folivier wrote:

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I have a gun safe still in storage. It weighs about 350#. I had a cheaper one that weighed about 100# and will NEVER own one that cheap again. The house was broken into a few years ago. The scum took an axe and hammer and managed to beat a hole in the side wall large enough to get most of the long guns out. Didn't get to the top shelf where the pistols were.
The new safe is made of iron, not sheet metal. An axe will only get dulled trying to beat into this one.
So if you value your guns, or value keeping them out of the hands of criminals! Get a good safe.

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 Yep.. I hear ya.. I have 2.. the costco one weighs 700.. and is rated for 1 hour.

I also have a jeweler safe that weighs over 2000. 

Little different I think in a rv.. I seen some manufacture built safes into the floor, and are welded to the frame. I hope to do that in mine..

You sure have a lot of good ideas in the design.  I especially like the rig infrastructure considerations. 

Brian

biggaRView wrote:

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You sure have a lot of good ideas in the design.  I especially like the rig infrastructure considerations. 

Brian

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 Brian, for me it is ALL about the infrastructure elements. The beautiful finishes are great, but I'm after best-in-class infrastructure. That is why a custom coach works for us - because I can specify the infrastructure the way I want it. Within reason.  I can't get everything exactly the way I would do it myself. But close - very close.

That is the beauty of working with a New Horizons, Forks or Spacecraft. They already have pretty much great infrastructure, but if you have a better idea or preference then they will usually do it. 

That is not to say that all three of those build perfect coaches - they do not. You should expect some issues, as on any coach. But all three of those manufacturers get pretty close to getting it "right" and all three stand behind their products TOTALLY. 

First off, glad you were able to resolve the Recent Posts issue so that we can all benefit from your expertise, knowledge and opinions.  I just went into your build pix and I must say your rig looks awesome.  While currently way out of our range, it is something we could aspire to (somewhere down the road) and at the very least non-custom Mfrs may adopt some of your ideas and those of New Horizons in their future products, so it's a win-win either way. 

biggaRView wrote:

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While currently way out of our range, it is something we could aspire to (somewhere down the road) and at the very least non-custom Mfrs may adopt some of your ideas and those of New Horizons in their future products, so it's a win-win either way. 

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Brian (and others):

One thing to keep in mind with NH, Forks or Spacecraft costs are the options – which are pretty extensive and well beyond what others offer – including a pretty clean sheet of paper when you start your design if you so desire.  Those options can really run the cost up.

Jack’s trailer has about every option possible (although his next one will have more I’m sure) and his was the next build after the 2015 model show trailer. I’ve been it during construction and it’s really pretty and the infrastructure rather extensive to say the least.  But honestly, by specific design ours doesn’t have all of those options and it is still really pretty and has a great infrastructure design for our needs.  Did that save money?  Sure.  But we wanted a rig to meet our specific needs including road clearances, weight distribution, infrastructure, living layout and usability for our life and travel style.  As Jack says, for us it more about the infrastructure than the pretty interiors nice as those interiors are.

The point is, as I was spec-ing out a NH with someone else he was putting on everything including a 42” outside swing-out TV on the rig – on a 5er - and 1,000 watts of solar, etc. Then he was surprised it cost so much. Well, duh.

I am not selling NH, Forks or Spacecraft to anyone.  But many times the high price tag comes because of all the “stuff” people put on them.  Stuff many manufactures don’t offer because they are not custom builders and are simply not in the same business.  For example, you cannot get a full solar system installed by any of the manufactures in the Elkhart area except Forks that I am aware of.  At least not one done properly for what I call full-contact bookdocking.  They just are simply not in that business as one example.  Custom work costs more because they build a lot fewer rigs.

I saw a NH at the plant last month with a 12,500 watt generator installed. Really? Seriously, a 12.5KW genny in the very front of a live-in 5er without a workshop or something to require that kind of power?   The rework of the coach to do that was pretty serious as it required the relocation of all the electrical panels for one.  But, as the product designer said, we did it, but it cost a bunch in design time and labor.  But they will do it.  They are in that business.

I’m just pointing out that a lot of the costs are because people want really cool things, like Jack’s, that some others may not require.

We built the NH rig because we couldn’t find what we wanted anyplace else and believe me we looked for well over two years trying to duplicate, in many ways, our Escalade.  It doesn’t have all the really cool stuff Jack’s new one will have.  But, for us, we actually didn’t want many of those things for a variety of reasons beyond money. But they did build almost exactly what we wanted including changing the entire frame and “size” design which allowed for exceptional road and truck bed-rail clearance. The rig and truck run perfectly level and I have more storage than I know what to do with.  And with all that storage I couldn’t overload this rig, even with 100 gallons of fresh water on board, even if I tried. We have way over 3,000 lbs left of GVWR in the rig, fully loaded for travel with water. Need another truck if we ever plan to use all that GVWR. But for now – we’re very good with our current rig numbers wise and “approved” at the last weighing RV-Dreams weighing.  Just finished a trip across the US and back east including the infamous I-17 between Flagstaff and Phoenix.

It’s “our rig.”  In our case it was what we had to do to get what we needed to fit our lifestyle.  But we didn’t run the cost out the roof compared to many production line rigs and that was also by choice based on need.  NH builds with costs all over the board.

So, “it just depends.”

