Gate guard jobs? - RV-Dreams Community Forum

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

RE: Gate guard jobs?

mailman01 · RV-Dreams Family Member

MyOLDRV.com is written by a fellow that is presently a Gate Attendant in Texas. This fellow is brilliant and pulls NO punches in his description of the duty. His perspective on life and his ability to relay this to the reader is riveting....

mailman01 · RV-Dreams Family Member

MyOldRV.com is written by a fellow that is presently a full time gate attendant somewhere in South Texas. He is brilliant and riveting in his writting and is very descriptive of the job and his life experiences. Addictive.

Loydstuts · RV-Dreams Family Member

I think LOMA is Lomarentals.com If this doesn't work, then google loma flowback and it will come up. FHU is full hook up, usually Water, Electric, & Sewer

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

We started full-timing over three years ago. My husband, Bob, is drawing retirement, but I'm not of age for that quite yet. For the last three years we've worked & traveled all over creating guest services guides for RV Parks. We've met many wonderful people and seen many fascinating places. Moab, Utah is one of our favorite places to play!

While this line of work did take us all over the country, it also ate a good portion of our profits. And, in this economy, selling ads to pay for the guides was getting harder every year. People are hurting and being very careful how they spend their advertising dollars.

We toyed with the idea of workamping, but most of these are slave labor. they want you to work in exchange for a site, laundry & propane. Big deal. I have a washer/dryer and an all electric coach so that did not give me much of a benefit.

When we learned of the gate guarding jobs we became very interested. First, they pay very well. Some gates pay more because they are busier.

After looking at every company we could find, we decided to go to with Gate Guard Services. They seem to have very happy workers and good equipment.

We just got to the Carrizo Springs yard on Monday and over the holidays we are subbing for a single lady at a gate near Asherton. Next Tuesday we have our own gate lined up. it will be a very busy gate, with two RVs working shifts. And the pay will be more since it is very busy. But we are looking forward to banking the money we will be making instead of putting it all in our fuel tank.

We will also be able to get away several hours a day if we wish since there are two units working the gate.

Hopefully we will like it. Time will tell.

Texas TomT · RV-Dreams Family Member

We are south of you right now, outside Catarina. Do you know where your next gate job is (next Tuesday one)?

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

Tuesday we are to start at Faith Ranch, the main gate. What location are you at?

Texas TomT · RV-Dreams Family Member

I haven't heard of that one but there are so many ranches around you could never be familiar with most of them. We are on the Rocking-5 Stanley ranch. You go 12 miles south of Catarina to Espejo gates road, turn right for 4.7 miles then left for 2.5 miles. When you get there, use your garmin or whatever to obtain GPS coordinates and send them to me. We are located at:

28.15707°N and 99.67922°W

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

We'll give you our coordinates as soon as we get out there. I've added your blog to my blogroll at http://blueheron98.wordpress.com.

From what I understand, to get to our gate we'll go about 22 miles past the GGS Carrizo yard then when we come to a dirt road we'll go another 13 miles to the main entrance. At this point... that's all I know.

What gate guard company are you with?

Texas TomT · RV-Dreams Family Member

We are also with GGS and have been on this site since September. Am guessing that you have met? Roger, Kellie, and/or David by now?

There are lots of dirt roads or mud roads right now, so will wait until I get your coordinates to pin you down.

-- Edited by Texas TomT on Saturday 24th of December 2011 05:14:55 PM

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

Oh yes, it is a muddy mess right now. We have been initiated big time with all of this rain.

Yes, Roger has been our contact. We came in on Monday to the Carrizo yard and when Roger told us about this Faith Ranch job... we were interested. They need to get the other team out as they have decided to travel now. This is a gate with two RVs on duty. One is a single and the other (us) is a couple.

Roger's wife, Billie, needed someone to sub for her at Walk-A-Jam ranch where she is a GG, so she could get away for Christmas. So we said we'd help her out. We're staying in her trailer since our rig would not fit. Ours is a Travel Supreme Select 43' Class A diesel. They will start repairing the roads at Billie's gate on Monday. It's a mess here! We have to park our car outside the gate. The ruts are too big and soft and water filled for our car to negotiate.

Billie will be back on duty Monday at noon. Then we will get ready for our new gate.

