Gray Tank Cleaning - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

Gray Tank Cleaning

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Neil:

I want Jack to comment as well – but what about some CLR?

http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/clr-calcium-lime-rust-cleaner/ID=prod1765587-product#descriptionNamedTab

All we’re dealing with here is plastic so I don’t believe it would be a problem to use in a plastic tank with plastic gate valves. Put a strong solution down the bathroom sink and take her for a nice rough ride?

We’ve not had the problem on our last two rigs so I haven’t personally tried this and the 50 year old “ice cube in the tank” thing won’t work.

BTW, you might want to send Jack a PM. Not totally sure if he is monitoring the forum now due to his problem with “Recent Posts.” Not saying he isn’t, but he wasn’t.

Looking forward to seeing you guys in Amana.

Bill

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

2gallons of water...1gallon of vinegar ....cup of dawn and drive it down the road

Barbaraok · RV-Dreams Family Member

I'd make it a 1:1 dilution on the vinegar . Barn

RickandJanice · RV-Dreams Family Member

Neil and Connie wrote:
......
I've also tried putting calgon in the tank and leaving it 25% or so full on a travel day hoping that it would slosh around and wash whatever the crud is off the sides…but it hasn't worked yet.....

Nel and Connie, you mention you tried Calgon but did not mention if it was fabric softener or water softener and did not say if you also used dish soap with it. Since this sounds like a film of grease on the walls, I would suggest you try filling the tank 1/2 -2/3 full of water, add 1 cup of Calgon Water Softener and 1 -2 cups of original blue Dawn dish soap or Ajax "For Greasy Pans" dish soap. Then drive to next location letting it slosh around 2 - 3 hours. Dump this mixture as soon as possible after you stop, fill the tank with fresh water and dump again. Thai has worked on both our gray and black tanks when our old style in tank sensors stop working.

Just a suggestion for the future, before washing dishes, we wipe any excess grease from all our pans with paper towels and throw them in the trash before washing. We also try to rinse any buttery or creamy sauces out of our pans before washing and dump outside or in grey water dumping stations in the parks when available. The key here is to minimize as much grease as possible from getting into the gray tank.

SnowGypsy · RV-Dreams Family Member

You need to be careful what you putting in the tank because if you have "gunk", remnants of all the soaps/chemicals that you put down there are going to stick to the "gunk" making the possibility of a harmful gas. I would not use CLR. I'd follow the advice on vinegar/water/good slush.

Lynn and Ed · RV-Dreams Family Member

Neil,

Stuart uses this product on his tanks to clean the gauges -- it might work to help address your issue. We purchased the product, but have not yet used it. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006H93FA/ref=oh_details_o00_s02_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lynn

Barbaraok · RV-Dreams Family Member

SnowGypsy wrote:
You need to be careful what you putting in the tank because if you have "gunk", remnants of all the soaps/chemicals that you put down there are going to stick to the "gunk" making the possibility of a harmful gas. I would not use CLR. I'd follow the advice on vinegar/water/good slush.

Where did you get the information that CLR would react to give you an inhalation hazard? Lactic Acid, Gluconic Acid, and Lauraimine Oxide are not inhalation hazards according to the company MSDS. It has a lower pH than vinegar, so having that around wouldn't be a problem. Now if you are talking about using bleach with it, yes that will be a problem. But I don't think anyone has suggested bleach - at least I hope not. Actually bleach is not something that every needs to go in either waste tank on a routine basis. And bleach should not be mixed with any other cleaner, that is just asking for trouble.

The white cream cheese looking stuff is probably the hard water ions (calcium and magnesium) reacting with any grease to form the beginnings of soap - - usually done in a basic environment which is why the vinegar suggestion or the CLR are suggested because they lower the pH and keep the ions in solution.

Barb

SnowGypsy · RV-Dreams Family Member

I did not say that CLR would cause a hazardous gas so read my post again for assistance with that question. I said that I would not use it. Also, keep in mind that bleach is included in many cleaners that may be used in the "house" and end up in the tank adding to the wall of "combination of grease, dishwashing soap, lime scale and what have you". Frankly, in the over 30 years that we have owned RVs, we have never ended up with any "cream cheese" mixture in the gray water tanks despite having lived in many different locations. We are always careful with cleaning products and don't mix and match but, feel free to do as you please but this is my opinion to which I do feel entitled to express.

