Our RV Dreams Almost Went Up In Smoke - RV-Dreams Community Forum

DeeJee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Our RV Dreams Almost Went Up In Smoke

VanMar · RV-Dreams Family Member

DeeGee

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. A question and a point. Do you have a power management system like the Progressive Industries unit? If not, I think one would have prevented the damage.

If the person doing the electrical work is an employee of the park, then it seems the park would be liable.

Hope all turns out well.

Vance

Selah · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hopefully the campground insurance will take care of the damage. Other than the hotel,stay I hope it didn't ruin any planned trips.

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

Yes should of had a Progressive Industries surge/electrical management set-up installed. Sounds like you didn't have one from what happened. Hopefully covered by insurance. Campground should be liable as they were doing the work at the time everything fried. Anyone else get fried?

http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_hw50c.htm

EMS HW50C

-- Edited by TRAILERKING on Saturday 8th of February 2014 10:44:45 PM

-- Edited by TRAILERKING on Saturday 8th of February 2014 10:46:23 PM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

X3 I could not recommend more the necessity of this device. It is the best and least expensive long term electrical insurance policy you can purchase.

http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_hw50c.htm

Many threads over the years discuss the need for this.

I recommend putting it on the shore power input to the generator change over switch if you have that switch in your rig such that such an event as you had will not also fry the change over switch.

I really urge everyone to install one of these.

Very sorry for your problem

We’re just a bit north of you in the other Carolina up 77. Please PM me if I can be of any assistance.

Bill

Jim01 · RV-Dreams Family Member

From someone who's has had this happen, be sure to check out everything electrical in your RV!!!! When it happened to us, it even burned the insulation off of some of the wires in the RV electrical panel, behind the circuit breakers. This wasn't found until later when we continued to have electrical problems.

Take the RV to a good repair facility and have every thing checked out.

Ever since, we've had a surge protector of some kind and never had another problem.

Good Luck,

Jim

TheHarveys · RV-Dreams Family Member

Another thing to check is your 50 amp cable. We had a similar situation occur to us and it ruined our convection microwave, burnt out a breaker in our breaker box and burned and melted the leads inside the plug on the 50 amp cable. We did not notice that until after all the repairs were made and we still had some electrical issues. We took the trailer back to the repair facility and they took the head apart on our 50 amp plug and found the burned and melted leads.
We had them replace the transfer switch (we never plan to use it anyway) with a progressive industries power management unit. Hopefully, that will prevent electrical issues in the future. They are not cheap...but neither is a convection/microwave oven!

MarkS · RV-Dreams Family Member

Not intending to sound too selfish but, thanks for starting and participating in this thread. I have been on the fence thinking the Progressive can wait a little while. I am spending quite a bit getting the truck ready to tow, license, insurance, brake controller, Smart ramps, etc. I decided to order the EMS today.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

For those newer readers who may be reading this thread, this discussion has happened many many times before on RV-Dreams over the years concerning the necessity of these devices. They do a lot more than just protect from surges. That’s why they cost upwards of $400 – but can be found for less.

We’ve said before, if you find a power protection device that costs $100 it doesn’t do what is needed to protect your coach like this device does. It may do something, but not complete as to required protection.

We’ve been thanked numerous times for encouraging people to get this installed after the device saved their coach from this type of unfortunate situation. Linda commented that we’ve never traveled and not have the Progressive Industries protect us from some “problem” in really new campgrounds and in older ones. It can happen anywhere, anytime and it will happen eventually. Happened once for us even at our home base.

Here is a link recommend in another thread for this device at a pretty good price, IMO.

http://www.dyersonline.com/progressive-industries-50-amp-permanent-electrical-management-system-with-remote-display.html

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill and Linda wrote:

For those newer readers who may be reading this thread, this discussion has happened many many times before on RV-Dreams over the years concerning the necessity of these devices. They do a lot more than just protect from surges. That’s why they cost upwards of $400 – but can be found for less.

We’ve said before, if you find a power protection device that costs $100 it doesn’t do what is needed to protect your coach like this device does. It may do something, but not complete as to required protection.

We’ve been thanked numerous times for encouraging people to get this installed after the device saved their coach from this type of unfortunate situation. Linda commented that we’ve never traveled and not have the Progressive Industries protect us from some “problem” in really new campgrounds and in older ones. It can happen anywhere, anytime and it will happen eventually. Happened once for us even at our home base.