Merry Christmas to you & Donna!

Texas TomT · RV-Dreams Family Member

A very merry CHRISTmas to you both. Try and stay dry as you can and I hope that your next site is better equipped for your long MH. Stay in touch and let us know where you end up.

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

Roger says we'll fit at our new gate. It also has 50 amp electric on a pole instead of needing a generator. That will be nice.

Texas TomT · RV-Dreams Family Member

Ahh, thats very kewl. If you have been to our blog you have seen our set up here.

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

Yes, I saw your set up. I love the light pole set up! Your road looks like it's in good condition too. Not a rutted, muddy mess. How are you doing with all of this rain? Is it very muddy at your gate?

Texas TomT · RV-Dreams Family Member

All of these roads are hard packed caliche roads. There is a film of mud on the roads but they dry very fast once the rain stops and then the big trucks just drive over them and smoothe them out again. So, its sloppy but no ruts or holes collecting water. Now, OFF the main road is a different story since noone installs roadside gutters.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hey guys, I have read the various blogs you all have, or that I could find. I understand the nature of the job. One thing I have no feel for is how many of the gates are multi-rig gates. I'd sure like the extra money for the extra reigs if I was going to sit there. What are the odds of getting something that has more than a single rig on it?

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

I know what you are saying about no roadside gutters. Some of the roads we've seen are dug out 3-4 feet below grade.

I'm hoping that since our gate is a main gate with several behind us that it will be a pretty good road. Although, I do know they have to work the road over so the other RV can get out and we can take their place.

Oh well, for the money, it's all good. Sure beats selling ads in this economy!!!

We are looking forward to the seclusion and being able to bank some money.

We'll let you know our location as soon as we get out there. At least the sun is shining today and the wind is blowing. Drying out this mud is a good thing.

Texas TomT · RV-Dreams Family Member

biggrin Yes, I welcome the sunshine to at least dry out the road surface mud. The wind helps dry them out as well. It's very chilly out with the 20 mph winds from the north plus the windchill factor. Traffic is very slow so staying mostly inside. Just updated our blog to cover the past 2 days activities...check it out.

Merry Christmas to you both and to ALL of our RV-dreamers. God bless.

Texas TomT · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack Mayer wrote:
Hey guys, I have read the various blogs you all have, or that I could find. I understand the nature of the job. One thing I have no feel for is how many of the gates are multi-rig gates. I'd sure like the extra money for the extra reigs if I was going to sit there. What are the odds of getting something that has more than a single rig on it?

Well, we would all like to have multiple rigs for the extra money but that is not a foreseeable occurance. Best you can do is ask your company for a location with multiples and see what you can get. We started here with one casing rig, several tank batteries, and a production plant. Then we had 2 rigs then 3 and then 4 active rigs and it got really busy. The extra money was great but then one by one the rigs moved to other places. We are now down to one rig and they are leaving tomorrow. We will be staying here since the land owners agreement with the oil company is that as long as there is ANY traffic on the ranch there WILL be gate guards. There are more holes to be drilled and fracked here so it will stay busy for years to come.

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

You are a wealth of valuable information Tom. I'm learning a lot from you and your website. I'll go check out your updates.

Glad you have some quiet time to enjoy.

Merry Christmas aww

netters · RV-Dreams Family Member

I have a question for you...this may have already been asked but I haven't seen it yet. If they pay you by a 1099, is the 1099 in your name or your spouses? My hubby is on Social Security and I'm not. Is it possible to have the 1099 in my name so it doesn't affect his Social Security? Thanks!

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

In our case, the 1099 comes in our Corporation name. We pay me a paycheck from our corporation since Bob is on SS.

This also helps build up my SS $$$. When we get our paycheck, it comes in the Corporation name.

smile

3fortheroad · RV-Dreams Family Member

mailman01 wrote:
MyOLDRV.com is written by a fellow that is presently a Gate Attendant in Texas. This fellow is brilliant and pulls NO punches in his description of the duty. His perspective on life and his ability to relay this to the reader is riveting....

Thanks for the link, informative and hilarious at the same time. The boating accident is a classic.

