Neil

 

Having just gone through this with a slightly lighter weight design I’ll offer these thoughts for your evaluation.

 

First, how does the F450 ride solo?  The new 2011 and up Ford F-350 and Chevy 3500HD’s have significantly improved rides.  Like way better than the 2010’s and older trucks.  How does the 2012 F-450 ride solo?  If really good then the bags probably won’t help all that much loaded or solo.  (Assuming these are adjustable with an on board pump, etc. such that they can be adjusted for solo or loaded conditions.)

 

From a loaded standpoint obviously the F-450 doesn’t need them due to pin load.  The truck will level just fine and the Trailer Saver will protect the trailer and truck from excessive vertical force.

 

I find the air bags – adjustable that is – allow you to keep the last leaf spring from taking the load (with the trailer) and I think the ride is improved somewhat.  But this is very subjective.  I do reduce the air pressure when running solo.  Seems to be the right thing to do – subjectively that is as to ride quality.

 

My truck doesn’t need them based on the last 4,000 towing miles and 1,000 or so solo miles.  It runs spot on level with or without air in the bags.  It is just the bags take some of the load and “probably” give a better ride then the last set of springs.

 

Would I do it again?  Yea, probably.  Do I need them?  No, absolutely not.  (I have an air ride king pin.)

 

YMMV when it comes to an F-450.

 

Let us know.  It will be interesting.

 

Bill

I have a LINK air suspension on the rear of my C4500 Chevy. Empty the ride is OK as long as you're not on rough pavement (potholes, cracks, bumpy...etc). On rough pavement the ride is choppy...however most of that comes from the front axle (straight axle with leaf springs). The rear is stiff.

Once I put the 3000 lbs of hitch weight on the non-airbag 5th wheel hitch the rear begins to feel like the ride of a cadillac. The front axle is still choppy in the rough stuff.

That being said, the ride isn't any better than my old 3500 with leaf springs and overload springs on the rear.

I would say a better choice might be a set of springs from Deaver Springs. I've heard good things about the ride provided when using the Deaver Springs along with a good shock setup like Bilsteins.

You might try looking for a Ford truck forum.

I found a MDT chevy truck forum at www.dieselplace.com that is very helpful.

Neil:

FWIW, I think the air-bags are a good decision if the budget can afford them.  Now after 20,000+ miles and a year of service, including a nice trip down – and up - the Rockies, etc., I’m glad I have them.  A great towing experience.  While not necessary to keep the Chevy 3500HD and rig level (and by the way we have a quite high pin weight due to generators, etc. – I know exactly what it is and it is well within the truck specs) the bags do give me some nice options when towing other rigs, etc.

Many times you only get to do this once, so do it right the first time if you can.

Safe travels

Bill

Terry and Jo wrote:

---

With respect to the "squat" factor of the F450, once you are hooked up to the trailer, is the trailer level?  If the trailer is level after the squat, adding the air bags to compensate for the squat might throw some extra weight on the rear axles of the New Horizons when the truck bed is raised back up.  If that occurs, you may see worse tire wear on those axles carrying the heavier weight.

---

If that happens, which is unlikely, it is usually the other way around, then you should adjust the height of the hitch to make the trailer level when the truck is Ievel.  The truck and trailer, both, should ride level for proper weight distribution.

Naturally all of the above assumes the trailer is high enough in the first place to ride level and also give appropriate bed rail clearance.  Bed rail clearance is the most difficult issue in all these "get it level" issues - especially with the 2011 and forward trucks.  That was one the reason I opted for an RV Hauler bed which is not always an option for all.  But is, in most cases, the more ideal solution allowing everything to be perfectly level and have lots of bed rail clearance.

Bill

Neil and Connie wrote:

---

We actually have a slight down angle on the trailer (I think, never checked it with a level but from trailer level I have to lower the front end a bit to hitch up…then it gets raised a bit when the hitch is inflated but I don't know if the latter completely counteracts the former; don't think so but will check it) when hitched up and the TrailerSaver hitch is inflated so the air springs should restore both the truck and trailer to level. Once I  get the springs installed I'll get out a level and verify both truck and trailer; and will adjust the towing height of the hitch as Bill suggests by changing the air pressure to adjust the height a bit if necessary. 

