Dogs versus no dogs - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Camper Chronicles · RV-Dreams Family Member

Dogs versus no dogs

Dog Folks · RV-Dreams Family Member

Pet free? Nope. Dogs are part of our life but not our whole life. We have not been dog free in 41 years of marriage and not about to start now.

When we retired, we already were caretakers for two retired racing Greyhounds and a Belgian Malinois. These are big dogs. (70-100 pounds each) The idea of getting rid of them never entered our mind, so we loaded them up and hit the road in our 29 foot trailer. We made it work, but decided that as these guys passed on we would "downsize" in both numbers and physical size.

I believe we have now accomplished our goal. We have a 12 pound Chihuahua mix. We rescued him at 10 weeks old and he joined us on our journey. As the trailer is the only home he has known, and grew up in it, he is a pretty well behaved dog considering that he has had no real training. He training has come from living with two dog trainers.

Just last night my wife asked if I was "satisfied" with just one dog, whom is totally dedicated to her. He is her dog, no doubt about it. Satisfied? Yes, I am. One small dog is plenty at this stage of my life.

Would we ever be without a dog? I don't think so, as I have never been without a dog in my entire life. Of course, others will have a different opinion, but I feel that a dog adds a lot to the quality of life. Ours makes us laugh more than once during the day with his antics, provides unconditional love, and acts as an excellent doorbell. There is a reason that "dog" is God, spelled backwards.

WestWardHo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Trace,

Good question and one I never questioned before we went on the road. In a prior life, I rented an apartment when I worked in Cleveland for 10 years with a no pet policy. I really, really, really missed having a cat let alone a dog.

As I've said in a couple of threads on this subject, it's more difficult IN MY OPINION to have dogs in an RV. The biggest issue is we live this life in great part so we can go enjoy people and explore places. The maximum 5 hours that we can leave our dog without a walk really and often limits us. There are places we want to go that are not dog friendly. For the first time in our year on the road, we saw a sign posted this week offering pet sitting on a campground bulletin board. We found a groomer in NH that allowed us to bring Sadie to her for sitting on several occasions. Its important to leave a TV on and windows closed if you leave a dog/s alone, ask us how we know. I never tracked a budget before going on the road and was surprised to find that they are expensive for food, vets, heartworm, flea & tick meds & equipment. Both our cat and dog need expensive food and it doesn't help when you back over the cat carrier (empty) by mistake. 😁

Like DogFolks, our cat and dog make us laugh several times a day and we wouldn't change that. A dog seems to invite other pet folks to stop and talk. You might get more exercise because you have to walk the dog but we find ourselves getting less than when in the house.

Bottom line, I THINK we'd try and go dog less if we didn't already have our kids.

Sherry

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

I am a bit conflicted about having a dog. A part of me, the emotional side, says Josie (our beagle) is and has been a wonderful addition to our family on many levels, some selfish and some less so. The pragmatic side of me says another mouth to feed and take care of. I know that attitude is kind of self-centered but it there nonetheless. As I dig deeper into her impact on my life from all levels I can honestly say she'll be important to me till the day she takes her last breath. I think my inner child and compassionate side trumps pragmatism.

One look at those eyes.... She stole my heart when we first met her a year and a half ago. Yep, she's stubborn and independent, anybody know a beagle that isn't? But she's also a great companion, playmate(the simplicity of play keeps you young), exercise partner, excellent protector of us from rabbits and voles biggrin , garden assistant (need holes dug for those plants? or, you didn't really want that plant there anyway did you?) confuse , guardian of fallen robin chicks smile and preflight training encourager biggrin wink , and lastly always at the alert to warn us of strangers on the TV when doorbells ring during programs or commercials. biggrin biggrin biggrin ...

When we get on the road... she's coming with... if we have to make an accomodation, then that is what we'll do.

Will we get another? Probably not. Beagles are typically long lived... 18 years is not unheard of, and that would put us into our 70's by then. But then, never say never. smile

Brian

Dave Buck · RV-Dreams Family Member

We've traveled fulltime for a little over two years and our dog went with us. Couldn't see leaving her behind. She travels very well. She is a very friendly dog and loves to meet people. The best thing is she seldom barks unless someone come to the door. As Sherry said the major draw back is it ties you down as to how long you can leave here alone and there are just some places that dogs are either not allowed or it's not appropriate to take a dog. Ours is a Golden/Australian mix so she is not a small dog.

