Ride of the Ford F-550 vs. F-450 - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Lynn and Ed · RV-Dreams Family Member

Ride of the Ford F-550 vs. F-450

Racerguy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Maybe Jack Mayer will chime in but I think you would be a prime candidate for a HDT.They can be bought many times for less than an F-450/550 and do a much better job pulling and stopping something that heavy.

Camper_Boy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Lyn, welcome to the forum...I know the confusion in towing numbers. I however run thru the towing numbers all the time at work in the industry. The hard and fast rule is the Ford Towing Guide is the gospel. The new 2012 F450 is rated at 24500lbs (6.7L w/6R140trans) and GCVW is 33000lbs. As far as ride and comfort...I have a 2008 F450 and did nothing to the suspension to tow my 43 ft 21000lbs toyhauler. It rides and stops with no problems. I would take a dealers word with a grain of salt...ie. sales guys will try and get you into a more expensive buy. The F450 is available with bed and hitch from the factory while a F550 is not. You would need to aftermarket a bed and hitch. The need for a F550 is in my opinion overkill. I would also re-think whether or not to go with 4x4. A 4x2 is lighter and the need for 4x4 is few times for the added hardware and weight.

Hope this was helpful.

Lynn and Ed · RV-Dreams Family Member

Camper_Boy. Thank you for the welcome as well as the very helpful information. It is good to know the dealer was not correct about the reduced towing capabilities of the 2012 F-450.

Racerguy. Thank you. I have read most (if not all) of Jack Mayer’s blog entries on HDT as well as entries on a wide other assortment of topics. Jack is extremely knowledgeable and at one point had us questioning if a HDT was our only viable option (i.e., he and other make a persuasive argument), but we ultimately decided we would be more comfortable with the choice of a F-450 or similar truck.

Camper_Boy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Lyn, what part of the country are you in? Might expain, dealer info.?

I to read Jack's blog and take his experience in fulltimming useful. I to considered a HDT but now the medium duties can perform well with the heavier 5th wheels. Which 5er are you considering?

Lynn and Ed · RV-Dreams Family Member

We are in our initial few months of research, but we have already narrowed down the manufacturer to New Horizons. We like the quality, layout and the fact that we can customize pretty much anything that we want. We will keep an open mind and look at other manufactures, but the given information that I read about New Horizons, they are our likely choice. Now we just have to see a New Horizons RV in-person ... given we live in the North East, we are planning to attend the Hersey show in the Fall.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Lyn,

With all due respect to the guides and what-have-you, I would recommend at the minimum a full MDT or a HDT for a New Horizons weighing that much. As far as I am concerned, the "tow ratings" are only useful as a very rough guide. The number you want to pay attention to is the GCVW. On an F450, that is 33,000 lbs. and towing a New Horizons would probably exceed that limit.

And you don't want to exceed the GCVW of a truck, if you want a safe rig.

We have a Mobile Suites with a GVWR of 18,500 lbs. Our 2008 Ford F450 has a GVWR of 14,500 lbs (a 2012's GVWR is 13,300), so if I were to get anywhere near the GVWR on my our truck, I would probably reach the GCVW of the truck and not give me any "cushion" as to weight.

(18,500 + 14,500 = 33,000 lbs.)

While a Ford F450 is "technically" an MDT, it is at the low end of the MDT spectrum. Since I like a cushion for weight, I am pleased that Jo and I traded our Mercury Mariner for a Ford F150. I can put a cap (topper, shell, etc) on that F150 and spread our weight out even more by utilizing the fivers storage, the F450 bed, and the F150's bed.

Had you not decided on the New Horizons, the F450 would be sufficient. I wouldn't even consider the F550 because it isn't that much better than the F450, if is is at all.

However, good luck with your research. As for the ride, I am pleased with the F450, as long as we don't get on some of Oklahoma's elevated turnpike stretches. We also prefer the F450 as a pickup because it give us a lot more visibility around the truck. An MDT or HDT can limit one's vision.

Terry

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

New Horizons, as you know, are simply very heavy and big trailers. If I were you I would contact Jack Mayer who is a representative for New Horizons. Jack has personal and direct experience with F-550’s, HDT’s and the New Horizon trailer. He will most likely encourage you to go to an HDT. But he also knows the facts and I am sure will be happy to advise you with firsthand knowledge on all these issues.

http://jackdanmayer.com/

If you want an F-550 MOR/ryde makes a suspension upgrade for the Ford which I can personally recommend which will improve significantly the “truck ride.” It isn’t that expensive when compared to the entire project.

Bill

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

If you think you are going with a New Horizons at 39' you will very likely end up with something in excess of 40'. People that start configuring custom rigs almost always end up with a bigger rig than they start the process with. My 42' NH loaded for fulltiming is just under 23,000lbs.While technically it could be pulled with an F450 I sure would not want to.....I have been there and done that. It is my belief, based on experience, that an F450 really tops out at around a 20-21K trailer. After that you really should consider a proper MDT or HDT. Or if you feel those are "impossible" for some reason then go with a smaller trailer. It might help to know why you feel an HDT is not suitable.

