Build thread: Our 2015 New Horizons 44.5' 5er - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Build thread: Our 2015 New Horizons 44.5' 5er

Bobc · RV-Dreams Family Member

More pictures, more pictures.
Can we get the same trailer in 40' 41'?
When does this one go up for sale?

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

More pictures will be added on a weekly or semi-weekly basis, or as there is something interesting to show.

New Horizons builds 100% custom trailers. So you can have these amenities in any size you wish - from 32' to 48'. Things like the larger shower and side-by-side washer dryer will not fit in a trailer much shorter, but there are alternative layouts.

Once this trailer is finished it will be for sale, although I will not start marketing it for at least a year....but it is always for sale.

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Great pix. Great design ideas. New Horizons is certainly trying to keep the bar set very high. I foresee other builders copying some of them, particularly the additional storage compartments. The service bay being where it is(roadside behind the basement) really opens up space in the basement. That and the genset location. Who would have thought to put it under the living room? You say that servicing the genny is possible more or less comfortably, that should be a major plus. Doubt you could put it there with a frame using 10" I beam however. That will limit copying that idea to only the higher end builders. All in all, so far, a well thought out design.

For us, 44.5 feet triple axle 5ers are almost certainly way out of our price range but maybe 38' of thoughtfully designed and equipped coach may be within reach. One can hope... or at least dream smile

Look forward to seeing more.

Brian

jayc · RV-Dreams Family Member

Very nice Jack. We'll be looking forward to seeing the completed unit.

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

Very impressive..........Keep us updated with pic's and progress.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

biggaRView wrote:
That and the genset location. Who would have thought to put it under the living room? You say that servicing the genny is possible more or less comfortably, that should be a major plus. Doubt you could put it there with a frame using 10" I beam however. That will limit copying that idea to only the higher end builders. All in all, so far, a well thought out design.
For us, 44.5 feet triple axle 5ers are almost certainly way out of our price range but maybe 38' of thoughtfully designed and equipped coach may be within reach. One can hope... or at least dream
Look forward to seeing more.
Brian

Well, actually we thought of it as did another NH builder. There is plenty of room to get under our rig and service the generator. Change the oil, etc. If you have to remove it for major service panels are easily removed and you can get it out. But changing the oil and filter is a snap.

The generator noise level is also quite low under the living room. Actually lower than the typical front generator compartment; especially if you need to use it a night while sleeping.

We put in the rear side quarter fender storage compartment on our rig as well. Wasted space now well utilized. But the real bonus on our specific rig is a rear trunk that is over 3-1/2 feet deep and 4-/12 feet wide. You would be amazed at all the space that rear trunk and generator move opens up in the front basement. Better trailer front to back balance as well reducing pin weight but still at the recommend percentage level. The rear axle has plenty of excess capacity to handle the genny and storage according to wheel by wheel weighing done by H & L. With the trailer fully loaded for travel with our stuff, 70 gallons of water plus some black and a bit of gray in the tanks, we still have 3,250 lbs of cargo capacity before hitting the trailer’s GVWR. It’s quite a frame, tire and MOR/ryde IS axle combination. These are really well built as to strength. They do build "smaller" trailers as well for those of us who just don't need 44.5' We are very pleased with our layout for our traveling style. That's the good part. You can get almost exactly what you want.

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill, I stand corrected. I wasn't attempting to give Jack credit for anything original but the genny placement is novel to say the least, and it certainly had not occurred to me. I was referring to the apparent outside the box thinking(yourself included... tip 'o the hat) that even put it in that location rather the conventional thinking location which is in the front of the rig.

I'm all for anything that builds into rig design improvements in storage space. Finding room for additional batteries, the genny, the invertor/charger and all the other important rig infrastructure that doesn't occupy high rent real estate in the basement seems like something that all builders should be doing. Again, all this bodes well for us future FTers. Some where down the road we'll have to take a more critical look at the TV that will be needed to safely manage such a rig... if we go the custom route. confuse

Any pix of your NH?

-- Edited by biggaRView on Wednesday 28th of May 2014 11:11:29 AM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

biggaRView wrote:
Bill, I stand corrected. I wasn't attempting to give Jack credit for anything original but the genny placement is novel to say the least, and it certainly had not occurred to me. I was referring to the apparent outside the box thinking(yourself included... tip 'o the hat) that even put it in that location rather the conventional thinking location which is in the front of the rig.
I'm all for anything that builds into rig design improvements in storage space. Finding room for additional batteries, the genny, the invertor/charger and all the other important rig infrastructure that doesn't occupy high rent real estate in the basement seems like something that all builders should be doing. Again, all this bodes well for us future FTers. Some where down the road we'll have to take a more critical look at the TV that will be needed to safely manage such a rig... if we go the custom route.
Any pix of your NH?

