F350 vs F450 - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Jsova · RV-Dreams Community Member

F350 vs F450

Jsova · RV-Dreams Community Member

And that means a F350 dual 6.0 turbo Diesel shouldn't pull it? Which goes back to my first post......

-- Edited by Jsova on Saturday 6th of July 2013 07:59:03 PM

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

Welcome to the site!
You may need to narrow down your ToyHauler search before buying a truck. Some of the larger toyhaulers can easily go into the 23k-lb range or more. Have fun shopping!

Jsova · RV-Dreams Community Member

Its a Forest River "XLR"

386X12HP - XLR Thunderbolt Fifth Wheels

www.forestriverinc.com/ToyHaulerFifthWheels/Thunderbolt/default.aspx

Dry Hitch Weight 2,435 lbs. (1,104 kg)
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 13,028 lbs. (5,909 kg)
GVWR 18,000 lbs. (8,165 kg)
Cargo Carrying Capacity 4,972 lbs. (2,255 kg)
Exterior Length 42' 4" (12.9 m)
Exterior Height 13' 2" (4.0 m)
Exterior Width 102" (2.6 m)
Fresh Water Capacity 100 gal. (379 L)
Gray Water Capacity 54 gal. (204 L)
Black Water Capacity 54 gal. (204 L)
Awning Size 18 ft.

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

There is 18,000 pounds right there when loaded....

lmcallis · RV-Dreams Family Member

From the Ford "2006 RV and Trailer towing guide" max Fifth wheel towing

6L V8 turbo diesel F350 with 3.73 or 4.10 rear end DRW GCWR 23,500
Max 5th wheel weight
4x2 Regular cab 16,600 Supercab 16,300 Crew Cab 16,200
4x4 Regular cab 16,200 Supercab 15,800 Crew Cab 15,600

6L V8 turbo diesel F350 with 4.30LS rear end DRW GCWR 26,000
Max 5th wheel weight
4x2 Regular cab 19,200 Supercab 18,800 Crew Cab 18,600
4x4 Regular cab 18,700 Supercab 18,300 Crew Cab 18,100

Those are the numbers from Ford for the 2006 models, likely the same for your 2005. Hope that helps in your decisions.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jim,

On paper, your truck should be able to pull 18,000 lbs. Now, let me give you my perspective, which is of one who has driven professionally with farm trucks, bobtail commercial trucks and commercial 18-wheelers and who has a healthy respect for safety in towing.

Towing a trailer is one thing, but safely handling a trailer also includes being able to control the trailer even in strong side winds and when braking. Yes, most trailers have brakes, but on occasion, something may happen to cause the trailer brakes to not work, such as a blown fuse.

You are being wise in looking at the different options to safely handle your trailer and that is very good. Now, in our case I like to have some "cushion" in the weights so that my truck is actually more truck than I need instead of being overpowered by a heavy trailer. Our Mobile Suites 38-footer has a GVWR of 18,500 lbs. Our truck is a 2008 Ford F450, which is one of your other considerations. The 2008 F450 has a GVWR of 14,500 lbs, which is more than the newer ones. Both the 2008 and the newer ones have a GCVW of 33,000 lbs.

I suggest that you only use the manufacturer's "towing weight" as a very rough guide in choosing a truck. Look at the truck's GCVW. Then add the truck's GVWR and the trailer's GVWR (18,000 lbs on the Forest River) together and see how close you come to that GCVW for the truck. Then, keep in mind that your truck may likely never reach its GVWR, so it would be a good idea to weigh your truck with all your normal cargo, a full load of fuel, and all the passengers and pets that you might have along. That "actual" weight added to the GVWR of the trailer would be a better number to use.

Terry

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

And on the trailer weights, that dry tanks, no water, fuel, etc. You can estimate your pin weight to be 20% of the GVWR, so your in the 3600lb range easily. I believe I would start at the new 3500 Dodge, or older F-450 and go bigger from there.

Jsova · RV-Dreams Community Member

Ok

I have a 2005 F350 crew cab 8 foot box dually 4x4 turbo 6.0 Diesel that pulls a 34 foot bumper pull (8700 GVWR) trailer now.
I've have pulled in the past (not with this vehicle) but lot of trailers, 6 horse gooseneck. short cargo ect...Understand about trailer brakes...

