What is the proper vehicle to tow a Mobile Suites? - RV-Dreams Community Forum

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

What is the proper vehicle to tow a Mobile Suites?

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Depending on the length of trailer that one gets in a Mobile Suites, the GVWR is likely to be around 18,500 lbs, at least our 38-footer is rated at that. While it would be likely that a 350/3500 series truck could tow that heavy of a trailer, but if one is considering a lot of driving in mountainous areas, one might want to go heavier with their truck. In our case, we chose a Ford F450 because it would better handle a trailer that large for our type of driving. Just because a truck is big enough to "tow" a heavy trailer, doesn't mean that it will "safely handle" that same trailer on long, steep downhill grades and emergency braking.

When we were looking at trucks back in 2008 and 2009, neither Dodge nor GM could match the weight capability of the F450. Now, they claim to have improved their trucks, so if they are accurate on their weight ratings, they may be better matched for the heavier trailers. Be sure and NOT go by the truck manufacturer's tow rating. Look at GCVW, GVWR (of both rigs) and GAWR to make a better choice.

Terry

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks, Terry. The one that we are looking at is 17,500 GVWR.

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

From doing a quick search on Auto Trader and Craiglist, there are not many used 450s out there.

What is the difference in MPG between a F350 and F450 pulling the same rig, I wonder?

-- Edited by two 4 the road on Friday 25th of October 2013 05:39:56 PM

lindy · RV-Dreams Family Member

It also depends on your planned usage for the 5th Wheel. When we were looking at DRV Mobile Suites for full timing I considered using nothing smaller then i.e. a Chevy Kodiak 4500 Medium Duty Truck being as we were going to be going full time and traveling a lot.

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

lindy, we are in the very early stages of trying to sort things out. We both have a desire to be on the road for extended periods. So, we are looking for something that is somewhat durable.

lindy · RV-Dreams Family Member

My feelings are sure an F-450/550 can tow the Mobile Suites. We were looking at a 38' and I'd rather have way too much truck to tow a trlr then enough and maybe end up having to trade every 4-5 years because a smaller truck was used up. Trucks in the MDT range are built for extended/harder use then regular pick-ups.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

It depends on the year that you can find. If one is looking at a new truck, I'm not sure that the F450 is a lot more than an F350 with regards to weight capacities in the newer lines, with just about 2100 lbs difference with the rated GCVW weights. When we bought our 2008 (in October of 2009), it was one that had the "lower" rear axle ratio, making it a bit tough on fuel, but better suited for mountain passes. And we plan to be in a number of mountain passes.

Looking at the 2013 Ford Super Duty brochure, the F450 is the only one that would have the 4:30 rear axle ratio. The F350's rear axle ratio would be something like 3:73. Better for fuel, but not for climbing.

Terry

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks, Terry.

NWescapee · RV-Dreams Family Member

two for the road - we also considered the combined gross vehicle weight difference which was 2500 lb for a F350 vs. F450. Because we carry an extra 1000 pounds in the truck for our business related "stuff" and tow a Mobile Suites, we felt more comfortable with the F450 option. We are also among those that will be towing through mountains a LOT. We've already crossed the Cascades, Rockies (3 times), and the Sierra Nevadas and that was just in a very short 4 month timeframe.

You are right, there are not many used ones out there, but keep looking. We found a used one that had only been driven for 7 months, 10 hours away from where we live. It worked for us as it was on the route to OK where Dale needed to go to pick up our used Mobile Suites from Rolling Retreats. It was even the color we wanted which was amazing on the used market.

jayc · RV-Dreams Family Member

Here is a great website to check your truck's capabilities.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

T4TR,

Since you are considering a Mobile Suites and the weights involved, I'll e-mail you and send a copy of a document that was posted over on SOITC's (Suite Owners International Travel Club) website. It is one that relates to DRV products and their weights, as well as how those weights were in relationship to the tow vehicles being used at the time. The "author" is one that weighed trucks and trailers at RV shows and rallies and compiled those weights into a chart.

One comment that he made in the document that really related to the trucks was that in ALL instances where a truck with single rear wheels was involved, they were overweight for the truck's weight capacity. What was REALLY eye-opening was that even with dual rear wheel trucks, 60% of those were also overweight. Those weights were all based on the weights posted on the trucks "data sticker" at the driver's side door.

I'd post that document here, but unfortunately, there is no way to post document files on RV Dreams' forums.

Terry

Phil · RV-Dreams Community Member

When it comes to a vehicle capable of towing a heavy load, you better get it right the first time to avoid a very costly mistake. I like to say that "you can never have to much truck......but you sure can have not enough truck and be real unhappy." Don't trust what most truck sales people tell you. Most of them just want to sell a truck. They have no idea and many don't care if it will handle the job or not. Do your research!

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

Does the F-450 require a commercial license?