I owuld suggest that you get all the data you can on "real" tow vehicles for heavy trailers. I would also encourage you to attend the HDT Rally in KS in October, if you can swing it. You will see not only HDTs, but get a great deal of education on fulltimers RVs, be able to visit the NH plant, and get to drive HDTs. You will also see HDTs with smart cars piggyback on them. While an HDT is not the answer for everyone, most people have a great deal of misconceptions about them.....for a heavy trailer it is the most flexible and comfortable solution.

Feel free to contact me privatley if you want. I'm happy to answer questions on New Horizons, HDTs , and general towing issues. And don't forget, I have a VERY nice NH for sale at a very good price.

TheHarveys · RV-Dreams Family Member

My wife and I tow our Carri-Lite with a Ford F550. Granted, our truck is a 2000 model so, in stock form, it is not as powerful as the new ones. However, we have spent quite a bit of money on the truck to make it into a hauler that is quite capable of towing our trailer. We have towed our trailer all across the country, including over the continental divide and up into the mountains in Colorado and Utah.
The stock suspension on our truck is quite stiff...especially the rear suspension. However, once we hitch up the trailer, the ride smooths out and is actually very comfortable. We have logged as much as 550 to 600 miles in a single day. Normally, we try to keep our daily distances down in the 350 to 400 mile range and that is very doable.
With a heavy trailer, (ours, loaded for a trip, weighs in the neighborhood of 17,500 to 18,000 lbs), unless you go to a large MDT like a Freightliner or International, or a HDT, you will likely exceed at least one of your truck's weight ratings. I think the rear axle on the Ford F450 is only rated at 9500 lbs. I am betting that, with the hitch weight of a New Horizons added to the weight of your truck, you will exceed the rear axle weight rating by a fairly large amount. On my truck, I am at the weight limit for towing weight (17,500 lb), even though I am nowhere near the rear axle limit of 13,330 lbs or the 6500 lb front axle weight rating. The number I DO exceed is the GCWR, the gross combined weight rating. That number for my truck is 26,000 lbs. The last time I weighed my truck and trailer combined, they weighed in at almost 28,000 lbs.
However, we have disc brakes on the trailer, airbags, stage 2 ATS transmission, and an exhaust brake as well as many other mods on the truck. So, we feel fine about towing our trailer. However, I would love to buy a HDT to tow my trailer, but my wife uses the F550 as her daily driver, (she loves it), and I have not been able to talk her out of it. In summation, Even though we love our Ford and have spent several thousand dollars on it, if I were to consider buying a 22,000 lb trailer, We would definitely go heavy duty.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jeff’s post brings up an issue that is worth emphasizing to anyone reading this thread. That is the differences in capabilities, i.e. towing specifications, of trucks from different model years. The “badges” on the side of the trucks, F-350, F-550, 3500HD, 2500, etc. are meaningless. As an example, depending on the model year the “3500’s / F-350” are far more capable than some F-450 / F-550’s from the past. Same is true for GM 4500 / 5500’s vs. the “newer trucks.”

The point is that each year truck has its own specifications and what the marketing department put on the side of the truck is of little interest when selecting a vehicle – period. It’s what’s under the sheet metal that counts.

As another minor but interesting point, many of the newer “trucks” which are rated at 30,000+ lbs combined weight, have better rides, solo, than some F-150’s / 1500 trucks. It just depends and it is wise to do your own research, take test drives and find out for yourself, as Jack suggested, what is right for you. Things are not as they once were when you could just purchase a truck based on the name plate and the numbers on the side.

And, for what it is worth, I would have an HDT if my trailer weighed 23,000lbs. But it doesn’t and so the ratings for my truck handle my trailer very well. But it is a 2012 – Chevy 3500, not a 2003 – Chevy 3500. The only thing these two trucks have in common is the 3500 on the side. (The same would be true for Dodge or Ford.)

My 2 cents

Bill

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

The rear GAWR on a 2012 F450 is 9000 lbs. The empty truck is around 8200, but loaded for fulltiming will be around 9500 minimum. The payload rating is 5260. A trailer in the 21K range is going to very nearly, or actually, overload the rear axle if you put much else in the bed. Figure on 20% of the trailer weight is the pin weight.

I can tell you from experience that in the 20K area the new F450 does a reasonable job handling the trailer. But IMO it is pretty much at its limits. So when you get into that weight area is when you have to start looking at alternatives and at least considering them. Again, IMO, based on years of experience.

Many people say "I don't want a big truck as my daily driver" (distinguishing between a "pickup" like an F450 and a "big truck"like a true MDT - M2, Fl lets say - or an HDT like my Volvo....). The reality is that many - if not most - fulltimers have a secondary vehicle like Howard and Linda do if they have a larger capacity truck. For lots of reasons that Howard enumerates quite well on his website. I happen to think a smart piggyback on an HDT is an ideal combo. Not everyone thinks that way, though....some like a Jeep, some hate the smart (but most who hate it donot base it on facts). The point is that there are very good alternatives available that make your life and enjoyment of the road "better". Plus, there is always the ability to go to a motorhome as a solution.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack’s comments further reinforce the “check the exact specifications for each truck and trailer.”

Jack lists the 2012 F-450, an MDT truck by all specifications, as having a rear axle rating of 9,000lbs. The 2012 Chevy 3500HD has a rear axle rating of 9,350 lbs. While the 3500HD does not qualify as an MDT due to marketing weight ratings, it actually has higher ratings in some areas than some MDT’s. “It depends.” (This rear axle rating is in the manual and on the door of the truck.)

