If you are towing a TT design 2 will be more aero dynamic and push the air up over the trailer and the sides....saving on wind shear and drag

if the extra 100 pounds is going to save you 3 miles a gallon for being aerodynamic over say 250miles during hauling the TT down the hiway......or you omit it so you can save almost nothing driving around town......

 

do you need frugal........or is money no object in the long run..........................IMHO

If your using 1/4 ply to be light I would use a fiberglass mesh and gel ....finish sand and paint......just like a boat with the same finish and durability

I plan on using a tonneau cover like this with a good rubber seal to top it with. www.autoanything.com/tonneau-covers/61A4985A0A0.aspx

I haven't thought about glassing it. I'm sure that would add even more weight, which I'm trying to avoid - though it would look slick. The reason I'm looking at a plastic tonneau cover versus a fiberglass one is it is about 1/2 the weight. If I could glue coroplast to the frame rather than plywood I would do it, but I'm afraid it wouldn't hold up.

Chip

Thanks for the advise. Weight is a big concern. I've researched high camper tops as you describe, and one for my long bed will weigh about 300 lbs. From the material weight including a flip-up plastic toneau cover I calculate I can build one for 165-175 lbs.

Here's how the weight breaks down:

Rated payload weight with 1-150lb driver and one 150lb passenger 1950 lbs

Tongue (max weight 10% of GVWR of trailer)                                   1100 lbs
Hitch                                                                                                      65 lbs                            
Excess passenger and inside cargo (pet) weight                                250 lbs
2 mini-motorcycles                                                                               320 lbs
Honda eu3000is  generator w/oil and fuel                                          150 lbs
Spare fuel 1-6 gallon can                                                                      40 lbs   
Ramp                                                                                                     70 lbs
Topper                                                                                                 175 lbs 
Total                                                                                                  2170 lbs
                                                                                                         -1950 lbs
                                                                                                            220 lbs overweight!
Now obviously, Ford's 1950 lb carrying capacity is hedging as there are people who carry over twice this much (using air bags, or helper springs of course), so I'm not really worried about 200 lbs as I will be well within my rear axle limit (with a well adjusted weight distributing hitch.) But I really don't have any room to spare without getting a smaller trailer. I don't want to get a bigger truck because of MPG (and taxes) of the smaller, lighter rig. It looks like it's time for us and the animals to go on a diet. I could always pull out the rear seats, and maybe I could remove the bumpers to save weight..... (Plus I haven't counted removing the tail gate, which the rear wall/ramp will replace.) Of course I could always start drilling holes. ;) 

Chip

-- Edited by Sushidog on Tuesday 31st of December 2013 05:41:36 PM

go here ...................


changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-trailer-weight-fw.shtml

HHHmmmmmm.......simple Answer

how much longer do you think its going to be before D.O.T see's $$$$ in placing Rvers on the side of the road with portable scales for being overweight and unsafe.


Please dont get me wrong........but if the instructions say dont do this..and do this......I would think alot of testing and engineering was put into it.

I didn't think manufacturer recommendations were legally enforceable limits like GVWR, axle weight, wheel weight, etc.? I was under the impression that manufacturer tow recommendations were for suitability only, to allow manufacturers to limit their warranty and product liability claims.

For instance, let's say I'm towing my Aliner with my car at 170% of the manufacturer's recommended towing capacity, as I frequently do. What laws am I breaking, assuming I operate in a safe manner, as I always have? The axle, wheel and tire load ratings aren't exceeded, neither is the hitch rating or tongue weight excessive. The sport tuned suspension doesn't sag and my SS's 4 wheel, anti-lock, disk brakes coupled with my trailer brakes will stop in less distance than a standard model Cobalt with standard brakes even without a trailer, let alone the 1,000 lb trailer that they are rated to tow. I have only exceeded the recommended towing capacity of the vehicle, nothing else. If something on the vehicle breaks as a result then it's all on me, not Chevy. Of course it's all on me anyway after using it for over a quarter of a million miles.

Now operating in an unsafe manner is quite another thing. If I was speeding, driving recklessly or too fast for conditions (like in driving rain, snow or on icy roads) then even an unloaded vehicle with no trailer might deserve a ticket if they are risking their lives and others in such a manner.

I think the example of the F-350 not being able to stop because he was grossly overloaded is a good example of this reckless behavior. I'm sure he was far more than 200 lbs overloaded - perhaps several thousand pounds overweight and he didn't slow down sufficiently taking his load into account. I don't plan on towing above 55 mph, even within my vehicle's tow limits, and I may not tow at all under adverse conditions, especially in the mountains or in heavy crosswinds.

