engine brake ..... do you really need it???? - RV-Dreams Community Forum

UN-TIED · RV-Dreams Community Member

engine brake ..... do you really need it????

Racerguy · RV-Dreams Family Member

I would hold out for or plan on installing an engine brake of some sort.Tow Haul works pretty good but using the transmission to hold back up to 20,000 lbs or more creates a lot of heat and we all know heat is the biggest danger to any automatic transmission.If you intend to travel out west much at all I would make sure I had both tow haul and an engine brake.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mike,

If your transmission has the "tow/haul" feature, that acts similar to an engine or exhaust brake. Even though I used to drive 18-wheelers, I never had the occasion to have a truck with the engine brakes. So, when I went to researching for trucks, I ran into this issue. After being told about the tow/haul feature of the transmissions, I got to asking questions. A number of folks that have heavy trailers like ours all said that the transmission feature does a good job.

What I would suggest is asking a mechanic about whether an add-on exhaust or engine brake would be as effective and safe as the transmission's capabilities.

Terry

Racerguy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Tow Haul does a real good job, but on long steep hills it has a tendency to want to over rev your engine where an engine brake will not.Ask Howard what happens when you over rev your engine.With my Dodge I actually used both on occasion.Don't get me wrong, tow haul is a great feature,I just think engine brakes are also.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Lonney Wade wrote:
I'm finding that Banks is not just a trans brake it's a Power SpeedBrake All-Electronic Braking System It takes exhaust braking to a whole new level by combining intelligent manipulation of the variable geometry turbo's turbine vanes with specific control of gear selection and torque converter clutch lock up application when engine braking is desired. SpeedBrake has various operating modes and settings to optimize braking function for individual preferences and conditions, Lonney.

OK. I'm slightly confused. In your first post, you stated that you were looking at the banks. Now in this one, you say you are "finding that Banks is not just a trans brake." While a lot of your paragraph is actually "cut and pasted" from Banks' website, do you actually have one of the units or are you just going by their claims?

Oh, and did you mean that the unit cost $1300? Your first post stated $13,000.

Now, with regards to aftermarket devices, have there been issues of problems with the electronics of those systems rendering the devices inoperable, such as a bad computer chip or blown fuse?

What I've read from a lot of folks that use the transmission's tow/haul feature is that one uses the transmission to a point near "red-line" and then press the brakes firmly to slow down quickly by about 15 to 20 mph before going back to allowing the transmission to slow the rig again.

Terry

Lonney Wade · RV-Dreams Family Member

Lonney Wade wrote:
Hi Mike, I was just looking at a brake system from Banks, I have a 2010 37ft. Everest 5th wheel 12,300# dry weight and a 2010 Chevy HD diesel truck, it has a tow button on the shifter but it uses the trans to slow down the truck, I just test drove a 2013 Chevy HD diesel truck with a exhaust brake, it worked ok but I could not adjust the braking system for town or highway for how hard it comes on I'm saying this because I was looking at disk brakes for the 5th wheel because of the hills out west, I was looking at about $3K installed and I will still have to ride my brakes down the hills, this brake system from Banks is so cool when your on the hill you set your speed and leave your foot off the brakes it will hold the speed just like cruse control all the way down the hill +/- 1 mph, price is about $13,00.00 dollars and about 2 hours to install here's the web site http://www.xtremediesel.com/bankspowerspeedbrakeall-electronicbrakingsystem.aspx let me know what you think Lonney.
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry

-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Thursday 21st of March 2013 03:27:28 PM

Mike and Myong · RV-Dreams Community Member

This Banks Speedbrake is just the thing I need to help complement the tow/haul selector on my 2009 GMC 3500 dually. With the big mountains and grades out here in the West, I see where this would get used quite a bit. Now just have to get my dream RV!!

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

UN-TIED wrote:
Hi everyone
Im looking at a 2012 f350 6.7l King Ranch. This truck does not have the engine brake and was wondering if I should pass on this one and keep looking?? All opinions welcome. Thanks, Mike

Mike:

I would look more closely at the truck specifications. That year of Ford has a “turbo brake” which, on the GM’s, is extremely effective. Let’s not get into the Ford vs. Chevy thing – please. But according to published reports the Ford version of the turbo brake was not quite as good as the GM version, but Ford’s was nonetheless very effective in combination with the tow-haul transmission shift point braking system.