Wouldn't be without here though. May not get another dog after she is gone or may get a smaller dog.

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

Our Lab is a Diabetic service dog so where we go she goes. We also have 2 cats that are with us. In the winter they ride in the 5'er, in the summer I either run a genny to power 1 AC or they ride in the truck for longer moves. No issues with any of them in over a year now.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

We've had periods of time when we were with and without dogs. Without a doubt, the dogs have been a blessing to us. However, we have come to realize that some things are now different.

Our last two dogs (who lived with each other), had free rein when we lived in houses, because we always had a pet door for them to come and go whenever they wanted to go outside. When we moved out and into the fifth wheel, we could see no way to put in a pet door, even though we had a fenced yard and a step built so that there was a "platform" immediately after exiting the door of the coach. So, for them, they lost a lot of freedom in what they could do. The change also made it necessary for us to go home for lunch each day so we could let them out. Fortunately, our work was only three miles from the coach.

I suppose that if a dog had been raised in an RV, it would be different. Both of our dogs ended up being put down before we retired and started our new life. The first needed to be euthanized because she had seriously injured her back. The last one was blind from cataracts and deaf, and when we took him out each time, he could get lost in the yard, and if fact, even got lost in the coach on occasion. We had traveled to a rally in April without the coach and stayed in a hotel. He never was able to settle down because he was "out of his element." Because his life had lost all of its quality and that we would be moving a lot, we were sure it would be hard for him.

It is very doubtful that we will get another dog, simply because if we go out and can't get back to the coach to let them out, it would be "uncomfortable" for them. I'd rather not have to think that a pet were to suffer should an accident occur and we never returned.

I also think we will enjoy the freedom that will come now that we don't have pets. It will allow us to travel on day trips more than in the past and should we have to stay overnight for some reason. We miss our two dogs a lot because they both gave us a lot of joy and love. That will be missed, but we also have to be fair to them.

Terry

Dog Folks · RV-Dreams Family Member

I understand that the choice to have dogs or not is individual, and I respect everyone's opinion here.

The funny thing for me is that many posts have mentioned 5 hours away from the camper as a limit.

Being disabled, five hours away from the camper is MY limit, not the dogs! biggrin biggrin biggrin

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

We have a shiba inue.. I'm sure that not the right spelling.. Coming with us on the adventure..

Our second dog. First was a akita.. Both are stupid dogs.. Have a mind of their own.. even after professional training..

My next dog will be a trained police dog or guard dog.. Shepard I suppose.. Though the shiba has stopped a burglar trying to get it, with the barking. They never bark, unless there is something wrong.

Talensnana · RV-Dreams Family Member

If you are wanting the companionship but not sure if a dog would be good on the road, you might want to check into other types of family members, such as a cat or birds. Both my husband and I were raised with dogs. Although we love dogs, we are now ruled by our 5 parrots. They are loving, have personality and love traveling.

DenJen12 · RV-Dreams Family Member

Pet....SHHHHHH...don't let them hear that word...LOL. Ours feel like they are just as human as the rest of us, and of course,we don't change that.....in all honesty, that trait is definitely our fault. But we would be lost without them. It's funny that you pose this question now as my husband were just discussing this today. I have had a dog almost all of my life. There is just something they bring to my world completing it really. Nobody has ever had a bad day after having the chance to pet and look in the eyes of a goofy labrador. But, with all of that being said, I don't know as though we would get another if something should happen to these two before we get our "permanent" home. This lifestyle can be very hard on a "pet" and sometimes for the owner. Speaking from recent experience, emergency's happen and what if something happens and you aren't able to be there for them. They are completely reliant on you. Almost like having an infant but for many many more years than a baby stays that dependent. They also get very attached. When your life gets busy or hectic, they may not understand when they aren't always included. It also does hinder some things you may want to do. I know most of you are out enjoying your lives, traveling and seeing friends and family and this amazing world, but unfortunately your "pets" aren't always allowed to be there...so then what do you do? We luckily had a great boarding place in our last town but haven't left our boys since. While convenient for us, it still seems to be hard on them (to be honest, this mom doesn't like it anymore than they do).
It really is a personal preference. And only you will know if you are ready or are missing something in your life. Enjoy the journey and maybe down the road you may feel the need to share it with a new "four-legged kid"....and if that time comes, access your situation then and future plans to make sure it's a commitment you are ready to take on.

