Best Cold Weather 5th Wheel ? - RV-Dreams Community Forum

DEWhit · RV-Dreams Family Member

Best Cold Weather 5th Wheel ?

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

Basically you need to look for the manufacturers that rate their 5th wheels for full time living. Mobile Suites, Excel, New Horizon, Big Country, Lifestyle, LandMark, Trilogy, are the ones left in business. Older coaches from Carriage, and Teton are also great. Propane is the way to go, but your going to need a big tank to make it doable in ND.
Fully skirting the RV is mandatory.
Finding a unit with double pane windows would be helpful, but plan on covering them anyway.

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

In my opinion, the ideal coach would not have slides, but I'm in the minority there. I think that there are very few slide rooms that are as well insulated as the main walls, and then there is the gap between slide and wall. There are lots of ways manufacturers use to seal those gaps, but if the wind is from the right (wrong) direction it can still get in. I asked about building one without slides, and the manufacturer I asked really didn't want to do it, because I would have a hard time selling it later.

If you have a choice in how to park the coach, I'd suggest that you try to park it so that either the nose or the tail is into the prevailing wind. Check the direction of the longest runway at the nearest airport and orient your coach that way.

jayc · RV-Dreams Family Member

We've done well this winter-the worst that I can remember in my life- and I am really impressed with the fireplace. We had never had one until we bought our Landmark and I will never have another trailer without one.

We have three large slides and I think there is more air draft at the windows than the slides. We bought off the lot and didn't order double pane windows, which I would get on a new coach.

NWescapee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Other brands to consider that make smaller 5th wheels, Artic Fox and Outdoors RV Manufacturing, both have 4 season trailers. Their selection of 5th wheels is limited and none of them were as big as we wanted for FT, they make more travel trailers. We had one of the TT's before going FT and we used it in both cold weather in Eastern WA and very hot weather in both Eastern WA and Northern ID and it held up well for us

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

In the opinion department: While LP generators are not as quite as efficient as diesel, I would always put an LP generator in a 5^th wheel. Why? Because they always start, even if left sitting for 2 – 3 – 4 months. The fuel doesn’t require additives in cold weather to prevent gelling and possibly other additives if not fresh. LP’s run much cleaner. Did I mention they always start?

If you were using the generator all the time – like every day and for long periods, then diesel is probably the better choice. It depends. But in a fiver an LP is usually the more practical choice.

In the used, quality and very well insulated trailer department, I would consider some of the used, late model New Horizon Summit’s they have on the lot and I have seen. They might meet your needs at a more attractive price and if you need something modified NH does that. These are Summit’s not the Majestic. Same quality construction just a slightly smaller footprint.

Best of luck

Bill

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Artic fox comes to mind.......

I dont know if you have ever done this before .....you might want to reseach on youtube and other sources ....Williston SD.

There are alot of oil field workers up there that can give you an Idea of what its like to live in artic temps in an RV.

I just spent 3 Years in the White mountains of NH in different scenarios , and it takes alot of prep work to even get close to being comfortable....also winter fuel costs are high.... propane at those temps are inefficient and Electric is hard to keep temps with in an RV.

its doable but not always comfortable!

DEWhit · RV-Dreams Family Member

Many thanks to all of you that have replied.

Correction: In my haste, I posted North Dakota and the actual location would be near Williston, South Dakota.
Thanks for posting that Lucky Mike. I got my Dakota's mixed up in my haste posting.
I have been offered a job there and we are as stuck as mud trying to make a decision on going and the clock is ticking.

I have been in the area working a temporary assignment and the job offer does not include housing for a couple.
The motel where the company had me was costing them $300 a night.
The idea of moving into a "man camp" does not hold much appeal at my age.
Many there with trailers and RV's seem to be expending more to stay for the jobs than what they will actually net after they figure out their expenses and do the math. A lot don't seem to be doing the math either. We should count our blessings I guess.

We were planning on purchasing a RV in the very immediate future to ease into some weekend and vacation jaunts around the southeast US until we make a decision on what to do in retirement and when to pull the trigger.
The economy decided to throw us a curve and possibly end my wife's job and shut down and move overseas within the next year and that resulted in me opening my mouth at my company about positions at a location supporting the oil fields.
Now , here we are having to make a decision on our jobs and roots in Georgia and heading for a boom town economy.

I think it hastens our decision on purchasing a RV, but makes the process a little more pressing than we wanted and now involves way more than the original plan. So much for that order of march.

The absolute best idea I have heard is from a coworker that said we should buy a used 53' freight trailer from the company and insulate the thing a foot thick with closed cell insulate and set it up as a apartment with kitchen appliances and a bathroom and a large generator and a fuel tank and load a vehicle in the rear and go from there. We could use a company tractor to haul it there, but I'm not too sold on that idea for an indefinite period.
I haven't even mentioned that idea to the wife as I can imagine the response. It would not be pretty. I did tell her that we could save some money on electricity for a meat freezer. She was not impressed.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble, and thanks for the replies.