Here is a link recommend in another thread for this device at a pretty good price, IMO.

http://www.dyersonline.com/progressive-industries-50-amp-permanent-electrical-management-system-with-remote-display.html

That's the exact one I just ordered........Should arrive Monday or Tuesday. Very best price, I've looked around.

cherylbrv · RV-Dreams Family Member

Just curious ... if this is such an issue and, as I see it, almost a mandatory requirement, why don't RV's already come equipped with them? (and, of course, one more thing I didn't know I didn't know about, and one more thing to add to my must purchase list).

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

cherylbrv wrote:
Just curious ... if this is such an issue and, as I see it, almost a mandatory requirement, why don't RV's already come equipped with them? (and, of course, one more thing I didn't know I didn't know about, and one more thing to add to my must purchase list).

Two manufactures I know of do have them as standard. But it’s all about the money. It runs the cost of the RV up a bit and that could turn people off to another brand. Naturally the salesman will tell you this power problem is a thing of the past at the same time they are telling you that you’ll be fine pulling that 17,000lb fiver with an F-150 SRW truck.

Dave Buck · RV-Dreams Family Member

I'm sure that it's a rare occurrence but when it happens it is a serious occurrence. Mine has saved me from a nearby lightning once and has shut down a couple of time due to low voltage. I bought mine a couple of years ago and I got it from Dyersonline.com as Bill and Linda said above they not only had the best price but they have free shipping. I just figure it's cheap insurance.

Dave

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

cherylbrv wrote:
Just curious ... if this is such an issue and, as I see it, almost a mandatory requirement, why don't RV's already come equipped with them? (and, of course, one more thing I didn't know I didn't know about, and one more thing to add to my must purchase list).

Less cost=more profit. Most of the higher end units have.

RVKevi · RV-Dreams Family Member

Here's another vote for the Progressive EMS! It saved our rig within a day of our moving into it! And we've found Progressive the most amazing company to work with. They've gone above and beyond a couple times for us. Their units have a lifetime warranty and they really back that up!

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

We have been in 2 Campgrounds in the last year that have had power problems. Both were pedestal related issues that the campground repair men had "repaired" earlier in the month after damage to them. 1 had 240 to both legs of the plug and the other had no ground. The Progressive never turned on the power both times keeping us safe. For $350 it's priceless.

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill and Linda wrote:

.............. Naturally the salesman will tell you this power problem is a thing of the past at the same time they are telling you that you’ll be fine pulling that 17,000lb fiver with an F-150 SRW truck.

Ah yes............A true salesman.

-- Edited by TRAILERKING on Sunday 9th of February 2014 09:28:50 PM

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

Alie and Jims Carrilite wrote:
We have been in 2 Campgrounds in the last year that have had power problems. Both were pedestal related issues that the campground repair men had "repaired" earlier in the month after damage to them. 1 had 240 to both legs of the plug and the other had no ground. The Progressive never turned on the power both times keeping us safe. For $350 it's priceless.

So in this case what did you do for power?? Try different sites? Run off generator?

DeeJee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks guys for you thoughts, experiences, advise and friendship! We'll be packing it up in the morning to take to the dealership after the adjuster comes out. Looks like it will be a week long problem with the winter storm coming through. So much for "home projects" this week and John is scheduled to travel for work late this week.

to be continued...

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

We moved sites.

When we pull into a site the first thing I do is hook up power and check the display, if its all good then I level, Unhook from the truck etc.

Its a pain to be set-up, plug in the power and realize it doesn't work. Kinda like realizing your power cord is 2' too short!

BillyandKris · RV-Dreams Family Member

We have an external surge protector now. We are getting a new camper soon and it will be 50 amp so we have to change anyway. Is external or internal hard-wired best? I have heard both sides on another forum. Keep hearing about this Progressive brand. We thought about ordering the camper with the thing hard-wired in, but wonder if that is best way to go???

THX

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

If the factory will hard wire it and mount the display then its easiest, but more expensive. It took about 2 hours to do ours and that included moving everything out of the storage compartment to get behind the walls.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

BillyandKris wrote:
We have an external surge protector now. We are getting a new camper soon and it will be 50 amp so we have to change anyway. Is external or internal hard-wired best? I have heard both sides on another forum. Keep hearing about this Progressive brand. We thought about ordering the camper with the thing hard-wired in, but wonder if that is best way to go???