---

Neil, as a point of clarification, most in bed 5^th wheel hitches have a vertical adjustment capability.  In addition to the air bags on the truck which can be used to level the truck when hitched up, you can then adjust the 5^th wheel hitch height to level the trailer.  You also want to put the recommend amount of air in the trailer saver air ride hitch and not necessarily use it to level the trailer.  The key here is to use all of these vertical adjustments to get everything as level as you can without compromise of any individual height (i.e. level) if possible.  This puts the proper and designed weight on all of the axles.  BTW, if the truck is squatting, it then reduces weight on the steer axle and tires of the truck.  That reduces steering effectiveness.  That’s another reason for all this trouble to get everything as close as possible.  It really does make a big difference when towing if everything is spot on level.   Bill

-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Saturday 20th of April 2013 09:04:20 AM

Neil and Connie wrote:

---

I'll take a look and see if the TrailerSaver has a ride height adjustment ability; I don't remember seeing anything about it in the manual. It's mounted to a plate mounted in the bed of the truck and I guess it could have small spacers added between the plate and hitch but other than that and the lift that the airbags in the hitch add I'm not sure it has any. The air bags are in the rear of the hitch and it pivots around a shaft at the front end to raise and lower.

Neil:

The vertical height of the Trailer Saver (that I am familiar with - the TS-3) has a 2” or 3” spacer kit to adjust vertical height mechanically. 2” - PN 46250, 3” - PN 46350  That is for the TS-3 Hitch.  This is how the vertical height of the hitch plate is adjusted independently of the air bags such that the bags can be inflated correctly independent of the needed hitch ride height.  Bill

 

We do have the TSLB model since the New Horizons is a bit heavier. Haven't had our final rig weighed yet but we are planning on meeting Howard and Linda in Colorado Springs in a few weeks and having it done since we'll happen to be in the same place as them.

I looked and our hitch does have what looks like spacers underneath the hitch itself and above the mounting plate; I can't really tell if they're a permanent part of the hitch or something they added. New Horizons did the hitch install in our truck; I presume that they added it (based on looking at the pictures on the TrailerSaver web site) to get the level to where it needs to be. We've got 2 bags in the rear of the hitch and one up under the front end. Once we get weighed and have the air springs installed I'll have to figure out whether I need the additional bag and/or some level adjustment.

Edited: looked at the manual online and it appears that we already have the third air bag as it is the one under the front end of the hitch to go along with the 2 under the rear end. I will check with them on the height adjust while we are there at the factory in a couple of weeks.

 

 

 

-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Tuesday 23rd of April 2013 02:46:55 PM

Neil and Connie wrote:

---

One more question before I order parts. Since the Airlift springs have a standard valve for inflating using an air compressor, do I really need to spend the extra 500 or so for the built in compressor option or is just doing a manual inflation adequate? We don't drive the truck not towing and Airlift support tells me the springs can remain inflated when not towing with the only issue being a harder ride if inflated and not towing. Given those facts it seems that single inflation is the best option over separate left and right inflation and since the correct inflation pressure for our rig won't change from week to week maybe I don't need to spend the bucks for a separate compressor. If I were going to deflate at every unhitching the compressor is worth it but it seems like its a luxury I don't really need. Thoughts?

---

If, and that is a big “if” you don’t plan to drive the truck solo, then probably not necessary to get the pump.  However, it sure makes it easy to fine tune the ride, but not “necessary” IMO.  Just remember that adding the pump and control later will be more expensive than during the initial installaion.  Bill

Neil and Connie wrote:

---

Bill and Linda wrote:

---

If, and that is a big “if” you don’t plan to drive the truck solo, then probably not necessary to get the pump.  However, it sure makes it easy to fine tune the ride, but not “necessary” IMO.  Just remember that adding the pump and control later will be more expensive than during the initial installaion.

---

I'll have to think on it then, it isn't like we can't afford to do it but wanted to see if it was completely unnecessary or not. I don't think we'll ever use the pickup as our only vehicle; we spend a good deal of time while parked going around to see things and do things and 10 or so mpg in the truck just doesn't cut it over the long run. Besides; Connie likes to have her alone time driving while we are moving, that makes it even more unlikely

Given the additional expense if it's added later and the ability to fine tune the ride (although I'm not sure how much difference I would see by varyng 5 pounds of pressure at a time but maybe small variations are more noticeable than I think) we'll probably go ahead and get them. 

I just wanted to make sure that the answer wasn't "don't bother; they aren't worth it" before going ahead.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Neil:

Again, FWIW, we do use the truck solo – a lot.  Linda says “it rides like a Cadillac” and so we enjoy our side trips in the truck very much.  However, we find the ride is best, for our truck, with ~20psi solo and 85psi loaded with the rig. It took us about 1,000 miles of various road conditions before we, and the trailer finally said, “Perfect” as to the numbers.  Naturally the Ford / Chevy suspensions are a bit different in design and so will react differently.  Not better or worse – different.  So some of this is “necessary” and some of it is “because we can and we want to do it.”  Enjoy your rig either way as we do.  Bill