MOHU TV ANTENNA - RV-Dreams Community Forum

charles · RV-Dreams Family Member

MOHU TV ANTENNA

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Well, from what I read in the FAQ's section of their website, one would have to be within 30 to 40 miles of the broadcast towers. That would seem to leave out an awful lot of area in this country.

I also had a question about one of their statements, as I've not kept up with television technology over the years. Their FAQ section had an answer that stated that UHF was the most prevalent source of television. In the time when I was more involved with the technology, VHF was the primary source with usually only 1 or 2 stations in an area that was UHV.

So, has the new digital TV age brought about a lot of UHF broadcast transmitters, even from former VHF sources?

As for us, when we get to traveling, 30 or 40 miles of range just won't cut it.

Terry

charles · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks Terry, I saw that and wondered about the range, we would seldome be that close to any station's tower.
Enough said.
CCC

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Nothing special about this antenna – have one like it about 10 feet from me and have had it for over 10 years. Having a pre-amp is a very good thing but it is just a planar antenna, and not particularity directional. Range - well it depends as I always say.

Most TV stations are now on UHF as it is the preferred band now for a lot of reasons I won’t bore you with. Once VHF was, not so much now due to interference and lower power levels required by the FCC on VHF as opposed to UHF.

I did work on the digital TV transition / standards and testing, both the field testing in North Carolina and the Washington, DC FCC stuff as well. We learned a lot about antennas and digital TV. The laws of physics hadn’t changed, but digital, while giving better results, doesn’t like ghosts. (Technical term is multi-path.) Some of these antennas are not very directional and sometimes that can cause reception issues as they don’t do well with signal ghosts.

These antennas also don’t work as well with VHF as they do with UHF, but, as I said, most stations are UHF.

Your best bet is a RV roof antenna with a pre-amp. But this little antenna will work as well as any of its peers – just don’t expect more than the design allows.

I also suggest, independent of a roof mounted RV specific antenna like the Winegard which does work pretty good actually, products from http://www.antennasdirect.com

If you need additional information I’ll try to help. I actually was a TV and satellite engineer among other things and enjoyed playing one on TV.

Bill

GENECOP · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill and Linda wrote:
Nothing special about this antenna – have one like it about 10 feet from me and have had it for over 10 years. Having a pre-amp is a very good thing but it is just a planar antenna, and not particularity directional. Range - well it depends as I always say.

Most TV stations are now on UHF as it is the preferred band now for a lot of reasons I won’t bore you with. Once VHF was, not so much now due to interference and lower power levels required by the FCC on VHF as opposed to UHF.

I did work on the digital TV transition / standards and testing, both the field testing in North Carolina and the Washington, DC FCC stuff as well. We learned a lot about antennas and digital TV. The laws of physics hadn’t changed, but digital, while giving better results, doesn’t like ghosts. (Technical term is multi-path.) Some of these antennas are not very directional and sometimes that can cause reception issues as they don’t do well with signal ghosts.

These antennas also don’t work as well with VHF as they do with UHF, but, as I said, most stations are UHF.

Your best bet is a RV roof antenna with a pre-amp. But this little antenna will work as well as any of its peers – just don’t expect more than the design allows.

I also suggest, independent of a roof mounted RV specific antenna like the Winegard which does work pretty good actually, products from http://www.antennasdirect.com span>

If you need additional information I’ll try to help. I actually was a TV and satellite engineer among other things and enjoyed playing one on TV.

Bill
Bill, thanks for always clearing up the confusion....

charles · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill,
Good info thanks.
In our TT we have the standard crank up Wingard antenna with a booster that was factory installed.
Would one of the indoor antenna boosters at the site you mention get better coverage for us? I guess with the setup that we have left in place. (Appears that one of those "color" boxes on the home page.)

In a related matter, a number of Evergreen TT owners have complained about TV reception but the consensus seems to be that the antenna must be aimed AT the station due to all now HD.
Coupled with what you mention about no " ghosts" now.
Really appreciate your help.