This is not said to say the Chevy is “better.” It just well illustrates that each truck has a specific rating and whatever brand it is one must carefully evaluate the specific truck and trailer combination as a package.

Good info Jack.

Bill

Ken & Sarah · RV-Dreams Family Member

We pull our Excel Limited, 18750 # loaded, with a 2007 F550, with air suspension and air fifth wheel, and it does a great job of it. In fact I had to pull the trailer, with no trailer brakes, for a couple hundred miles and never once did I have a problem stopping. Now to be sure I did not try to stop on a dime either. If you plan ahead the majority of the time you won't have any trouble. I, like the others, believe you need to look at a MDT or HDT. We do not have another vehicle to drive and all it takes is the desire to walk a bit, I always park at the fringe of a parking lot.
Happy researching.

Camper_Boy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Yes, I agree with all comments. I do however think rear axle ratio is important in selecting a rig. I run a 2008 F450 w/4.88 gears as newer 2011 and up run a 4.30 gear. Higher the gear ratio, generally more towing and payload. This difference in gearing is made up with the newer 6 speed transmission. In the end just be careful in choosing and you will be well served. I would always ask for the manufacturers specifications and make best choice.

On another note, I would be careful as to what aftermarket add ons you choose. Manufacturers do not design trucks to support these equipment upgrades. As such your vehicle warranty would likely be conpromised.

I would drive what ever you can and make best decision for your lifestyle.

Happy Trails

Lynn and Ed · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thank you all for your insights and suggestions! Clearly, a HDT would meet our towing needs. Given the tow vehicle may be our sole vehicle, we would prefer not to use a HDT – but obviously, safety is the most important decision criteria.

As I mentioned, we are currently researching our various options, with our actual purchase occurring a couple years in the future. I would prefer to spend the time researching now, than regret an uninformed decision. Although the New Horizons RVs are heavy, my understanding is that NH uses as well as recommends the F-450 for the RV weight that we are considering [which I know Jack and others do not agree with.] Since posting this question, we met a virtual RV-Dreams friend, who is purchasing a similar weight/length NH and plans to use the F-450 as their tow vehicle – and we are looking forward to learning about their experiences. We will also start considering ways that we could potentially minimize weight (e.g., what options we choose, personal items that we bring and, as needed, consider a shorter RV lengths that our planned 39’ [37’ + 2’for a King bed]).

Thank you for sharing your insights, passion and time, to help us make an informed decision.

P.S. Jack – thank you for your offer to ask you questions privately. We will likely take your up on your offer when we meet you in-person at a future RV Show, NH Rally and/or a RV-Dreams Rally--to ask you questions on a wide variety of topics.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

New Horizons uses and recommends an F450 up to the (around) 21-22K weight area. After that they recommend a heavier truck. The Ford F450 will technically be adequate at beyond those numbers. But both NH and I do not recommend that you max out the Ford 450. Pulling at a 33K level with this truck is not something I recommend. There is obviously some leeway in those numbers. And these are MY opinions. I'm not representing New Horizons on this....I am simply telling you what they have recommended in the past. It is up to the individual owner to make the call....some people contend that an F450 is "fine" hauling its max rated load. I have done it, and feel otherwise.

Lynn and Ed · RV-Dreams Family Member

Good news is with New Horizons just anounced use of an aluminum chassis construction (at least on some models), this means our future RV purchase could easily weigh 2,000 pounds less than origninally anticipated. With a 39' triple slide unit weighing approx. 15,560 lbs dry weight (with standard Majestic equipment) -- so fully loaded, we should be fine with a F-450.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack Mayer wrote:
Lyn, you should be good with an F450 with that size rig. No issue there.

I just hauled a 20K New Horizons with an F450 and it did fine. I would have preferred a different brake controller, but other than that the truck performed well.

Jack:

I’ll be interested in your take on this new NH aluminum frame and how much weight it saves vs. how much strength and capacity is given up in so many words. Have you seen it yet or is it just in prototype.

I am familiar with aluminum frames from my aircraft days but never seen it used in this capacity – at least in a consumer trailer frame.

(Amen on the brake controler.)

Bill

-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Saturday 28th of April 2012 08:33:31 PM

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Lyn, you should be good with an F450 with that size rig. No issue there.

I just hauled a 20K New Horizons with an F450 and it did fine. I would have preferred a different brake controller, but other than that the truck performed well.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill, the new frame will only be used in 39' and smaller units. You really don't give up anything in strength in practical terms. It was modeled in Solidworks and will be more than strong enough. Right now it is a model waiting for someone to build it. Aluminum frames have been used on towables before. It is just that they are expensive as compared to a steel frame. So they are not used unless needed. It will save about 2,000 lbs. depending on the length. This will allow use of a one ton truck, in some cases without duals. And in some cases allow use of a 3/4 ton. Although I'm not sure why one would do that. In fact, I'm not sure why one would use a SRW truck when you could have a dually. They are SO MUCH more stable that I can see no benefit in going SRW. But, then again, you see what I tow with... :)

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Touching on Jack's last comment, there is a couple that "used" to weigh RV's at rallies and such. He kept documented information, enough so that he shared his findings with weighing the RV's of about 99 DRV Suites models over the years.