-- Edited by biggaRView on Wednesday 28th of May 2014 11:11:29 AM

Brain, certainly no need for a “correction.” Jack’s done a lot of work with NH and is some of the reason they’ve moved forward even more. But we kind of “pushed them,” to quote the designer, with our rig. Not so much great innovations, but much more rig in a slightly smaller box so to speak. Smaller by NH standards. Gee its only 38.5’ long. We sort of worked at reinventing a type of rig they had but turned it into a Majestic with all that means including the frame. Lots of work, but fun.

One of the “nothing things” we did was ask them to put the outside scare / flood lights under the awnings and on the slides so that the lights actually put light on the subject if you follow me when all the slides and awnings are deployed. For us, this is a better arrangement. The rig has superior ground clearance, tall ceilings even in the bedroom and more cargo capacity than we could ever use even with 100 gallons of fresh water. There is also some custom electrical work that isn’t all that innovative as it is flexible.

One thing to keep in mind, a rig with lots of storage space that doesn’t have the GVWR to handle all that cargo is not going to work. You have to have the frame, axles and tires to deal with all the weight that storage can create.

You should consider dropping by the plant and speaking with Cole before you decide they only make a rig “too big” or too costly. It depends. They can build pretty much what you want if you’re willing to put in the time to design it. No, they are not inexpensive and for good reason. But they are “tanks” with a very nice living quality and as many amenities, or not, as you care to pay for. Not for everyone, but we like it so far as it meets our needs quite well. BTW, it tows and moreover stops like a dream.

I’ve got pictures but not posted. I’ll see what I can do about that for you.

Bill

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill and Linda's NH is a unique design vis the frame. It is very very nice. I almost adapted some of it for mine, but there are some barriers to doing so that will require some additional work - think a widebody built on Bills frame.

In our case - and in the case of the 2015 models going forward - we got additional ground clearance over previous Majestics by raising the belly 2" and the tail 2". For most people that is enough clearance.

What Bill said is accurate. New Horizons will build you anything you want. They have built more than a few short Majestics...from 32' - 35'. However, if I built one that short I would build on Bill's frame, not the widebody frame. I think it is a more flexible coach.

A New Horizons is not cheap - even a short one. But there is a reason for that - it is built with very good materials, lots of structure and there are lots of amenities. "You get what you pay for" applies here.

The genset under the livingroom has been done for years....just not as a standard feature. But it is an excellent place to put it on larger coaches.

The right/rear storage box has not been done before....mine is the first widebody, and Bill's is the first narrow body Majestic to have them. Bill's rear storage compartment that spans the rear can only be done on his narrow-body frame.

Our whole house RO system is the not the first one (probably second or third). Our 3'x4' walkin shower is the first one of that style. Our whole coach heated floor is the second one. (I edited for accuracy)

-- Edited by Jack Mayer on Thursday 19th of June 2014 09:19:41 AM

James and Cindy · RV-Dreams Family Member

I saw Bill and Linda's new camper at the spring rally. I thought the location of the generator would make it harder to work on, till I got under his rig. I am over 6'2" and had no problems with head clearance. It is actually easier to service than my parents class C. After seeing their rig Cindy and I are trying to schedule a trip to the factory.

James

DEWhit · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack Mayer,

What will be the fully loaded weight of your new unit and what will be the GVWR ?

Is the underfloor heating the same type pex lines and pressures used in residential builds ?

thanks.

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

Maybe I missed it? But how much does one of these cost?

We went looking around the southwest trying to find a ambassador with in 3 states.. With a big one..No go.. so we could not buy something we never seen.. We wanted to see this brand, though..

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

The Junkman wrote:
Maybe I missed it? But how much does one of these cost?

We went looking around the southwest trying to find a ambassador with in 3 states.. With a big one..No go.. so we could not buy something we never seen.. We wanted to see this brand, though..

Depends on what you get of course…but our 2012 39 foot Majestic was about $200K list and about 20% less net after assorted discounts and negotiating.

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

Neil and Connie wrote:
The Junkman wrote:
Maybe I missed it? But how much does one of these cost?

We went looking around the southwest trying to find a ambassador with in 3 states.. With a big one..No go.. so we could not buy something we never seen.. We wanted to see this brand, though..
Depends on what you get of course…but our 2012 39 foot Majestic was about $200K list and about 20% less net after assorted discounts and negotiating.

Are you a ambassador? I bet they get a deeper discount?

I am not very knowledgeable..Nor do I want to spend endless hours figuring out a rv.

Just wanted a decent one at a good price.

I will send in for the pricing and build sheets right now.. lol.. just to have a look.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Repeat customers may get some additional discount but Ambassadors do not get any "special" pricing that another determined customer could not get. All customers get a 15% off of the MSRP for "factory direct".