Thanks again for all of the hard info in your post.
CCC

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

charles wrote:
Bill,
Good info thanks.
In our TT we have the standard crank up Wingard antenna with a booster that was factory installed.
Would one of the indoor antenna boosters at the site you mention get better coverage for us? I guess with the setup that we have left in place. (Appears that one of those "color" boxes on the home page.)

In a related matter, a number of Evergreen TT owners have complained about TV reception but the consensus seems to be that the antenna must be aimed AT the station due to all now HD.
Coupled with what you mention about no " ghosts" now.
Really appreciate your help.

Thanks again for all of the hard info in your post.
CCC

Actually the Wingard “booster” (at least the new ones), which is a pre-amp, is a pretty good device as is. You don’t want to put another one in-line or in series (i.e. have one feed another one.) That won’t work and could cause more reception issues.

The best thing you can do is actually to add a Wingard “Wingman” for about $20-$30 to the batwing you own. This is a self install antenna addition to the RV “batwing” antenna and makes the antenna have more gain (works better) at UHF. The batwing antenna that has been on RV’s for 30 years (I guess) was designed for VHF when all the stations were indeed on VHF back in the analog days. This little addition improves the UHF reception and adds directivity to the antenna. Very easy to install – you won’t know its working, you’ll just sometimes get stations you otherwise wouldn’t get.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/winegard-wingman/44021

Antenna pointing – now there is dark art. Yes, the antenna reception should work best when pointing directly at the station – but then there is reality. Let me just say (and I’ve keeping this simple to not make this a three page post) point the antenna toward the stations – but then use the signal meter on the TV to “peak” the pointing for the best signal. That’s how you do it. Naturally if there are multiple stations in different directions you just have to compromise the pointing if you want to get them all.

That’s the great thing about digital TV (HD / SD - all "TV" is digital now - well almost) – if you can get the TV set to lock on the signal – and its solid, you really don’t care if the antenna is pointed 90 degrees from the station or not. Go for the best signal on the TV set meter. This meter is really telling you the quality of the signal, not just how strong it is. So maybe the best “quality” (i.e. a lack of ghosting) is 90 degrees away from the station. This can happen many times and is a lot like moving 3 feet with a cell phone and the signal clears up. That can be a “ghost” or better put, multi-path, as well.

Have I confused you fully now?

Hope that helps a bit. If not, aks and I'll try to answer.

Bill

charles · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill,

Perfect info thanks a million.
As they say in New Orleans, "You Da Man."
I have copied all that you post and put it in one post to post to my EVERGREEN LIST.
Of course under your name!

CCC

Trabuco · RV-Dreams Family Member

I just installed a Wineguard sensor 4 and the pictures are great! It has an amp and that makes all the difference world. With that said I'm currently in Southern California so there is no shortage of channels.

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

this link will give you all the stations available for antenna reception digital..........just put in the zip for the area your in and it will list and give you the direction

http://transition.fcc.gov/bureaus/mb/engineering/maps/index.html?zipCode=03819

Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry

-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Tuesday 17th of July 2012 09:53:36 AM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Trabuco wrote:
I just installed a Wineguard sensor 4 and the pictures are great! It has an amp and that makes all the difference world. With that said I'm currently in Southern California so there is no shortage of channels.

Yes indeed. The pre-amp is very important, but the one in the antenna is enough.

In general, if you add the Wingman antenna to any existing Sensor antenna that has a pre-amp they “become” a Sensor IV.

BTW, don’t confuse the channel number of the station, the number you input to “tune” a station, like channel “3,” with the actual channel the TV station is transmitting on.

By that I mean, the actual/real TV channel the TV station has been assigned by the FCC and the channel it “says it is on you TV screen” are no longer directly related. The displayed channel is a “virtual” channel, not “real” as it was in the analog days. So the fact you see a lot of VHF channels does not mean they actually transmit on those VHF channels – they may be on UHF and most are.