THX

By getting the hardwired unit you can get an accurate, real-time read out in the coach of power conditions and specifically what caused it to turn off the power to protect the rig should that occur. It has a bypass relay in it such that if the unit should fail you can by pass it with the flick of a switch.

The biggest disadvantage with the Progressive Unit that plugs in outside is that it is outside and you can’t see the readout for one.

IMO, the hardwired unit’s advantages, we’ve had one for over 6 years, far out weights any disadvantages due to operational functionality and security.

BTW, if the factory won’t do it for you then you can do it yourself and naturally for less money. This isn’t hard. It’s worth it to get the Progressive Unit, IMO. I’ve had factory tours where the factory sales guy didn’t even know what an EMS was. And this was for more than one "high-end" coach.

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

Geez, with all this hype and praising of the Progressive Industries products............We should get contingency money from them. Hehehe.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

TRAILERKING wrote:
Geez, with all this hype and praising of the Progressive Industries products............We should get contingency money from them. Hehehe.

Bernie:

Well, not really I guess. But I sure make nothing from it or commenting about it here. But if you find me a product that does what this one does, exactly, let me know. There are ones that come close and do work pretty well. But not in all respects. YMMV naturally.

NWescapee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Question - for those of us who don't have a lot of electrical skills (none for me, Dale's a lot more intelligent in this area, but not an expert), how hard are these to install if you order one? Is it a DIY job?

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

NWescapee wrote:
Question - for those of us who don't have a lot of electrical skills (none for me, Dale's a lot more intelligent in this area, but not an expert), how hard are these to install if you order one? Is it a DIY job?

In my opinion, for the very average do it yourself person: Yes.

For the 50 amp version: Basically cut the cable going to the generator change over switch if you have one for example – connect three wires going into the EMS – three wires going out of the box and connect the grounds. A small cable, looks just like a telephone cable, plugs into the EMS box and runs to the readout you place in the coach if you get this option which is recommended.

Go here for the manual which contains installation instructions.

http://www.progressiveindustries.net/manuals/HW50C.pdf

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

Its definite a DIY, 4 screws on the lid, 8 wire lugs, replace lid, run wire for remote, plug remote in, turn power back on. Only took 1 minute to type it all out!

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

Pretty straight forward, comes with decent instructions. Make good clean terminations on the wire and ensure good tight connections. Just be neat and take your time.........Should have no problems.

**JUST MAKE SURE ALL POWER IS OFF**

-- Edited by TRAILERKING on Monday 10th of February 2014 09:10:50 PM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

OK, a bit of “down in the weeds” information that might be of help to those choosing this power insurance policy called an EMS.

There is the option for a timer to wait about 15 seconds or a bit over 2 minutes to turn on the power to the rig AFTER the EMS determines the power is OK. The EMS determines the power is OK, or not, in the milliseconds. The delay timer option at 2+ minutes is to allow the air conditioners or heat pumps time to let everything in the compressor sort of settle down before a too quick restart. Some air conditioning units have this turn on delay built in so you could move the jumper in the EMS, which determines 15 seconds or 2 plus minutes, to the 15 second position. I wouldn’t. I’d keep it at the 2+ minutes. Here’s why:

If the power goes out from the grid or the EMS cut the power because of issues with the power grid, such as outside the campground, when the power comes back on there will be a lot of things turning back on simultaneously – like the whole campground or maybe large parts of a city. That puts a bunch of “hits” on the power line voltage as things start up, especially electric motors. Let everyone else take all those hits. Put the delay in the longer 2 min+ position, put up with the slight delay and allow enough time to make sure everything with the power is good and stable before the EMS turns your rig back on.

Just my way of doing it based on too many years of dealing with these kind of power issues.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill is definitely right with his last comment. Such "hits" could possibly result in a number of low voltage situations and low voltage is destructive to any electric motors in a system. Just think of all the products in one's RV that has motors or compressors in them.

Terry

DeeJee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Well at least the wait isn't sooo bad. We left the hotel for a cabin at another local campground. Perfect place to wait out a winter storm:) It is a nicer park but $150 more a month without cable. Oh well, our's will be nicer when they finish the upgrades.

John talked to the service manager today, they did start the inspection. So far they just checked the things we listed to confirm they are damaged. I'm just afraid something will be missed and we'll have trouble later. We're just praying they find everything effected!