Jo and Ben · RV-Dreams Family Member

We wanted a true 4-season RV and decided on an Arctic Fox. We bought the 32-5M which is 35 ft, and they have one model larger at 39 ft. We felt it was one of the few that are truly 4-season (although many say they are).

mpierce · RV-Dreams Family Member

I live in ND. The only Williston I know of is in the NW part of ND. It is where the oil boom is. I searched both Google and map quest. NEITHER showed a Williston, SD.

Not even sure why any generator would be needed. If you are trying to keep warm up here in Jan, you WILL be at a permanent site, skirted, hooked up to water, sewer, and electricity. So, why the generator, other than as a backup?

You WILL use a LOT of propane! Imagine -30F, with a 30 mph wind! People do it, but it is NOT easy!

Good Luck.

-- Edited by mpierce on Thursday 6th of March 2014 07:02:58 PM

bigboomer · RV-Dreams Family Member

We have wintered for the last two years in our Montana and have done just fine. This year we skirted the bottom and it made a huge difference. We also put the insulated pillows in the roof vents and used shrink plastic on the windows.

Our average temps over the last 2 months have been below freezing daytime and well into the low teens and single digits at nights. We still get periods of sub zero temps for nights at a time and have had stretches of sub zero temps for a week at a time and have not had any issues with pipes freezing or feeling cold. On average we use about 2 to 2 1/2 gallons of propane a day during the coldest spells.

In all honesty to us it does not matter what manufacturers tell you about how they put more insulation in their rigs as compared to others....bottom line is you can only put some much insulation in a given space. The walls on an RV are not like a house so you cannot expect the same R value.

Wintering in an RV can be done but you have to put you big boy pants on and make some sacrifices....like anything else in life!

Good luck!

Les

cherylbrv · RV-Dreams Family Member

Forgive my ignorance -- can someone please explain what you mean by "skirting"? I'm picturing a bed skirt - that goes under the mattress and makes the space between the frame and floor look pretty. But I suspect that's not the same thing here!

Thanks!

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

Easier than copying pic-
www.google.com/search

Most people do the foam board, 1-2 inches thick, and put a heater underneath to help keep plumbing and tanks from freezing.

-- Edited by Alie and Jims Carrilite on Thursday 6th of March 2014 02:15:37 PM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Alie and Jims Carrilite wrote:
Easier than copying pic-
www.google.com/search
Most people do the foam board, 1-2 inches thick, and put a heater underneath to help keep plumbing and tanks from freezing.

-- Edited by Alie and Jims Carrilite on Thursday 6th of March 2014 02:15:37 PM

This will make a huge difference in really cold and windy conditions. Just a little heat near the pipes makes a huge difference and you can use electric heat wrap tape along with pipe insulation for the water hose. The “pillows,” as suggested, also make a big difference as the exhaust fans holes after all are only a 1/8” or so piece of Plexiglas there as insulation. Not too good. These are available as a perfect fit from CW or on-line.

The other thing that is simply necessary, IMO, is a 100 or more gallon LP tank and bulk delivery which will usually be less expensive You will drain the 30/40 lb tanks way too fast. A 40 lb tank only holds ~9.5 gallons.

In any RV, even with double pane windows and “proper” insulation, when you get much below 20 degrees, IMO, you will indeed need your “big boy / girl pants” and mostly lots of LP and supplement heat. What keeps an RV reasonably warm in these conditions is lots of $$$$’s.

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

DEWhit wrote:
We are considering buying a new or used 5th wheel trailer that will need to hit the ground running and do duty in North Dakota.
Would I be better with a unit without slides for cold weather ?
What brands offer better insulation packages and line insulation, etc.
Diesel generator or propane in below zero cold ?
Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated.
We would prefer a cheaper late model used trailer if available.
Thanks for any help rendered.

I would think that a New Horizons would be probably the best you could do…but then you pay a lot more for an NH than other brands. Bill's suggestion about one of their used Summit models is a good one. No slides would be better for cold obviously; but I would not want to live in a no slide model unless I lived by myself; just not enough moving around space in. NH's slide gaskets are pretty good…we do not run any heat at night and the couple of days that we had overnight lows down around freezing here in southern FL (not supposed to get that cold down here, but it didn't ask me)…we have not run our furnace at all. Use the electric fireplace until we went to bed then turned it off and with lows of 33 we were still around 60 inside come morning.

Good insulation/great winter performance and cheaper generally don't go together much…the less you pay the less you get and usually the place that the builder cuts corners is in insulation or structure and other stuff you can't see.

We also looked at an Elite Suites…and while it's insulation was a lot better than lower end units it still wasn't as robust as our NH has.

If you're going to live in SD in the winter…you want a unit that's rated and warranted for full time living and 4 season I would think…that's generally going to push the price towards the higher end of the market but as in many things you get what you pay for. I would definitely go the skirting route with a heater underneath if you're fixed in a location for the winter…as well as get an extended stay propane tank…with temps down near 0 you'll have to use the furnace even with an NH and they suck propane pretty fast. I would stick with the LP generator as Bill recommended.