The average size of a NH is now right around 40-41'. For a 2015 in that size with average options/customizations my GUESS is that the walk away price would be around $180-190K....maybe a little more. The 2015's have, of course, gone up in price. But you do get a lot more in the 2015. There will be published details on the 2015 features soon. The prices have gone up for two reasons: 1) material costs are REALLY up, and have been. The factory has been "eating" those costs for awhile, but they are forced to increase the base prices to recover the costs. 2) There have a been a number of infrastructure and other improvements put into the 2015 models that do cost more, and of course that has to be accommodated in the base price. I do think the changes/additions are WELL WORTH the price increase.

I want to STRESS that the price is highly variable, depending on what you customize and put into the coach. They are ALL custom.

A NH is "typically" a pretty sophisticated (read complex) coach. It does not have to be, but the typical customer does a bunch of customizations and the NH already has a lot of fairly complex systems on it as standard. These are high end custom coaches - so they are fairly sophisticated, akin to a high end motorcoach from a "house systems" perspective. BUT, since they are custom you could certainly specify something simpler.

If anyone wants to see our new coach we are in Woodland Park, CO until October. We are happy to show it. Once we actually GET it, of course....probably August.

To answer specific questions: The underfloor heat is electric, not hydronic. I would not put hydronic underfloor in a towable. I think it is asking for trouble.

I do not know the weights yet, but it will not be a coach you would tow with a pickup or "super pickup". In my opinion this coach needs an MDT or HDT. I estimate that the loaded weight will be in the 25K range. GVWR will be whatever I want within the formula range, but no more than the 29K the hitch head is rated at. I'll probably ask it to be set at the 29K. The rest of the running gear should allow that. I have 8K axles, H rated tires, and a 29K hitch head. The frame is way more than enough for those weights.

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

I'm sure I will get to see this rig.. I will keep tabs on the travel.. as I will be traveling, I'm sure we will cross paths..I don't get out til aug.. florida first for the winter I suppose.. then not sure.

I sent in to get the build sheets and MSRP pricing on the majestic.

As a ambassador, I think that makes you the salesperson too? I'm not sure if you can .. or will provide this.. No one seems to want to build a bulletpoint format for comparison ..Maybe email me, if you would rather not post...

I have ordered a 5 slide,43' DRV lexington MS fully loaded. So far I only made a small deposit. It has 1 pc roof, extra slide for bedroom, added some custom stuff ( was no problem ), axles, washer dryer, satv, 3 camera system hooked to my dash, awnings, Upgraded carpet, shades, window treatment . ect.. You get the the picture..Just about all options, except for generator ( have a nice onan 5500 to install )...All For about 110k out the door.. I could have went to the elite for additional 15k.. I think it was..Didn't see the value.

Bottom line .. For a guy who is lazy, and not versed on RV construction and/or options.. Can you tell me what I would be getting for the additional 80k over a fully loaded DRV MS, or 60k over a Elite?

I will try to dig into the lit from NH.. when I get it..But to be honest, I doubt I will know or understand what I am looking at.

Thanks.. will look to hear from ya..

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

A quick question.. If NH says that RV weight is 25k or more.. How do you do that on 3 axles that are rated at only 8k? ( 24k total )

And if you do come in at 25k.. Then according to dodge, the dodge 3500 with the right stuff, is certified to pull it..

So why do you say it must be pulled by a tractor trailer?

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

The formula for GVWR takes into account the pin weight which will be on the truck. Which will be at least 6200 lbs. So the axles do not have to be rated to carry the entire GVWR.

The Dodge 3500 would be overloaded on the rear axle. Check the GVWR and GRAWR of your intended tow vehicle CAREFULLY to determine what it can actually pull. NEVER, go by the manufacturers "trailer towing" numbers. Always check the specs for YOUR setup. The GCWR is based on "marketing" numbers. No load in truck and single 150 lb driver, "horse trailer"-like frontal area on the trailer, and a gooseneck trailer (typically because goosenecks have less pin weight).

The Dodge 5500 might do it - I have not checked the specs....But Bill has and may chime in here....

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

I know some need to justify the need for a tractor Trailer.. And I'm sure it's better towing with a big rig.. But I need to dive the tow truck as my daily driver too.. and if people are doing it.. and dodge says it can be done, And the numbers Jive.. Then I will do it too. Have you done it?

And if you don't rely on the manufacture specs, what did you use when you bought your truck? I'm sure it was the mfg specs? The new trucks out are bigger and better than they ever been.

My Ram 3500 BY THE SPECS..

According to my math.. I have the ability to to hold 6,400 over the rear axle.. So it would NOT be over loaded.

GVWR - 14,000
GAWR - 15,750
GAWR FRONT - 6000
GAWR REAR - 9750
GCWR - 37,500
Total weight 8421
Front weight 5061
Rear weight 3360
Payload - 4430
TRAILER EQUP WEIGHT - 28,910

I posted this in the other thread here...
According to this..

blogs.cars.com/files/2013-ram-hd-25003500-charts.pdf

My Crew cab / long box / 4x4 / longhorn / DRW .. W/ 4.10 rears and the HD tranny

Has a max trailer weight of 28,910

And a GCWR of 37500

Truck weighs 8421

So combined.. just under the GCWR rating.