However even greatly exceeding the F-350's weight limits, in the previous example, still didn't reportedly damage the truck. It only affected its ability to stop, exceeding the braking capacity of the rig. I'll bet if he reduced his speed by only 10-15 mph he would have been able to stop, even though he was foolishly towing thousands of lbs beyond what his truck was rated for. Would exceeding the carrying capacity of my F-250 by 200 lbs significantly diminish its braking capacity, especially when the trailer I'll be towing will be thousands of lbs under what Ford says it can pull (and safely stop)? I doubt it. I also don't think this is a ticketable offense - at least not in the USA. Now I have heard that Canadian cops strictly enforce truck weights and measures with random vehicle stops, but since I'll never set foot on their soil, even to travel through to Alaska, mainly because of their gun laws but also because it's far too cold :) it won't affect me. They can technically pull over and inspect trucks that they have reasonable cause are violating other safety and emission laws too. But if you don't give them cause, like belching black smoke or have sagging springs or worn out shocks it will be unreasonable search and seizure and they'll need a warrant to proceed. I'm surprised they get away with random insurance checks in some states, as this also violates unreasonable search and seizure, IMHO. Ah, but what do I know? ;)

Chip

Thanks Mike.

So I am correct then. Since the data plate on the vehicle does not say anything about carrying capacity (only axle weight limits and GVWR) nor does it say anything about how much my truck can tow. My RAWR is 6,100lbs and GVWR is 9800lbs. Even though Ford says that the carrying capacity is only 1950 lbs, as long as neither of these 2 numbers are exceeded then I'm good to go to put say 2,400lbs in the bed (as I doubt that the front capacity will not be close before the GVWR is exceeded.) Also I could legally tow a 14,000 lb travel trailer or a 18,000 lb fiver (not that I ever would) as long as the data plate weight specs are not exceeded, even though Ford suggests that it should not tow more than 12,500 lbs for a TT and 16,000lbs for a fiver - this is just a suggestion and not a legal limit. My doctor suggests that I lose weight too, but I don't listen to him either, as he can't send the weight police after my fat butt either. :)

So I can drive drunk, hopped up on drugs, with an expired safety ispection sticker, bald tires and worn-out brakes and my insuance must pay any and all claims (up to my policy limits.) But if I am 10 lbs over one of the weight limits on the data plate they can refuse payment even though I paid all my premiums? How is that possible? Don't we buy insurance to protect us from screwing up? If I didn't mess up why would I need insurance to begin with? I've heard the claim that insurants can deny coverage for being overweight before, but I don't see how they can do this legally? Wouldn't they have to put this wording somewhere in their insurance policy? And if so why don't they deny claims for drunk drivers, drug abusers, speeders or others in violation. It would seem that these other factors create a far greater safety risk than a truck 100lbs over his GVWR (yet everything else within the legal limits.) This sounds like a scare tactic to me. If they can in fact do this, then it must be spelled out in bold letters in your policy. I haven't found it on mine? Is it on anyone elses? If so you might want to switch carriers. I have GEICO.

Chip

Sushidog wrote:

---

However even greatly exceeding the F-350's weight limits, in the previous example, still didn't reportedly damage the truck. It only affected its ability to stop, exceeding the braking capacity of the rig. I'll bet if he reduced his speed by only 10-15 mph he would have been able to stop, even though he was foolishly towing thousands of lbs beyond what his truck was rated for. Would exceeding the carrying capacity of my F-250 by 200 lbs significantly diminish its braking capacity, especially when the trailer I'll be towing will be thousands of lbs under what Ford says it can pull (and safely stop)? I doubt it. I also don't think this is a ticketable offense - at least not in the USA. Now I have heard that Canadian cops strictly enforce truck weights and measures with random vehicle stops, but since I'll never set foot on their soil, even to travel through to Alaska, mainly because of their gun laws but also because it's far too cold :) it won't affect me. They can technically pull over and inspect trucks that they have reasonable cause are violating other safety and emission laws too. But if you don't give them cause, like belching black smoke or have sagging springs or worn out shocks it will be unreasonable search and seizure and they'll need a warrant to proceed. I'm surprised they get away with random insurance checks in some states, as this also violates unreasonable search and seizure, IMHO. Ah, but what do I know? ;)

Chip

---

 

Chip,

You are "assuming" that the DRV owner was overweight by thousands.  I never said that he was, and in fact, stated that I didn't know his capacities.  Also, considering that he was approaching a traffic light, it presumes that he was not out in the country somewhere, so I imagine his speed was probably less than you are considering.

What I did was give you a "real world" scenario of towing, just as you asked for, but you may not wish to hear it.  However, whatever you do, keep in mind that others on the road are also counting on others to tow responsibly.  I have years of experience with all kinds of trucks and towing of trailers, including 18-wheelers.  Believe me, I've also seen the results of what happens when someone doesn't tow responsibly.

Terry

Chip,

Most of the DRV's come in less than the 20,000 lb weight.  The only ones rated at 20,000 pounds or more are the Elite Suites and those models that are longer than 38 feet long.  Our 2010 Mobile Suites is 38.5 feet long and has a GVWR of only 18,500 lbs.

However, your truck numbers are confusing me.  What you are saying is that yours has a payload capacity of 1950 lbs.  However, I have a pdf file for the 2008 Ford Super Duty trucks that show better weight capacities.  Not knowing what your truck's size parameters are, here is an image showing the info from that brochure for the F250.

To add for your information, here is an image from the same brochure showing the weights for travel trailers that are supposed to be for the F250.  Remember that some of these numbers are "towing weights" and are only to be used as a rough guide.

By the way, if you'd like to have a pdf file copy of this brochure, send me a private message with your e-mail address and I'll send you a copy.

Terry