2riker2go · RV-Dreams Family Member

Even with the sometimes downside of having a pet, I can't really see myself ever being pet free. We currently have two cats which I find easier for rv life than a dog. They are easier to leave behind for a day and not have to think about being back to let them out. We do talk about having a dog again in the future though. I think it just takes a little more planning, but the upside of companionship and joy they bring to life is worth it. :)

blijil · RV-Dreams Family Member

We have a mini Dachshund. She travels well and wants to be with us all the time which is fine exept!

There are occasions we would like to do a B&B but no dogs.

There are times when we like to take a cruise but no dogs.

There are times when we can't leave her in the car because it is too hot or too cold.

So she stays home more than she would like and we have to make special accomodations for those special occasions but I can't quite get myself to leave her at a kennel.

Sometimes friends and family can help out and sometimes they can't. So we sometimes don't get to do those things we would like. So what's new!

We are not much help are we.

Larry

The Bear II · RV-Dreams Family Member

We are semi full timers.... And up until about 10 years had two medium sized dogs. They went every where with us.

As they got older both began to have health problems. The youngest one developed diabetes, went blind and lost her fur. The older began to lose her hearing. It was amazing to watch the two care for each other. The blind was led by the hard of hearing and the hard of hearing was protected by the blind.

There were a few issues- rarely could sleep in past 7am. Would have to take the dogs for a walk.

Where to keep them if we needed to go into a building and it was hot outside. For example, a visitors center where we would spend a couple of hours. Usually it meant running the generator and the air conditioner while the 5th wheel was parked in the parking lot with the dogs locked up inside.

Eventually both died from health complications. It tore me up each time I had to take one to the vet to have her put to sleep.

Even though I enjoyed having them, I don't think I could go through it again.

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

We had a Golden Retriever that died about 5 or 6 years before we hit the road and never got another one once we retired. Thought about it for a bit when we were thinking about getting on the road and decided that having to make sure we got home early enough to let them out for business would cramp our style. We frequently leave early in the morning for hikes and stuff and outings have been known to extend past dinnertime by the time we had a brew and some snacks. We would feel bad about leaving the dog alone at home all day without the ability to get out. Many trails allow dogs either on leash or not…but then you're stuck when you are done hiking and want a beer and a burger…not too many places allow you to bring them in unless they are service dogs.

I suppose whenever we quit full timing and end up part timing or part time full timing like Bill and Linda Napier do we'll seriously consider it…at that point we'll likely be older and the all day hikes leading to brews and late evenings will devolve to being back home by 1600 or so…we did like having the company.

Will likely get something less furry than a Golden though…we spent a lot of time vacuuming up dog hair. Mebbe a Lab or something a mite smaller like a beagle so it's not such a cleanup problem.

Ain't gonna be one of those darned rat dogs though.

Bill and Jodee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Like so many, we've both had dogs our whole lives. Can't imagine life without them. Always big dogs. Always dogs that shed. We lived in houses with yards but the dogs were always inside as much as out and we bought furniture that was dog friendly. When the last of our shepherds passed we were already planning to go fulltime. So we started looking for a smaller dog with less shedding. This time we wanted a dog that was rig friendly!

Tessa is a Soft-Coated Wheaten Terrier. At 26 pounds and nearly non-shedding, she is a perfect traveling companion. As we get ready to launch next year, our plans always include her. We know there will be some things we just can't do, places we won't see, because we have a dog. I figure we can't see it all anyway, so Tessa will just be our filter!

Seems to me this is an area where RVillage would be a big help. Finding others we could swap doggie care with while at the same campground would be invaluable!! I would certainly be willing to take a couple other fur kids for a potty and exercise break while their humans are out all day

.