A toy hauler is a lot of weight,
[If I put a motorcycle in her and with all the dogs (dog cages ,food, ect....) we sometimes take to flyball racing events] n

I'm figure I'm going to be past their minimum dry weight, which now gets me in an argument (light weight trucks can pull anything) with other half about what the F350 can/should do.
Also will have to get a 5th wheel hitch to add in there...(more weight)
By paper I should be alright...

So I was really wondering if the 450 is more the "norm" on a trailer for this type of sett up..

Should I be sticking/or can I get by with, the 350, or should I really be looking at getting a 450...Maybe a new Dodge :)

Howard · Host

According to the 2005 Ford Towing Guide, your truck has a maximum fifth wheel towing limit of 15,600 pounds and a Gross Combined Weight Rating of 23,500 pounds. And that 15,600 has to be reduced by passenger weight and cargo weight in the truck. With your 2005 F350 and the toyhauler you are considering, you will easily exceed both of those ratings/guidelines.

So "yes", in my opinion, you will need a truck with much more capability and safety margin for the fifth wheel toyhauler you have selected. I would suggest something that has a Gross Combined Weight Rating of at least 28,000 pounds, but I personally would feel more comfortable with something with a Gross Combined Weight Rating of 30,000 pounds or more.

Just my opinion. Hope that helps a little. smile

Jsova · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thank you Howard and Terry

I'm beginning to swing my needle towards a 450.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jim,

If that is in your mind, use the internet to look for some used ones. When we were researching, a new F450 would have been somewhere around $65,000 to $75.000, depending on model and amenities. We ended up getting a one year old one for about $36,000. That made it a lot easier for us to afford our first choice of a fifth wheel.

Here is one at Diffee Ford in El Reno, OK. (Our favorite car dealer.)

2008 Ford F450 with about 67,000 miles.

Terry

Jsova · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thats a nice one.. will have to consider it

I found this one........
www.classychassistrucks.com/in_stock.htm

Is this over kill? :)

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Well, I guess one could say it was never "overkill" if the one seen makes one drool.

The only thing about that one, in my view, is that the side boxes to each side of the fifth wheel "should be" able to clear the underside of the fifth wheel's nose. To me, the big issue would be price as hauler beds tend to be more expensive than straight bed boxes.

Terry

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jsova wrote:
Thats a nice one.. will have to consider it

I found this one........
www.classychassistrucks.com/in_stock.htm

Is this over kill? :)

We have one and in our opinion it is not over kill anymore than an F-450 is over kill if it meets your needs. That's why we purchased it. One of the biggest advantages of this Hauler Bed is that we will never have an issue with bed rail to truck clearance issues; not to mention lockable storage compartments – lots of room and flexibility.

Newer trucks, especially the 2011 and beyond as well as the F-450’s, all have higher bed sides and the trucks are higher as well. This condition puts the truck bed rails and the 5^th wheel “plate” in very close proximity. They can hit even coming off an interstate ramp – especially in a turn. That is one reason we got a hauler bed when we purchased a 2012 truck. Now, no matter what trailer we get, we’ll not have to worry about this and I don’t have to “lift” the trailer to provide proper bed rail clearance. I also have the storage room for all my tools etc. and don't have to leave them "exposed."

We love ours and the construction quality and “purchase experience” was second to none. We would do the same thing again in a heartbeat after a little over a year and 20,000 miles of RVing with the truck / RV Hauler. BTW, this addition did nothing to void the OEM warranty. This is a factory approved (Ford, GM or Dodge) upgrade.

JohnD333 · RV-Dreams Community Member

Jim,

I have viewed this forum on and off for about 6 months. I joined just to give you a heads up from my personal experience. I am active in Ford and Carriage/Cameo forums.

Ignore the manufacturers' towing spec for 5th wheels. "Truth in Towing" legislation was again deferred. Read the fine print and those. Tables all say in fine print do not exceed axle ratings OR GVWR's of truck.