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

We use CLR or Lime Away to clean the toilet bowl and ball, so it does go into our black tank. I also admit that seeing "I would not use CLR" the sentence after "harmful gas" made me think the two sentences were connected. It is easy to misunderstand what people are really saying with just text, you miss all the clues of a face to face conversation with pauses and chances to ask questions in the middle.

Barbaraok · RV-Dreams Family Member

SnowGypsy,

In my former life, I was director of Environmental Health & Safety at a mid sized university and have degrees in Chemistry and Chemical Engineering so I have a fair bit of understanding about the uses and misuses of hazardous materials. The way your paragraph was structured indicates that the CLR will release harmful gas when used but the vinegar won't. CLR and vinegar are organic acids, the CLR has a lower pH, but not that much lower than vinegar. Either would could react with bleach to release different types of chlorine/chloramine gasses, depending upon what else was in the 'soup' in the tank. But that is a real stretch.

I'm cheap, which is why I go with vinegar. Also use baking soda - good cleaner and cheap. And to remove hard water marks on shower doors, I take some shampoo/body wash/conditioner with EDTA in the list of ingredients and wipe the door with it on a plastic scrubby and rinse, EDTA chelates the calcium and magnesium ions and they rinse away.

Barb

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Barb:

Thanks for your knowledgeable and obviously educated comments. Very helpful. I suggested CLR mostly due to the potential for lime build up and calcium which are notorious in Florida, where Neil and Connie have spent quite a bit of time, not to mention “rust” from the water. (We grew up and lived in Florida a long time – hence our experience.)

Based on Neil’s symptoms you believe vinegar 1:1 is the best way to rid a tank of not only heavy grease build up, but the potential lime build up as well. Is that correct? I do think most of the issue is grease but could be wrong. We’ve had little of this in past but always wanting to know more for the future.

Thanks

Bill

Alie and Jims Carrilite · RV-Dreams Family Member

This particular topic was discussed in depth somewhere else. Along the way, somebody stated that they had used this service with excellent results
www.allprowaterflow.com/default.asp
If this service would get you "Like new" tanks again, then by changing the way you maintain your tanks might keep the senders/sensors in working order.

Barbaraok · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill,

I went with 1:1 dilution because the vinegar you get at the grocery store is usually 5-10% acetic acid, depending upon the brand. If you have a large tank, the 1:1 dilution would be more effective. If you have a pretty small gray tank, then the 2:1 dilution might be effective.

Some people also get good results with TSP (tri-sodium phosphate) which is a good degreaser. It is pretty caustic (basic) so you need to follow directions, but is often used for cleaning walls before painting or wall papering.

Barb

HighwayRanger · RV-Dreams Family Member

After living fulltime in my RV, I had that 1/2" thick cream cheese lining my gray tank. I know this because I drilled a hole to install a gray tank sprayer, and looked inside with a flashlight. I actually used one of those black tank spray wands in the hole in the side of the tank to blast the cream cheese junk off the tank walls. Now I think I'll follow Barb's advice to keep it clean. The gray tank sprayer should be standard equipment, and will be installed in any future RV we own. For now, it's vinegar and baking soda!

Roy

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks all…I'll keep the CLR idea in mind but will give the vinegar and Dawn combination a try on our next move or two along with flushing it pretty clean before filling it up for the agitation.

We do try to wipe as much of the grease/sauce out of our pans before washing them as possible…and I think that whoever said the lime/grease combination is the beginnings of a soap reaction…I'm almost sure this is what is stuck on the sides of the tank.

Hopefully the vinegar/Dawn combination will do the trick, although given that we spend 5 months a year in southern FL with their hard water…the buildup of lime scale is certainly a possibility as well; I'll have to check on the precautions for the CLR remover as well before putting it in the tank…don't want to damage anything you know…although it's just a plastic tank so assuming the product is safe for plastic then it shouldn't be too much of a problem if it comes to that. Gentler chemicals are certainly worth a try first though.

I'm surprised that the built in spray system that NH installs doesn't wash it off…but then if it's stuck then it likely needs some agitation and chemical support as well.

Thanks.

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

Neil and Connie: I have not seen a manufacturer install a built-in spray on the grey tank, only the black one. But NH is special.

I have known people to install a built-in spray on their grey tank themselves.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Neil:

The lime in Florida business, as you know, can be a real deal. We have a related water issue when in the southwest which can really make a mess out of the plumbing system and did at one time. We have added another external filter to try and deal with that issue. I’m not offering a specific recommendation but I’d look into an outside filtration system to try and deal with the lime issue.