Ron

Casey · RV-Dreams Community Member

1099's r a good way 2 write everything off, if u still have a perment res;just about everything can be written off, and just put some where around 17.5% away, so all u have to do to sent them a check at the end of the year and they go away untill next year. Great money maker, or saver onc u learn how to work it.

If the state u r working in taxes u r income, keep a perment address somwhere else, and that income in not taxable, only the income from the state u r working in. From some that does taxes.

u get nothing for nothing there r trade off's in everything, and thids is a good to make and save some serious money.

MaryBee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Tom, you have peaked the interest in my husband and I for Gate Guarding!

We live in Michigan and are in the process of going full time and expect to be ready in a few months.

Because we are here in Michigan, do you suggest we be down in Texas in order to apply for a position or do you
think we can apply now while we are still here in Michigan and getting ready?

Gate Guarding wasen't exactly what I was thinking we would do while workamping, but it does sound interesting
and we are willing to give it a try and see how things go.

3fortheroad · RV-Dreams Family Member

I posted something similar on another forum and kind-of got roasted.

Just a few things to consider. These are just my observations from reading other post and forums. We have no prior experience at this type of work. Its all about choises, thats what makes the world turn. It would be pretty darn boring if we were to all think alike (Even though I think some want that to happen) OUCH, BETTER NOT GO THERE,..... and do the same thing day-in and day-out.

Yes you could earn $125.00 and up per 24 hr day. $125.00 divided by 24 hrs = 5.21 hr. At least one person on site 24/7 for how ever long gate is open. Looks as though in most cases you are a long way from nowhere. Wind means dust, and a lot of it, rain (If they get any) means mud, and a lot of it. Then there are the scorpions, rattlesnakes, bugs, coyotes, and the occasion band of Illegals passing through. I have read that if you light-up your rig like a small city at night the illegals will generally pass you by. On occasion you might be asked for food or water but that is probably rare for obvious reasons.

On the plus side you get a site with E/W/S the possibility of socking away around 3k and sometimes more a month. For now its not for us, but who knows maybe someday.

Ckerr · RV-Dreams Family Member

Seriously, it is to each their own. What is great for some folks, really sucks for others...

Personally I would do the gate guard gig. I like to read, sew, watch movies and enjoy the solitude. So long as I had internet connection and cell service I'm good. I'm good with late nights and can sleep in small amounts.

However, my fiance would HATE it! To much sitting in one place for him. He would feel trapped, so we won't be doing any gate guarding.

Life is about finding what works for each (or in this case BOTH) of us.

Loydstuts · RV-Dreams Family Member

If you haven't done so already, go over to MYOLDRV.COM and look through both the forum and Andy's blog entries staeting around Mar 2011. A lot of your questions will be answered and more. Above all, this is a lifestyle choice, at least for me. I did have to present myself to the company to take the TX level II security test (open book) and give fingerprints and photos. Come on down and play with us :)

PIEERE · RV-Dreams Family Member

This probably great for a couple; however I am single and believe even if i qualified it would be very boring for me. I get enough seclusion when not working. I really thought the rate of pay was better; $5.21 an hr as stated above and your site w/ all the dust, noise and poisonous little creatures.

I thought Amazon and other employs did not pay enough comparable wages at todays costs-of-living, I was wrong again. If being between a rock and a hard place; maybe would reconsider. Too each to their own. I will continue with my theory for living! Pieere

Workinrvers · RV-Dreams Family Member

Ken and Mary,

We just finished our first stint of gate guarding. Check out our blog starting November 1st and you can read about some of the day to day stuff.

We are taking our time traveling back to Indiana to start a more conventional work camping gig at a KOA on April 1st.

This is our first year of work camping and traveling so we are "learning as we go".

Gate guarding is an easy job that both can do. We enjoyed it and was able to fatten the bank account in a short amount of time. That is what appealed to us the most, we made in one week more than we will make in a month doing our summer work camping job. Sure you can divide the daily rate by 24 hours but you certainly are not working most of those 24 hours and are free to do most any other activity your heart desires as long as you are available to answer the driveway alarm and attend the gate.
Yep it was dusty and sometimes muddy, other times it was very peaceful with some wonderful sunrises and sunsets.
We never encountered (or even saw) any illegals. We had no snakes although there were reports of them at the drilling pad 1/2 mile away. Other gate guards have not been so lucky and there are a few stories of snake encounters.
The workers at the site as well as the ranche owner were all very cordial and polite, Texas hospitality at it's best!

