winterizing - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Melstar · RV-Dreams Family Member

winterizing

Colorado_Kid · RV-Dreams Family Member

Winterizing is draining your water tanks, water heater and water lines then blowing them out with an air compressor and then running RV anti freeze through the lines. This prevents your water lines from freezing and messing up your plumbing. If you do not have a bypass valve on your water heater you should have one put on so RV antifreeze does not get in the water heater.

-- Edited by Colorado_Kid on Friday 19th of November 2010 12:48:05 AM

53 Merc · RV-Dreams Family Member

No, No , No! Winterizing is hooking up and driving south until the temperature is above freezing and expected to stay that way. When the temperature starts dropping, hook up again and repeat as required. At least that is my preference.

However, if that is not feasible, what the kid said is correct, except for the part about the RV Antifreeze. Man, that stuff is NASTY, and almost impossible to get all the taste out of the plumbing. Unless the lines were not adequately cleared of water and left open, and the temperatures don't go negative, the antifreeze is not really required. Better preparation is key here, blow 'em out, then drain at low points, then blow 'em out again. When done, blow 'em out again.

Not sure of your location, but you did say in the south, so you may be OK. If the temp goes below about 20 and the lines are full of water, you MAY have some damage, but PEX is very forgiving in that regard. Good luck.

Melstar · RV-Dreams Family Member

Ok, we rarely go below 20 degrees here in Lafayette, LA......southwest part of the state.
Cold for us is an occassional dip below 32 degrees, however, it almost never gets there and stays! Maybe just draining the lines will be sufficient.

With that said...we did stay at freezing for a few days last winter...

thanks....Mel

-- Edited by Melstar on Friday 19th of November 2010 08:47:02 AM

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Everyone has an opinion so here is mine as concerns winterizing a rig.

I make it in response to the concerns and the need to use RV antifreeze and the necessity to use it when temperatures will go below 32 degrees and stay there for sometime – such as overnight.

If, and that is the delimiter, “if” you expect your lines not to freeze when the temperature goes much below 32 degrees and stays there for long, just blowing out the lines will not reliably do the job. There may be some water left in the “sags” of the lines and they will freeze.

If you realized just how much water is left in the lines, (and holding tanks after you drain them) after you “blow them out,” you would deal with the RV antifreeze. IMO, it isn’t all that much trouble and a lot less trouble than having to find and replace a line, fitting or fixture after it bursts and has that “small leak” you just can’t seem to find. (Honey, where is that wet spot coming from?)

With the exception of some smaller tag trailers that can be drained due to the lines running flat on the floor without any sags in the lines, like the Airstreams for example, you just can't get all the water out with high pressure air. I’ve proven this many times. BTW, don’t forget about those water lines going to the washer location you don’t use found in many 5’ers and MH’s. That’s a prime location for water to “hide” and then drain back into the main line or manifold after the lines are “blown out.” There are other hiding places as well.

Everyone is free to take their chances with the blow out method. But in most larger units, especially 5’ers and MH’s, it just doesn’t reliably work and if it fails the consequences aren’t very pleasant.

(Now, if you live further south and only very occasionally have temperatures going below 32 degrees, I would just run the furnace in the rig overnight when that temperature drop happens. I’ve done that and it will protect the pipes just fine. I set mine on about 45 degrees.)

My 2 cents based on experience. Take it for what it is worth.

Safe travels

Bill

Gary · RV-Dreams Family Member

A friend of mine who owns a boat winterizes it by blowing out the lines then dumping in very cheap vodka. He says it's cheaper than the antifreeze, doesn't leave behind that nasty aftertaste of antifreeze and it does the trick.

Ckerr · RV-Dreams Family Member

Gary wrote:

A friend of mine who owns a boat winterizes it by blowing out the lines then dumping in very cheap vodka. He says it's cheaper than the antifreeze, doesn't leave behind that nasty aftertaste of antifreeze and it does the trick.

I like Gary's friend already... biggrin

53 Merc · RV-Dreams Family Member

To respond to Bill, the critical point I make is that blowing the lines is adequate, IF, (notice the big IF) all taps are left open. PEX tubing (cross linked polyvinyl) was developed because it has memory, and will return to memory after distress, unlike copper tubing. Therefore my reliance on blowing the lines and leaving taps open (don't forget an outside shower). When we fill an ice tray, it freezes, but the ice has expansion room, so no damage to the ice tray. You can safely freeze ice in a plastic bottle given an adequate amount of expansion room.