Truck has a 15750 GAWR. 9750 on the rear. .. leaving about 6400 capacity for trailer tongue weight..( I'm adding air bags too )

I think the numbers are good? No need for a bigger truck..

Trailer is 24000 fully loaded..

On top of that .. truck is total luxury and drive like a dream.. It will also be our driver in our adventure.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

If those are your actual scaled numbers on the axles and you have your pin weights then you can do the math and see if it will work.

I don't need to "justify" having a tractor to tow with. I had a tractor towing a 16, 500lb trailer. It is what I want to tow with. And my daily driver is a smartcar.

My comment about the manufacturers specs is that you have to understand the fine print behind them. I was not suggesting not using them, but only that one should understand ALL the numbers and not just go by the GCWR. You clearly have looked at your numbers. In your situation it would work assuming your numbers are accurate, but I doubt it would work for our new trailer. The pin weights would probably be too much, and I would have "stuff" in the bed like a fuel tank, etc. My F550 weighed 9900 lbs with everything in it for fulltiming. A Dodge would not weigh less.

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

Basic weights on the 43' Drv..( pretty sure mine will be a bit heavier )

Gross wgt 22,000
Dry WGT 17925
Hitch wgt 4375
So 4075 carry weight..( still doing airbags )

I don't run a second tank.. I like to stop .. in fact, need to stop ..lol

Not sure on your New NH..But at a quick look.. it appears they are building yours right to the Ram max specs.. Which would make sense.. They can sell much more of them for my truck, versus your truck.

Just my .02

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

New Horizons build CUSTOM coaches. None of them are the same. So they are not building "to" something. They build what the customer wants. In my case I'm not worried about weights so I can build it the way I want it. In other cases they work with the customer to hit a certain weight.

The super pickups like the new Ram 3500, the new 5500 and the new Fords are certainly capable trucks. If Ford would get their rear axle weights "rational" then they would do better in that market. A 22K trailer can easily be pulled by a Ram 3500 (a new one) assuming that you stay within the GVWR and the rear axle rating. I think the GVWR would be fairly difficult to maintain on the heavier pined trailers, though. A Dodge ready to pull is going to be at least 9,000 lbs. That does not leave much for the pin.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack Mayer wrote:
The formula for GVWR takes into account the pin weight which will be on the truck. Which will be at least 6200 lbs. So the axles do not have to be rated to carry the entire GVWR.

The Dodge 3500 would be overloaded on the rear axle. Check the GVWR and GRAWR of your intended tow vehicle CAREFULLY to determine what it can actually pull. NEVER, go by the manufacturers "trailer towing" numbers. Always check the specs for YOUR setup. The GCWR is based on "marketing" numbers. No load in truck and single 150 lb driver, "horse trailer"-like frontal area on the trailer, and a gooseneck trailer (typically because goosenecks have less pin weight).

The Dodge 5500 might do it - I have not checked the specs....But Bill has and may chime in here....

Jack:

The RAM 5500HD will handle your trailer nicely by specifications.

The charts show the RAM 5500HD with appropriate upfits, including an aux 60 gallon tank and a hauler bed, tools, 3 people, ET Air-Hitch and an allowance for “stuff,” i.e. a truck I would build, can handle a 6,200lb pin and a 25,000lb trailer and not exceed any ratings nor be borderline. The HD towing package is required naturally.

The RAM 3500HD and the F-450, including the 2015 model, would not be within specs even without an aux fuel tank or a hauler bed with your trailer. Way over ratings; 1,000+ on the rear axle alone for the RAM and a lot more for the Ford; just not enough capacity in these trucks.

The problem naturally with not having a hauler bed to save weight is the issue of truck bed rail to trailer clearance which is present with all trucks post about 2011. That’s the biggest issue I have with the new, more capable “pickup trucks” that can’t be solved without a hauler bed. (Unless you have NH build your trailer to accommodate them as we did. As you noted, they are “custom” - not just “optioned.”)

These numbers are based on the Body Builder’s guide for the truck. Not the marketing nonsense which is impossible to achieve in the real use world.

Bill

-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Friday 30th of May 2014 05:03:08 PM

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill and Linda wrote:
Jack Mayer wrote:
The formula for GVWR takes into account the pin weight which will be on the truck. Which will be at least 6200 lbs. So the axles do not have to be rated to carry the entire GVWR.

The Dodge 3500 would be overloaded on the rear axle. Check the GVWR and GRAWR of your intended tow vehicle CAREFULLY to determine what it can actually pull. NEVER, go by the manufacturers "trailer towing" numbers. Always check the specs for YOUR setup. The GCWR is based on "marketing" numbers. No load in truck and single 150 lb driver, "horse trailer"-like frontal area on the trailer, and a gooseneck trailer (typically because goosenecks have less pin weight).