My 5er is 15999 GVWR. 2011 450 is GCWR of 33k. However, GVWR is 13,300. Unfortunately, a 450 with options, hitch, me 50# over presumed 165# driver, fuel over 3 gallons, wife, dog, tools a d stuff in cab weigh in on scales just under 9700#. That leaves room for a pin weight of only 3600#. I have to tell you that i am often over this if i fill my fresh water tank on my 5er or am not very careful in loading it. I would be dead without air bags. Empty ride in today's dually pickups is much nicer, but you pay a heavy price in rear end sag when loaded.

I tell you this, because i believe what you have is not much better than my 2011 450 pickup. That said, 2013 and 2014 model 350 duallys pickups and 450 pickups can be delivered with 14000 GVWR. Since you have a tow rig, if it were me, i would take delivery with the existing rig and see how well you like performance fully loaded, and visit a friendly CAT scale fully loaded as you would for a trip. I don't think you will like it, but armed with the truth, you will know that today's 350 and 450 pickup models won't deliver much more.

I had a 2008 450. It was a beast for towing, and you would be happy with its towing performance. However, that 6.4 engine/transmission combo, while a beast, was discontinued after 2 years. Ask any diesel mechanic - it was a nightmare to work on, but it kept everyone busier than they had been for years during some very tough economic times. I would stay away from the 2008-10 6.4's unless you can find one that has emission deletes and are comfortable with the lack of support that can come from that.

You are more in the 550 range and given the thoughts on the towing shell, a great candidate for it. This is a cab/chassis model so you don't pay for a pickup bed that you toss. You can order the 450 in the cab/chassis and get the great old (2008-10) 12.5k rear axle and the wide track, small turning radius front end if you like.

You don't have the Tow Vehicle that will make your towing experience a breeze with the toy hauler you have in mind, but you are close enough to not put yourself, family, or fellow drivers in grave danger by doing so. Try it out. then think of what you are about to spend on a new 450 pickup that has just marginal increased capacity. think about the $10k+ hit you will take if is not enough and you need to trade up prematurely.

Every salesman will tell you this will pull that, but you are the one to pay the price for buying too small of a truck, or too large of a 5er.

-- Edited by JohnD333 on Tuesday 30th of July 2013 05:32:09 PM

-- Edited by JohnD333 on Tuesday 30th of July 2013 05:50:41 PM

Jsova · RV-Dreams Community Member

Hi John

Well I bit the bullit and I have all ready purchased a used 2008 F450 (classy chassy conversion) and that toy hauler....It has 26k on it now after driving it back from Florida....I still have the 2005 F350 it's for sale only 78k on it.

I was also looking at the newer ones also, maybe in the future. I keep the 550 in mind...I kinda like the looks of the rv haulers

Going on our first road trip in eight days.

What are emission deletes?

JohnD333 · RV-Dreams Community Member

Jim,

Nice utility in that box - you will love the extended range tanks. you have the great rear end and 14.5k GWWR from the factory. Could not see if you have the air suspension that may increase GVWR, bjt certainly adds ease of use and makes empty riding a little more refined.

Emission deletes remove all emission equipment. Not for the faint hearted or anyone driving in CA.

Look at Ford forums for more info.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums

Etc

Safe travels.

Jsova wrote:
Hi John

Well I bit the bullit and I have all ready purchased a used 2008 F450 (classy chassy conversion) and that toy hauler....It has 26k on it now after driving it back from Florida....I still have the 2005 F350 it's for sale only 78k on it.

I was also looking at the newer ones also, maybe in the future. I keep the 550 in mind...I kinda like the looks of the rv haulers

Going on our first road trip in eight days.

What are emission deletes?

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Just as a thought on John's comment about the F550 being a possibility. Back in 2008 and 2009 when I was researching for our tow vehicle, the F450 actually had better weight capacities than the F550 did, which was a surprise for me. I also think that the frame and suspension are entirely different as well, thus it will ride a lot differently. It might even effect the height of the fifth wheel hitch as well, so if you look at that as a possibility, look them over carefully. I do know that there are those that say the cab/chassis units aren't as good.

Terry