If the temperature goes to 20 or so and remains there for more than 3 or 4 hours, there may be some ice. I base this time frame on more than 35 years operating gas plants and refineries down south. We seldom had problems with uninsulated water lines unless we dipped rather low for a few hours. Water only begins freezing at 32 degrees F, and only becomes solid after a length of time at 32. If I lived in Lafayette, LA, I would probably not even blow the lines, probably just open the taps and leave them alone. If the temperature was expected to be 20 or so for more than 3 or 4 hours, I might open low point drains, or just put an electric heater in the rig set on low. Remember, you ain't looking to warm the thing, only keep it above 25 or 30 degrees. The winter in Lafayette is very benign and seldom gets all crazy. I spent a lot of time in the Beaumont, TX area, and we seldom worried about freezing weather. Hurricanes, yes, sonow and freezing, not so much.

Melstar · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thank you Bill...I do like the "running" the furnace all night when it freezes at night. that is usually when we get our coldest temps.

I will take all of these instructions to heart this winter.....if we have a winter! blankstare

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

53 Merc wrote:

To respond to Bill, the critical point I make is that blowing the lines is adequate, IF, (notice the big IF) all taps are left open. PEX tubing (cross linked polyvinyl) was developed because it has memory, and will return to memory after distress, unlike copper tubing. Therefore my reliance on blowing the lines and leaving taps open (don't forget an outside shower).

Hi Ken:

Good discussion.

Actually, I agree with this in theory; except there are things like water pumps and plastic fittings to name two, that aren’t like the PEX tubing which has way more “give” than the copper tubing once used in the rigs. Water can be left in those types of places.

That said, I just don’t like to take chances. So, to each his own depending on his own experiences and comfort level.

You do, however, present the very best idea for winterization: travel south and live in the rig. Never had a rig freeze up while I was living in it. :)

Safe travels

Bill

azrving · RV-Dreams Family Member

We blow the lines out and drain the water heater. Make sure you lock the toilet valve (have someone hold it open) open when you blow the lines out so there is no water trapped in the valve or line. I keep my camper plugged into the house when not in use so I am able to leave a small ceramic heater (with a freeze prevention mode/switch) on all winter. It will only come on when the temp in the camper drops below 35 degrees, saves my propane and it has worked great for the past 9 years.

I couldn't find a link to my old heater but here's one with the anti-freeze feature. I'm sure there are plenty to choose from.

Cheap DeLonghi DCH1030 Ceramic Heater with Adjustable Thermostat<<<The DeLonghi Ceramic Heater features 2 heat flow settings. Choose the HIGH (1500 Watts) or LOW (825 Watts) setting. Adjustable thermostat lets you easily select and maintain a desired level of comfort. The Anti-freeze settings allow you to never get bitter cold again. The anti-freeze setting automatically turns the heater on when the room temperature drops below 44 degrees Fahrenheit. A power indicator light for safe operation the power light indicates when the heater is on. This heater includes a safety thermal cut Â¿off, just one more way to ensure product safety. If the unit becomes too warm, it automatically turns off. No need to worry about overheating

http://www.heateroutlet.co.cc/sales-DeLonghi_DCH1030_Ceramic_Adjustable_Thermostat-B000G1CXYY

Dan and Gail · RV-Dreams Family Member

In 10 years of owning a travel trailer and 5 years with a motorhome, we've only tasted antifreeze one time when we didn't THOROUGHLY flush the water lines. We also remove the water filters from the filter system and drain the water heater before adding antifreeze. We probably use between 5 and 10 gallons of water to flush all the lines, and keep flushing until the water runs perfectly clear (not pink) and we can't smell antifreeze.   Replace the water filters AFTER flushing. We have both a sediment and carbon filter.

Our motorhome is our home, and I don't even want to think about spending time at an RV repair facility looking for a leak. We had that problem in our house a few years ago, and it was a nightmare finding the actual source, and dealing with mold.

Antifreeze is cheap compared to the damage water can do. Not to mention the mold problems.   I agree with the real way to winterize (GO SOUTH). Of course, last winter Wauchula, FL wasn't far enough south as we had freezing temperature in January.

We are in central Illinois now, leaving for Florida after Thanksgiving. The nighttime temperatures have been in the low 30's with predictions of 24 and 25 for Thanksgiving. We keep water in the tank, but only conne.ct the hose to fill the water tank. And Dan plugged a 75 watt flood light into the electrical outlet in the service bay. The light has a switch on it, so we turn it on before going to bed and off in the morning.   We checked the temperature in the bay with our outside remote thermometer and it stays at 50 degrees during the night.