His document that he provided gave all the pertinent weights for each of the units he weighed. However, what was really telling was information at the very bottom of the document. It stated that he found that 100% of the SRW trucks were overweight, based on the door sticker on each truck. Also very telling was that 60% of all DRW trucks that he weighed were also overweight.

Terry

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Very interesting. I get the picture and if the math works that would open up another market for them and for those not wanting a bigger MDT or HDT. (Even Airstream used steel frames so this is kind of unique.) I will keep that in mind for the future as that better fits our needs and perhaps some others as well.

I hope they will put their expected specs on the web site but until they build one you really don’t know for sure all the weights so I doubt that will happen – especially for a custom rig. We have to go back home right after the Rally (missed seeing you and Danielle) but on our way out west later this year we may be able stop by the plant and at least see the Cad drawing. That would be interesting.

(I agree – even if you don’t need them for a specific weight you really do “need” DRW for most 5’ers.)

Thanks very much

Bill

Neil and Connie · RV-Dreams Family Member

24,500 towing capacity is correct for the 2012 models; altough you also need to consider the GCVW limit as well.

Jo And Craig · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hello, all! I haven't posted in a while, but I have been keeping up with the posts and, especially, information regarding tow vehicles. The most important thing to me, as it should be, is the tow vehicle. We do not plan to full-time for about another year, but I have been reading as much as I can about all of the possible options and set-ups and, well, have been freaking out! I don't want a jinormous truck because it will also serve as our "pleasure" vehicle. (Don't take that the wrong way, please! :)) I don't want a vehicle so heavy and rigid that we can't enjoy exploring after dropping the 5er. I realize everyone has their favorite home or is leaning toward a specific unit, as am I. However, some units are much heavier than others. It seems the manufacturers of some of the heavier units are starting to build with more lightweight materials, as is New Horizons for units less than 39'. I have a few questions. If the unit is so heavy that it puts you over the top with a tow vehicle , wouldn't it make more sense to consider a lighter unit IF you don't want an over-the-top tow vehicle? Second, I have fallen in love with the Forest River Columbus 320RS by Palomino. This particular unit has a GVWR of 14,015 lbs. and is a fabulous unit, as far as I can tell. I really don't understand all of these numbers and calculations, but 14,015 is much less than all of these other numbers I am seeing here. It appears that not many (if any) in this forum have made any (much) mention of the Columbus units. Do you know something I don't? Lastly, with a unit of GVWR 14,015, would a F-350 suffice?

Many thanks to all of you experts out there for your thoughts!

P.S. Scubabek, if you are out there, I sent you a PM.

-- Edited by Mary Sunshine on Sunday 22nd of July 2012 12:04:09 PM

-- Edited by Mary Sunshine on Sunday 22nd of July 2012 12:06:31 PM

53 Merc · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mary Sunshine wrote:
I have a few questions. If the unit is so heavy that it puts you over the top with a tow vehicle , wouldn't it make more sense to consider a lighter unit IF you don't want an over-the-top tow vehicle? Second, I have fallen in love with the Forest River Columbus 320RS by Palomino. This particular unit has a GVWR of 14,015 lbs. and is a fabulous unit, as far as I can tell. I really don't understand all of these numbers and calculations, but 14,015 is much less than all of these other numbers I am seeing here. It appears that not many (if any) in this forum have made any (much) mention of the Columbus units. Do you know something I don't? Lastly, with a unit of GVWR 14,015, would a F-350 suffice?

Only one comment on this. Heavy generally means better/more substantial construction, using stronger frame material. Light weight means light weight material used in construction. Ya gets what ya pays for.

Jo And Craig · RV-Dreams Family Member

Wood? Aluminum? Wood? Aluminum? I'm thinking aluminum. Do you have any comments on the Columbus, Merc?

53 Merc · RV-Dreams Family Member

Nope, no personal experience with the Columbus. My comment is based on my personal experience with light weight for the length of trailer. Somewhere, they have to sacrifice weight, which equates to lower strength materials, or at least lower muscle. My rig is listed as a 31 ft, but is nearer 35 ft in length. It is by no means a lightweight, but that is one of the things that drew me to Sunnybrook back when they were building the Titan of yore. Ours is aluminum superstructure, like a great many of them in use today. We still weigh in heavy and that is mostly due to the double stacked frame. But, it is built to withstand the earthquake everytime we hook up and travel.

It would be interesting to know what the added load allowance is to reach the 14K GVWR is. That would give more information on what the dry weight of the rig is. Then clothes, food, utensils, water, propane and etc, etc, etc will add up toward the GVWR.

Go back up and re-read everything Jack Mayer posted. I trust Jack in all thing RVing. Good luck in your choices.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mary Sunshine wrote:
Again, great info everyone! I guess my question now would be... who would you say is the most popular manufacturer out there, and why? Money is not the issue, it's the floor plan. If we are going to full-time in the thing, I want to make sure it has a "spacious" feeling about it along with plenty of storage and great tank sizes, of course. There are soooo many manufacturers and models available nowadays, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to get everyone's opinions and reasoning. I realize it comes down to what we want, but your input is invaluable!