If anyone cares why, ask. But I just thought I would clear up that little detail as you do “see” a lot of VHF stations, but they aren’t really there.

Isn’t this fun?

Bill

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Lucky Mike wrote:
this link will give you all the stations available for antenna reception digital..........just put in the zip for the area your in and it will list and give you the direction

http://transition.fcc.gov/bureaus/mb/engineering/maps/index.html?zipCode=03819

This is a great site originally developed by the broadcast industry and put out by the FCC. If you click on the station’s listed call letters, e.g. WBTV, it will show the direction from the address you supplied to the station along with the actual channel number it is transmitting on. At the bottom of that drop down, once you have clicked, you will see a “Gain / Loss” map. That will show additional information as the theoretical coverage of the station along with other technical details.

Finally, on the map itself, you can move the location - “!” - pointer around and put it right on your campsite thus giving you even more accurate directional information for those who might care.

Neat site for over-the-air - antenna reception. There are more like this one but they get somewhat technical. However, this one, in addition to the US TV stations has the Canadian TV stations – some of which are digital but many are still, and will continue to be, analog.

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php

Bill

Camper_Boy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hi All,

On topic, I am looking to replace my raise/lower Wingard antenna. Ours has a damaged crank handle and the shaft is damaged from the set screw. I tried to repair but no luck. I was trying to research internet for a fixed no crank up or rotate unit to replace. Is their a such thing or do I need to just get a new Wingard unit?

Thanks, Tom

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

All the parts for your winguard are available online.... and on E-bay

some have converted the outside head with a Jack Ant. and like it....a little research will go a long way and save alot of money , I use an amplified unit From antenna craft that works very well for me

Camper_Boy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks, Mike,

I think I just want to replace with a stationary type. The kind that does not have a crank up and manual turn. Are their any brands or types you are familiar, that install in same roof hole for install?

Thanks, Tom

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Im so used to the crank up I dont know.......never saw one that sat flat with a manual turn

Camper_Boy · RV-Dreams Family Member

This might be a stupid question, but we all know there is no stupid questions...right!!! We tell our kids that.

Ok, on subject with reception to the HD Flat screen TV's...we have added the HD extender to the original Wingard and have had good successs, but now for some reason we cannot locate a single channel. it might be that we are in a non signal area, but its been the last several places we've been, including Portland, Or area. We should get some static channels, right.

My question is if we can get a plain old radio to pick up stations, shouldn't we be able to get TV reception?

Anyway thanks for reading and I'm sure someone will chime in...

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Each time you move or remove power from the coach you will have to aim the antenna and Re-scan the channels.....if you are not going to set-up on the tv and rescanning that could be the reason your getting nothing......also have a compass handy and use this website to find the local channels

transition.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/dtvmaps/
hope this helps!!

Camper_Boy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mike, I've scanned and re-scanned in all directions. It won't pick up anything. I thought the switch box was bad, so we disconnected and connected directly to the TV and still nothing. It seems to me I should get something, even a static channel. All 3 TV's are the same...keep in mind all these worked in the past, and this set up has no power boost/amp button. Just trying to zero in on maybe a component problem or wiring issue. Thanks

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Camper_Boy wrote:
Mike, I've scanned and re-scanned in all directions. It won't pick up anything. I thought the switch box was bad, so we disconnected and connected directly to the TV and still nothing. It seems to me I should get something, even a static channel. All 3 TV's are the same...keep in mind all these worked in the past, and this set up has no power boost/amp button. Just trying to zero in on maybe a component problem or wiring issue. Thanks

Tom:

Mike's info is 100% correct. But if you will tell me where you are located I'll check the charts and see if you "should" be able to receive any channels. Lat Long is best but even a city address will work if you don't mind providing the info. There are places where there are not off-air channels available due to many factors.