Can't wait to get to to Kenansville, FL, temp 80, but will sure miss our daughter and three grandchildren here.

Colorado_Kid · RV-Dreams Family Member

I will add two other things people do to prepare their RV for winter. Putting you batteries in storage and making sure your fuel tank if full.

TXRVr · RV-Dreams Family Member

RV Dealers located where there is really a winter season don't winterize new rigs because there hasn't been any water in them. Just an assumption, but if all the water has been drained, blown out, and allowed to evaporate with open valves a similar situation exists and anti-freeze isn't needed; aside from using it for peace of mind. Running a heater, using a light bulb, or turning on the RV heater are also all good suggestions for that extra peace of mind.

My latitude is just a bit farther north than Lafayette and with the except of the shower p trap which I can't easily get to, I have never added chemicals to the rig to 'winterize.'

The vodka idea is interesting, but then it too would evaporate...if not drinken first. blankstare

Old Snipe · RV-Dreams Family Member

I just winterized my MH yesterday, it took about an hour because I have a washer/dryer and an ice maker needing a couple of extra steps, so that adds time to the project.

I always use RV antifreeze and flush the lines good in the spring. I don't use the compressed air method because it is recommended to use an oil free air compressor, which I don't have. That kind of compressor can leave a light coating of oil in your water lines.

I remove all my water filters before I add the RV antifreeze. The cannister filter I just toss, they are cheap. I have a spin on secondary filter under the kitchen sink and I remove it, drain it, put it in a plastic bag and place in my household freezer. That way I get a second season out of the $61.00 filter.

Best Regards!

TXRVr · RV-Dreams Family Member

Old Snipe wrote:
I have a spin on secondary filter under the kitchen sink and I remove it, drain it, put it in a plastic bag and place in my household freezer. That way I get a second season out of the $61.00 filter.

Best Regards!

I've not heard of that idea. Please educate me as to why that helps extend the life of the filter. Thanks.

Melstar · RV-Dreams Family Member

Well, we are off to get a a little heater at WalMart....temps are going down to freezing tonight! We haven't even taken the "Pointe" out for the maiden voyage! Yesterday it was 80 degrees....gotta love Louisiana!

Elaine NB · RV-Dreams Family Member

We live on the east coat of Canada, and get lots of freezing and below zero temps throughout the winter (hopefully this is our last winter of this crap)...anyway we do winterize our MH....Rick drain all our lines..ensures all tanks are empty..and pumps the lines full of antifreeze (RV pink type)...and we have never had any freezing problems..while Miss Daisy sits buried in the cold and snow during the winter months...we have never blown out the 'lines' the antifreeze will push any water out that may be lurking behind....we drain the water heater and do not put any antifreeze in it.... and we do not put anything in our holding tanks...

Speedhitch · RV-Dreams Family Member

I think the best way to winterize your rig is to get in it and drive down to south Florida and drop your jacks...Much more fun than draining water...

Elaine NB · RV-Dreams Family Member

Speedhitch wrote:

I think the best way to winterize your rig is to get in it and drive down to south Florida and drop your jacks...Much more fun than draining water...

I agree Joe...for sure...thats my idea of winterizing!!!!

FD5 · RV-Dreams Family Member

When we were bound by our S & B (Jackson, MS area) we just put a qube ceramic heater in the basement set on low when temps were expected to go below 32.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Old Snipe wrote:

I just winterized my MH yesterday, it took about an hour because I have a washer/dryer and an ice maker needing a couple of extra steps, so that adds time to the project.

Paul,

Well, I may already be in trouble. While I have winterized our unit using the compressed air method and opening low-point valves, I didn't do anything with the ice maker. However, what kind of procedure do you use in draining or clearing the ice maker tubing? Also, just for grins, what all do you do in winterizing the washing machine?

Thanks.

Terry

Melstar · RV-Dreams Family Member

Well, we drained the tanks, put the little ceramic heater inside on high, put a light buring in the basement all night.....and...all was fine this morning....inside was warm, not too hot, and the underneath was warm (large light)! I guess our "winterizing" worked!

Trabuco · RV-Dreams Family Member

This has been a fun blog to read, being from Southern California a low of 45 degrees is cold for us! I had no clue this was a must for RVer's. I learn something new each time I get on this forum! Keep the info coming I'm soaking it all up.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Terry and Jo wrote:

Old Snipe wrote:

I just winterized my MH yesterday, it took about an hour because I have a washer/dryer and an ice maker needing a couple of extra steps, so that adds time to the project.