Mary, you said money was not the issue. Well then, New Horizons or Forks. “Most popular” IMO is not the question. Best build, New Horizons / Forks, would be at the top of my list. But these are not for the faint of wallet. You pretty much get what you pay for. And, assuming a few things, if you go with say a New Horizons, you will most likely need an HDT. Yes, an F-450/550 could do the task, but if you get a trailer in the class and weight most of these present, you really need an HDT. Really

New Horizons and Forks will build you pretty much any floor plan you want. (I’ve seen 55 foot units at Forks that will just blow your mind.) That’s why they are custom shops, Forks especially. It will be more like building a house with an architect, not going to visit an RV salesman. These two manufacturers have completely different business models than other more mass built trailers.

Check with Jack for a New Horizons and plan for quite an eye opening experience when you move to this class, and weight, of rig. Forks is probably worth a visit as well just for perspective. www.forksrv.com They are a smaller shop than New Horizons. That said, Jack will not steer you wrong.

Bill

-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Monday 23rd of July 2012 08:12:31 AM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

53 Merc wrote:
Somewhere, they have to sacrifice weight, which equates to lower strength materials, or at least lower muscle. My rig is listed as a 31 ft, but is nearer 35 ft in length. It is by no means a lightweight, but that is one of the things that drew me to Sunnybrook back when they were building the Titan of yore. Ours is aluminum superstructure, like a great many of them in use today. We still weigh in heavy and that is mostly due to the double stacked frame. But, it is built to withstand the earthquake everytime we hook up and travel.
It would be interesting to know what the added load allowance is to reach the 14K GVWR is. That would give more information on what the dry weight of the rig is. Then clothes, food, utensils, water, propane and etc, etc, etc will add up toward the GVWR.
Go back up and re-read everything Jack Mayer posted. I trust Jack in all thing RVing. Good luck in your choices.

Ken sure made the point. When trailers are “light,” relative to their length and options, you have to leave something out. What I have noticed is the lack of the double stacked frame and even thinner wood cabinets. The frames on some trailers I have seen the same length as ours are almost half the thickness as our 2007.

It sure is easy to reach these lower GVWR numbers when full-timeing or part-timing. You would really be surprised at the combined weight of things you pack in a rig.

Jo And Craig · RV-Dreams Family Member

Again, great info everyone! I guess my question now would be... who would you say is the most popular manufacturer out there, and why? Money is not the issue, it's the floor plan. If we are going to full-time in the thing, I want to make sure it has a "spacious" feeling about it along with plenty of storage and great tank sizes, of course. There are soooo many manufacturers and models available nowadays, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to get everyone's opinions and reasoning. I realize it comes down to what we want, but your input is invaluable!

So grateful for all the information. Thank you!!!

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jo,

I would imagine that the Ford F350 or the Dodge and GM 3500 series trucks would be very suitable for the size of trailer you are "currently" considering. I'm not sure of the configurations of the GM and Dodge trucks but one can get a Ford F350 with single rear wheels.

If you are in a truck with the single rear wheels, you will lose some stability and weight carrying capacity compared to the same model with dual rear wheels.

As the others mentioned, does that model you like have much in the way of "cargo carrying capacity?" If the manufacturerer doesn't list it as such, subtract the empty weight from the GVWR to see what the "CCC" would be for that trailer.

If you were to later consider that the model you are looking at wouldn't be good enough for you to "full-time" in, would your truck be sufficient to handle a larger trailer?

It is for that reason that many of us always advise to choose an RV before buying a truck. The old saying that you can't have too much truck but you can have too much trailer certainly applies. I know of an individual that towed a Mobile Suites (roughly 18,000 plus GVWR) with a 350/3500 series pickup. After he was unable to stop at at traffic light, even with enough space to stop, he traded for a bigger truck.

If a larger truck is not preferable, you might consider a large Class C or a Class A motorhome with a towed vehicle as your "get-around" vehicle.

Good luck with all the research and planning.

Terry

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mary Sunshine wrote:
Again, great info everyone! I guess my question now would be... who would you say is the most popular manufacturer out there, and why? Money is not the issue, it's the floor plan. If we are going to full-time in the thing, I want to make sure it has a "spacious" feeling about it along with plenty of storage and great tank sizes, of course. There are soooo many manufacturers and models available nowadays, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to get everyone's opinions and reasoning. I realize it comes down to what we want, but your input is invaluable!

So grateful for all the information. Thank you!!!

Jo,

Keeping in mind that prices will be higher, the New Horizons would be top of the line. Following those would be the DRV Suites models. Keystone, Open Range, Redwood also make good models, but look at the quality of all parts, especially of the frame, suspension, and axles. Those last three things serve as the very foundation of the fifth wheel trailers. Scrimping there can have adverse effects later.

Jo and I will be full-timing for some time to come with our Mobile Suites. Because of that, we have a Ford F450 for towing the fifth wheel and a Ford F150 as our "daily driver" as well as extra storage. (We have an ARE pickup topper ordered to cover what is stored in the bed of the F150.)

When we finally get to travel, our plans are to not travel all that far when moving from one camping spot to the next so that driving two vehicles is not a problem. In addition, having the second vehicle allows us to "scout" out RV sites or access to fuel stations for the tow vehicle and trailer.

Terry

Lynn and Ed · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mary,

You may wish to subscribe to RV Consumer Group (http://rv.org/) -- personally, I found the subcription to be invaluable, to help further focus our research on the RV manufactures that would best meet our needs. That way you can look at the quality as well as price range that would best meet your needs.