Before you put on the exhaust brake, some of which are more effective than others, I would try the Ford with the turbo brake and make sure you need more. I can tell you, having just driving the mountains out west, including the ones where Howard and Linda were this past summer; I had zero braking issue with my truck and trailer. The turbo brakes are quite effective and, according to specifications, are included on the 2011 and forward Ford and GM trucks.

My 2 cents for your consideration

Bill

UN-TIED · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thanks to all for comments, very helpful.

A GREAT group of people! :))))

The Bear II · RV-Dreams Family Member

Here's the example I use:

My old truck didn't have an exhaust brake. On a long 6% down hill grade we often travelled I would have to use my truck and trailer brakes 12 times to keep from over revving the engine/transmission. That was with the transmission in first gear.

My new truck has an exhaust brake. The same trailer going down the same grade in 5th gear I never have to hit the brakes. The speed stays at 55MPH.

It's a lot safer with the exhaust brake.

travlingman · RV-Dreams Family Member

UN-TIED wrote:
Hi everyone
Im looking at a 2012 f350 6.7l King Ranch. This truck does not have the engine brake and was wondering if I should pass on this one and keep looking?? All opinions welcome. Thanks, Mike

I have a 2012 Ford F-350 and it comes with a turbo brake on the diesels, standard. It is different from GM and Ram's in the way it operates. Instead of a on/off switch it is computer/software operated. It uses the turbo for back pressure(like a Banks speedbrake, believe Duramax's are turbo brakes) to slow truck down. You have to get up to at least 3000 RPM's for it to start working, that is the way it was designed. Since I live in the Appalacian mountains and travel from TN to NC alot, I have used it and it works. At top of mountain I brake down to around 50 MPH, and truck will hold that for the entire down grade with no problem. The problem most have is not letting the RPM's get up to let the turbo brake work. The truck uses grade braking below 3000 RPM's and can pick up speed, and this is where most will hit the brakes instead of letting RPM's go up to use the turbo brake. At 50 MPh, I use 3rd gear and usually around 3300 RPM's or so. The truck is designed for these high RPM's and will upshift if it gets to a point of damaging engine.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mike, may I offer to clarify a few misconceptions about the “turbo brake” and related items.

First, the 2012 F-350, assuming it is not overloaded, will, stock, do an excellent job of handling the trailer as far as braking is concerned. An Exhaust Brake addition is not required as the 2012 F-350 diesel already has one – a turbo brake. The “turbo brake,” in these light duty truck applications, IS essentially an exhaust brake and in many ways superior as it is a variable system based on the truck’s computer ascertainment of how much braking is required and is tightly intergraded with transmission braking (gear selection) as well. It simply uses the variable vanes of the turbo charger to restrict the exhaust, just like an in-line exhaust brake, thus providing additional back pressure slowing the engine RPM and thus the vehicle.

Both the Ford and GM products work exactly the same in this application. However, the GM product does allow for you to turn the turbo brake off. Actually the GM switch is an “enable / disable” switch. But the Ford and GM systems are both proportional to the braking demands as determined by the truck’s computer. The Ford system is just always enabled. No driver option. GM offers a switch for the driver to enable or disable the system as one might choose for various reasons. Other than that, Ford and GM are the same.

The Banks “Speed Brake” is likewise a “turbo brake.” It is all electronic unlike an aftermarket exhaust brake addition which requires cutting the exhaust line and welding in a restrictor gate. The Banks Speed Brake came out a few years ago. It was an aftermarket copy of the GM system which was an OEM installed system for the Duramax / Allison equipped 4500 / 5500 series trucks. The Speed Brake could be beneficial to trucks prior to the 2011 Ford and GM trucks which came from the factory with, essentially, this same system as outline above. I never needed it on my 2006 Duramax / Allison although I considered it after doing a lot of research. After I pulled the RV to Alaska without it I determined that the Allison was totally fine with my rig and didn’t want the additional aftermarket electronics which could fail. That was a personal choice but it is was also true the Duramax had a much higher non-load RPM red line which offered much greater flexibility of gear selection for braking. As always, “it depends.”

All that said for clarification, the OEM 2011+ turbo braking systems are really nice and give you an extra measure of control. I’m glad I have it on my truck and you will enjoy it on your 2012 Ford as well.

Bill