MarkS · RV-Dreams Family Member

Different states have different requirements. Some have special licenses for RVs depending on weight. I don't know of any state that requires a CDL to operate an RV or a truck to pull them, even an HDT.

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

That's a relief! Someone had told me that we might need one for 450.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

MarkS wrote:
Different states have different requirements. Some have special licenses for RVs depending on weight. I don't know of any state that requires a CDL to operate an RV or a truck to pull them, even an HDT.

100% true, but read on a bit. You do not need a “CDL;” however, you may need what is called in some states a “Class A” non-CDL license. You do in my state of residence. It is the same written and driving test for a CDL but without test items such as log books. In my state, for example, if the total weight of the rig is over 26,001 lbs combined weight then you need a “Class A” - “CDL Exempt” license which I have. Some other states have similar requirements and the state that issues your license sets the requirement. Not the state you are driving in. So the “450” itself is not the determining factor. It is the combined weight of the rig.

This is sort of important to check into because driving without a properly “rated” license is the same as driving without a licensee which is really important should you ever have a mishap.

Bill

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

Wow...thanks!! Soooo much to consider!!!

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

two 4 the road wrote:
Wow...thanks!! Soooo much to consider!!!

This site might be helpful as a first check. It is NOT gospel, but at least gives you an idea of what is required. Check your home state specifically. But this could be a factor in choosing a state if you are full-time and never really planning to live there. However, given a bit of study the test is not beyond the average person to pass. So don’t let this scare you off.

http://changingears.com/rv-sec-state-rv-license.shtml

BTW, if we were discussing a motor home it would be a Class “B” license over 26,001 lbs in some states. But if you have a Class “A” then you have a Class “B” by definition - but not the other way around. But you’re looking at 5er so that’s what I commented on.

Billb

Bob and Lindy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Two 4 the road- We just purchased a 2013 F450 to upgrade our towing capacity. We had a 2002 F350 SRW short box that handled our Montana well but we decided to upgrade for our upcoming full timing adventure next summer. I was apprehensive on the fuel mileage going from 3.73 to the 4.30 ratios but have been very happy with our fuel economy on our short trips so far, it has been the same for both trucks.
I was especially impressed with the handling of the dually over the srw. Our last weekend campout was about 100 miles due east of home on a very windy (south wind) afternoon, gusts over 40 mph. In the F350 I would have been steering into the wind the whole trip. The F450 was so steady & straight I could let go of the steering wheel & not wander.
We now have a foot longer wheelbase than before but turn circles inside the shorter truck. Lindy says she can see in the box easier on the new truck compared to the older truck, it is an inch shorter. Both trucks were 4x4, a hard habit to break living in the snow belt all my life. Granted my Montana is a bit smaller & lighter than what you are looking at but I think the F450 would work fine for you. Verify the weights but I think it'll be just right. If you decide to go to a larger trailer in the future, you may want to look at even larger power unit.

Good luck & Safe travels.

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

Decisions, decisions....The thought of driving around a F450 is just not very appealing... Going back and forth between buying a lighter 5er, but then I guess will not hold up if we decide to go full-time....

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

two 4 the road wrote:
Decisions, decisions....The thought of driving around a F450 is just not very appealing... Going back and forth between buying a lighter 5er, but then I guess will not hold up if we decide to go full-time....

I find this statement a little curious. Perhaps you would like to expand upon it.

An F450 is exactly the same size as an F350. In either case, for almost ANY reasonable size 5er, you are going to want to have dual rear wheels. Certainly for anything that weighs over 12-13K lbs. So what is the difference between the F450 and 350 that makes you want to shy away from an F450?

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack...pardon my ignorance! I assumed that an F450 would be even larger than the large F350 that we looked at. There aren't any in our area to view. That is a relief to know! Thanks!

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

We found this truck about 4 hours from us at a small used car dealership. It comes with a 1 year, 25,000 mile warranty.

2008 Ford F450 Lariat
6.4L V-8 twin turbo
4 wheel drive
gear ratio - 4.88

For $30,000.

Is this a good truck and is it a good price? We have never bought from a small used car dealer before. Is it OK to do so?

-- Edited by two 4 the road on Monday 28th of October 2013 06:16:15 PM

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

T4TR,

If one were buying an older F450, one that has the 19.5 inch wheels, the F450 will be a bit taller than an F350. However, that can actually be a benefit to be able to see traffic easier. As for length and width, they are likely either the same or very close to the same size. One real advantage to the F450 is that it has a tighter turning radius than an F350. Prior to us buying our 2008 F450, we had a Ford F250 with a club cab and short bed. The F250 was a full three feet shorter in length than the F450, but the F450 turned in about the exact same radius.

One possible drawback to the F450 is that it might be hard to find an extended warranty for one, especially in the aftermarket area, and in some states, it might be an issue with the price of insurance. After all, the F450 is a Class 4 truck. Wikipedia definitions of truck categories.

