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hello, i plan to start FT RVing next Autumn in a luxury toy hauler. Love the floor plans they are coming out with, but there are a few things i want to have done locally so I can design for 2nd bedroom, bathroom in the garage. I have drawn up my custom plan and it basically entails having the manufacturer NOT put in certain items before delivering to my dealer, i.e. toilets, carpeting, lounge seats, TVs, etc. i don't want to buy an RV with things i don't want in it or intend to replace. so many of the ones for sale at dealers come 'loaded' with things i don't want or need.
has anyone had experience ordering a somewhat 'stripped' down rv or toy hauler. was it worth it. cost differential? good, bad experience?
If you're wanting to do a whole bunch of modifications over the standard floor plans…then your options for who to buy from get pretty slim and pretty expensive. We seriously looked at a DRV Elite Suites…and found out they would do little to no customization out of the factory. The factory told us that any customizations would have to pretty much be done by the dealer and the dealer said that they (and they indicated most dealers were similar) were not really interested in doing the modifications. So in that case you end up having to do most of the modifications yourself or at least be the general contractor and find people to do the various things.
I'm pretty sure that buying one without carpets, TV, toilets, etc is going to be hard from any of the 'non-custom' builders.
So I think you're really looking at a pretty expensive rig to get something like this…which means custom build and in that case you might as well just have them do it. Unless money is really tight…you're not going to really save a whole bunch of money IMO by leaving stuff out…even if you can convince the builder to leave it out.
New Horizons, Foretravel, and Spacecraft will pretty much build anything you want in…they do have some 'standards' but almost anything is really available if you're willing to pay for it.
Personally…I think if you could buy a stripped down one…and if you were proficient enough to put all that stuff in you could probably save some money…assuming you could get the builders to leave it out and give you a reasonable credit for it. The trouble is…most builders have a production line and aren't really interested in say leaving the carpet and toilet out…and even if they agree they'll give you a $200 credit on the price for it.
If you really want to build custom…you've either got to pay for a custom build…or if budget precludes the $200K fifth wheel that results in and you can only afford say $100K…then you're going to have. to figure out how much it will cost to rip out the crap you don't want and replace it. If that comes to $20K then you need to look at 5vers in the $80K range, buy the floor plan you mostly like and pay to rip out/replace/remodel to get it where you want it to be.
Most RV manufacturers are VERY inflexible (except those whose market niche is custom rigs ... with a stiff premium for their "flexibility").
I ordered a fully optioned (checked every option box) Durago Gold from K-Z (their current top of the line). Placed the order in January, with a forecast delivery of "late March". Wife decided she wanted a residential refrigerator, so in mid February I told my dealer we wanted to make that change ... the factory said it was "too late" and that if I wanted to make that change we would "go to the back of the line". I guess that was supposed to pressure me to take the original order, but I just told them, OK, put me at the back of the line because I want a residential refrigerator. Then "the factory" told me that they would do it, but that I couldn't make any other changes. I was paying cash, and hadn't written the check, so I helped them understand who was serving whom, since they were clearly having a problem understanding that. Things smoothed out after our "fellowship" discussion.
Interestingly, my decision to go to the back of the line, resulted in me getting an early 2017, instead of the late 2016 I was in line to get. Dealer did not change the price at all, probably because we had our earlier "fellowship" discussion.
I have since learned that most all are equally inflexible.
-- Edited by RonC on Sunday 9th of October 2016 02:40:27 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Sunday 9th of October 2016 02:59:08 PM
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Ron and Janice
2016 Ford F350, King Ranch, DRW, 4x4, CC, 6.7 PS Diesel, remote control air lift system
2017 Durango Gold 381REF, Lambright furniture, MCD shades, morRYDE IS, 8K Disc brakes, GY G114 LR H Tires, 27,320 lbs CGVW
What Neil said is spot on based on what you want. With the exception of the custom builders RV's are built on a production line. Everything is bought in "bulk" off a preset list of options and I know from experience "if it slows down the production line we won't do it." True even if you go to the back of the line in most cases. "It depends."
One of the reasons the custom people charge so much is because they are building a prototype every time they build a rig. So they get little economies of scale as to production throughput. The cost of labor is such that they have to make up for the inefficiencies by charging a bundle for a rig that the crew doesn't have memorized and can't be paid for as "piece work" which is how many companies operate. Custom can't be done that way.
We got some minor changes on our KZ Escalade (a really good rig back when they built them last decade.) But they were really minor in the big picture. After going all over Elkhart and other various places in the US it was clear to us if we wanted what we wanted I would either have to be a GC and totally re-furb our Escalade or go to a custom shop. As I really didn't want to spend a year, or more, doing it myself we went custom - which along with design took a about 3/4 of a year but that's another story. LOL At least I had time to do other things and had my old rig except for 4 winter months.
I'm not saying custom is totally worth the price. But most just won't do it to any real extent. Leaving things out doesn't save any real money as the production line, mass manufacturer, has already committed to purchase X amount of parts and adds already in exchange for bulk pricing of a lot of different components.
YMMV but Neil's comments and mine are general enough to give you an idea of what your up against.