The Dodge 5500 might do it - I have not checked the specs....But Bill has and may chime in here....

Jack:

The RAM 5500HD will handle your trailer nicely by specifications.
The charts show the RAM 5500HD with appropriate upfits, including an aux 60 gallon tank and a hauler bed, tools, 3 people, ET Air-Hitch and an allowance for “stuff,” i.e. a truck I would build, can handle a 6,200lb pin and a 25,000lb trailer and not exceed any ratings nor be borderline. The HD towing package is required naturally.
The RAM 3500HD and the F-450, including the 2015 model, would not be within specs even without an aux fuel tank or a hauler bed with your trailer. Way over ratings; 1,000+ on the rear axle alone for the RAM and a lot more for the Ford; just not enough capacity in these trucks.
The problem naturally with not having a hauler bed to save weight is the issue of truck bed rail to trailer clearance which is present with all trucks post about 2011. That’s the biggest issue I have with the new, more capable “pickup trucks” that can’t be solved without a hauler bed. (Unless you have NH build your trailer to accommodate them as we did. As you noted, they are “custom” - not just “optioned.”)
These numbers are based on the Body Builder’s guide for the truck. Not the marketing nonsense which is impossible to achieve in the real use world.
Bill

-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Friday 30th of May 2014 05:03:08 PM

What charts?

Please educate us on why either one would not be in spec please..

oh wait.. are you talking the NH 6200 lb pin weight ?

Not the 4300 from DRV.. So mine would be 1000 UNDER the limit? Correct ?

-- Edited by The Junkman on Friday 30th of May 2014 07:42:15 PM

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

I have followed this thread because of the design technicalities Jack is having designed into his new NH and it occurs to me that the part of the discussion pertaining to the TV seems to cover the limits of what brand X, Y or Z "could" tow. I am fairly certain that most of todays crop of properly equipped P/U's "should" be able to do the job for their rated designs, however I don't get any sense of a comfort zone. For example Jack stated, "A 22K trailer can easily be pulled by a Ram 3500 (a new one) assuming that you stay within the GVWR and the rear axle rating". Does that include a comfort zone(an arbitrary number to be sure) that I would feel safe. I'd rather not pull something that tested the full capability of my TV or the hitch? Would 22K be the realistic limit of a Ram 3500's towing ability with a safety and design margin so as to not test it or me... all things being equal? Sorry to go off topic a bit. The jury is still out for us on a HDT as a TV and therefore most of the heavy/really large 5ers too.

Separately and as long as Bill mentioned them, how much extra weight does a decent hauler bed add to the TV over the standard bed? An auxillary fuel tank(without fuel)?

Jack, you mentioned having 1200AH of battery capacity... could you elaborate a bit on that? You mentioned placing them in the front right of the rig. The invertor/charger, where would it be placed?

-- Edited by biggaRView on Friday 30th of May 2014 06:58:06 PM

-- Edited by biggaRView on Friday 30th of May 2014 07:10:33 PM

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

Just a quick question.

Is this NH the Heaviest, 5th wheel RV ever created?

or are there others with over 6k hitch weight?

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

The Junkman wrote:
Bill and Linda wrote:
Jack Mayer wrote:
The formula for GVWR takes into account the pin weight which will be on the truck. Which will be at least 6200 lbs. So the axles do not have to be rated to carry the entire GVWR.

The Dodge 3500 would be overloaded on the rear axle. Check the GVWR and GRAWR of your intended tow vehicle CAREFULLY to determine what it can actually pull. NEVER, go by the manufacturers "trailer towing" numbers. Always check the specs for YOUR setup. The GCWR is based on "marketing" numbers. No load in truck and single 150 lb driver, "horse trailer"-like frontal area on the trailer, and a gooseneck trailer (typically because goosenecks have less pin weight).

The Dodge 5500 might do it - I have not checked the specs....But Bill has and may chime in here....

Jack:

The RAM 5500HD will handle your trailer nicely by specifications.
The charts show the RAM 5500HD with appropriate upfits, including an aux 60 gallon tank and a hauler bed, tools, 3 people, ET Air-Hitch and an allowance for “stuff,” i.e. a truck I would build, can handle a 6,200lb pin and a 25,000lb trailer and not exceed any ratings nor be borderline. The HD towing package is required naturally.
The RAM 3500HD and the F-450, including the 2015 model, would not be within specs even without an aux fuel tank or a hauler bed with your trailer. Way over ratings; 1,000+ on the rear axle alone for the RAM and a lot more for the Ford; just not enough capacity in these trucks.
The problem naturally with not having a hauler bed to save weight is the issue of truck bed rail to trailer clearance which is present with all trucks post about 2011. That’s the biggest issue I have with the new, more capable “pickup trucks” that can’t be solved without a hauler bed. (Unless you have NH build your trailer to accommodate them as we did. As you noted, they are “custom” - not just “optioned.”)
These numbers are based on the Body Builder’s guide for the truck. Not the marketing nonsense which is impossible to achieve in the real use world.
Bill

-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Friday 30th of May 2014 05:03:08 PM
What charts?
Please educate us on why either one would not be in spec please..
oh wait.. are you talking the NH 6200 lb pin weight ?

