Thinking of a truck - RV-Dreams Community Forum

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thinking of a truck

The Bear II · RV-Dreams Family Member

A good source for some of the answers you are looking for is here:
www.jackdanmayer.com/choosing_between_an_mdt_and_an_hdt.htm

Based on my research for a couple of years before I bought my current Tow Vehicle an HDT was the way to go. The HDT owners indicate the trucks are much more comfortable than an F450 or other MDTs. Surprisingly they aren't much bigger length and width wise than a crewcab dually long bed. They are taller but that can be an advantage in traffic. There are sleeper models with side or rear door. Most add or have a hauler type bed. The trucks are designed for million miles of life. So a used one with 300000 miles still has a lot of life left in it. They can be cheaper than a comparably equipped F450/ MDT.

That being said, we chose to go with a Kodiak C4500 dually crewcab with a pickup bed. At the time my 94 year old dad was traveling with us and my DW had knee trouble so it would have been too tough for them to climb up into the cab of an HDT. I discovered later there are lifts (miniature elevator) you can add to the side of the cab to make it easier to get in and out.
www.mobile-lifts.com/handy-lift-hd/

My C4500 has running boards which makes it easier to reach over the bed rails. In addition it is equipped with a LINK air suspension in the rear. I can dump the air out and lower the bed 4 inches as needed.

Although it has the rear air ride, a air ride cab and air seats the front axle is the standard spring type. So the ride can be rough when empty and on a bumpy road. Some owners have replaced the front springs with Deaver Springs and say the ride improves by 50%

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Though we are still a ways from FT, I peruse the classified sections on various RV related forums for candidate trucks regularly. You're right when you say that places like autotrader.com seem to have few of the ones with hauler beds or that the details are a bit sketchy.

-- Edited by BiggarView on Tuesday 23rd of February 2016 10:26:31 AM

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

F450 minimum and you want a dualley for either of those rigs…and you will have issues (at least with NH) with bedrail clearance as well as reaching over the top. The trouble is that if you swap out the pickup bed for a hauler you've added about 700 pounds to the rear axle weight and then you might have axle limit issues. We have a 2012 40 foot NH…weight is 21,575 loaded for full timing and pin is 5,450. We added an aux tank to the 450 (2012 crew cab) and are over axle limit. Also have issues with bed side rail clearance…hence our RAM 5500HD with hauler bed on order now.

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks, all. Much food for thought here. Please keep the comments and suggestions coming.

We are leaning toward a DRV over the NH, but since we will be buying used, whatever looks best at the time we decide to buy will be the choice.

Does anyone have any experience with a flatbed? Just from what I've seen in pictures the flatbed would have a bed height similar to that of a hauler. It isn't as pretty, but they are a little more common. Obviously neither flatbed or hauler has a side rail problem. Does the flatbed have a similar weight penalty?

A MDT or HDT is not an option. Both of us have some knee issues, so climbing up into a tall truck would probably not last for very long before we would be trading again.

-- Edited by kb0zke on Tuesday 23rd of February 2016 05:22:32 PM

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

David,

Our rig is a DRV Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 with a 2008 Ford F450 as the tow vehicle. The trailer is rated at 18,500 lbs GVWR, and that's about where we have it. However, there is some wiggle-room with a Mobile Suites because both the Mobile Suites and Elite Suites have the same "foundation" of frame size, axles, wheels, and tires. So since the Elite Suites' GVWR may be 2000 lbs heaver than a Mobile Suites, therein lies the wiggle room.

With our F450, I have to have a step stool handy to set up so I can reach over into the bed from the sides, and I'm 5'8" tall. However, the older years of about all the Fords, GM's and Dodges have lower bed sides than the newer ones. The newer bed sides bring in issues of clearance between the top of the bed sides and the underside of the fifth wheel's overhang.

While I'm not near my truck at the moment, and won't be for at least another day, I'll try to get a measurement between the ground and the top of the bed rails.

Terry

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

David:

There is a lot to consider in selecting a truck and it goes well beyond just dual rear wheels. I strongly recommend not purchasing a truck till you select the trailer.

First, if you are considering a New Horizons you most likely need something beyond the F-450 (pickup.) I know there are pictures of New Horizons pulled with F-450's. But many of them have overloaded rear axles.

As you mentioned it is very easy to have truck bed rail to trailer clearance issues regardless of the truck selected. You will want to know of that before selecting the truck and if you need / want a hauler bed then that's more weight in addition to fuel tanks and your tools, etc. in the truck.For the Mobile Suites, as Terry mentioned, the F-450 can be a good choice depending on the size of the MS. "It depends."