-- Edited by Lyn on Monday 23rd of July 2012 08:36:25 PM

Jo And Craig · RV-Dreams Family Member

WOW! What very helpful information, my friends, and I appreciate ALL of your information. Keep it coming! Yes, we will most certainly purchase our "home" first, but I'm just trying to figure out all of the angles/options/things to consider. The money stream is not endless and I'm a VERY frugal individual, but I'm not "cheap". I want to get my money's worth, for sure.

You guys are the best and we can't wait to get on the road. I suppose it will have to be 55 weeks from TODAY, when I can retire. It will probably be that long to clean out the S&B and get 'er sold! Keep the info coming. I'm in awe of your knowledge!!!

Jo And Craig · RV-Dreams Family Member

Oh, my goodness, Bill. Maybe I misspoke! I just looked up the New Horizons and, um, can't justify starting out at that much. Also, throughout my research I have read that 2-axles are better than 3. I do not recall the exact reason(s), but it has something to do with turning, I suppose? While the NH looked really nice, I'm just wondering if you might have something a little more moderate in mind?

VanMar · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mary Sunshine wrote:

Second, I have fallen in love with the Forest River Columbus 320RS by Palomino. This particular unit has a GVWR of 14,015 lbs. and is a fabulous unit, as far as I can tell.

Mary,

I was just getting ready to post the same question! DSW and I went to our first RV show in '09 and fell in like with the Montana 3400RL. That had been my RV Dream until the RV show we went to this spring. There, we found the Columbus 320RS. There were two things that really grabbed my attention. One: the leather theater seating that actually faced the TV. Two: The 30X60 shower! I'm 6'3" and weigh in around 190. Some of the showers in these RV's are so cramped I can hardly move so the big shower was a real selling point. Also, the price was right and the wife liked the rollaway kitchen island. This brand was new for 2012. I'm hoping that when we're ready to hit the road in '15 (or maybe '14 biggrin ) there will be some nice used '13's out there. BTW, the 'shipping' weight is 10,600. Whatever we get, we will most likely be towing it with a GM 3500, DRW, Duramax.

Wate a minute. I just posted this comment about an RV under the Tow Vehicles thread. I appologize and won't do it again....but it was a reply.

Vance

Jo And Craig · RV-Dreams Family Member

I do realize we have gotten a little off message. Sorry Howard! But, let me say this. We also fell in love with the 320RS at the Houston RV show earlier this year. Based on previous comments, I guess I'll have to wear my overalls the next time we take a look-see and get under the unit myself. (No doubt my DH will be there with me!) But I love the set-up of the 320RS for the same reasons... theater seating ACROSS FROM the TV, the island, plenty of storage everywhere, the large counter space next to the stove and on both sides of the kitchen sink, AND my husband is also 6'-3". The shower fits him well and does not "give" when he's in it. That is one of the things HE looks for. So, it seems we have a lot in common. But, we still have time to decide and, who knows, we could change our mind between now and then. It seems like a quality coach, but I get the feeling others lean the other way for understandable reasons. I'm also thinking that if Berkshire invested in this company, surely it has quality products? I'm all open for advice, and will not turn any of it down!

-- Edited by Mary Sunshine on Tuesday 24th of July 2012 07:33:08 AM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Mary Sunshine wrote:
Oh, my goodness, Bill. Maybe I misspoke! I just looked up the New Horizons and, um, can't justify starting out at that much. Also, throughout my research I have read that 2-axles are better than 3. I do not recall the exact reason(s), but it has something to do with turning, I suppose? While the NH looked really nice, I'm just wondering if you might have something a little more moderate in mind?

Mary:

Well, I told you New Horizons was not for the faint of wallet. {Grin} Anyway, two axles are not better or worse than three. The number of axle is determined by the weight capacity of the trailer. You don’t want three if two is adequate and you don’t want two if you need three. Turning is another discussion, but the short version is that most three axle trailers are longer therefore they take more room to turn naturally and there is a more of a tire scrubbing the road issue in tight turns with three than two. But if the trailer needs three axles the scrubbing issue is really a moot point. Ya gotta have axles and tires to carry the load as required.

There is a lot of game out there – just select wisely and look under the rig as well as in the rig. A number of rigs that might meet your needs were listed but it just depends on your budget and desires. My choices might be somewhat different for different reasons. It just depends on your criteria - it depends. For a number of engineerning reasons and based on your posts as well as other factors I would look at NuWa as well but I'm guessing about your criteria.

Do enjoy the hunt

Bill

cherylbrv · RV-Dreams Family Member

I thought I had my research almost completed, but after reading this thread and many other sources on MDTs and HDTs, I suspect I may need to reconsider going to a high end MDT or lower end HDT. The goal is a customized 43' DRV Mobile Suites (for full timing). I don't know yet what the weight will be, but it WILL be one of the heavier models.

Until now, I had been considering the Ford F450, but I am now prepared to do a bit more research into the HDT trucks (admittedly, being very intimidated by them). With that in mind, WHERE DO I START??? I am not at all familiar with any of the manufacturers or models (actually, I've heard of Volvo and Freightliner). For example, for the size I had in mind, I was able to narrow it down to Ford F450/550, or Dodge 3500. What are the next models up I should be considering? And where is the most likely place I would find those models used? Would it be possible to find something in those models, in good condition, in the $30K range?