But if your interested in a luxury Toy Hauler you might take, or send, your plans to New Horizons, Spacecraft or Forks and see what they say. Neil's comments on pricing definitely in the mix.
thanks everyone for replying in such detail AND, unfortunately, confirming what i suspected but i always find it much better to listen to the folks who have direct experience! and i don't feel i have enough changes in mind to go full custom. its also helpful to satisfactorily eliminate a line of exploration to concentrate on more viable options. SOOOO, i am now firmly committed to finding one here dealer loaded , taking out what i don't want and selling to other rvers (with luck) and getting the mods done i really want. ya'll have been great!!!
Space Craft will build to any extent you want. A box with wheels is about the base. Everything else is an option. There are standards but they are more suggestions to the buyer, like hot water heater, sinks, cabinets, etc.
thanks everyone for replying in such detail AND, unfortunately, confirming what i suspected but i always find it much better to listen to the folks who have direct experience! and i don't feel i have enough changes in mind to go full custom. its also helpful to satisfactorily eliminate a line of exploration to concentrate on more viable options. SOOOO, i am now firmly committed to finding one here dealer loaded , taking out what i don't want and selling to other rvers (with luck) and getting the mods done i really want. ya'll have been great!!!
I can almost totally assure you the direction your taking will me much less expensive - and less time consuming all things considered.
One of the other things you get with a custom build…even if you choose say a New Horizons and don't actually customize a thing…is some better quality stuff. Their frame is stiffer and heavier than most, internal cabinetry is real wood instead of plywood with either thin veneer or plastic wood grained surface. Better quality appliances to some extent and a lot more standard features that a non custom builder will charge you extra for…hydraulic levelers and auto leveling vs the manual leveling on some cheaper models for instance.
The custom builders have to charge more as Bill indicated since they're largely built as one-offs even if you don't really do much custom stuff…and as part of that they tend to try and use better (in some cases) parts. Some of the parts…water heaters for instance…there really isn't a better one and you get the standard RV water heater…although in the water heater case they will now install one of the Truma continuous flow ones like Howard has.
Custom builds are heavier…in part due to the real wood instead of MDF/plastic…but also due to the heavier frame. This means you need more truck to pull the same size vs something built less well.
Remember though…even custom builders are still building RVs…and they're all IMO built like crap compared to a house…it's just that custom builders are slightly less crap than less expensive models.
We actually changed very little from NH's standard 37 foot side entertainment center floor plan on ours…added 2 feet in BR and put in king size slide but queen bed and 2 nightstands. The rest of our customization was all pretty minor stuff that makes for easier full time living. We saw one on our last trip…a 48 or 50 foot toy hauler that was very heavily customized…it just depends on what you want and how much you're willing to pay for it.
One of the other things you get with a custom build…even if you choose say a New Horizons and don't actually customize a thing…is some better quality stuff. Their frame is stiffer and heavier than most, internal cabinetry is real wood instead of plywood with either thin veneer or plastic wood grained surface. Better quality appliances to some extent and a lot more standard features that a non custom builder will charge you extra for…hydraulic levelers and auto leveling vs the manual leveling on some cheaper models for instance.
The custom builders have to charge more as Bill indicated since they're largely built as one-offs even if you don't really do much custom stuff…and as part of that they tend to try and use better (in some cases) parts. Some of the parts…water heaters for instance…there really isn't a better one and you get the standard RV water heater…although in the water heater case they will now install one of the Truma continuous flow ones like Howard has.
Custom builds are heavier…in part due to the real wood instead of MDF/plastic…but also due to the heavier frame. This means you need more truck to pull the same size vs something built less well.
Remember though…even custom builders are still building RVs…and they're all IMO built like crap compared to a house…it's just that custom builders are slightly less crap than less expensive models.
This is all just conversation that maybe helpful to some so let me pickup on one thing Neil said concerning frames, weight and stuff. Our last 5er, 39 feet long, loaded for Alaska including a generator, solar, batteries, etc. weighted in about 17,200-ish with 50 gallons of fresh water. By the sticker we were pretty much maxed out. Our current rig, 38-1/2 feet long, loaded for Alaska, same trip same stuff but with 80 gallons of fresh water came in at about 22,000 lbs. However, at 22,000 we still have 2,250 lbs more trailer cargo caring capacity (CCC) remaining after loading. That's over a ton reserve capacity. Whether this is needed is not the point. The rig has far more capacity for our stuff even with a full 100 gallon water tank. Off the line it had over 5,500 lbs of cargo capacity. However, it weights a lot more than some rigs - less than others. All that steel and wood weighs a lot. It's a choice.
I'm not saying everyone wants or needs all this capacity and strength. I'm just saying there are reasons why they cost so much and this is but one of the reasons. Its a choice, not a requirement. But it is nice to forget about what we can now load in the trailer and / or truck. Basically both are, practically speaking, impossible for us to overload.
One thing I may have missed in this thread is BUDGET, what is your budget for this fulltime toy hauler you are seeking?
We live fulltime in our toy hauler after owning two 5th wheels. Being debt free was very important to us being fulltime and living on a fixed budget. However if your budget is unlimited that's a different story.
We know a family with 3 kids they are raising on the road fulltiming in a RW using the garage as a 2nd bedroom with no issues at all.
Good luck with your research there is lots of good information on these Forums.
but i always find it much better to listen to the folks who have direct experience! and i don't feel i have enough changes in mind to go full custom. its also helpful to satisfactorily eliminate a line of exploration to concentrate on more viable options. SOOOO, i am now firmly committed to finding one here dealer loaded 