You mentioned the desire for a hauler bed but then there's the cost. There are sources of good used trucks with hauler beds and if you want one PM and I'll provide some contact info.

You asked for comments and mine is to select the trailer and then the truck. We have more than one friend who has had to trade in perfectly good, almost new, F-450 pickups for a larger truck due to rear axle weight issues on the pickup. So just a word of caution FWIW.

3's OM

Bill

el Rojo and Pam · RV-Dreams Family Member

Oops! I got a typo guys. I meant I wouldn't.

I wouldn't buy a Ford in the 2008 to 2010 year model. It comes with the dreaded 6.4L engine.

-- Edited by el Rojo and Pam on Thursday 25th of February 2016 08:54:42 AM

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

2008-2011 is indeed our "target" range. I'm including the 2011 models but most are still somewhat above our price range.

We've done enough research that we know we'll be getting something with a GW of 16,000 to 20,000 pounds. I'd prefer to stay toward the lower end, but 20,000 is the maximum for anything that we would want. That would put 5000 pounds (plus the hitch) on the rear axle as a maximum. If we go with the light end, and are able to load to 22% on the hitch that would put 3500 or so on the rear axle. I'll weigh the truck before buying it.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

el Rojo and Pam wrote:
I would buy a Ford in the 2008 to 2010 year model. It comes with the dreaded 6.4L engine.

I don't understand this comment. Do you mean to say you "wouldn't" buy a Ford in that range? If so, what's the big deal with the 6.4L engine? I know they did have some radiator issues, but I'm not really hearing a lot of things bad about the 6.4L. But then, I don't hang out on diesel truck forums and hear horror stories that may or may not be true. And if true, what treatment did the engines receive from their owners?

Terry

el Rojo and Pam · RV-Dreams Family Member

Terry and Jo wrote:
el Rojo and Pam wrote:
I would buy a Ford in the 2008 to 2010 year model. It comes with the dreaded 6.4L engine.
I don't understand this comment. Do you mean to say you "wouldn't" buy a Ford in that range? If so, what's the big deal with the 6.4L engine? I know they did have some radiator issues, but I'm not really hearing a lot of things bad about the 6.4L. But then, I don't hang out on diesel truck forums and hear horror stories that may or may not be true. And if true, what treatment did the engines receive from their owners?
Terry

Terry I had a typo. I meant to say I wouldn't. Ford had major problems with the 6.0 L and for some reason it continued on to a lesser extent with the 6.4. NWEscapees, Dale and Ruth might shed a better light on what happened to them, but I believe it's an oiling issue. And with no warning these engines come apart ie piston(s). I had a 2010 with 75,000 miles on it and had no major problems with it but I kept thinking about all the weight I was pulling and choose to switch to a Chevy. I don't think the Chevy's are bullet proof, but when the Ford 6.4 goes it's around $17k to get it fixed and when you leave the repair facility you still have a 6.4L.

Sorry to the Ford guys but, that's my opinion.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

No need to apologize, Red. It's nice to know these things, but I think that Ruth and Dale's truck is a 2012, thus it has the 6.7L engine. I don't remember exactly when Ford went to the 6.7L, so theirs might have been one of the first years of build.

As for me, it isn't so much of a "love" of Fords, but with regards to both Dodge and GM's, I've been burned enough by them to never buy another of theirs. Probably wrong to think that because the Chevy Silverado 4X4 that bit me was way back in the '80's when its cam shaft lobes went flat at 17,000 miles and then needed a major overhaul at 60,000 miles.

Terry

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Well, H & L’s 2005 F-450 (commercial version of the 450) blew the engine and that cost them a bundle. But that doesn’t mean I’d never buy a Ford. Bought several of them, for the correct application. Based on problems from the 1980’s there isn’t anything to purchase. LOL

Anyway, FWIW – if I were recommending a truck – assuming it had the correct weight carrying capabilities for the trailer in question – I would recommend not purchasing a Ford prior to 2012 – a RAM prior to 2013 - or a Chevy prior to 2012 all for several good reasons. But that's my opinion.

While many have had good luck with Ford’s prior to 2012 it’s a known fact the pre-2011 engines had lots of law suits and “issues.” Howard did some extensive posting on this back when he had to do what he called the “truck engine transplant.”

The reason for the above mentioned dates is partially because that’s the second year the “new” stuff came out drive train or emissions wise. I personally don’t like to buy the first year of any new truck or drive train.

2011 was the first year for a lot of things for Ford and Chevy. Ford - brand new engine, new transmission and DEF. For Chevy first year for DEF and upgraded HP, torque and a totally new much larger and weight capable frame. For RAM, 2013 was the year many new improvements were made as well as HP and torque upgrades with the addition of DEF.