Bill

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

I just also thought of something....its posible for the cable from the ant to the roof outlet is wet or bad....run a cable off the antenna directly to the tv and see if it works

Camper_Boy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hi Bill,

We are at 98362 zip code and 40 Sieberts rd near Port Angeles, WA.

I will try the cable thing and let you know if direct hook up works. Thanks

Camper_Boy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Ok, tried the external cable and same results...not a channel to be had...Might just be availability of signal...looks like its trying to pull in from Canada...BC with no luck.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Camper_Boy wrote:
Ok, tried the external cable and same results...not a channel to be had...Might just be availability of signal...looks like its trying to pull in from Canada...BC with no luck.

Tom: OK, correct about the Canadian stations. You might get them, but sort of doubt it. However, Canada and the US have the same type of digital stations.

There is one US station in Port Angeles. However, it is a low repeater for KIRO out of Seattle. Virtual / Display channel 7 but the RF (actual operating channel) is 30.

The rest are in Canada and well over 20 miles away with some obstructions between you and them.

It is possible the repeater mentioned for KIRO - K30FL-D - isn’t even on the air or it is possible the PSIP – techo talk for the data which makes the TV receiver actually recognize the station and tune it - is messed up. Happens with some repeaters. It depends on how its done by KIRO.

We really enjoyed that area last year and there is a great bayside restaurant in the town. Wish I could think of the name but the food was great. Went back two or three times. TV reception – not so much. According to my travel log: "No TV that mattered."

BTW, the FCC data from the link Mike sent can some times be out of date with reality. That link is my first resource as well but can have listings for stations authorized to be built but not yet completed (or never will be.) The info above is from another database resource but a bit more confusing to the more "normal RVer" so to speak.

Enjoy the view – or the DVD collection as we did during our time there. I think your off-air system will be fine when you move to another location with some stations.

Bill

Camper_Boy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks Bill and Mike,

I kind of thought the signal was weak. I just thought it was weird the TV's got nothing in the last couple places. We will revisit when we return to civilization.

Bill, just noticed in your signature you have a New Horizon. You had the KZ all decked out...what made you switch?

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Camper_Boy wrote:
Thanks Bill and Mike,

I kind of thought the signal was weak. I just thought it was weird the TV's got nothing in the last couple places. We will revisit when we return to civilization.

Bill, just noticed in your signature you have a New Horizon. You had the KZ all decked out...what made you switch?

Tom,

Well, that’s a somewhat long story but basically we thought it was time because Linda said so. Not part of this tread but you asked:

First, we loved the KZ Escalade and still think in its era it was a very high quality rig and as good as anything in its class. Everything still worked perfectly. Service from the KZ factory (never went to a dealer for service) was outstanding. Best we’ve ever had or probably ever will have.

We had been thinking about another rig and planned to make a decision when we got back from Alaska in 2014 and buy something in 2015. At least that was the plan. We had been to all the appropriate manufactures from DRV to Forks to, etc., etc. and for one reason or another no one except Forks would build what we had in the KZ Escalade; basically duplicate it in layout, quality and functionality without me having to do a lot of the infrastructure work myself. Forks could do it but Forks is just too heavy for our travels.

Sooo, we stopped by New Horizons on the way out west and they said they could / would build what we wanted: a Majestic quality inside but in a 96” rig that inside is actually only 3” narrower than typical 102” trailers. They also lifted and modified the frame such that a “super pickup,” as Jack likes to call them, would have proper bedrail clearance as well as exceptional ground clearance – but with a 6’4” ceiling in the bedroom (worst case) and still be well under 13’3” tall. They would install solar and the like properly and make changes to keep the pin weight in check so we could use our existing truck if we wanted to or a new pickup without a hauler bed. It all works either way with this rig.

Well, after several days (actually about 9) of design work Linda said, “Build it.” So we did.

We were very happy with the KZ Escalade and it will make someone a great rig. But Linda said “build it” to the designer at NH. A neat guy and fun to drive nuts with ideas and “requirements.” He did a good job in our view and Jack naturally helped. “No Jack, I don’t want an HDT. Been there, done that.” All in good fun.