Not the 4300 from DRV.. So mine would be 1000 UNDER the limit? Correct ?

-- Edited by The Junkman on Friday 30th of May 2014 06:52:51 PM

The charts available from the RAM website for various iterations of the trucks. But you also have to know the weights that you will be adding to the truck in addition to the base weights and naturally pick the chart that is specific to the truck in question. Most of the marketing number are either best case, like a non-crew cab, or are generic under conditions that will never be obtainable.

And yes, I was answering Jack’s question concerning his trailer and the RAM 5500HD. Not the DRV.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

biggaRView wrote:
Separately and as long as Bill mentioned them, how much extra weight does a decent hauler bed add to the TV over the standard bed? An auxillary fuel tank(without fuel)?

As always, it depends on what kind of bed, how much storage, how big is the aux tank (fuel is ~8.3lbs / gallon) and also how much does the hitch weigh – some are as much as 400 lbs with all the air system. That’s one of the problems with these “generic” answers and specs from the manufactures. It is very easy to read numbers that look great, but don’t really tell the whole story.

My numbers are based on known weights for my equipment taken on known accurate scales. But I can tell you in general that some hauler beds, hitch, tools and fuel can add 2,500lbs to a rear axle in no time. “It depends” on the equipment chosen.

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Can you use your TV (2012 Chevy 3500HD Duramax-Allison \ 4-Wheel Drive \ Air Ride

Classy Chassis RV Hauler Bed Conversion \ Aux Fuel Tank ) as an example?

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

biggaRView wrote:
Can you use your TV (2012 Chevy 3500HD Duramax-Allison \ 4-Wheel Drive \ Air Ride
Classy Chassis RV Hauler Bed Conversion \ Aux Fuel Tank ) as an example?

What matters is your trailer and truck. Not mine. If you like I’d be glad to plug your numbers into my sheet for the RAM 3500HD and see what comes up - or the RAM5500HD. I know you’ve listed some above but send me the specs on the trailer you are considering via PM and I’ll see how they come out. Also, what your are considering to put on the truck. We're traveling so it may be a couple of days depending. But this might be informative to you.

Also, what are the weight specs on the axles for the trailer and how many axles is of interest.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

On the battery question: I have six L16 Fullriver AGM batteries. Each pair is 400 Ah. I put these on the right side of the trailer because the kitchen slide causes the left side to be about 1000 lbs heavier on that set of tires/wheels. (Well, the kitchen slide and everything else....). So the intention is to counterbalance that some, where possible.

On the weight issue: ALL of the custom coaches are heavy. New Horizons, Spacecraft and Forks all build heavy trailers. New Horizons is actually the LIGHTEST of the three. Why are they so heavy? Because they use exceptional framing, and exceptional building materials. Quality materials simply weigh more. The weights go as follows, from heaviest to lightest: Forks, Spacecraft, New Horizons. This is a generalization - any of the three can and does build heavier trailers than the others, depending on the particular requirements of their customer.

Bill, thanks for answering on the Dodge 5500. I was pretty sure there would be no issue, but I knew you had all the research done.

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

Got the 2015 majestic Build sheet.. Went through and built the rv as the one i ordered elsewhere.
To say the least .. if I was to spend the cash,I would not spend the additional 115k ..
Maybe used one a couple years old for 100-120k...But would rather have new rv for the same money.

I will leave it at that.. I already took this thread too far.

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

Nope, not an ambassador…and i sort of figured that being one would get you a better deal…but Jack says they don't so I guess not.

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

Why would you do it then? I mean Jack here, is like on every fourm? Selling for NH.
Maybe he get a commission, or stock options? There must be some money motivation some where..

I must say Jack, you have a nice ...Blog? ( I think it's called? ) It's very clear you spend a ton of time at this.. and other topics like tractor trailer and training, and such.

I did learn alot looking through it.

GENECOP · RV-Dreams Family Member

Sometimes people get behind a product because they believe in the quality and the integrity of a company.....true that it is often about some monetary compensation, but not always.....At the end of the day, who really cares, We can all decide what products we like and see value in, and what products we want to pass on....

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

I was just curious.. Doesn't matter to me. I am not a potential buyer.

But someone who is reading his sales pitch.. should also know what that person's motivation is.. don't you think?

GENECOP · RV-Dreams Family Member

I have my hands full just figuring out what my own motivations are....never mind someone else's...

