Dutchman ....Infinity 5th. wheel - RV-Dreams Community Forum

hoppers · RV-Dreams Community Member

Dutchman ....Infinity 5th. wheel

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

Dutchman has traditionally been a builder of low end trailers, mostly for weekend use. I can't say if that is still true but I don't remember a full-timer with a Dutchman. If the same length unit is much lighter than similar units from more common full-timer brands than the bones are not there for the heavy usage of a full-timer.

Jim01 · RV-Dreams Family Member

Can't give you any recent experiance with Dutchman, but years ago we had one of their trailers. It was definitely an entry level trailer and not suitable for full-timing.

Most of the wooden framework at that time was made with partical board and it did not hold up well at all.

LIke Bill says, I don't know anyone who is full-timing in a Dutchman. My advice would be to check it out very carefully.

Jim

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

We saw some yesterday at Camping World's big Open House. We were definitely not impressed. Everything we saw screamed "CHEAP!"

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

HHHHhhhhmmmm.........I feel the same as others it is a low use weekender type or an extreme budget unit........that being said if the budget is real short or you need to get your feet wet first going with a low price older unit older unit is more than ok...(been there done that) and still do every now and then when I find a creampuff. there are nice gas type class A units out here for 10 k .....there are some beautiful 5vrs year round units in the 6 to 10 k range up here.

I feel sometimes people get trapped into keeping up with the Jones.....I'd rather just stop by for dinner with them and say nice place!!!

Depending on the region your in there are deals to be found......remember if you buy a unit from a dealer you pay very close to NADA pricing which means your paying a premium..............private sales and getting an aftermarket warranty seems to come up cheaper by a mile.

if your in the south look up north....camping is done snow is coming.....they want to lose the unit rather than store it!!!! happens every year up here.....sell the camper ,sell the boat.......gotta buy a Snowmobile and 4 wheeler for the winter!!!

hoppers · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thanks all for your replies and information, as always.

Ckerr · RV-Dreams Family Member

We looked at the Infinity. While it is manufactured by Dutchman it is a complete departure from their previous product lines. I'm still on the fence about how suitable it is for full time living, but it is definitely not entry level and nothing like the rest of the Dutchman lineup.

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Terry....did my homework a little late........my apologies for looking at the past problems.......thenew units construction is right up there with all the higher end fulltime units........

The link is fom its debute....RE : RV news

http://www.rvbusiness.com/2011/05/dutchmen-debuts-infinity-luxury-fifth-wheel/

The dog is rolling on the floor, Im not sure if she has a flea or she is laughing because she caught me with my foot in my mouth again!!!!!!

I will Definitely buy dinner upon our meeting out there!!!!!

Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry

-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Tuesday 16th of October 2012 10:43:40 AM

hoppers · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thanks as that is what my wife and myself thought too....I was a lil setback by some of the emphatic directness I heard with my question but also appreciate all feedback.

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hmmm, after reading that press release I wonder if we saw the same trailer. I didn't pay attention to the wood or the hinges, but to the cardboard walls. Yes, cardboard. On one of the trailers a part was missing, and I could see what the wall was made of. It sure looked like cardboard, and when I pressed on the wall in another place it yielded easily.

The crowned ceiling in the bedroom is an interesting marketing concept. Yes, ceiling height in the center (side to side measurement) might be 6' 8" but as one walks around the bed the ceiling height is rather less than that. Several high end coaches advertise bedroom ceiling height as "AT LEAST" (some number), which makes more sense.

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

I actually spotted one at campers inn today and turned around and went back to look at it......(hate salesmen) but he left me alone when I said Im just looking and then laid on the ground to see under and started poking and proddding.......nice coach for the price range , nice build

rvingft · RV-Dreams Family Member

Have you checked with RV.org? They offer a database you can purchase BEFORE you make a mistake buying a cheap trailer thinking it is high quality. I paid $160+- for a database that covers thousands of trailer models from 2000 to 2011 - and I can look up the model ratings any time I need to.

I don't sell it, or get a kick back, I am just a very happy user of RV.org's independent rating system. They do not take any advertising, so are not influenced to rate one manufacturer higher than the other.

One of THE most popular brands on the market today is not rated very highly (on a range of 1 to 5 stars) it rates a 3, yet thousands of people buy them every year. RV mechanics will tell you they are ALWAYS servicing this brand and their users forum is full of complaints ... yet you can see them sitting on RV lots everywhere.

The ONLY (that I know of) 5-star rated fifth-wheel is still - after all these years - the New Horizons built in Kansas. Jack Meyer on this forum is an ambassador for NH and he can share TONS of info with you on quality ratings.