Jodee

marianne57 · RV-Dreams Family Member

The very reason we got the RV was because we didn't want to kennel our Golden. We got a 2nd one 2 years ago and lost the first one last summer. Hence the name of our camper...."Gracie's Golden Getaway". I can not imagine not having a dog. We never had kids so they have filled the void, and I would imagine....always will. We hope to have our Maggie with us when we go full-time in 2 years, but if not...I'm sure another one will hit the road with us. I don't think we would get 2 at a time when we go especially for the size of a Golden Retriever, but I wouldn't rule it out either. The same way they keep us company, they're good companions for each other! :) Just don't think we would reach a point anytime soon that we didn't have at least one.

scrappy · RV-Dreams Family Member

We have four big dogs. Two German Shepherds and two big rescue mutts.

They are perfectly behaved, no barking, and know that although their "yard" may change, their house does not.

Once the older mutts are gone, we will probably get another German Shepherd.

Our dogs were trained not to bark right off the bat. They pay no attention to people walking by and rarely acknowledge other dogs.

People entering our site get a little attention but not aggressive.

Our dogs will stay quietly in fifth wheel for at least 8 to ten hours if necessary. Rarely necessary but they are good about it. No barking .... just snoring.

Wouldn't have it any other way.

Clay L · RV-Dreams Family Member

We have always had dogs and had two Shelties when we started full timing.
There were enough cons that when they had to be put down after 8 years on the road we decided we would not have another dog until we got a house and settled down.

Nickie our cat helped fill the void but died unexpectedly (from an aneurysm the vet thought) after 10 years with us on the road. We got another cat - Katie - and and then another - Kellie. Now that we are stationary my wife is campaigning for a dog.
At this point in my life I would just stick with the cats since they are so easy to care for (inside cats only) but I will probably have to accept a dog because of my wife.

-- Edited by Clay L on Sunday 27th of July 2014 08:49:14 AM

travelingkathy · RV-Dreams Community Member

This has been a very interesting thread. I'm not actually on the road yet (hopefully next summer), but I've wondered about traveling with or without a pet. We've always had pets and not sure I want to be without one. On the other hand I'm not sure I want to be responsible for a pet on the road either. Everyone's comments have been very interesting. Thanks
My current dog is 13 yrs old and has health issues. I'm not sure she will be around next year so I guess I will start out alone and see how it goes.

SnowGypsy · RV-Dreams Family Member

We have two senior dogs and I have had dogs since I was a child. Both my husband and myself are turning 60 this summer so we have decided that by the time our two pass on, we will not get anymore pets. We traveled for years with all the restrictions that pets create because we enjoyed having pets. For us, living in an area where there are so many elderly that end up leaving their homes to go to other living arrangements or who pass on, I see the fate of their pets. Planning needs to be in place for the "what ifs". We did just buy a citronella collar for the "barker" of the two and it is turning out to be worth much more than we paid for it! She is stubborn but a fast learner.

NWescapee · RV-Dreams Family Member

We would love to have a dog again, someday. For us, timing is not right at this time due to our art show schedule. Example, we're coming up on an art show where we would be gone from the RV from 8 AM to 8 PM for 3 days in a row. We could have taken advantage of the free dry camping for this show as we've done in the past, but with temps that are about 10 degrees higher than normal and hitting the mid-90's we decided to leave the rig parked on our monthly lease spot and commute to the show. That would be horrible for a dog, but at the same time, dry camping when in the mid-90's with a long haired kitty and a dog (if we had one) doesn't seem fair to the pets. So for now, we maintain a kitty friendly home, knowing that someday we'll have the right balance to have a dog in our life again. Sssh, don't tell Tazzy Kat that, she might be offended wink

waltben · RV-Dreams Family Member

My wife and I have had 5 dogs since we married. We're down to two, a prime aged Corgi and a very old mix big boy. Both are much more members of our family than just 'pets'. We've decided that we can't take Charlie (the old man) with us anymore since his arthritis won't let him climb even the pet ramp we got for him. Willow (the Corgi) seriously does not believe she's a dog. We couldn't leave her behind if we tried. Everywhere we go, she believes all the people we meet are there to rub her belly. She loves small kids and has never been aggressive towards other dogs - just doesn't want to play with them.

Bottom line: Dogs are 'Man's best friend' and they prove it every time you give them a chance. We've not had any problem with leaving our companions for hours and have always planned on how to get back in time to walk, feed and water them. Using any of that as an excuse is loosing something wonderful.