Red’s comments about the 75,000 miles on the earlier Ford engines were well researched by Howard and posted. But that does not mean the newer Ford’s aren’t an acceptable choice. They don't have those engines - or transmissions. I’ve had Ford’s leave me by the side of the road, and cost a bunch of money, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t purchase one if it met my needs.

All I’m saying is it is nice to deal in facts as opposed to other considerations. I’ve had GM’s a long time with outstanding service including both my Chevy diesels in what some would call "heavy duty service." Wonderful trucks. However, to meet the requirements of my trailer the RAM was the clear choice based on specifications and capabilities. As I often say “It depends.” I’m not wedded to any brand. “Just the facts ma’am,” and those facts are model year dependent, not just brand.

My opinion

Bill

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

kb0zke wrote:
Does anyone have any experience with a flatbed? Just from what I've seen in pictures the flatbed would have a bed height similar to that of a hauler. It isn't as pretty, but they are a little more common. Obviously neither flatbed or hauler has a side rail problem. Does the flatbed have a similar weight penalty?
-- Edited by kb0zke on Tuesday 23rd of February 2016 05:22:32 PM

Guess it depends on what you mean by a flatbed. I've seen a 5500 that was the cab/chassis model like we ordered for CC to build the hauler bed for only it just had a plate on the back and the hitch on the plate. That would be lighter than a pickup bed…but it was pretty ugly and didn't have much storage space. A more complete flat bed for carrying stuff on would be heavier than nothing but no idea how it compares to a pickup bed…but probably it would be lighter than the pickup bed I'm guessing. If you're buying used then I would guess the number of 5500s with hauler beds on them available will be a pretty small number…in that case you'll have a much better selection just getting a pickup. While I don't know what a 40 foot Elite Suites would weigh…my guess is that it's less than our NH is although maybe not all that much. I also don't have a good feel for the clearance issues with the side rails with the Elite Suites as opposed to our NH…but Terry and Jo have one and an F450 so maybe they can tell you what the clearance is. For us; with the air springs on the truck inflated so it's level and the TrailerSaver hitch inflated about half way between the nominal middle and the top (about an inch higher than 'recommended' height) we have about 4-5 inches or so between bedrails and bottom of the bedroom…and that's just not enough.

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

This is what I'm talking about:

Link to Autotrader url posted earlier

Maybe there is another name for this style of body. No, I'm not necessarily going to buy this truck, just that it is the first one I came to with a picture to use as an example.

Edit by moderator: Reworked link to shorten its length, the earlier of which extended the forum page, making it harder to read. Terry

-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Thursday 25th of February 2016 07:10:58 PM

Glenn West · RV-Dreams Family Member

Had mine on here for sale not long ago. It is sold now. Hauler beds have troughs for hitch. Flatbeds don't. Would have to get a low profile hitch. They do make them for flatbeds. Custom bed be better. I have discovered that I can have a bed built for less money and better quality. They could install trough for hitch in design. Company in Houston quoted be 3500 for a 14' flat bed installed, painted, ready for travel. You likely don't need a 14' bed but you get the point. If you need company name let me know and will pm it to you.

TheHarveys · RV-Dreams Family Member

I have towed our 2010 Carriage Carri-Lite with three different trucks. I had a 2000 Ford F550 (7.3 ltr diesel with performance goodies) with an Eclipse hauler package on it and it was very stable towing the trailer. Our trailer weighs about 18,000 lbs loaded for a trip. The truck also got very good mileage. about 10 MPG towing and 15 to 18 MPG when bobtailing.
The only issue with the F550 was the scarcity of parts (we once waited a month for a body control module) and the lack of power...read 25 MPH up 6% grade in 2nd gear.

So, I traded the F550 in on a 2008 Ford F450. It had lots of power for towing, but it never felt as stable as the F550 and the factory tow/haul mode did not do anywhere near as good a job as our F550 with a PacBrake exhaust brake did at holding speed on downgrades. And the fuel mileage with the F450 was horrible. About 6.5 to 7 MPG towing and about 11 MPG unloaded.

So, I traded the F450 in and bought our current truck a 2007 International 4400. Yes, it is a true medium duty truck and I realize you do not want to go there, but, of the three trucks I have owned to tow this trailer, this one is by far the best. It is much more stable and in control of the load than either previous truck and, while the fuel mileage is not as good as it was with the F550, it is much better than it was with the F450. I now get about 9.5 to 11 MPG towing and anywhere from 12 to 15 MPG bobtailing.