Can anyone provide a list of makes/models I should be investigating? I'm hoping I won't need a semi or a truck that can also pass for a MH -- just something I can install a good hitch on that is heavy duty enough without worry. For now, we are planning to have a scout vehicle, so the truck wouldn't be what we use for sight seeing or local drives.

More information if it's helpful -- we probably would travel every 2-3 weeks and don't plan to go farther than 200 miles at a time (of course, there may occasionally need to be exceptions to the rule, if we HAVE to be at a certain place at a given time, but I would hope we'd have enough advance notice to take our time getting there). We do plan on seeing as much of the country as we can (over the course of the rest of our lives), which means beaches, mountains, deserts -- pretty much any types of conditions where we're able to drive.

Thanks for your help!

-- Edited by cherylbrv on Monday 28th of January 2013 04:03:46 PM

cherylbrv · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks! I am reading Jack's write up now. Thank you Jack!!!

UPDATE: Jack - the links pointing to a description of the MDTs don't work.

-- Edited by cherylbrv on Monday 28th of January 2013 05:05:43 PM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

A definitive source is right in this thread. Jack Mayer. He also has an extremely good condition, I’ve been in it, Volvo HDT perfect for your purpose and it is for sale. It current pulls a NH 42' 5er. Or Jack can provide information should the truck not be exactly what you want - but it probably is.

He can direct you to other sources and is extremely knowledgeable on this issue.

http://www.jackdanmayer.com/

jackdanmayer@gmail.com

Bill

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Cheryl,

I wouldn't completely rule out the Ford F450 as yet. According to what Jack has said in the past, the F450 can be used to tow some of the New Horizon fifth wheels and they may even be as heavy as the 43' DRV's. If you go to DRV's website and click on the link for the 43-footers, when you click on a floor plan, there are specifications for the trailers, which includes showing that all of the 43's have a GVWR of 23,000 lbs. I would venture that the 43's could be pulled by the F450, but I'm not sure of how much leeway you would have weight-wise between the trucks GCVW and the weight of the trailer.

Sadly, I'm not sure what the GVWR is for the New Horizon models. If you can contact Jack Mayer, he can give you a lot more information

Terry

cherylbrv · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks Terry. Just trying to get all my ducks in a row so that when I sell the house, I'll be ready to make my purchases rather than spending time then trying to figure out what I need.

Budget allowing, I hope to get a modified Suites using the Atlanta rear with the Phoenix desk setup (substituting the bunk with another desk) and the Lexington living room/kitchen layout. I'd probably go for the LG countertops rather than corian to save some money and weight.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

The GVWR of a New Horizons is going to vary based on what you put into it, and it's length. Because each coach is custom built to its owners requirements it is hard to be specific on a particular model I can tell you that the factory uses some guidelines that work out to be "pretty" accurate so you can always ask them on a particular build.

But for guidance, my 42.5' unit is 23.9K lbs. This includes 50 gallons of fresh water, 0 black/grey, 2x40 lb propane's full, generator, 1020 Ah of agm battery, 800 watts solar. Plus ALL of our personal gear. So it is a heavy trailer loaded, that slightly exceeds the tow rating of an F450. But just. I still have 2,000 lbs trailer carrying capacity that I would never use.

I could easily spec out a 43' NH that would be around 23K, total, depending on what one wanted in it.

Lynn and Ed · RV-Dreams Family Member

Full-time RVing Family-wannabees wrote:
Wow! This has certainly been an educational thread to read considering how many topics it has covered that i am faced with deciding on in the short term.

... Anyways, I also was looking at the F-450/550 ...
Cheers, Jef

Jef,

If it is helpful, since this thread was started, Dodge RAM has released an updated version of the 3500 HD with increased towing capabilities. We will likely purchase the 2014 RAM 3500 in several months, when we order our RV. I found everyone's suggestions and comments in this thread invaluable, which helped us decide on the RAM 3500 (versus the Ford 450 or 550). Further information can be found on the following forum thread http://rv-dreams.activeboard.com/t53424737/2013-ram-hd-the-king-of-towing-at-30000-pounds/ about the RAM 3500.

-- Edited by Lyn on Sunday 25th of August 2013 06:49:19 PM

Full-time RVing Family-wannabees · RV-Dreams Community Member

Wow! This has certainly been an educational thread to read considering how many topics it has covered that i am faced with deciding on in the short term.

I should have first said thank-you all for allowing me to join and to learn from your vast experience and knowledge - so thank-you!

The other thing I should have done was picked a shorter and easier to remember user name - lol

Anyways, I also was looking at the F-450/550 as a less expensive and more fuel efficient alternative to the larger semi-like rides that many are suggesting here, or even the F-650 that looks awesome but seemed to be overkill. I am thinking the route for us in an RV right now will be a 40'ish foot toy-hauler with a 16' garage to bring along (once acquired again) a convertible to use as the get around vehicle while stationed. From my research we will be in the low 20k pound trailer weight. I was really liking the idea of the larger trucks with the better seat hight and the large viewing area while driving, until I saw that they were only rear-wheel drives, and being from the frozen parts of the earth in Canada and do plan on spending time back here, from time to time, even once on the road 'full-time' I have a hard time letting go of the 4x4 approach of everything - heck I'm even trying to find an awd convertible this time around.