Selah · RV-Dreams Family Member

Except for military service I can't remember not having a dog. We currently have two miniature schnauzers. They are good for eight hours as that's how they were raised when we worked. It's all about maintaining consistent routine. They get fed the same food at the same times every day.
They do hold us back though. There have been several times where we cut short a trip to get back within that eight hour limit. They have to be walked regularly and I'm not just saying around the yard. I typically walk my dogs one to two miles every day. Not necessarily all at once but rarely less than half mile at a time. Last walk at night is usually around 9:30. First walk in the morning is around 9:00 unless were going somewhere requiring an earlier start. Plus one or two walks in between. Unfortunately my dogs don't mind the rain and demand there walks rain or shine. Might I suggest a set of Frog Togs.
Will we get another when they pass, probably not until we go back to a S&B. But right now we are enjoying the love and companionship that only a dog can provide.

"If there are no dogs in heaven then I want to go where they go when I die."
--Will Rogers (I believe)

Hdrider · RV-Dreams Family Member

We both love dogs and have had them most of our lives. In fact Diane worked in the veterinary field and has a love for all creatures. We live with catch and release devises under every sink I think LOL!! But let me throw twist in here.
We hit the road fulltime with our Golden (Jack) almost 2 years ago. He is a pretty good traveler. He loves people, isn’t a barker, he’s a rescue so we don’t know his past but he does have a hard time meeting other dogs so that is a challenge at times, he’s not destructive, he does well in the RV for 8 hours with no problem so we work our days around that. Here is where the twist comes in.
We all know our pets have their own personalities. And Jack certainly does. One of the things I notice with him is now and again he will simply ignore us when we are getting ready for one of those days we plan to leave him alone in the coach. Sort of like his way of saying, screw you guys!! At first I just laughed about it but then I started thinking more about how he might be really feeling.
Like most we see him as part of the family. But we also see him as a dog that makes US happy. But do we as full timers living this life style make HIM happy? Is it really just US we are thinking about? You have to think about it in some cases. Especially for some larger breeds that require more activity and room to run.

Dog Folks · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hdrider wrote:
We both love dogs and have had them most of our lives. In fact Diane worked in the veterinary field and has a love for all creatures. We live with catch and release devises under every sink I think LOL!! But let me throw twist in here.
We hit the road fulltime with our Golden (Jack) almost 2 years ago. He is a pretty good traveler. He loves people, isn’t a barker, he’s a rescue so we don’t know his past but he does have a hard time meeting other dogs so that is a challenge at times, he’s not destructive, he does well in the RV for 8 hours with no problem so we work our days around that. Here is where the twist comes in.
We all know our pets have their own personalities. And Jack certainly does. One of the things I notice with him is now and again he will simply ignore us when we are getting ready for one of those days we plan to leave him alone in the coach. Sort of like his way of saying, screw you guys!! At first I just laughed about it but then I started thinking more about how he might be really feeling.
Like most we see him as part of the family. But we also see him as a dog that makes US happy. But do we as full timers living this life style make HIM happy? Is it really just US we are thinking about? You have to think about it in some cases. Especially for some larger breeds that require more activity and room to run.

You raise some valid concerns, but please consider this:

It is well establish that dogs are "pack animals," by nature, and are most content when they are with their pack. (this is you.)

Which is better?

1. Working and leaving your dog home, alone, for 14-16 hours per day, five days a week, at least.

OR

2. Living full time in an RV, where you are with your dogs virtually 24/7.

For pack animal, which do you think they prefer?

Why do so many owners report that their dogs adore camping? Because to the dog, it means "I am going to be with my pack, and possibly take some walks or chase the ball. Oh boy,Oh boy,Oh boy"

Hdrider · RV-Dreams Family Member

I get it, and if we were in fact able to be with Jack 24/7 I wouldn't have made the remarks I did. However in real life we are gone 4 days a week touring the areas we visit while he stays home. That leaves mornings, evenings and maybe 3 days a week that we are home.