This job is not for everyone but we enjoyed it and will probably be doing it again.

Phil

MaryBee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Workinrvers wrote:
Ken and Mary,

We just finished our first stint of gate guarding. Check out our blog starting November 1st and you can read about some of the day to day stuff.

We are taking our time traveling back to Indiana to start a more conventional work camping gig at a KOA on April 1st.

This is our first year of work camping and traveling so we are "learning as we go".

Gate guarding is an easy job that both can do. We enjoyed it and was able to fatten the bank account in a short amount of time. That is what appealed to us the most, we made in one week more than we will make in a month doing our summer work camping job. Sure you can divide the daily rate by 24 hours but you certainly are not working most of those 24 hours and are free to do most any other activity your heart desires as long as you are available to answer the driveway alarm and attend the gate.
Yep it was dusty and sometimes muddy, other times it was very peaceful with some wonderful sunrises and sunsets.
We never encountered (or even saw) any illegals. We had no snakes although there were reports of them at the drilling pad 1/2 mile away. Other gate guards have not been so lucky and there are a few stories of snake encounters.
The workers at the site as well as the ranche owner were all very cordial and polite, Texas hospitality at it's best!

This job is not for everyone but we enjoyed it and will probably be doing it again.

Phil

Thanks Phil.

I am not too worried about the snakes, heck I get those here in my yard every summer because we live close to the river!

It can get dusty and muddy in campgrounds sometimes...that I can deal with too!

My question is... in order to get the ball rolling to becoming a Gate Guard, do you think we would need to head down to Texas or can we stay here in Michigan and get the ball rolling on a possible position?

Workinrvers · RV-Dreams Family Member

Ken and Mary,

Sent you a pm as well but, to answer your question, yes you can, at least with Gate Guard Services anyway. They sent us a packet several weeks before we lauched. We were able to have all the paperwork stuff and license tests done prior to arriving in Texas.

Phil

MaryBee · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks Phil for the great info! Sent ya a PM! :)

rutsue · RV-Dreams Community Member

We were told by someone in one of the gate guarding companies that it's difficult to transfer the licenses from one company to another. Tom you have done it a couple of times, what does it take? I think he was just blowing sunshine up our skirts. We have taken the test with one company and got our fingerprinting done, but we have been sitting for the last 3 weeks. We plan on taking whatever job comes first at this point. The company we took the test with says it takes two weeks for the finger print investigation and test stuff to come back and there is no rushing that. From what I've read though on these forums, that doesn't matter. People are starting to work pretty much immediately if there is a site for them.
Another question I have is what are you all using for internet access in southern TX. We use the internet alot and need more than 5 GB a month. From what I have read, sounds like even satellite internet will slow you down after so many GB of use in a time period. We can get unlimited from Millenicom, but they use Sprint network or Verizon. According to the coverage maps Verizon doesn't get coverage and Sprint does. I know Tom says his Verizon works where he is in Catarina, but I'm wondering if anyone else has any input.

Sue

MaryBee · RV-Dreams Family Member

rutsue wrote:
Another question I have is what are you all using for internet access in southern TX. We use the internet alot and need more than 5 GB a month. From what I have read, sounds like even satellite internet will slow you down after so many GB of use in a time period. We can get unlimited from Millenicom, but they use Sprint network or Verizon. According to the coverage maps Verizon doesn't get coverage and Sprint does. I know Tom says his Verizon works where he is in Catarina, but I'm wondering if anyone else has any input.

Great question! Would love to know the answer too! Maybe Phil can chime in and tell us if he has Sprint or Verizon.

I have Sprint now here in Michigan and teather with my Smartphone. Once we get on the road I am considering getting the 20gb Millenicom plan as that uses Verizon towers I believe.

Hopefully with my phone on Sprint and the Verizon plan thru Millenicom I will be covered for most areas. :)

Workinrvers · RV-Dreams Family Member

Sue,

I think the company you were talking too was just wanting to hang onto you as an employee and not lose you to the competition. The licenses are handled by the state and once you are licensed you are listed on their website. They are correct that it takes 2 weeks or more to process the background check and even longer before you will ever see your license. I have not heard of any companies waiting to hear from the state to deploy a gate guard to a site though.