Are these things ever "totaled"?

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

DeeJee wrote:
Are these things ever "totaled"?

Being that new I would doubt it unless there was some sort of fire and/or burnt and melted wiring within the structure. Otherwise mainly changing out or repairing appliances.

Sushidog · RV-Dreams Family Member

For those with 30 amp electrical systems, Progressive Industries also makes a 30 amp model which is quite a bit cheaper (under $250). Here's a link: tweetys.com/electrical-management-system-hardwire-30.aspx

Here is a 30 amp EMS that actually incresese your voltage up to 10% when encountering low voltage. Has anyone used one like this? http://www.dyersonline.com/surge-guard-30-amp-voltage-regulator.html Impressions?

Chip

-- Edited by Sushidog on Wednesday 12th of February 2014 07:27:46 AM

TRAILERKING · RV-Dreams Family Member

http://www.dyersonline.com/progressive-industries-30-amp-permanent-electrical-management-system-with-remote-display.html#

This is the better EMS for 30 amp.

-- Edited by TRAILERKING on Wednesday 12th of February 2014 08:08:32 AM

-- Edited by TRAILERKING on Wednesday 12th of February 2014 08:09:22 AM

-- Edited by TRAILERKING on Wednesday 12th of February 2014 08:11:59 AM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Sushidog wrote:
For those with 30 amp electrical systems, Progressive Industries also makes a 30 amp model which is quite a bit cheaper (under $250). Here's a link: tweetys.com/electrical-management-system-hardwire-30.aspx
Here is a 30 amp EMS that actually incresese your voltage up to 10% when encountering low voltage. Has anyone used one like this? http://www.dyersonline.com/surge-guard-30-amp-voltage-regulator.html Impressions?

Chip

-- Edited by Sushidog on Wednesday 12th of February 2014 07:27:46 AM

Chip:

The second device you mentioned is an autoformer. It can sometimes boost low voltage up to an acceptable level.

http://www.dyersonline.com/surge-guard-30-amp-voltage-regulator.html

This is not as such an EMS, an Energy Management System, as we have been discussing in this thread. This one does indeed boost voltage but will not protect the RV like a true EMS.

From the manual: “The (SGVR) is not a protective

device and the connected RV will not be protected from damage

should an open neutral develop during the course of operation.

An autoformer is sometimes a good thing to have in addition to an EMS if you go places where low voltage is a common occurrence. They work well, but are a bit expensive and heavy – especially the 50 amp ones.

There is a good thread going on about automormers right now that addresses this device as might be helpful.

http://rv-dreams.activeboard.com/t56676813/hughes-autoformer/

Good you brought this up.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Terry and Jo wrote:
Bill is definitely right with his last comment. Such "hits" could possibly result in a number of low voltage situations and low voltage is destructive to any electric motors in a system. Just think of all the products in one's RV that has motors or compressors in them.
Terry

More “down in the weeds” info for those that want it or – why we say what we say:

Terry is quite correct in his comments about motors – there is another side to this motor thing that causes “hits” or voltage spikes that I alluded to in the previous post which can really spoil your day.

When power goes out and motors, like fan motors in air conditioning units or coolers, like in the campground office, or water pumps that are still turning for a bit after power goes out; those still turning motors become electric generators. Those “electric generators” are now putting voltage on the power lines as long as they are spinning. If the power comes back quickly before those motors, now generators by definition, stop spinning you get two sources of power into the rig and guess what – you can get a big voltage spike and other bad things I won’t go into.

So, if you keep the EMS “turn back on delay” in the longer 2+ minute position you can avoid many of those bad things.

There are reasons for the electrical and other suggestions we make. But if we gave all the background as to why most would get lost in the weeds - and bored. But there are reasons why some “suggestions” are made. They are based on facts as much as possible.

For your consideration as they say. ‘Just trying to provide info that might save some a bunch of trouble.

DeeJee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Good Evening fellow RV'ers. Just wanted to update you on our status, we've been back in our home for a week now. They repaired the hot water heater so we could live in it until the insurance companies approve the other repairs. Once they do that they will order the parts which looks like have already dropped the ball and not faxed the estimate to the insurance. John was in town today and tried to get things rolling again.
So far everything seems to work fine. Funny how this little home can feel so homey!! I missed it!