trailer. Depending on how the combo is loaded, it may not be enough to be an issue, but to be safe and sure, one should get the loaded truck and trailer reweighed.
Brian

-- Edited by biggaRView on Monday 4th of August 2014 05:00:27 AM

The weight remains the same. The pin box only changes the length of the pin, not the fifth wheel hitch. Same trailer, same pin (only on a longer box. If the truck part of the hitch remains static, the weight willl not change.

Look at the hitchiker system. It is a simple system and is idiot proof (well, in my case maybe not), it is specific for a short box truck.

Camper Chronicles · RV-Dreams Family Member

absolutely positively recommend the long box. Our dealer tried to talk us out of it, but we stuck firm on an 8 foot bed and the first time we had to do some fancy manuvering with the fifth wheel were incredibly glad we have the longer bed as it allowed Lee to turn on more of an angle. He actually said at the time if we had gotten the shorter bed we would have been stuck.

Jo And Craig · RV-Dreams Family Member

FWIW, we have the 2015 Ford F350 dually long bed and I absolutely love driving it! While we do have to be careful where we park, that's not such a big deal. And I do believe it has the best turning radius out there.

BTW, this is Jo speaking... not Craig!

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

53 Merc wrote:
biggaRView wrote:
Lonney is right. However, while the turning radius has been improved with better trailer/truck cab clearance... one thing to watch for will be an increase in pin weight. By moving/extending the actual the pin box location forward on the trailer more weight is now carried on it (and the rear axle of the truck) and the front axle of the trailer. Depending on how the combo is loaded, it may not be enough to be an issue, but to be safe and sure, one should get the loaded truck and trailer reweighed.
Brian

-- Edited by biggaRView on Monday 4th of August 2014 05:00:27 AM
The weight remains the same. The pin box only changes the length of the pin, not the fifth wheel hitch. Same trailer, same pin (only on a longer box. If the truck part of the hitch remains static, the weight willl not change.
Look at the hitchiker system. It is a simple system and is idiot proof (well, in my case maybe not), it is specific for a short box truck.

Have to disagree. While trailer overall weight has not changed, if you move the supporting position further away (read forward) from the C of G, even if it's only 7" in this case, the down force at the support points (pin box and axles) increases. (while decreasing it elsewhere (somewhere behind the C of G which logically would be the rear axle of the trailer. If one loads their rig to the max, all things being equal, that change could be just enough to put any one support point over it's rating. Sliding hitches or pin boxes are a different animal in that case, but Lonney didn't mention those in his post.

-- Edited by biggaRView on Monday 4th of August 2014 07:53:41 AM

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Brian ....you should use the Teater-Toter method.......2 60 pound kids on a teater-Toter (See-Saw) would balance ..move one farther away from the fulcrum (axle) and the downward weight increases forcing the other up.....if mark is involved the one in the air will suffer a rear axle failure because Mark will jump off!!!!

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Lucky Mike wrote:
Brian ....you should use the Teater-Toter method.......2 60 pound kids on a teater-Toter (See-Saw) would balance ..move one farther away from the fulcrum (axle) and the downward weight increases forcing the other up.....if mark is involved the one in the air will suffer a rear axle failure because Mark will jump off!!!!

Hate those rear axle failures!! biggrin biggrin biggrin

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

Joe_Camper wrote:
The Junkman wrote:
RAM has the highest tow rating for all 3500 trucks.. Runs a Cummins engine and a commercial born Aisin Transmission, And a awsome exhaust brake.. looks better than any other 3500 too, .... Just saying.. You are right on the money with your choice of truck. I think the new ones have air ride too..Sweet.

Crew cab I got is a long box, I don't think I've see a short box version. Mega cabs comes with a shorter box.. Companies will add a long box to a mega cab for about 5k, I am told.. Though my crew cab is already about 22ft long..

You won't need a slider fifth wheel hitch, with a long box.