Racerguy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Many times it comes down to Budget.Not everyone can afford a New Horizons even at the used unit prices.Same with some DRV models, so they get the best they can for the budget they have available.I'm not advocating trying to full time in a vacation rated coach but many people are successfully full timing in mid range(example..Montana,Ceder Creek) units.

hoppers · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thanks for your additional feedback especially you Mike. Also for the feedback in the independent rv.org which I will certainly do before any money spent. Relative to the cardboard walls...pardon me for my current ignorance...what is typical for quality 5th wheels? Believe me, I take allll your input as our search continues for the right 5th wheel for us. From a design standpoint this was clearly my wife's favorite and to this point the only one she would consider "her home on wheels".

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

space craft is mfg. in Concordia Mo.

link to there website http://www.spacecraftmfg.com/

Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry

-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Sunday 21st of October 2012 09:11:14 PM

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Terry,

I don't know if one can say there is a "typical" RV. They will vary in so many ways in quality, look, and build. The top of the line would likely be a completely custom made such as New Horizons, but nothing less than an Ford F450 has enough "weight capacity" to tow one of those. There is also a company called Space Craft that custom builds, but from what I hear, they primarily build for carnivals and other types of shows. Following those would likely be the DRV Suites models (Elite Suites, Mobile Suites, Tradition) with the Elites being the highest quality, then the Mobile Suites, and then the Tradition. They are not "custom built" but one can have custom modifications done to them.

I can't speak to the other brands, but there might be some that can do some custom modifications. As far as the look is concerned, one just has to spend time actually being in the unit and not depending on pictures and brochures. There are a lot of good fifth wheels out there, but one just has to consider what one wants, and then go looking. RV shows are easiest, but you don't get to see all the brands and models that way.

I always suggest that a primary need for a trailer is to have a good system of frame, axles, wheels, and suspension. The heavier the better as it serves as the very foundation of a vehicle that will experience something like an earthquake every time it is moved.

With my wife and I, we looked at coaches in different ways. I looked at the foundation and the various systems of electrical and mechanical devices. She looked at the floor plans and the arrangement of storage, shelves, etc. We each had the option of nixing a brand, but we made sure that the reason was sufficient for the other to agree. If I didn't like a frame size, the coach was no longer considered. For the most part, she looked at and decided on the inside stuff and I with the outside. Then, we made sure that each of us could agree with the other.

Terry

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

Terry, you asked about the construction, and I'm the one who mentioned the cardboard walls. While high price doesn't guarantee high quality, low price will guarantee lower (NOT low) quality. It simply comes down to the money. If a builder has $30,000 in the coach, it will have to sell for more than that for there to be a profit. If another builder has $60,000 in their coach, they will have to sell it for at least $30,000 more than the first builder just to make the same profit.

I'd suggest that you go find a DRV, New Horizons, or Spacecraft product on a dealer's lot. Look carefully at the fit and finish. Ask the salesman to remove the cover place from an outlet and look at the wall material. While you've got the cover plate off, push on the outlet and see if there is any movement. Ideally, the outlet box is attached to a framing member, just like in your house. Some builders have been known to put the outlet between the studs, which will mean movement of the wall whenever something is plugged in or unplugged there. Once you know what the high quality coaches are like you will be in a better position to evaluate others.

I'd suggest that your first "cut" be the frame and suspension. A Heartland Landmark doesn't weigh quite as much as an Elite Suites of similar size, so it can have a slightly smaller frame and lighter capacity axles.

For the second "cut" I'd suggest that you decide on your absolute minimum standards in various areas that are important to you. Obviously, being able to walk around in the coach without banging your head anywhere is important, so let the height of the tallest member of your family be the minimum interior height. If that person can't go everywhere without ducking the coach is stricken from further consideration. Do you really need a granite countertop, or will a lighter (and cheaper) one do? Do you want a double-bowl sink in the kitchen, or will a single bowl do? Do you want and exterior television set? What about an exterior kitchen? Will you be going to places that are hotter or colder than average? If so you will want double pane windows and upgraded insulation. With the thicker walls, DRV shines in this area. If not, you have more choices.

Terry and Jo have divided the work in a fairly typical fashion. Jo Ann and I have done pretty much the same thing. Together we've decided on the class of RV that we want for our full-time coach. I focused on the mechanical and structural aspects, while she is focusing on floorplans and overall size. We've narrowed our choices down to a few coach models, and when the time comes to buy we will have those models ranked and a good idea of what we should pay for each of them.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

I'll add to David's comments. I don't think there is a dealership network for New Horizons or Spacecraft RV's. I think both are built at their factories and all by special order. New Horizons are built in Kansas, but I have no idea of where the Spacecraft brand is built. So, if one wants to inspect one of those, they would have to find a used one for sale somewhere or go to the factory.