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

The fact Jack shares the details of his & Danielle's rig's construction is very gracious. For those of us that might consider a purchase, information is also a useful thing. For those of us that are not,.... well, information is a useful thing. We are future FTers, and the design ideas being installed in higher end rigs seemingly filter down to the middle and lower echelon rigs. This is a good thing. Even if they don't get adopted by the mass market of RV builders, one can modify an existing rig with some of the ideas to improve their rigs with better engineering practices and useability features that the "pioneering" types, those on the leading edge, if you will, try out before and perfect before the rest us get the finished product. Their reasons can be altruistic or selfish but we all benefit regardless. More power to Jack and thanks.

GENECOP · RV-Dreams Family Member

Now that we all got that out of the way, let's let Jack get back on track with his intention for starting this thread.....Build Info....thanks to all...

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Just to be clear, we are NOT employees of New Horizons, and we do not get paid for what I put in my website about them. In fact, I'm sure there are plenty of things I say about New Horizons that they might wish I did not. I generally share my opinions - good or bad. Ambassadors do get a credit against coach improvements, a future coach, or service if they show their coach to someone and that person ends up buying. I don't think there is any big secret about that. And any current New Horizons customer is likely to get a better deal than a new customer - depending on how well people negotiate. Again, no big secret and I think about what most people would expect.

New Horizons builds a pretty nice coach. Certainly high end. So does Forks and Spacecraft. I would own any of those three.

As I've said before many times - most of the RV manufacturers build a pretty poor product, when looked at in the context of auto manufacturing or shipbuilding. There is not a single manufacturer that builds a perfect product....including the 3 manufacturers I mentioned above.

None of the stuff I post is a sales pitch since I'm not a salesman. I'm critical of NH and other manufacturers when it is called for. My intent is to provide factual information. Don't like it - then don't read it.... :)

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

New pictures starting at slide 35. LINK.

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

Too bad.. I would like to talk with a salesman from New Horizons.. I guess I would need to call one there?

That frame really looks like almost too much steel.. If there is such a thing? It's obvious where all the weight comes from. I would think you would not need so much steel, with a properly designed frame? Going to have go do some comparing...And call the salesman.

With only 1000 units , over 20 years.. That is pretty low volume. from where I am sitting, and a very good reason they are hard to find. I tried. I really would have like to see one.

I'm not saying they are bad.. of course, for the money .. they have to be good.. NH has no choice.

I like the cabinet faces.. and some of the options they offer.. Not much else.

But will put a call into Candie overthere, and see if she can sell me on why I might want a NH over a DRV.. or anything else, for that matter.

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack Mayer wrote:
New pictures starting at slide 35. LINK.

Great stuff Jack, keep it coming. I really like the clean battery bank and invertor and solar controller locations/set-up. In the utility bay, the fresh water supply looks partially buried behind a panel. Is panel removeable for access? My experience with hose reels is they, at some point, begin leaking. Is it serviceable? Cindi wants to know more about the under floor heat. Do the mats(?) extend to all areas under the wood floors? (including the storage area under the toilet room) How much of the coach heating is/will (your estimate) provided by the under floor heating? The floor plan shows a large unoccupied space at the back of the living room, we assume it has a couch there, NH, being a custom builder we'd prefer/like a desk/sewing/crafts center in part of that space, something like what Terry & Jo have so that would be easy to do.

While Junkman makes an interesting point about weight vis a vis the sturdiness of the frame construction, I'm with you on the desireability of strong bones to support the coach. Using less steel might save weight but introduces more flexing which can't be a good thing for the rest of the structure and its components especially while in motion. My thinking on the the big foot levelers tends to favor 6 vs 4 even on a rig strong enough that it can theoretically handle just 4. Can you comment on that?

Brian

dewwood · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack,

I appreciate you taking the time to show your build in progress. The pictures and information are good for anyone who owns a fifth wheel no matter what brand. Being able to so see all of the components helps understand how the units are put together which is beneficial to any owner when troubleshooting things on our units. It looks like you have put a lot of thought into the design and will have a great coach when finished.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

The Junkman wrote:
Too bad.. I would like to talk with a salesman from New Horizons.. I guess I would need to call one there?

That frame really looks like almost too much steel.. If there is such a thing? It's obvious where all the weight comes from. I would think you would not need so much steel, with a properly designed frame? Going to have go do some comparing...And call the salesman.

With only 1000 units , over 20 years.. That is pretty low volume. from where I am sitting, and a very good reason they are hard to find. I tried. I really would have like to see one.

I'm not saying they are bad.. of course, for the money .. they have to be good.. NH has no choice.

I like the cabinet faces.. and some of the options they offer.. Not much else.

But will put a call into Candie overthere, and see if she can sell me on why I might want a NH over a DRV.. or anything else, for that matter.

What are you going to compare to? A Spacecraft has as much or more structure, and is heavier than a NH. A Forks has as much or more structure and is heavier than a NH. How will you know how much weight is being carried on the structure in your comparison. Also, take into account how much cantilever there is on the upper deck and behind the axles.

