Duallys give at least two advantages, especially with 36-foot and longer trailers.  They give a lot more stability in turns and maneuvering and should one rear tire go low in air or have a blowout, one still has the extra tire to do the job while traveling to a service center at a slower speed to avoid overheating.

Terry

Dualley yes. Hauler bed as well if your weights allow for one as Schreiber than the pickup bed. Get more truck then you think you need. 

I agree. I have towed with both and the dually is much better. It just feels more substantial and stable. It is more difficult to find parking and drive thru windows takes a little practice. The only real downside is driving on slushy or roads narrowed by snow banks.

Dual Wheel safety story number whatever -

Had a rock cut the inside tire of the dually coming down I-17 into Phoenix with the fiver connected.  Stopped at the Sunset Point rest stop.  Always check the tires and lugs when we stop – found the inner totally flat.  Even though the now single outer tire was quite overloaded I never noticed a problem coming down the mountain.  Changed the tire and went on.  A non-event.

Duals are a very good thing and totally worth the extra expense and very small inconvenience some describe even with a modest size fiver.

No, you won't be overloading the truck axles, but, you might find the F250 challenged by the total weight it would be towing if you are looking at 16K-18K for the trailer plus the device to hook it up to. Remember you'll be pulling/towing it as well. 

Brian

For those persons who think that driving a dually with a flat tire while still carrying the fiver is fine to get to a repair shop just remember this:  You have compromised the integrity of the good tire by exceeding its rated load capacity and now to be safe you must replace both tires otherwise you risk a blowout sometime in the future while driving at highway speeds.

RodandVal, any time you exceed the CGVWR of the truck, you are asking for trouble. While the ASHS setup may make it safer to tow certain 5ers up to the trucks rated tow capacity compared to a more tradional fiver in the bed arrangement, if your truck is rated to tow 15K, trying to tow 1600lbs for the ASHS and 16K-18K for a trailer is bound to break something sooner rather than later, or put you in a situation you may not be able to get out of. Why push your luck when your life may be on the line or that of others. 

Still, you seem to have already made up your mind for your particular situation. I'd caution you to reconsider such a plan for the details you have suggested. 

I noticed in one of the videos from the ASH website that the truck was scrubbing large quantities of rubber while manuevering a larger trailer in a tight backing turn.  I can't imagine that being good for the tire sidewalls or treadlife. Bad enough to have some scrubbing on the trailer why add the truck tires to the equation?

Bill's right about steep grades.  Too heavy a trailer will have the tail wagging the dog in an emergency.

40k+ grain carts from farm to town had to be relatively short flat runs, even then, most certainly a strain on mechanicals for you truck.

Why would Ford (or anybody for that matter) underate their trucks on purpose? Surely they have done their own tow testing and would assign the highest competetive rating they could and avoid lawsuits by not overrating them. 

While you can certainly accomplish the things you say, your comments sound more like bravado and ignore the inherent risks of overtaxing the tow vehicle or its components.

Again, the ASHS seems like an valid alternative for towing 5ers upto the rated weight allowed for the truck involved, but not an excuse to exceed it in any application.

JMHO, Brian

Brian I watched all the videos several times and never saw the tire scrubbing you describe.  Have you ever watched the tires on a tandem axle trailer which includes all fivers and most tt as the trailer is turning either going forward or backing?  They scrub extremely hard and I mean EXTREMELY hard. Does this mean that those trailers should be considered unsafe?  This machine is designed to steer while making sharp forward turns.  Backing scrubbing will be only minimal.

This system has been "touted" by a few people here on the forums before.  However, none of them had ever actually used one.  The truck manufacturers list weight capacities on trucks for a reason, and to exceed the GCVW of the truck is asking for trouble.  Also, keep in mind that in addition to the weight of the trailer, one would also be adding the weight of the AHS to the weight that the truck would be pulling.  So, if the trailer is already putting your F250 overweight, the AHS would just be adding to it.

Personally, in all the RV's I've seen over the years, I've never seen one with the AHS attached to it.

As a former professional truck driver, I would never want to overload a truck.  I think you would be better off to take the money for the AHS and trade up to a heavier, more capable truck.

As for hauling heavy loads on the farm, I've done that as well.  I seriously doubt you'd want to travel with an RV at 25 to 30 mph, and I'm sure the other drivers on the road wouldn't appreciate you doing that either.

Terry

Terry's right.... engines, trannies, chassis, drivetrains are designed to tow a certain weight and exceeding it through trickery (I would be tempted to say even ASH would not tell you to exceed truck MFR tow ratings) is asking for mechanical trouble to say the least.

Well, this conversation has gotten off-topic.  But I'll throw in my two cents on both the dually and the automated safety hitch.

Yes, on a dually for full-timers due to stability and extra capacity of the rear axle and extra stopping capability of four tires as opposed to two.  Understanding the multiple purposes of a truck for those that aren't full-timers, I'm not quite as adamant as long as the combination is safely driven for short periods and not on steep downgrades.  Typically, SRW trucks are overloaded on their rear axle and their rear tires when towing something as heavy as a typical full-timer fifth wheel.  Having weighed RVs for three years, it was quite common for SRW trucks to be overloaded.