Terry

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thank you, Terry! Will look into that.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Terry and Jo wrote:
T4TR,
If one were buying an older F450, one that has the 19.5 inch wheels, the F450 will be a bit taller than an F350. However, that can actually be a benefit to be able to see traffic easier. As for length and width, they are likely either the same or very close to the same size. One real advantage to the F450 is that it has a tighter turning radius than an F350. Prior to us buying our 2008 F450, we had a Ford F250 with a club cab and short bed. The F250 was a full three feet shorter in length than the F450, but the F450 turned in about the exact same radius.
One possible drawback to the F450 is that it might be hard to find an extended warranty for one, especially in the aftermarket area, and in some states, it might be an issue with the price of insurance. After all, the F450 is a Class 4 truck. Wikipedia definitions of truck categories.
Terry

Terry:

I don’t’ have the numbers before me, but isn’t a 450 a bit taller bed rail wise than a 350? (Assuming no RV Hauler Bed installed) Have to take into consideration Bed Rail to Trailer clearance issues. I assume that a new MS can still be lifted as part of a factory order or at MOR/ryde. Last time we discussed with DRV building one they said that could be done in various ways as part of the OEM build. Not a reason not to buy a 450, just an element to deal with / consider. I’d lift the MS anyway just to be safe even with a 350 / 3500, etc.. But that’s just me. I've seen MS with truck rails cut into the trailer. Not pretty (This can be true for all trailers not just MS. It's not a MS issue as such. It is a clearance issue with any trailer to consider.)

Bill

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill..we are looking at a used MS, so what could we do about that? Please talk to me like a complete newbie, because we are. I don't understand all the terminology that you just gave.

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

This whole thing has taken on a life of its own! We started out thinking that we would get an 18' Fun Finder TT to zip around in....but, when we actually saw how tiny they were and the fact that we would have to crawl over one another to get in and out of bed, we stepped up to looking at a 25' travel trailer. But then, we realized that we might want to live in it, which made the 25' way too small for us. Also, when we saw how low the ceiling was and felt clausterphobic in them, we stepped up to fifth wheels...something small and light and buy an F250. But then we wanted a W/D and saw that those only come in longer lengths. So, we thought we would get a 35+' 5er and buy an F350.

We thought more about full-timing....so I sent my wish-list to a salesman (one item, being "sturdy enough to live in full-time"), and up popped an a MS....now, we have to think about an F450!

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

two 4 the broad wrote:
Bill..we are looking at a used MS, so what could we do about that? Please talk to me like a complete newbie, because we are. I don't understand all the terminology that you just gave.

Terry is the resident F-450 guy but what I am saying is applicable to any 5er and truck. So here goes:

When you connect a pickup truck with a standard pickup truck bed to a 5^th wheel there is a clearance between the top of the truck’s bed rail and the “drop” of the 5er that comes over the pickup truck bed. IMO, and some others, you should have at least 7” of clearance between these two points for clearance safety.

When the pickup truck and trailer, for example, come down an off-ramp, or a drive way and there is a slope which has an angle to it (kind of like a big dip or a hump rise in some ways) the truck bed rails will rise – i.e. go up as the front of the truck goes “down.” But the trailer and rear wheels of the truck don’t do the same thing right away because they haven’t made it to that grade change yet. So the bed rails rise and can dig into the bottom overhang of the 5er. This can be exaggerated especially in a turn when, again, the truck is going further “down” in the front due to a dip and the trailer and rear wheels of the truck have yet to make it to that incline change.

Once you see a truck and trailer connected and look at it from the side you’ll immediately see what I am referring to and go “Oh yea, I get it.”

This situation can happen on paved roads just as easily as going into a campground. It isn’t an “off-road” thing. It is just simple geometry and can happen where there are dips or rises going in to or out of driveways, Interstate ramps or a campground. This is not to scare you. You just need to have the trailer and truck mated properly and the newer trucks, especially, are “higher” and also some have even higher bed rails in addition to the increase in the height of the truck. This is not just an F-450 / MS issue. It is true of any pickup truck bed and trailer. But the F-450 is a “tall truck.”

My comment about an RV-Hauler bed concerns having the pickup truck bed removed and a specific type of bed replace it such that you have a lot of enclosed storage and also very low bed rails on the truck. I have one and love it. It’s expensive and well worth in IMO. Others don’t like it because it costs a lot of money. To see what one looks like go here:

http://www.classychassistrucks.com/

I have one of these on my truck and am very pleased with it and have had excellent service from them. They will be happy to put one on a Ford, Chevy or a Dodge as well. There are other manufactures as well who do good work.

Hope I didn’t confuse the issue with too many words. But sometimes it takes a few more words to convey more of a complete thought.