Why would you be calling sales at New Horizons if you just ordered a new coach? You are welcome to come see ours any time you like if you would like to see how they are built....or any other Ambassador in your area. And again, since you like so little of the coach - other than the cabinet faces - why would you bother looking at one? There are many good reasons to buy a NH over a DRV, but a DRV is not a bad coach. And since you have placed your order for one, you obviously feel it is the right coach for you.

NH is currently producing about 35 units a year. So you will not see them everyplace. In contrast, DRV produces well over 500 a year. Viewing a NH is best done at a major RV show like Tampa, or through an Ambassador.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

biggaRView wrote:
Jack Mayer wrote:
New pictures starting at slide 35. LINK.
Great stuff Jack, keep it coming. I really like the clean battery bank and invertor and solar controller locations/set-up. In the utility bay, the fresh water supply looks partially buried behind a panel. Is panel removeable for access? My experience with hose reels is they, at some point, begin leaking. Is it serviceable? Cindi wants to know more about the under floor heat. Do the mats(?) extend to all areas under the wood floors? (including the storage area under the toilet room) How much of the coach heating is/will (your estimate) provided by the under floor heating? The floor plan shows a large unoccupied space at the back of the living room, we assume it has a couch there, NH, being a custom builder we'd prefer/like a desk/sewing/crafts center in part of that space, something like what Terry & Jo have so that would be easy to do.
While Junkman makes an interesting point about weight vis a vis the sturdiness of the frame construction, I'm with you on the desireability of strong bones to support the coach. Using less steel might save weight but introduces more flexing which can't be a good thing for the rest of the structure and its components especially while in motion. My thinking on the the big foot levelers tends to favor 6 vs 4 even on a rig strong enough that it can theoretically handle just 4. Can you comment on that?
Brian

The hose reel is serviceable. In practice they have not been an issue. But the access hatch is there to service it. And it can be removed. The hose for the fresh water enters to the back of the utility panel...and that is accessible from the back and you can remove the front of the entire panel if required. Also, this is all PEX after the hose reel so that it is very unlikely there would be a leak.

The underfloor heat is ONLY a supplement to the furnaces. As is the fireplace. Although it will probably heat the entire coach down into pretty cold temps. Right now the fireplace alone maintains the heat into the mid-low 20's. The heat is in all areas of the main floor not covered by a cabinet. It is not under cabinets. It is also not in slides - although it could be. I did not want it in the slides since the only habitable slide has just seating in it. It is not necessary.

The floorplan does not show a couch in the r3ear because we have our own furniture. It will have a Lazy Boy rocking reclining loveseat with two endtables. It can easily be desks, or a sewing table or anything you like.

The Bigfoot has always been a stable platform on a frame that can handle 4-point leveling. It may be that 6-point is more stable...I've not seen any independent tests that would indicate that. I can tell you the Bigfoot is VERY stable. But you do need a frame that will allow use of it when getting to the longer spans. I find the DRV 43' with 6 point leveling no more stable than the Bigfoot, and I was able to go between a NH 41' and the DRV right next to each other at the HDT Rally. Which is superior? Heck if I know....The Bigfoot seems simpler to me... but that is not based on any testing....

-- Edited by Jack Mayer on Wednesday 4th of June 2014 04:41:40 PM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack:

Took a peak at the new cabinets today in the wood shop. They look great with some very nice grain and color texture in the wood. Nice change for variety. Linda likes them very much. We still prefer the stained cherry but we know you’ll like the natural look as will others.

They were doing some preliminary cabinet placement on the decking today. Work progresses. As you know the 2015 show model is right ahead of yours on the line.

Lots of activity in production, delivery and service.

Plan is to join some RV-Dreamers for dinner tomorrow night who are coming in to take a look. I think we will have at least 6-8 RV-Dreamers around by Friday.

Bill

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks, Bill. It is hard to NOT like the stained cherry - it is beautiful. But after two coaches with it we were up for something a little different. I hope we end up liking it!! It is intended to be more complementary to a transitional decor. We also eliminated a lot of the detailed woodwork - like the corbels and some of the finger molding. It "should" look nice....but the cherry will be very light to start with until it ages some.... as you know....

James and Cindy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack,

Cindy and I got to see your new trailer this week. My first thought was it is big. We saw one of the built walls and it is long! Your cabinets really are nice. The craftsmanship is just like a custom home builder. Cindy really likes the finish. The dovetail joints make for a very strong joint on the drawers. I got to see a new frame next to your trailer. I know why they are so heavy. There is a lot of metal used. After talking to Cole, I know this is truly a custom builder. They will try to accommodate every wish. Their latest project will be 53' with a gun safe located in livingroom slideout. We got to spend time with Bill and Linda. We learned alot. Now we have much to think about.

James