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I agree and am not taking issue with your experience.We never changed the big “Cat’s” that were running at constant speed (generators mostly) until they needed it by “examination.”
As a discussion only, I wonder what, if any, difference there is with these smaller diesels as opposed to the constant RPM / loads put on fixed operation engines.I would think the constant RPM / load conditions would be more ideal as the engines were specifically designed for that type of operation.
FWIW, the oil analysis thing is a very good thing IMO.Most aircraft recips use that as a measure of “how goes it” with the engine; but not as concerns oil changes as such.My aircraft was changed every 25 hours as recommended and it made it way past the usual “top" overhaul point.Not the TBO, the top overhaul.I never exceeded the recommended TBO. It was a turbo and that put additional heat into the engine as you know, even with the intercooler.
Regardless, good perspective and insight
Bill
Editied to correct spelling - again ):
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Tuesday 9th of October 2012 12:06:12 PM
OK, got a couple of questions on our F450 and the manual isn't much help.
We'll have about 6000 miles on the truck when we pass back near our buying dealer in a couple of weeks and I am considering whether to go ahead and have our initial service while we're there. The manual suggests an oil change interval of 5000-10000 miles based on severity of driving but also says that the monitoring system will let me know when to change the oil. Pretty much all of our driving has been towing the rig which is about 21,000 pounds loaded I'm guessing until we can arrange a wheel by wheel weighing. Should I go ahead and change based on mileage or just wait until we get down to our wintering location in FL and then get it changed before we head out again the end of February? I'm planning on driving the truck every 2-3 weeks for 20 or 30 miles to keep batteries charged and the like.
Second; I've seen some recommendations about putting addititive in the fuel tank while a diesel is "stored". Since we'll be driving periodically is this a good recommendation? We'll get to FL the middle of November and will be doing the every couple of weeks drive of the truck until the end of February when we head out again.
Given the monitoring system looking at the oil and periodic driving; I'm leaning towards skipping the oil change until mid February and just making sure the tank is full while the truck is mostly sitting there…but as this our first truck/diesel/RV figured getting more opinions is always good.
Ah, the infamous campground discussion: oil changes.Everyone has an opinion, even the people who designed the engines.Just kidding, a very good question
First, additives:As long as you are not in very cold climates – like below zero all the time as one example, or the truck is sitting for extended periods of time – like months – you don’t need any fuel additives.If you did the dealers would be selling and pushing it.(Think warranty issues for them.) Honestly, you don’t need anything under the conditions you describe.
Second oil changes:It is my opinion that oil is the least expensive preventive maintenance you can perform on an engine.I change mine at 5,000 or so miles which is about half-way through the factory recommended (according to the computer) change cycle.If I didn’t drive 5,000 miles in one year I would change it at the one-year point regardless as has been recommended by more than one knowledgeable maintenance facility.If I can’t get it done till 6,000 miles I know the engine will not blow up.But I strongly feel, on pickup truck class diesel engines using dino oil (i.e. not synthetic), this is a good rule to follow when under more severe conditions, like towing.
My last GM diesel, used mostly for towing, went 100,000 miles on dino oil before trade without one issue and was not using any oil at all using this 5-6,000 mile rule.Obviously, when you change the oil, change the filter; otherwise you’re just dumping a quart of dirty oil back into the fresh oil you put in.
Back in a past life, I ran lab samples on oil from large stationary engines. The powers that be were concerned with several criteria and would order changes when certain limits were met. Things like ash, shear, coolant, acidity and several others. They did not change oil on a whim as each engine required 8 barrels of oil. Back then, I would pull a sample from my pickup and test it. Never once reached the "change level or contaminant level" the company used. I changed oil in my pickup twice during that time. Once at 66K miles and the last on at 134K miles and traded it off at 145K. I used it to commute daily, 45 miles each way and all highway. I figured it was it was because the engine reached operating temperature every time it was started so there was no condensation.
I use the recommended change for my pickup, and feel like I could save money if I used Blackstone labs for sampling. However, at 130K miles on this one with no issues I guess it will be alright.
I get a kick out of the kids at the oil change place, when he comes to the window and says "you need to change oil more often". I ask him how he knows, and he parrots the mileage is about 8,000 miles and it should be at 3,000. That is when I ask him what the ash content was? How much fuel is in it, what is the shear strength? Any metals? About then his eyes glaze over and he stammers a lot.