Paul,

Well, I may already be in trouble. While I have winterized our unit using the compressed air method and opening low-point valves, I didn't do anything with the ice maker. However, what kind of procedure do you use in draining or clearing the ice maker tubing? Also, just for grins, what all do you do in winterizing the washing machine?

Thanks.

Terry

Some will not care for my answer but you put some RV antifreeze in both IMO. By that I mean, just like filling the lines till you get “pink” from the faucets, run the ice maker to “fill” the supply tube and then cut the pump off; same with the washer to flush all the water out. Don’t forget to fill the drain traps with antifreeze as well.

Assuming you live where it gets below freezing and stays there for sometime, a few hours, where there is water, it will freeze.

I really think we have to evaluate where we live and just how cold it gets and how long it stays below freezing to decide on a full antifreeze job or running the gas furnace overnight to keep the rig above freezing. I’ve done both for the “freezing cold” winter months. One method is worry free, but more trouble and the other is a little more expensive (LP Gas) but also works.

Last night, here in North Carolina, my outside the S&B temperature gauge said it only got down to 37 due to the warmth of the house where the outside gauge is located. However, it rained yesterday and in the cover on my truck, where water had accumulated, there was still hard ice at 10:00AM. The official low temperature was 34 at the airport 5 line-of-sight air miles away. So, go figure.

It sort of “is what it is” and we all have to decide what is best for our situation. But if there is water and it gets below 32 degrees for long, it will freeze. Whether there is room enough for the water to expand without doing damage is sort of a crap shoot IMO; maybe yes, maybe no.

BTW, the “big light bulb in the basement trick” does work real well. However, remember the outside “shower” faucet is usually exposed. So try to get the water out of that little item even with the light bulb trick if it is going down much below 32 degrees.

Safe travels and a short winter for all

Bill

Racerguy · RV-Dreams Family Member

When I winterized my old trailer in Colorado I just ran all the fausets until I got anti-freeze and never had any trouble.Seems to me the anti freeze pushes the water out as it fills the lines.Arn't you going to an extra step of blowing lines for nothing ? Please educate me. smile

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Racerguy wrote:

When I winterized my old trailer in Colorado I just ran all the fausets until I got anti-freeze and never had any trouble.Seems to me the anti freeze pushes the water out as it fills the lines.Arn't you going to an extra step of blowing lines for nothing ? Please educate me.

George,

I guess it is a trade off. I blow the lines with about 25-30psi of air and after doing that, I open the low-point drains. The only place I will put anti-freeze is in the drains for the traps and what little might be in the holding tank.

In my case, if I were to just put in anti-freeze, I would then have to flush everything, including the fresh water tank after winter was over. We have also not used our fresh water tank yet, so there is no water in there. If I were to run the pump to fill the lines with anti-freeze, then I would have to flush all lines AND the fresh water tank.

I guess with many, it kind of a "preference" thing.

Terry

RickandJanice · RV-Dreams Family Member

I have used antifreeze for the past 20 years, but in Ohio, we get 2-3 months it never gets above freezing and we do not heat our rig or barn where it is stored. Not only protects any area water could gather but keeps the plastic fittings and plumbing from drying out and cracking later.

I tried just blowing out the lines on our current rig one time a couple of years ago. Blew out the lines, drained all the water from the drain points, and put antifreeze in the traps. Ended up with the plastic valve inside the kitchen water faucet cracking and had to replace it. A tiny amount of water had remained in the valve stem. Will never try it again, even though other have not had problems, I know too many who have besides me.

Terry, just a quick note, Mobile Suites have a siphon and tank bypass valve so the fresh water tank does not need to have antifreeze in it. Pumps straight from the bottle down the lines. Saves allot of antifreeze, only take about 3 gallons for the entire rig. Also makes the job easier and quicker in both the fall and spring.

Elaine NB · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hi Terry,

We also have an ice maker...we disconnected the hose at the shut off valve-behind the fridge, and ran the antifreeze thru up to the shutoff valve...leave the flexible hose disconnected going to the ice maker and the water will all drain out of it....

take care

Melstar · RV-Dreams Family Member

Ok, this may sound silly....but what do you "blow" the lines with? My husband is very mechanical....but he had no clue about that. Since our temps don''t say freezing very long at this time of the year....I guess we'll be alright with what we are doing.