We were on our gate for 2 months before my license was mailed. DW still has not recieved hers, we figure it is because the 1099 was in my name and ss#.

Best thing to do would be to call some of the other companies and see what their status is. Let them know you have submitted all the paperwork with XX company and they have you sitting when you are wanting to work.

AT&T seems to work the best in the oil fields for cell phones. We have a MIFI using Sprint towers and had a passable signal. We could not get an EvDO signal in the area we were in but had 5 bars of 1xRTT using a Wilson Booster so the internet was not lightning fast.

We use this Wilson Booster with the antenna on a telescoping pole and the cable ran into the 5er through the rear slide seal between the slide and the wall. Without the booster we only had 1 bar of cell phone vs 4-5 bars and 1 bar of internet vs. 5 bars.

Phil

Texas TomT · RV-Dreams Family Member

It has been interesting reading all the new posts lately. DW and I just finished a 5-1/2 month gig in S. TX near Catarina and are now enjoying some downtime. We have been visiting family in the Hill Country and we are now in Fresno, TX at our daughters house. Tomorrow we leave for Louisiana aqnd Mississippi for a short time. Then we are going back to the ranch we just left, but not as gate guards. The owner wants us to manage the operations there until late May. We will live in his house and still get paid $200/day.

Reference the state license: When you change companies it is normally their responsibility to fill out the state form (online) and they pay the fee for the transfer. If they won't/don't do this, it's a no-brainer to do it yourself...you just need their company "code number" and you can write it off as an expense.

In the 5-1/2 months at our gate, we never had an immigrant approach our gate/camp. Yes, we have seen them but only in daytime and then we call the BP and they are there quickly. Some get caught and some boogie into the brush. Snakes? they only come out twice a year for a quick meal (mice, etc.) and go back into their holes. They were never a threat but seeing a 5-6 ft. rattler' can make you more aware that you are in their world. If you follow our blog then you know wehat other critters live there.

If any questions post them here and I will try and answer them more quickly. Have a great day All.

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

We have been between Artesia Wells & Encinal, Texas since December 28th and have see no illegals and no snakes. We've heard coyotes but not seen any. We've also seen Javalinas in the distance. Lots of Roadrunners around and they eat snakes, scorpions, spiders and mice so we like them! We bought snake guards to wear if snakes become a problem.
Also, we use the Wilson booster. Our external antennea is mounted on the top of the ladder of our motorhome. We have a Cradlepoint router plugged into the Wilson and our Verizon air card is plugged into the router. The router broadcasts a wireless signal to all of our wireless devices, including our computers, Nook, and cell phones and printers. Without the Wilson I doubt we could do Internet or make calls very well. It does make a difference!

Casey · RV-Dreams Community Member

blankstare Hello my name is casey and as a couple we are looking to do gateguarding and would like some help how to go about finding theses jobs and there locations. We have been reading alot of blogs but not a lot of information on how to contact or what state are available for this. thank you for your help and have a blessed day. evileye

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

I know Texas has openings, I don't know of any other states. North Texas has slowed down a lot so right now it's south Texas... that's where the jobs are. If you go to my blog, http://blueheron98.wordpress.com you can click on the page that says Gate Guard Info. There you'll see a list of gate guarding companies. We work for Gate Guard Services. Just start contacting these companies and inquire about their application procedures. That's what we did.

Good luck!

Vicky

rutsue · RV-Dreams Community Member

We came down to work with LOMA, but missed the test and class due to some mechanical things we had to take care of. I didn't know that they had a class and everything. I knew the company sponsored you to take the test but I thought it was like a drivers test and you just read a book and took the test whenever. So when we got back in touch with LOMA they had 14 couples ahead of us and didn't want to give us the test. So then we tried Site Watch, GGS and J and G. J and G is the one that we took the test with. Talked to Patty twice at GGS and she keeps saying she will send out a packet but we haven't received anything yet. Then Site Watch took some info and keeps telling us to call back but they supposedly only have 12 hour available but then they don't call back. It'll be 2 weeks since we took the test so Monday we are going to hit all the gate guarding places we can get ahold of and I'm hoping we get something. I'm thinking that the snowbirds will start leaving in the not too distant future and gates will start opening up. Plus I keep hearing there are new sites going in sooo.....