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hdrider wrote:
... He is a pretty good traveler. He loves people, isn’t a barker, he’s a rescue so we don’t know his past but he does have a hard time meeting other dogs so that is a challenge at times, he’s not destructive, he does well in the RV for 8 hours with no problem so we work our days around that. Here is where the twist comes in.
We all know our pets have their own personalities. And Jack certainly does. One of the things I notice with him is now and again he will simply ignore us when we are getting ready for one of those days we plan to leave him alone in the coach. Sort of like his way of saying, screw you guys!! At first I just laughed about it but then I started thinking more about how he might be really feeling...

I'm no dog "whisperer" but you report nondestructive behavior for long stretches when left alone. This a sign of a well adjusted dog. Destructive behavior is a sign of need for attention. I wouldn't worry too much about Jack. You really can't read human emotions or attitudes into a dog's behavior. You, as his "Alpha", set the pecking order and he is in his position in your pack, patiently awaiting your return... as is his place in the pack. If he was tearing up stuff then he would be trying to assert his dominance in the pack, just like young humans do to test the waters of independence. Sounds like he's settled into his role in your family. Rest easy.

FWIW, Brian

The Crumps · RV-Dreams Family Member

We have found a great solution to needing our "Pet Fix." We didn't have a pet before we retired so it made the decision to not have one easier. We decided to house/pet sit instead. So, we joined HouseSittersAmerica.com and have had about eight different positions in the three years we've been full-timing. We've cared for 1 to 9 animals at a time, including dogs, cats, horses, and chickens. We've spent from 5 days to 2 1/2 months taking care of other people pets. We fall in love with them and enjoy the experience very much. But, it's always nice to get back to our selfish lifestyle of not having to get up at 4:00 am to walk the dog in the rain or have to end our sightseeing experience to rush home to let them relieve themselves.

It also gives us time with a full size kitchen, bathroom, etc. We're always very happy to get back in our RV and get back on the road, but it's a nice break and we've made many long-term friends from the experiences. We've had two times where we've been paid, but usually it's just nice to have a free place to park and to get our "pet fix."

This might not be for everyone but it sure works well for us.

Happy travels!

galtgirl · RV-Dreams Family Member

I have had dogs my whole life, and never even considered not having a dog while living in the RV. We currently live in a house and have two French Bulldogs who travel very well. This is the first time that we have had two dogs at the same time, and we find they like having "one of their own" for companionship and to play with. They are always together and we find they don't demand so much of our attention because they have each other.

We are older...mid 60's...and are rarely gone for more than 4 or 5 hours at a time when we are out in the RV. When we resume living fulltime and traveling next Spring, they are definitely going with us. John even made a table that fits over one dog crate so we can save space. The other crate goes in the desk kneehole where a chair would go. The dogs are crated at night and when we leave them alone in the RV.

Yes, they are a pain in the arse sometimes, but I can't imagine not having them. We have three XPens that we link together and make a large enclosure around our patio when we are set up camping. That way we can just open the door and they can go outside and do their business without having to put a leash on them. They don't require much exercise, don't shed much, and are small and compact. We do make some sacrifices in order to have them with us, but to me it is totally worth the bit of restriction having them causes.

There is no right or wrong answer; whatever works for your particular lifestyle.

SnowGypsy · RV-Dreams Family Member

In another forum, they were talking about leaving dogs in the car, something I would never do but it reminded me of these helpful articles: http://www.animallaw.info/articles/State%20Tables/tbusdogshotcars.htm and www.avma.org/public/PetCare/Pages/pets-in-vehicles.aspx One person commented in the other forum that they didn't see the difference between leaving the dog while they went into the grocery store and having her husband wait while she goes in and yes, I'll admit that some of these people in the Pet area of the forum are, well, isn't is obvious?

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

SnowGypsy wrote:
...One person commented in the other forum that they didn't see the difference between leaving the dog while they went into the grocery store and having her husband wait while she goes in...

Come on Cathy, everybody knows dogs have opposable thumbs and reasoning brains in order to grasp the window crank and roll it down, or in the case of power windows, which the dog would also know the difference, to turn the ignition to the accessory or run position then find and operate the power windows. Or if they choose, start the vehicle and turn on the air conditioning. biggrin biggrin

Maybe the particular poster on that forum had a husband that was the stereotypical "dog", so to her there was no difference. An insult to all dogs and most of the rest of us guys. biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

Brian

-- Edited by biggaRView on Friday 8th of August 2014 07:50:17 AM