My .02

-- Edited by The Junkman on Sunday 3rd of August 2014 09:48:36 PM
Umm...Junkman, in the who can tow the most race, Ford is out in front again for 2015. Check this link: http://mrtruck.com/fordsd2015.htm
Also, there is now an exhaust brake on the 2015 Ford. I haven't found a hill in these flatlands to try it, yet, but I will soon!
You really can't go wrong with any of the big three 350/3500 trucks, but I do recommend the long bed. And, I think my truck is prettier inside and out! LOL!

Don't believe the Hype... I think your reading that wrong.. "

"F-350 available with maximum towing package that increases fifth-wheel/gooseneck trailer towing capacity to 26,500 pounds, and raises the gross combined weight rating to 35,000 pounds"

My 2013 RAM does more than that..lol 2 YEARS AGO !

max trailer weight of 28,910

And a GCWR of 37500

Truck weighs 8421

Truck has a 15750 GAWR. 9750 on the rear. ..

Read it and weep.. Ford guys ! biggrin

Besides, I could never get past those ugly rear wheel wells.. Looks like a designer took a f150 and slapped on some aftermarket wheel wells. Don't even tell me you like those? . I bet this is why many go to trailer tow bodies..lol

I did like the the king ranch interiors.

I did like my ford.. Just blew up and ford stuck me hard..

-- Edited by The Junkman on Monday 4th of August 2014 09:05:22 AM

-- Edited by The Junkman on Monday 4th of August 2014 09:08:54 AM

-- Edited by The Junkman on Monday 4th of August 2014 09:13:26 AM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Tom and Cathy wrote:
We're retiring next summer and going full time RVing. Have never owned a fifth wheel, so need lots of advice. We are in the market for a vehicle now and looking to buy a Ram 3500 dually. We won't buy a fifth wheel until next year. Our question is does it make any difference if we get a short box vs a long box. Will it affect the clearance between the RV and cab of the truck when turning? Does the hitch have the ability to move forward and back?
Not knowing all the terminology, I hope the questions makes sense.
Thanks for any advice you can give.
Tom and Cathy

A short and simple answer to your specific question of short vs. long bed: You need a long bed – period.

If purchasing a new truck there is no reason to complicate things with a short bed and a slider hitch. Additionally slider hitches are generally, even the larger ones, of lower capacity than “regular” fifth wheel hitches. By regular I mean non-slider. This limits the maximum weight of the trailer - including a possible larger trailer in the future. You never know.

You also give up a lot of room in a short bed truck including the ability to install an aux (more) fuel tank in the bed.

Always plan on having as much truck capability as possible and a short bed is simply very limiting in many ways and can be dangerous even with a slider hitch. They have been known not to slide and then yes, the trailer will most likely hit the cab of the truck. That's not pretty when it happens and it does happen.

Unless the trailer is very light, you also want a dual rear wheel truck for safety and stability as well.

The RAM 3500HD, properly equipped, is a good choice if you like that brand. But long bed regardless of the brand selected. In the advise requested department: If I were purchasing a Ford I'd get a 2015 to get an exhaust brake. Chevy and RAM had exhaust brakes beginning in 2011. Ford not until 2015. This is a very important deal as to braking and control in the mountains to save the brakes. Unless you have driven a lot with and without an engine (turbo) exhaust brake you just don't know how important this is when towing - even on flat land.

HabDaddy · RV-Dreams Family Member

I have owned both short and long beds. The long bed is the way to go. With that option, you really have no limitations. As for short bed dually, you can get them. I drive one with our horse trailer (although it is an old one). I will admit that parking a long bed and navigating parking lots, etc is slightly more difficult but you are towing a 5th wheel. If you can handle that, 18 inches on your truck should not matter. One reason for the long bed is extra storage (be it a generator, coolers, or whatever). Size of the bed is not the only factor. Are you getting a standard cab, crew, etc? That can add extra length as well. Right now I drive a Chevy 2500 Crew Cab Long Bed. My wife hates to drive it (actually she just hates parking it). Sure it can take a little getting used to but I would not trade it for a short bed.

Bobc · RV-Dreams Family Member

Ok. someone had to say it!!!

Bigger is almost always better. at least that is what i have been told wink

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jo And Craig wrote:
FWIW, we have the 2015 Ford F350 dually long bed and I absolutely love driving it! While we do have to be careful where we park, that's not such a big deal. And I do believe it has the best turning radius out there.
BTW, this is Jo speaking... not Craig!