Terry

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

Looks like they are in the process of moving. They used to be closer to Emma and farther from the Interstate. Their address puts them just outside of Concordia. The satellite view on Mapquest doesn't show anything there, but that image may be almost a year old. I didn't pay much attention to that area the last time we were up there, but I'll take a closer look next time.

I taught Marsha Trautman's kids years ago, and whenever we go up that way we make sure to eat at Biffle's Bar-B-Que in Concordia.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Both Spacecraft and New Horizons are only sold factory direct. Neither are large-production run coaches, so there are not that many used ones on the market. There are only 2 used Majestics on the market right now. One is a toy hauler.

As I've often said, there is no "magic" to RVs. Most are poorly built if compared to residential housing or automotive standards. RV appliances, are, without exception, of low quality - IMO. You get what you pay for. You are not going to get a well built, luxury coach for 50K. It is just not the way it is....

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

http://www.horizonsrv.com/contact-us

hope this helps......you might want to message Jack mayer.....he is a rep and a member on this forum....he also has listings on used units

Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry

-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Tuesday 23rd of October 2012 06:10:38 PM

NWescapee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Terry and Jo,
You mentioned the following:

I always suggest that a primary need for a trailer is to have a good system of frame, axles, wheels, and suspension. The heavier the better as it serves as the very foundation of a vehicle that will experience something like an earthquake every time it is moved.

Just curious, can you share your minimum requirements for full timing?

Thanks

Ckerr · RV-Dreams Family Member

Where in Kansas are New Horizons manufactured? We're currently in Coffeyville and took advantage of visiting the NuWa factory in Chanute and would be interested in visiting the New Horizons facility if it is in reasonable driving distance.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

New Horizons is in Junction City, just to the west of Manhattan. Right on I70.

We are at the factory right now. There are several used Summits (the narrow body model) here. There are no used Majestics, but there are two on the market that are "on the road". One has an HDT that is available with it. They are listed on the New Horizons website here.

My 2010 Majestic is sold. A very nice couple got the deal of a lifetime, and they are thrilled.

My 2012 Majestic will be for sale in late 2013, or early 2014. Anyone interested should contact me now - I am going to presell it. And, of course, it could always be sold early. It will be a very nicely priced, REALLY high end and optioned coach.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

NWescapee wrote:
Terry and Jo,
You mentioned the following:

I always suggest that a primary need for a trailer is to have a good system of frame, axles, wheels, and suspension. The heavier the better as it serves as the very foundation of a vehicle that will experience something like an earthquake every time it is moved.

Just curious, can you share your minimum requirements for full timing?

Thanks

Dale and Ruth,

This is what Jo and I looked at. Naturally, not everyone will agree, but the following is the least that I would accept for us.

The frame would have to be at least 12" in size. Most of those out on the market that are 12" are I-beam type frames. If I remember right, there was one brand out there that had a 12" frame, but instead of an I-beam, it had a "double-box" frame. Basically, those are two 6" box or rectanglular beams welded together. Similarly, the Mobile Suites and Elite Suites models from DRV Suites have what is referred to as a "triple-box" frame. It appears to be two 6" rectanglular "boxes" plus a 3" below them. Here is an image of a DRV frame:

I think the minimum size for the axles of a two axle trailer should be at least 7000 lb axles. If the trailers get up over 16,500 lbs, I would prefer that they have 8,000 lb axles. Now, should one be looking at toy haulers or other trailer with three axles, then they wouldn't have to be quite as heavy as 8,000 lbs each.

While I am not too familiar with many of the suspension systems, whatever is used must be heavy-duty looking with very sufficient welds of the spring hangers to the frame. You will find that there are differenty types of suspensions. Many just have springs and shocks, others have air-bag technology, and there are some others of which I know very little. One of those that I don't know much about is called MorRyde IS. (Or something like that.) There are a number of RV owners that speak very highly of that system. I think Howard and Linda had it retro-fitted on their Cambridge.

Wheels and tires make up the last of the "foundation configuration" and one really needs to research those, especially the wheels in relation to the type of metal used. At any rate, I don't like the idea of Chinese made tires. There is no sense going cheap on price with the risk of getting cheap quality. A lot of the 38' and larger fifth wheels have 17.5" wheels instead of the 16" wheels. With any size, one wants to get the tires that have the highest load rating that one can get, which are using a letter designator for that load rating. There are others here that can give you a lot better dissertation on both wheels and tires.