Just a perspective FWIW

Bill, I'm well aware that Jack's very nice rig is optioned to the nines and some extra goodies and design ideas also.  Your's also. I respect your choices and would love to go the direction both of you have, as would many others (but not all apparently) on here. Though it may not be in the cards for us, I'm not ashamed to admit both of your rigs and no doubt many others as well are design inspirations worthy of praise. You won't find me knocking them... more power to you. I don't need to know what you paid for it, nor do I care.  If I/we are able to consider New Horizons or any other really high end rig and truly desire to have it, we will find out in due course what the price of admission really is. Till then I will garner any technical, design or other inspriation from those rigs that have things worthy of evaluation. The rationale and criteria both of you used to select your rig and it's equipment are based on years of experience and financial ability, again neither of which are to derided. I, for one, am not in a contest with you as I hope you and Jack and the majority on here realizes. 

Should have known bringing this (thread) back might have stirred up a one man hornet nest. Sorry Terry, Gene, Jack, Bill, Howard and all the rest of the sensible folks on here. I was only trying to share my admiration for the details of what I thought was an interesting and well designed fifth wheel.

JMHO, FWIW

Brian

Brain:

I don’t recall you saying anything, or asking any questions that were not only appropriate but helpful to a wide range of people and situations.  There are many different needs from many different people who look for RV’s.  So a wide range of options is helpful and appropriate.

Thanks for the questions you ask and the opportunity to provide whatever perspective that might be helpful.

Having been around this forum for a long time I’ve enjoyed the give and take.

Bill

Very nice, Jack.  Haven't looked at all of them yet, but will soon.  Excellent thought process on the various details.  Hope to see many of those details incorporated into other builders rigs as time goes by... it's a win-win for everybody.

Brian

Jack Mayer wrote:

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The "Ram info" that Steve refers to is in the towing video. Let me be succinct and clear.

If you are towing a heavy trailer with a pickup or "super pickup" the most capable vehicle in that class is the Ram 5500. I would choose that over the Ford F550 because it has more hp/torque. And is a very nice truck to boot.

That is "right now"...this stuff changes constantly, so do your own homework/research to best meet your needs. But remember - NEVER go by the GCWR only. You have to account for the rear GAWR and your pin weight and "stuff" in the truck. ANd NEVER, EVER believe a truck salesperson. Do your own research and UNDERSTAND the ratings. Look over the discussions here for the issues involved.

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I would add to Jack’s evaluation the RAM5500 has an extremely effective exhaust (actually turbo) brake which.   The F-550 does not have exhaust engine braking and that includes the 2015 models.  This is a critical item when towing a heavy trailer, especially in the mountains.  I’ve driven both the RAM5500HD and the 2015 Ford F-550.  The RAM is clearly superior for trailer towing.  Do not confuse (or assume) the specifications of the Ford "pickup truck" versions of the trucks, like the private version F-450 with the pickup bed, with the commercial versions of the Fords (or RAMs).  The commercial versions have many differences even though they "seem" to have the same engine, etc.  They are very different trucks, both pro and con.  As Jack said, do you homework and don't believe the marketing hype.  You can run out of truck rear axle capacity long before you get close to the trailer towing rating with most of these new trucks regardless of brand.

The RO system and details is covered in this document.  

Whole house automation does NOT cover the AC and furnaces at the present time. Firefly is working on that. It does cover the tank gauges, the genset, the pump, the A/V gear (TV, AV receiver, DTV, TV lift), the shades, all the lights. It will shortly control the slides - although I'm not totally convinced that is a good idea. 

HDRider - it is not unusual for people to copy our coaches - or to use them as a base model and add their own nuances. In fact, the plan we did NOT build is being built by someone. In that plan the shower opens at the end, not the side. The bed slide is extended to hold the washer/dryer and the vanity is flipped to the street side. The fact that the W/D is in the slide totally opens up the bath area....it is an amazing amount of space, and the shower end entry is very nice...We decided that having the plumbing run from the slide as far as it had to go was tempting fate. Actually, Danielle decided that...I was confident that it would not be a large issue. But we passed on that plan after we developed it.

The shower we have is one of the really nice features of this coach. It really turned out nice. Much nicer than it shows in the video.

I was concerned about the natural cherry, but that turned out to be one of the best decisions we made...it REALLY opened up the feeling of the living areas. And the natural wood actually looks better than the stained wood.

I'm also glad I put 4 coats of clear on the paint. It is a noticeable difference over the standard three coats of clear on the 2015's.

Jack, I really like the genset under the living room. You say it's quiet and some day I'll be able to hear for myself what you are talking about so I'll accept that it is not an issue (yeah right, as  newb I have nothing to compare it to, LOL). By having the genny relocated and using that "new" space available for the battery bank, it seems like a no-brainer for the reasons you talked about in the video.  I have 2 questions on the battery bank.

First, I know that battery swap out will be at very long intervals, but how do you anticipate the man-handling of 165lb batteries to be accomplished? As a corollary, for those of us that don't/won't need 1200AH, would you recommend smaller batteries with the same foot print available or what about the situation where one has less foot print available?

Second, those batteries look to be very tall for the space they are in. periodic tightening of the wires on the terminals looks a bit daunting given the amperage and the close quarters. What precautions would one need to take to be safe other than taking extra care to not short out the battery terminals accidentally? 

Not afraid to tackle such tasks, just need to understand and build confidence.  I am somewhat mechanically inclined and prefer DIY for routine stuff, notwithstanding that, the spark plug and wire change out on my 2005 Equinox with a transverse V6 this weekend was a royal PITA especially on the the back plugs.

Brian