I've not kept up with the newer features of the trucks, but I had heard that they had improved the turning radius on the F350 to make it "equal" to the turning radius on the F450's. If one is using their tow vehicle as their daily driver as well, that could be a factor in one's decision.

When we traded for our 2008 F450 crew cab, we traded in a Ford F250 with just the club cab and short bed. The F450 with the crew cab and long bed is 3 feet longer than what the F250 was, but it turns in the same radius as the F250 did.

Terry

Glenn West · RV-Dreams Family Member

They don't have exhaust brakes. They have turbo brakes. The new trucks have a variable vein turbo. This system closes the veins on de excelling and provides braking. The higher the rpm's the better braking. Gm and Ford will provide the better braking due to it's V8 vs L6. The L6 don't turn the rpms as the V8s. Not saying the L6 not a towing beast, it is. But it does not turn the rpms and that makes better braking (rpms).

Glenn West · RV-Dreams Family Member

Also a true Exhaust Brake is far superior to any turbo brake on the ldts.

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mine has manual shifting buttons.. So I can control the rpm by simply press a button.. and down shift the 6 speed...Maybe thats what the buttons are for? I will have to try it..lol thx

-- Edited by The Junkman on Monday 4th of August 2014 06:54:51 PM

Glenn West · RV-Dreams Family Member

That is what it's for. Higher rpms better braking.

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

For stopping.. I have to tow about 12k this week.. I will play with it..

-- Edited by The Junkman on Monday 4th of August 2014 07:03:44 PM

crmfghtr · RV-Dreams Family Member

I want to chime in here having owned 3 Ram Trucks, most recently a 2012 3500 DRW Laramie 4x4. The Ram is a beautiful truck and as far as style goes IMO they have it hands down with the way they molded the rear dual wheels into the fenders. So Junkman that is one for you. Joe Camper is correct when he says the Ford is out front again. Ford's 6.7 has 440 HP and 860 LBS torque. Ford does not need a special engine, transmission combo to do this either. With all of that said, ALL three trucks GM, Ford, Ram, have good and bad about them. The best advice I can give is Research all three and see what truck will fit your style and liking the best. Check out warranty's and Past issues. I did, I also checked out a site called carcomplaints.com and entered all three makes and viewed the complaints filed with the NHTSA. You will be surprised. That is ONE of the deciding factors I used. I'm not allowed to tell you about the settlement I received from ram on one of their trucks but I was worried that it would happen again.
So my vote is for Bill and I would agree with him hands down on this one...

Happy Camping,

-- Edited by crmfghtr on Monday 4th of August 2014 07:34:56 PM

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

It's like 10 more lb of torque... lol.. I real hot rod..

And it still can't tow as much.. By alot..btw..

for 10lb of tq.. yep.. I will keep the looks, thank you..

-- Edited by The Junkman on Monday 4th of August 2014 08:34:30 PM

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill and Linda wrote:
A short and simple answer to your specific question of short vs. long bed: You need a long bed – period.

If purchasing a new truck there is no reason to complicate things with a short bed and a slider hitch. Additionally slider hitches are generally, even the larger ones, of lower capacity than “regular” fifth wheel hitches. By regular I mean non-slider. This limits the maximum weight of the trailer - including a possible larger trailer in the future. You never know.

You also give up a lot of room in a short bed truck including the ability to install an aux (more) fuel tank in the bed.

Always plan on having as much truck capability as possible and a short bed is simply very limiting in many ways and can be dangerous even with a slider hitch. They have been known not to slide and then yes, the trailer will most likely hit the cab of the truck. That's not pretty when it happens and it does happen.

Unless the trailer is very light, you also want a dual rear wheel truck for safety and stability as well.

The RAM 3500HD, properly equipped, is a good choice if you like that brand. But long bed regardless of the brand selected. In the advise requested department: If I were purchasing a Ford I'd get a 2015 to get an exhaust brake. Chevy and RAM had exhaust brakes beginning in 2011. Ford not until 2015. This is a very important deal as to braking and control in the mountains to save the brakes. Unless you have driven a lot with and without an engine (turbo) exhaust brake you just don't know how important this is when towing - even on flat land.