I'm not saying you can't make it with anything but a NH or other high end unit of course…but the less you spend the less you get insulation wise as I said above and while you can keep it livable you'll use a lot more propane doing it.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

I happen to know of a 2008 Summit that will shortly be available. It is not advertised. I think it is 38'. If there is interest I can provide details. It will be relatively cheap....

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

You are getting some good advice here, so I don't need to add a lot. Jo and I have been "static" full-timers in our DRV Mobile Suites now for almost 3 years here in Oklahoma City. For either of the Dakotas, you are going to get a LOT colder than Oklahoma. This winter, we've had colder temps, getting as low as 6.6 degrees, for an extended time. In about a 30 day period, we used roughly 60 gallons of LP from our leased external 120 gallon tank. I'd think that if you were going to be up there for a long period of time that you would want a larger tank, perhaps even as big as a 500 gallon one. I think the propane supplies will charge more per gallon if they are only filling a tank that is 120 gallons.

Check the R-ratings on the different RV's. With regards to DRV Suites products, the Elite Suites and Mobile Suites models are built on 15-in frames and have 3 1/4-inch walls. One can also order one with what is called the Canadian Package. That gives one unit with two 30,000 btu furnaces instead of a single one at roughly 42,000 to 45,000 btu.

Also, look for units that have a water manifold that allows you to turn off the water to separate sections of the coach. We had a leak at our shower's hot water line that was a pretty slow leak. I kept that closed unless we were actually taking showers.

Good luck with your research and welcome to the RV Dreams forums.

Terry

BugSplatter07 · RV-Dreams Family Member

There are steps that you will defiantly need to take to keep everything from freezing up but is very doable. As many have mentioned skirting, putting a heater underneath, getting a freeze proof hose and wrapping it with insulation. Holding the water in your tanks until they are full, this keep the sewer hose from freezing up. Make sure the camper has a heated underbelly. Getting a large propane tank and having it plumed into your system. The best tape that we have found to use on fiberglass gel coat is foil tape. Very little residue when it is taken off.

We spent last winter in the north east corner of New York State and there were many nights at -15 to -20. We found a place out in the woods to block the winds. One thing a local told us was to use the snow against the skirting. (I know it sounds crazy but it helps make the skirting air tight.) We never had any issues but I can say I did not like it.

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

BugSplatter07 wrote:
One thing a local told us was to use the snow against the skirting. (I know it sounds crazy but it helps make the skirting air tight.)

Insulates just like the Ol' Eskimo Igloo Hotel.

MarkS · RV-Dreams Family Member

The best cold weather fifth wheel is the one you are in and satisfied with. Many manufacturers are leaning away from R values because in many ways they are meaningless. You can have R5billion walls but if the windows and doors leak it won't make any difference. Spending your entire budget on a coach may or may not help keep you warm. If you can't afford to buy propane you will freeze to death. I might ruffle some feathers but, just because it's pretty and costs more, doesn't necessarily make it warmer or better. Bat insulation is affected by vibration and gravity. Do your research and choose the house you like. There will be plenty of opportunity for the rest of us to tell you how wrong you were.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

This comment is based off of Bugsplatter's last comment about the sewer hose. If you are going to be in one place for a long time, consider making up a PVC system that will let you get away from using the "slinky-stinky" hose. Those little valleys will collect water in winter and freeze and over some time, the hose will freeze up solid. I learned that from a couple that were full-timing in Missouri.

While it is more expensive, we have a sewer line made by EZE-Kleen Sewer System. It is made of PVC and has no valleys in which water can accumulate. We've been full-timing in Oklahoma City for almost 3 years and this is our third winter with the EZE-Kleen with no problems. Below is a blog post I created that shows some good photos of some of the system's elements.

Blog post about EZE-Kleen Sewer System

One thing to watch for is the rate of "drop" in the elevation from the sewer outlet at the trailer and the sewer inlet in the ground. We had to add some extensions to get the "elbow system" out further from the coach because our angle from the coach to the sewer inlet was close to 45 degrees.

Terry

DEWhit · RV-Dreams Family Member

UPDATE.

Once again, many thanks for all the replies here and personal messages about the 5th wheel models and systems.

We have decided that we will not be relocating for the job offer.

The actual job itself played no part in our decision which is a bit odd in such a situation.
Our decision to not accept the transfer was based strictly on the financials of a move to a location that leaves a lot to be desired in the satisfaction and quality of life category.
Everything about the area and day to day life hinges on one major industry and developing an area for one purpose only and doing it quickly at any cost. Nothing wrong with that for young persons or those boxed in financially, but we have too many irons in the fire and things going in our favor to cast aside for just that job. We got scared before we realized the monster wasn't actually that big or bad.

A relative put it best when he described our situation as a good seasoned coon dog that got away from lessons learned and was about to run itself into the ground trying to tree a skunk.

Anyway, we do appreciate the responses and will continue with the forum to help us reach decisions on equipment for our earlier interests in touring and RV lifestyle. Thanks.