New Horizons isn’t for everyone. But if you are willing to invest the time and effort they can build the rig you want and not what everyone else wants so to speak. (We changed the slide sizes 3 times in the design phase.) These are custom and not just “optioned” and the Escalade had become, for us, quite custom.

There is more to it but that’s kind of the short version. We were going to Alaska but New Horizons got in the way this year. We’ll take the Majestic to Newfoundland next year and Alaska again in 2016 Lord willing. This is a traveling rig, not a “sitter.”

More info if you ever want it but NH now has a rig designed for those that want a lot inside but in a slightly smaller package outside with great clearances and a huge amount of storage space. I know, we built the prototype. Linda said I needed to build something again. Maybe that was the real reason: Linda said I needed to build something.

Thanks for asking.

Bill

Camper_Boy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill, we to are getting to itch to switch to something new to us. Our direction is a bit different this time. We are considering a tag axle diesel pusher this time. Possibly a Monaco, Newmar, or Travel Supreme. Looking to go all electric this time.

Did you sell KZ? If so what marketing did you do to sell?

Anyway good luck on your build...sounds like fun. Thanks, Tom

PS. say hi to Linda for us...

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Camper_Boy wrote:
Bill, we to are getting to itch to switch to something new to us. Our direction is a bit different this time. We are considering a tag axle diesel pusher this time. Possibly a Monaco, Newmar, or Travel Supreme. Looking to go all electric this time.
Did you sell KZ? If so what marketing did you do to sell?
Anyway good luck on your build...sounds like fun. Thanks, Tom
PS. say hi to Linda for us...

Tom:

Good luck on your change as well. When you make a change from a rig you like it’s always “interesting.” Don’t know how you will duplicate the space for the 5 of you in a MH. Let us know how that goes for sure.

We traded the KZ to NH. They offered to take it in trade early on in the conversation. Said they don’t usually take trades but were impressed with the Escalade’s condition. Maybe they were just making us feel good; who knows. But it was in really great shape including the paint. We felt the deal was fair and it simplified the transfer of our “stuff” and related infrastructure to the Majestic. That made it a lot easier for us. They did try to accommodate our needs in most ways.

Linda says “Hi!” back to you, Marci and the boys.

Bill

Joe_Camper · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill and Linda wrote:
charles wrote:
Let me just say (and I’ve keeping this simple to not make this a three page post) point the antenna toward the stations –

Have I confused you fully now?

Bill

Bill, I remember my first day of class for antenna theory that the instructor said, "this is going to sound like magic, some of it you just need to believe and don't question it"! LOL!

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Joe_Camper wrote:
Bill and Linda wrote:
charles wrote:
Let me just say (and I’ve keeping this simple to not make this a three page post) point the antenna toward the stations –

Have I confused you fully now?

Bill
Bill, I remember my first day of class for antenna theory that the instructor said, "this is going to sound like magic, some of it you just need to believe and don't question it"! LOL!

Joe:

Indeed so. And that is sometimes the problem with answering very reasonable questions with sometimes seemingly overly simple answers or sometimes even answers that sound condescending. They are not intended to be, but without pages of explanation we do the best we can to help with “try this” responses and trust for the best outcome.

It’s easier at rallies where you can have more interaction and see if the communication is helping or just MEGO-ing in someone’s mind. MEGO in my former world stood for My Eyes Glaze Over. "It’s only hard if you don’t know how."

Yea, try to explain why too much antenna or pre-amp gain can be a bad thing – that more is not always better. RF is still RF and the laws of physics haven’t changed just because it’s WiFi or “digital.” And then there’s the virtual TV channel thing. You know: “Yes, I know it’s says channel 3 on the campground sheet and that is (low) VHF but it’s really UHF and on channel 24 and that’s why you need the UHF antenna add on for better reception even though the picture quality never changes.”

Thanks, I appreciate your comment very much.

Bill