As for the automated safety hitch, it does help with the overloaded SRW issue, but it creates more practical problems for the full-timer.  I HAVE had one demonstrated for me and I was not impressed.  I ran the guy doing the demo through all kinds of practical situations in an "uncontrolled" environment.  Afterward, I talked to the designer of the product at length about what I witnessed.  I videoed the demonstration and it wasn't pretty.  It caused ruts and skid marks in tight turns and the demonstrator had trouble hitching and unhitching from it.  It was the one time that I chose NOT to post a review, photos, and the videos because it would have had such a negative effect on the guy's business (I just left it that I was unimpressed and couldn't recommend it).  Of course, he blamed everything on the person doing the demo for not demonstrating it properly (the guy he specifically sent to me).

In addition to creating extra length on the vehicle combination, it creates a hassle in leveling the RV front to back, it does NOT make parking in a campsite easier, it creates an extra level of service and maintenance, and it adds the inconvenience of what to do with it once you are parked and need to get it out of the way (many campsites won't accommodate it AND the truck).

It may make towing safer from a pure engineering standpoint (and I'm not even sure about that), but my fear is it will have the opposite effect and encourage people without enough truck to tow trailers much larger than they should be towing.  As a former attorney, I can tell you that I'd be all over that in a lawsuit.

"Sir, what was your incentive to use Automated Safety Hitch in your trailer towing configuration?  Answer:  'They told me I could tow a bigger trailer than my truck's owners manual said I could - I wouldn't have to go out and buy a bigger truck.'  Thank you.  No further questions." 

There are many reasons this product has not caught on in the RV world, not the least of which is that potential liability issue.  He has offered numerous incentives and commissions to people like us to help promote the product.  I think it is far more suited to the horse industry and to some commercial applications, but I wouldn't have one as a full-time RVer and no amount of aeronautical engineering speak would convince me otherwise.  Just my not-so-humble opinion on this one.   

RodandVal,

If you disconnect the automated safety hitch and push it up under the fifth wheel, then it's in the way and you can't access your front compartments.  If you leave it hooked up to the fifth wheel, you can see that it will stick out two or three feet in the front, and often that is just enough to keep you from being able to park your truck in a campsite.  Often, in order to get your truck to fit in a campsite, you have to back the tailgate right up to the kingpin.  It's not a huge deal, but it will be an issue from time to time.

Also, if you leave it hitched up, how do you level front to back if the front needs to go up or down several inches?  If you need to go up very far, you'll have to disconnect it.  If you need to go down, you have to either disconnect and move it or deflate the tires. 

I too thought this product was intriguing, but having seen it in person and having considered some of the practical aspects of using it, and having been contacted multiple times under the premise of "This product will allow people to tow bigger trailers safely with lesser trucks", I just can't get behind it.  Now you may buy one and love it, but we won't be recommending this option for our RVing friends.

Mitch Chimes in:

RodandVal wrote:

---

The better half and I have talked it over. The only way I can satisfy myself either way is to make a trip to Texas and have a hands on experience. Then I will know if I want to pursue it any farther or let it stay at the factory.

---

As someone  to whom a computer is much easier to diagnose and maintain then a car/Truck/Dually, and

who has NEVER ever ever changed a tire, or oil in anything that has a motor: (note those are big boots!)

I can tell you that in 8 months of being full-time on the road that:

• I can tell you I've see WAY too many Ford 150's/250's (and even F350's) pulling rigs  that are WAY too heavy for them.
• I can say that buying TOO much truck instead of too LITTLE truck  is a much better idea.
• Most people using a F-250 are NOT going to be happy in the long run.

The idea of buying a trailer and THEN buying the truck is ok, but don't think that using your current truck will work.

I am SO so Grateful that my current F-550 with a hauler body can carry my trailer and then some, with capacity to spare.

(at the Spring Educational rally), and just had dinner with someone with a F-450 who (and I quote anonymously)

"I am so jealous of your F-550.  I wish my truck wasn't so underpowered"

Just remember.  As the original question was asked, is a Dually a must?

my answer:

"Depends on

• what you are going to tow
• how heavy a load you are going to tow
• how long you are going  to tow it,
•  whether you will ever be on the road, or just occasionally changing campgrounds.
• Do you want the security of the extra stability/safety they offer"

My bottom line advice? BUY Too much  truck, you WON'T be sorry!

(the proof?  I wish I had a HDT that could I could load a  smart-car on-to.. That's more then I have!)

hmmm

cheryls-other-half wrote:

---

(at the Spring Educational rally), and just had dinner with someone with a F-450 who (and I quote anonymously)

"I am so jealous of your F-550.  I wish my truck wasn't so underpowered"

 

 

I thought the 6.7l  V-8 diesel  found in an F-550 was the same engine (maybe with slightly different tuning) used is the F-250 and up? Thus it would produce the same power. True the F-550 is a more capable TV, with a lower final gear ratio, sturdier frame, etc. but as far as engine and transmission (power), an F-450 and an F-550 are identical.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

I bought my F-250 for towing a large travel trailer (well within the manufacturer's specs), not a heavy fiver. Indeed, I would not be happy with it towing a FT sized fiver (though Ford says it's rated for 15,900 lbs.) This is far too much for any SRW truck, IMHO.  

Of course if I had a Smart car, and a tow dolly I would be set!

Chip