So I guess my question is stemming from not having much experience behind the wheel of larger vehicles on a day to day level, even tho I do have a Class 1 DL, are these MDT's only available in WRD and if so how do they perform in less than ideal road conditions of ice and snow? I do not see myself stepping up to a full HDT as I have 2 small kids that like to be looking out the windows and such. Thanks for any further guidance you may offer on this topic.

Cheers, Jef

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Full-time RVing Family-wannabees wrote:

So I guess my question is stemming from not having much experience behind the wheel of larger vehicles on a day to day level, even tho I do have a Class 1 DL, are these MDT's only available in WRD and if so how do they perform in less than ideal road conditions of ice and snow? I do not see myself stepping up to a full HDT as I have 2 small kids that like to be looking out the windows and such. Thanks for any further guidance you may offer on this topic.

Cheers, Jef

Jef:

The 2 wheel vs. 4 wheel drive thing is an age old “discussion.” I’m a 4 wheel drive guy and in your neck of the woods, Canada, in which I have traveled extensively including the NWT, I would have 4 wheel drive – period. Actually I would have it in the US – also period. Some say they don’t need it, but read on . . .

I can give you details in a PM if you like, but the short version is when traveling with others driving 2 wheel drive MDT’s, they were getting stuck and had to be pulled out by the 4 wheel drive guys. One 2 wheeler required a CAT D-9 dozer to get him out. So with a bunch of miles “up there” I strongly recommend 4 wheel drive. It’s like a spare tire – you don’t need it till you do and then you need it a lot. The cost and weight additions are not significant, IMO, in making any difference in the big picture of the RV project.

So that’s just one’s view with experience.

Welcome to the forum.

Bill

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jef,

First of all, welcome to the RV Dreams forums. While we are mostly made up of U.S. citizens, I can say that we all value the knowledge of our Canadian members, if for nothing more than knowledge of where to go and where to avoid in Canada. Driving through Colorado a few years ago, we turned off on a well marked and defined highway to head toward Aspen (I think that is the right town) and about 200 yards up that road was a sign that said "No Vehicles Over 28 Feet in Length." Had we been in an RV, that would have necessitated that we back up the rig for over 200 yards. Some folks wouldn't appreciate that dilemma.

Anyway, feel free to ask all the questions that come to mind as we all learn from each other, and each questioner's questions may bring a different perspective to even an old topic. We also look forward to your comments and advice about Canada.

As for your username, if you have another in mind, contact Howard and Linda. As administrators, they have the "authority" to be able to change your username for the forums. Even as a moderator, I don't have the authority or the "tools" within the software to affect the change for you. You can contact Howard by using the "Messaging" feature of the forums. Simply find a place where he has made a comment and click on his username. You will be taken to another "page" which is his "profile." At the bottom of the profile area is a link that says "Send Message." Click on that and you'll have a format similar to the forum posts to make your request. Don't forget to put a title in the message title area.

As for the truck, you may have a dilemma. With your reference to low 20K trailer, would that also include the convertible within the trailer? If it is, a Ford F450 may be your best bet for the weight capacity that it has. Any of the MDT's and HDT's are only going to be 2WD because the only 4WD tractors that I know of are used in the oil patch and those definitely aren't built for comfort for a family. A fifth wheel manufacturer called New Horizons builds trailers that are in excess of 20,000 lbs and they do say that "some" of their models can be pulled with a Ford F450. In fact, we have a member that has a New Horizons and F450. Hopefully, they will see this and can give you an idea of their rig and its capabilities.

At any rate, watch the weights of rigs and the weight capacities of the trucks and do not go by a manufacturer's "Tow Rating." Those aren't of much value.

Welcome to the family.

Terry

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Terry and Jo wrote:
As for the truck, you may have a dilemma. With your reference to low 20K trailer, would that also include the convertible within the trailer? If it is, a Ford F450 may be your best bet for the weight capacity that it has. Any of the MDT's and HDT's are only going to be 2WD because the only 4WD tractors that I know of are used in the oil patch and those definitely aren't built for comfort for a family. A fifth wheel manufacturer called New Horizons builds trailers that are in excess of 20,000 lbs and they do say that "some" of their models can be pulled with a Ford F450. In fact, we have a member that has a New Horizons and F450. Hopefully, they will see this and can give you an idea of their rig and its capabilities.

Terry

Terry:

Let’s clarify our terms. You, if I recall correctly, you have always referred to your F-450 as a MDT truck – albeit a “light” MDT. You did in response to one of my posts. 33K GCVWR with a 4.88 rear-end if I recall correctly. So is the F-550 a MDT because both it and the F-450 meet the 14,000 GVW capacities to be classified as an "MDT." So by definition you can purchase an MDT with the “MDT” capability, by specifications, with 4 wheel drive. Which, if I needed one, I would do – purchase one of those trucks that is. Indeed, New Horizons and Forks, for two, need MDT or "better" trucks and depending on model you can get and MDT with 4 wheel drive off the showroom floor, put in a hitch and tow. (Actually, I think Ford is now selling a 25K hitch as a "Ford" option from the dealer.)

"Just saying"

Bill