BTW, there are other trucks that can handle the MS quite well and certainly within the specifications of the truck. But an F-450 will indeed do the job quite well and many use them and love them. It's just not the only choice these days as I believe was mentioned.

Bill

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks for taking the time to explain!

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

OK. I've got a few numbers from the 2013 Ford Super Duty brochure, which includes everything from an F250 up to and including the F450. Keep in mind that the wheels on the F450 for the last few years have been 17" instead of the 19.5" with earlier models of the F450.

Looking at both the F350 and the F450 being 4WD, the F450 load floor height is actually 2 inches lower than the F350. If the F350 is 2WD, then the F450 would be just over an inch taller. On top of that, the cargo box height is the same on all models, so there is no difference there. I've not seen the dimensions for GM and Dodge, so I can't compare to them.

Terry

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

two 4 the road wrote:
Terry...is this in reference to Bill's last post?

I know Terry’s numbers are correct. But as he noted, it depends on the year of the truck. All F-450’s / F-350’s / Chevy / Dodge 3500’s are not the same. Depends on the year, not the “badge” on the side of the truck. You can have a bed rail clearance issue with any truck and trailer. You just have to check and make sure for any specific truck and trailer. That's all I am saying.

R12 · RV-Dreams Family Member

two 4 the road wrote:
We found this truck about 4 hours from us at a small used car dealership. It comes with a 1 year, 25,000 mile warranty.

2008 Ford F450 Lariat
6.4L V-8 twin turbo
4 wheel drive
gear ratio - 4.88

For $30,000.

Is this a good truck and is it a good price? We have never bought from a small used car dealer before. Is it OK to do so?

-- Edited by two 4 the road on Monday 28th of October 2013 06:16:15 PM

Ford stopped production of the 4:88 geared F450 after a brief run due to the terrible mileage that they gave. My 2010 F450 with the 4:30 gear ratio and pulling a 20,000 lb. Mobile Suites only gave me about 6 to 6.5 mpg. The 6.4 engine is generally reliable but because of the mileage and the fact that fuel gets into the crankcase during regens made me trade in and get the F450 with the 6.7 engine. If you do go with the '08 check with a dealer for any warranty work that was done on it. Early '08's had problems with the radiators and other parts of the cooling system.

two 4 the road · RV-Dreams Family Member

R12...Thanks sooooo much for the tip!!! No wonder the price was so low!!

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

T4TR,

The used truck will depend to some degree on how many miles it has on it. Plus, I know a bunch of folks out there with older F450's that aren't having problems. While we've not been a position to tow our Mobile Suites much, when I did tow it, I was getting closer to 9 mpg when towing. When we bought our 2008, it had 46,000 miles on it and had an asking price of about $36,000. That may give you an idea of its value. However, being at a used car dealer, I'd certainly be cautious and ask that you be able to take the truck to a Ford dealer and let them check it out for you. You will be expected to pay for the evaluation, but it may save you a lot of headaches later.

With our F450, I've been very impressed with its towing capacity. It almost is like I don't have a trailer behind me. As long as I'm not in steep hills and such, I don't find the need to use the "Tow/Haul" feature of the transmission and I also can use the cruise control with no problems. Personally, I like the 4:88 rear differential ratio as it will be beneficial when I'm in the mountains.

Terry

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

There are a number of Suites owners that are towing with F350 trucks. But, as I've mentioned before, be sure and look at all the weights involved. I know of some that are towing heavy trailers and may not have any weight cushion with their trucks. Towing a trailer is one thing, but handling and stopping is completely different. I know of one Suite owner that was unable to stop for a stop light on a road that was slightly wet. Fortunately, the side traffic saw what was happening and allowed them to go through the intersection. It wasn't long before that couple traded trucks. In their case, they went bigger than and F450 and bought a mini-Freightliner.

Terry

SnowGypsy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Yes, not the ability to tow but the ability to stop. I was in a campground once and saw a vehicle pulling a TT and they pulled up to the side of the building where you went to register but the unit kept going even with the brakes applied and if someone would have been walking, they would have been hit. It was towing great and moving right along as it came down the long drive to the park.

Before shopping for a unit, one needs to make a priority list and when you shop the used market, you have to be more flexible. And, with size, it can get out of hand very quickly and you can end up with something much bigger than you really want to haul around and this I have seen more than once. You have to know how you will use the unit since a full-time unit with appropriate vehicle really isn't something for just weekend fun.

I would start with a smaller unit and make sure I enjoyed traveling with it and staying in RV parks prior to committing to a full-time unit and mammoth tow vehicle. We also saw a lot of people that were "upside down" (owed more than the trailer/truck was worth) and wanted to trade but couldn't or took the bite and did trade. Lots of bigger units sitting on the sales lots both new and used with the smaller ones much easier to find a home for. Too easy to get stars in your eyes when at the dealership and forget about the reality.