Sue

rutsue · RV-Dreams Community Member

Finally worked out that we got a gate with LOMA. We have been here for about a week and are getting settled in. Still having some trouble getting our license transferred but if we have to we'll retake the test with LOMA. We are located south of Los Angeles, TX.

Sue

Workinrvers · RV-Dreams Family Member

congrats on getting a gate Sue. Our gate was also south of Los Angeles on 469 at Plochek Rd. (between the 2 sets of S curves before you get to 624). Cotulla is a nice little town with a lot of amenities, nice Super S store and the folks at the P.O. and Ace Hardware were very nice and helpful.

Phil

MaryBee · RV-Dreams Family Member

I finally called GGS and talked with Peggy yesterday to ask about them sending a packet.

I was told that I had to come to Texas to apply for a position so I guess they are not sending out packets anymore :(

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

Perhaps they quit sending out packets because a lot of people were not returning them. This job is not for everyone. If people were just inquiring for more information and dediced it was not for them and did not return their packets, that was a lot of wasted effort on GGS's part. Just saying...

Yesterday marked our third month on our three-day job biggrin Actually, when they sent us out here they were told it would be for three-days. Yesterday we were told by our GGS guy that the Company Man said we were being released on Friday morning (3/30). When one of the CM's came through the gate he did not know of this and was distressed. Now we are not sure how much longer we'll be here. Could leave today... could be Monday... could be Tuesday... could be another couple of weeks. Such is the way of things in the oil & gas fields.

Just gotta go with the flow!

Vicky

Workinrvers · RV-Dreams Family Member

One thing for sure in Gate Guarding Vicki, tomorrow may mean today, yesterday, next week or next month! biggrin biggrin biggrin

vickyheron · RV-Dreams Community Member

Workinrvers wrote:
One thing for sure in Gate Guarding Vicki, tomorrow may mean today, yesterday, next week or next month!

Boy that is for sure! Now we may be here till Monday, Wednesday, or April 30th... take your pick evileye

rutsue · RV-Dreams Community Member

Phil,

Just figured out today about packages and Ace. Didn't realize that the post office wouldn't accept packages that aren't sent thru the postal service. Never thought about it being a problem.
Gate guarding does take some getting used to. Being at the ready 24/7 takes some mental adjustment. The work isn't hard per se, but not being able to go anywhere together and figuring out what to get where takes some time. Finally got our internet up and running. Ordered a signal booster so hope that will help with the speed. Also ordered dish network. Not all Dish distributors know what's up. I called 3 numbers and they kept referring me to someone else. I was looking for the pay as you go where you can shut if off whenever and reconnect whenever. First person I talked to said we had to have a regular set up and a contract etc and have someone come here to the RV to set it up. $130 mileage fee. Then they decided they didn't want to honor my debit card and only a cc. Somehow I ended up calling the number on the winegard website. No fuss, no muss!! They just mail out the receiver, we hook it up and they activate it remotely. And I can pay with a debit card. Would have saved time if the others I had talked to knew what was up. maybe since we are new to RVing AND new to gate guarding it is a bit more of an adjustment. Sure beats hubby trucking and being gone most of the time! We get to live together again! We are at a site that has two well sites on it, but they are only working one at a time. So looks like we will be here til June or later.

Sue

Workinrvers · RV-Dreams Family Member

Sue,

sounds like you are settling in and adjusting well. Get to know the company man/men and he/they will take good care of you. The rancher is another one to get to know and be extra friendly to. Don't be afraid to ask the company man if you would like something done (water or grade the road, level or clear your pad better, wooden skids to walk/stand on etc.) worst they can say is "no".
We used to give out some treats to the crew also, we gave out mini candy canes at Christmas and Rudee would bake cookies or make some rice crispy treats occasionaly and I would take a platter down to the bunkhouses.

Best of all, enjoy your time at the gate, it is a real unique learning experience.

Phil

-- Edited by Workinrvers on Wednesday 4th of April 2012 09:19:56 PM