As a discussion only, I wonder what, if any, difference there is with these smaller diesels as opposed to the constant RPM / loads put on fixed operation engines.I would think the constant RPM / load conditions would be more ideal as the engines were specifically designed for that type of operation.
Editied to correct spelling - again ):
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Tuesday 9th of October 2012 12:06:12 PM
One has to suppose the constant load/speed/conditions of a stationary engine would be better than the driveable ones in oour pickups. In taking daily readings on the fixed engines, I was quick to notice ANY variation in operating parameters. The varying conditions of a pickup used in towing would appear to put extra loading on the cooling ability of the oil. The work expected of the small diesels is extreme. I know, they are rated for XXX horsepower, but to go from 50 hp to 300 in an instant has got to place extraordinary demands on them.
As a discussion only, I wonder what, if any, difference there is with these smaller diesels as opposed to the constant RPM / loads put on fixed operation engines.I would think the constant RPM / load conditions would be more ideal as the engines were specifically designed for that type of operation.
Editied to correct spelling - again ):
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Tuesday 9th of October 2012 12:06:12 PM
One has to suppose the constant load/speed/conditions of a stationary engine would be better than the driveable ones in oour pickups. In taking daily readings on the fixed engines, I was quick to notice ANY variation in operating parameters. The varying conditions of a pickup used in towing would appear to put extra loading on the cooling ability of the oil. The work expected of the small diesels is extreme. I know, they are rated for XXX horsepower, but to go from 50 hp to 300 in an instant has got to place extraordinary demands on them.
Indeed, that was my line of thinking and I suppose why I have thought the “early” oil change wasn’t such a bad idea.To get the kind of horse power and, more importantly, torque, out of these relatively small displacement engines and have them actually run trouble free for 100,000+ heavy duty miles is, IMO, a pretty good engineering accomplishment.
I am sure the oil at the factory recommended (by the truck computer) is still effective in all regards; I just liked giving the engine the best possible chance for “no failures.”Hence I change it sooner than I believe is actually necessary.Then again, in 30 years of fleet type service I’ve never had an engine failure.
Thanks all; lots of good input there. I will skip the fuel additive for our planned winter period in FL and will think on what to do on the oil. Based on both inputs here and from the IRV2 forum where I also hang out I may just go ahead and do the first change early since the wear in period for the engine probably puts more metal into the oil than later in life and then follow the computer recommendation after that…although there's a lot to be said for the relatively inexpensive 5000-6000 change interval Bill recommends to give the engine the best chance for long life I can.
I also carefully watch the RPMs after watching Howard's issue a couple of months back with perhaps over revving the engine and make sure that I keep rpms well below the 4000 redline on the tach. I noticed that when in hilly country the cruise control tends to shift down from 6th to 5th then 4th going up or down hills and gets the RPM up to the 3100. I have taken to dropping out of cruise control on hills and just letting the speed gradually die down if necessary. On the downhills I haven't noticed as much downshifting when not in cruise control; I just let the speed slowly edge up to 70-72 over maybe 30 seconds then a fairly decent brake down to 55 or so rather than trying to maintain a constant speed up and down. I'm still learning how to best drive the rig but am feeling a lot more comfortable than I was on the way home from Kansas in June.
As far as the oil change, oil is cheap - engines are expensive!
As far as it sitting for awhile, top off the tank, add an additive, standadyne, diesel power service, etc. These will help keep water and algae under control. Cover the tires if you can, tires are made to roll which releases compounds in the material to keep them "healthy", keeping them out of the sun helps this as well.
Ditto::::...........I was thinking the same ...I use Diesel Fuel doctor for algae & sludge and try to keep the tanks topped off to keep condensation down.
Not doing it and ending up with clogged injectors will always happen at the farthest point out in the middle of no where with a service company that will take 4 days to finally get it done...
and for oil Every six months whether it needs it or not oil is cheap and so are filters.....motors start in the 25k range!!!!!!
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If you have a new 6.7 diesel engine, you do want to use a fuel additive. Pick up Pm22A at the Ford dealer. Besides raising the cetane rating it is a water seperator to help keep water out of your fuel system, and it helps lubricate the fuel pump. This is very inportant on the new systems with the high pressure they are running. Also drain your water seperator once a month to keep it clean. As far as the oil change, I would do it. As others have said, oil change is cheap, engines are not.