The 2063 filter, which NH provided in our rig and probably yours does, by specification, filter out lime among other bad things. But we’re now going to use a 1 micron filter outside of the rig as well in the southwest. Actually put it before the regulator due to the “stuff” in that area. Other’s comments are welcome as to our choice or better suggestion.

I know there are more knowledgeable people than us on water filtration without going to RO. But Barb’s chemistry comment implies that if you can keep one of the reactants out of the tank in the first place maybe the gray tank will stop making “soap.”

Our gray tank took 7 years before I started seeing just a little of the white goop coming out at the end of a dump and my gray tank gauges (internal – not external Seelevel like you have on the NH) still worked properly. But we only spent, total, about 7-8 months in Florida. Like you, I am obsessive about getting my tanks clean after every dump and use lots of water and never leave the gray tank valve open - always a full tank at dump.

Clay L · RV-Dreams Family Member

Just for info.
Our gray tank non contact sensors installed by Winnebago (TrueLevel system) stated acting up fairly soon after installation in 2005. As full timers the tanks got a lot of use and a lot of crud built up on them. For many years the black tank read full when empty and the gray read 2/3 full when empty. It would show full when the tank was full though.

Last summer we had to stay in the house because of blood clot issues in my right leg and the motor home was not used for about six months. The gray tank valve was left open (it drained into a stone filled sump). When we moved back in and spent the first night we used the shower. When I went out to disconnect the hose I discovered that a lot of pieces of stuff had clogged the garden hose used for gray water draining. Apparently the tank walls had dried over the summer and flaked off.
The gray water display worked fine all winter in AZ and still does. It isn't being used now but I take a look at the display when I go out to the motor home from time to time.

-- Edited by Clay L on Saturday 16th of August 2014 11:07:50 AM

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

The gray tank sprayer is an option with NH and we have one…it's also a better design sprayer (I think) that's a long pipe with holes rather than just a shower head thing so it sprays the whole tank. We flush the tank with it monthly or so…and the water always ends up being pretty clean so I know it was just stuff stuck on the side of the tank.

Following the recommendation we put in 30 or so gallons, a gallon of vinegar and a cup or so of Dawn grease detergent and traveled 220 miles…on arrival we flushed and refilled and the sensor indicated normally up to about 20% then jumped to 50 then tracked normally up to full. Based on this it looks like the sloshing pretty well cleaned the upper walls of the tank but not the lower…my guess is that it was full enough so the bottom areas of the walls were not alternately exposed and splashed. We're going to do this again on our next move but with only 10 gallons of water and see if we can finish getting it clean. Looks like it is working pretty well so far though.

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

We didn't get the whole house filter option but do have a dual filter setup on our input…can't remember the exact numbers but it was the pair that Jack recommends. One is a sediment filter and the second is the chemical and charcoal type. I'll check with the rvwaterfilterstore guy and see if that's the best combo for Florida water or if we should have something else…maybe add a third filter in series with the other two is what is needed to help with the lime buildup.

We do keep the valves closed and only dump when full or moving normally; and I flush both of the tanks with 2 or 3 half tanks and 1 full tank about monthly.

I do have the regulator right off of the tap then a hose to our filter setup which lives in a plastic bucket and a second hose to the water inlet…that way the hoses get protected as well. I figured that it might wear out the regulator a little faster but at 70 bucks or so for a new one (Watts 360 adjustable) even if I have to buy a new one every couple of years it's more of a consumable item just like hoses and filter cartridges are.

Vstarrider1946 · RV-Dreams Family Member

Tiffin Co. recommends that you put a couple of cups of Pine-sol into the grey tank with a few gallons of water, then driver around for a few miles to mix it up. It will clean the tank and make everything smell nice too.

CqCasting · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thanks to everyone. Being new to RV living, this subject and your discussion have great merit.

Question: Does the vinegar and dawn help flushing food particles? if not what would you recommend?

CqCasting · RV-Dreams Community Member

Vstarrider1946 wrote:

Tiffin Co. recommends that you put a couple of cups of Pine-sol into the grey tank with a few gallons of water, then driver around for a few miles to mix it up. It will clean the tank and make everything smell nice too.

Pine-Sol, sounds good, have you used it and what's the results?

LarryW21 · RV-Dreams Family Member

"I was director of Environmental Health & Safety... and I'm cheap.

Barb, I'm one of those two also. Guess which one. I use vinegar.