I hope this gives you an idea of my thinking.

Terry

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

When we were trying to decide what class of RV to have for our full-time coach we toured the DRV factory. Very impressive! As a result of that tour, and the other two that we were able to fit in on that trip, we decided that if we were to choose a 5'er it would be a Mobile Suites (used, of course). We got there just as a new frame had been pulled in, so we got to see the construction before anything else was added to it. We also got to see the Level-Up system without anything else in the way, and that went a long way toward making us use the DRV as our standard for comparing others.

We've not seen the Spacecraft or New Horizons factories, since we've settled in a DP. I wouldn't mind seeing them someday, but that isn't much of a priority now.

VanMar · RV-Dreams Family Member

Terry,

You didn't mention brakes. I have heard drum brakes maligned by some on this forum. Personally, four wheel disc brakes have been a priority on our last three vehicles. I'm seriously thinking about upgrading to discs if the 5er we get doesn't already have them.

Vance

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

From a running gear perspective here is what I consider best of breed at the moment. You can upgrade almost any towable to this.....depending on the weights you may not need to go as heavy on the axles....

- Mor/Ryde IS suspension
- 8K axles. With MR they are not really conventional axles.
- Dexter disc brakes.
- Tucson ABS actuator and controller with ABS on the trailer brakes. If you have air brakes on the tow vehicle then a BluDot actuator.
- 17.5" Alcoa wheels with Goodyear H-rated G114's

VanMar · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack Mayer wrote:
- 17.5" Alcoa wheels with Goodyear H-rated G114's

H not J ?

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

VanMar wrote:
Terry,
You didn't mention brakes. I have heard drum brakes maligned by some on this forum. Personally, four wheel disc brakes have been a priority on our last three vehicles. I'm seriously thinking about upgrading to discs if the 5er we get doesn't already have them.
Vance

Vance,

My comments were in relationship to "foundation" for the RV. But, in answer to your question, I would have to say disc brakes as well. My days of being a "shade tree" mechanic went out with the advent of electronic ignition back in the '80's. When I did do some of my own work, I hated working on the drum brakes and trying to get them adjusted right. Disc brakes are just so much simpler should I have to do my own work on them.

Terry

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

VanMar wrote:
Jack Mayer wrote:
- 17.5" Alcoa wheels with Goodyear H-rated G114's
H not J ?

The J would be as good or better in most instances. So if you can find a J with a speed rating of at least 70mph then I would say J is fine. But I like the Goodyear 114 - they have proven to be excellent in service, are backed up by Goodyear, and have a high enough speed rating.

Pflug · RV-Dreams Community Member

I came across this post through a search and realize it is a little out of date. We just purchased a 2012 Infinity 3870FK. We searched and searched and found this to be the perfect fit for us. It has a lot of quality built in and the best floorplan I've ever seen. I love the huge front KITCHEN! Here is a standard Features site that may address some of the quality questions for those searching in the future: http://infinityrv.com/index.php?p=features
I realize some of the Dutchmen line are "lesser" models. The Infinity line is completely different. I hope you did not let the negative comments sway you from looking into it more for yourself. I would however love to hear any positive or negatives about this unit so that we know what to expect or be careful about.

Tammy Hassenpflug
Ford F-250, 2012 Infinity 3870FK,

Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry

-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Saturday 1st of June 2013 04:30:12 PM

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Tammy,

First of all, welcome to the RV Dreams forums. This is a valuable source of information with a lot of folks here with knowledge of just about every kind of RV. Glad to have you as part of the "family."

My biggest concern that you may want to look out for is that this model seems heavy for a 3/4 ton truck (the F250). According to that link you provided, the GVWR is 15,500 lbs. (That is the weight of the "empty" weight added to the cargo carrying capacity.) While the F250 may very well "pull" the trailer, I would be concerned with a 42' "sail" behind a 3/4 ton, especially with regards to cross winds and meeting semi's on the road and getting gusted by their passing.

Also, be very careful that you have enough braking power, especially should the trailer brakes fail for some reason. Sometimes, all that takes is a blown fuse. I've known of folks with shorter trailers, albeit heavier ones, not being able to stop for a sudden changing light on a lightly wet street, and they were towing with a 1 ton F350.

Terry

Pflug · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thanks for the good advice. We are concerned about the 250 being enough truck as well. it has been our primary horse hauling truck and we generally pull a 32 foot horse trailer with it. I think we will have to keep our eyes open for something a little bigger..but for now it has to do. We will not be moving it but once every few months so maybe we will have to be careful to travel when the wind is blowing the right direction, lol.

Tammy