NorCal Dan · RV-Dreams Family Member

Melanie, there is an adapter that allows you to hook up an air line to your water system. There's a picture of one on the the page this link points to...

http://rvbasics.com/techtips/rv-fresh-water-winterizing.html

Melstar · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thank you Dan. I'm going to study and show it to Wayne. Seems like a great website for a novice like me!

Racerguy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks Terry, I see your point now.Just a point for others to remember is that you only used 30 to 35 psi of air.To much air pressure may damage the lines.As always with this site we can still learn from each other.

azrving · RV-Dreams Family Member

TXRVr wrote:

Old Snipe wrote:
I have a spin on secondary filter under the kitchen sink and I remove it, drain it, put it in a plastic bag and place in my household freezer. That way I get a second season out of the $61.00 filter.

Best Regards!

I've not heard of that idea. Please educate me as to why that helps extend the life of the filter. Thanks.
If you full time it shouldn't be an issue but those of us that use water filtration and only camp several times a year need to take extra precautions. We use a whole house filtration system that is capable of filtering 10-15,000 gallons of water before needing the cartridge replaced. When we return from a camping trip I drain the filter and store it in a Ziploc bag in our freezer. You can even run a little water/chlorine mixture over the filter before putting it in the freezer.
Most of the rv filters (in-line/hose) are too expensive and only filter 500-1,000 gallons of water, so this system works well for us. I don't like contributing to the landfills for the sake of convenience. JMO

I wouldn't recommend freezing the ceramic filters (they may crack) but you can let them dry out really good and then put them in the fridge to help prevent mold/mildew.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=91511&p=3&topicID=39338467

Country Dancer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Another question from a neophyte: If you are full-timing, and living in your rig all winter, and may be in places where it freezes, you don't winterize, right? But what do folks do who live in their rigs all winter? We'd like to camp in those borderline wintery places like New Mexico and Utah, where it does freeze overnight, and snow, but doesn't stay very cold for long.

Does anyone have experience with the "Canadian package" in a DRV?

Luvglass · RV-Dreams Family Member

We live in our rig all year and have been in below freezing temps quite often. Good quality full time rigs are designed to with stand cold weather in a number of ways that keep the living environment comfortable and the structure safe. Among them are;

Good insulation to retain heat, sometimes with an extra layer called arctic insulation.

Dual pane windows for heat retention and to prevent condensation which is both annoying and potentially destructive.

A heated underbelly, or tank heaters, to prevent freezing of water lines and holding tanks.

Sufficiently large furnace to easily heat the rig, and large enough propane tanks for fuel.

When it's predicted to get well below freezing, we also disconnect the outside water and sewer connections to prevent breakage of the hoses from expansion when they freeze.

Most full timers also employ additional heat sources like space heaters and electric fireplaces.

With a good rig it's no problem being in cold weather for extended periods, but propane costs can get somewhat expensive. We've been below zero many times and once down to -14. The key really, is a rig designed and built to withstand these conditions. Also keep in mind that most full timers gravitate to areas with good weather and follow the seasons. It is a "house on wheels" after all.

NorCal Dan · RV-Dreams Family Member

Just to piggyback on what Fred wrote...if everything on the rig is enclosed in a heated area (basement or similar) then the only exposed items that need attention is the water hose, water source, and sewer hose. You can purchase a heated water hose specifically for sub-zero operation. While this example is not the one I was looking for, they do make heated hoses that are rated for human drinking water standards. The sewer hose can be drained after use and/or put into a heated bay until needed again. On our rig we can use the standard 3" stinky slinky hose, or we can switch to using the macerator. The nice thing about the macerator is it is a 1" flex hose that is much easier to pull out and put away after use. The water source I refer to is the place you hook your water hose to that the park supplies. For us it's been about 50/50 if the park has addressed the issue. Some use self-draining spigots, but you must remove your hose for them to drain. Other parks told us we needed to make sure the spigot didn't freeze. If I suspect freezing temps I ask the park how they handle it.

Country Dancer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks for reassuring me that it's really possible to full time all winter, with water, even if it drops below freezing. There sure is a lot to think about and learn.

In our one RV camping experience, Christmas time 2009, we got caught in a blizzard in a state park in Oklahoma, terrible winds, ice, complete power outage all around. Luckily we didn't have water in the RV yet. But the whole area was without power, except for us in our little Cruise America RV with the generator keeping us alive for 36 hours.

We were even frozen out of the bathrooms by the ice coating everything. That was a formative experience for us. We'll never forget it.

Stay warm everyone!