As usual Bill, a well reasoned and impartial analysis. Any newbie could do a lot worse if they chose to ignore your advice. If I knew nothing on this subject matter, I'd listen to a reasonable opinion combined with even handed, considered thought before chest thumping. smile

Brian

Glenn West · RV-Dreams Family Member

I wasn't promoting a short bed and a slider. Simply stating if they went this route, they would have to have one. I personally would never even consider a short bed dually. It really limits the use of the truck. I see a short bed dually as a truck for someone wanting a "cool truck" for cruising and such. Texas is full of this.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Glenn West wrote:
They don't have exhaust brakes. They have turbo brakes. The new trucks have a variable vein turbo. This system closes the veins on de excelling and provides braking. The higher the rpm's the better braking. Gm and Ford will provide the better braking due to it's V8 vs L6. The L6 don't turn the rpms as the V8s. Not saying the L6 not a towing beast, it is. But it does not turn the rpms and that makes better braking (rpms).

Glenn is correct. The variable veins in the turbo charger are used as opposed to a true, in-line, exhaust brake. But the function is the same. GM has been using this system for a long time in their MDT’s and moved it to the LDT’s (light duty pickups – 2500HD / 3500HD) in 2011 with good success. I did note in parentheses the word (turbo) in my post. I use the term exhaust brake because that is what the manufactures call it (incorrectly by name, not by function) so as not to confuse people who are not familiar with all the terms.

But yes indeed, the higher RPM engines allow for more braking. The Duramax has an un-powered - that is no pressure on the “gas pedal” - RPM limit of 4,800 RPM. This affords a tremendous amount of engine braking capability. I just came down I-17 from Flagstaff to Phoenix and never touched the brakes except at the rest stops. Do this all the time with the engine turning 4,000 or so. I’m not sure what the RPM limit is on the RAM or the new 2105 Ford – that is the limit un-loaded when braking. I’d like to know those numbers for reference. This all has to do with the bore and stroke numbers as some know and the Duramax is different from the Cummins and to some smaller extent the Ford. Not saying one is better. They are different – not better as such – it’s a different design. Select the tool for the job so to speak.

All that to say, if one understands better how to drive the truck and how to use manual gear selection with a good turbo brake, while noting the tachometer, the use of the service brakes becomes almost inconsequential. I have never had to replace the pads on my truck or trailers. For me, the Allison transmission with the turbo brake system just works so well and some of that is due to the high RPM capability of the Duramax design. (This is in addition to “tow – haul” which really isn’t part of this discussion of engine braking but it is important to enable this feature when towing.)

I’m sure others have their favorites to enjoy and hope they do. BTW, I really don’t have a dog in this fight as to what truck someone purchases. I just give information as factually as I know it which might be of help to others.

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

I like them all really. Ford just screwed me.. so they are dead to me.. this is my second RAM.. ever a issue.. and many GM's . always had little glitches with them..

I think we need to get back on track ? .. or posts may be deleted.

Long bed will ride smoother with the axle farther out.. and now some trucks have air ride, that should make it even better. I guess?

Bob and Lindy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Tom and Cathy, welcome aboard. As you can see, just ask and you will get answers. Maybe more answers than questions asked. My experience is with a short box crew cab srw and a long box crew cab drw. Srw= single rear wheels, drw= dual rear wheels. I did pop my rear window turning out of gas station in traffic with the short box 2 years ago. It scared the crap out of us. After driving that truck for 10+ years, I should have known. When we upgraded last fall we purchased a new f450. It has a tighter turning radius than the old truck and I have more room in the box for whatever. I definitely recommend the long box because of the 90°+ turning capability. Good luck in your research.

Tom and Cathy · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thanks to all for your input. It's great to get so many interesting perspectives. We will definitely get the long box. And, as we get farther along towards our RV purchase, we may need to ask more questions. I'm sure we'll be coming back to the forum. Thanks again!

Cathy & Tom