Great site, RVDude,

Those weights add up quickly. I would think that RVers with Motorhomes could benefit from this site also.

What I have found is that you can't trust the Mfg., Dealers, or anyone else when buying an RV. You need to get the unit weighed before you buy it. If you do not have a way to get the unit to the scales, have the seller take it there for you, and go along, so you can witness the weighing yourself. If the Dealer won't take it, shop somewhere else.

Back when we were new to all of this RVing stuff, we purchased a Travel Trailer that was was within 300 lbs. of being overloaded, without any water, LP, or supplies. (As we found out after getting the unit weighed.) This trailer was built by a major Mfg. and bought from a large dealership. Both had a good reputation at the time, so we took their word for everything.

Big mistake!

We only kept the trailer for a short time, as we started having problems with the suspension and tires. (I'm sure it was from overloading.)

There's really nothing you can do to increase the load capacity of an RV, and trading it for something else is usually very expensive.

OK, I'll get off of my soap box now.

Have a great day.

When shopping you OFTEN can not get the exact weights of the 2 units. To insist on the actual scale weight of a trailer is a good thing, but will not happen many/most times.

I always recommend that the GVWR be used for calculation purposes on the trailer. Most fulltime rigs are loaded fully, or near fully. Many are overloaded. There are exceptions with rigs with GREAT carrying capacity, or sometimes with singles that travel lightly, so you have to fit your circumstances to the "guideline".

On the truck weight, it is relatively easy to scale the truck if you own it, but if you do not own it simply post on the Escapees forum and ask for a "fulltiming" weight on that model truck. Use that number unless you know better.

Calculation is pretty simple once you know those 2 numbers. Take the GCWR of the truck, subtract the actual weight of the truck with full fuel and your weights, including dogs and "stuff' - which you got a good estimate of from the internet. That gives you the allowable weight for the loaded trailer. If the GVWR of the trailer is not within that, then you will be overloaded. Pretty simple, really.

NEVER, EVER use the "tow rating" in the manuf. towing guides. They are way off since they assume an unloaded truck with no options.

I just took at look at the website referred to and my heart is sinking!  Do I actually need to do all those computations if I buy a 5ver & tv?  I am fairly good at numbers (was a budget analyst in my former life), but this stuff just makes my eyes glaze over.  I don't want to offend anyone, but I think this is "guy stuff" and I'm a woman alone.  I sometimes email one of my sons to ask for the definition of a term  and he always knows the answer!  He's not even an RVer, so it just must be in the male genes  But he's in CA and I'm in NC, so he can't really help me out when it comes to deciding what to buy.
gypsy

I agree with you RVDude, and I will do that - I just have to do an attitude adjustment!  The terminology is unlike any that I've ever dealt with, but I'm learning slowly but surely.  I've been reading enough posts on a number of forums that stress being able to stop, and I certainly don't ever want to be in a position where I might not be able to stop as fast as I need to.  I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee and have made many trips back and forth across the country, and I'm a cautious and aware driver - I won't be any different driving a truck & towing a 5th wheel behind.   And I know what you're talking about in weighing the contents of a fridge - my long-distance backpacking experience has taught me how to pare weight when I have to. 

I just had to vent a bit - I finally get GVWR and CCC down pat, and here are a bunch of other acronyms & terms that I have to learn.  I guess it's no worse than working for the Army - now that's a foreign language
gypsy

You need to do a separate weight on the truck, with full gas tank and all passengers. Put the front wheels on 1 and the rear on 2.
Then with the trailer connected, put the front wheels of the truck on 1, the rear wheels on 2 and the trailer wheels on 3. That data can be used to determine everything you need to know.

Why would you be slow?

You pull onto the scales - there are three segments. Make sure the front truck axle is on one, the rear axle on the second and the trailer tires will be on the third.

Pick up the phone and tell the person you are "ready to weigh". They will ask for your truck number, or name. Just tell them you are an RV. They may ask if it is a reweigh - tell them no if they ask.

They will then press the button to weigh the rig, and tell you they are done.

Pull off the scale, park out of the way, go inside and pay and get your ticket.  This will tell you your loaded weights. DO NOT park in front of the scale, or near it!!

You get a free reweigh within 24 hrs (usually).  Go find a spot in the truckstop and drop the trailer (or go home and drop it if you live close). Now go back to the scale with just the truck and position on the front 2 segments like you did before. This time when the operator answers tell them you a private truck and that it is a "reweigh".

Go collect your new ticket - which you will not be charged for if you told them it was a reweigh. You can figure your pin weight from the difference in the rear axle weight. You can also figure out how the trailer loads or unloads your front axle.

Until you can get to a Rally to weigh individual wheels this will give you a good idea what you have.

The loaded truck has to be weighed separately so it can be deducted from the second weighing when attached to the fiver, to determine the pin weight and total weight of the trailer. Do you have a separate weight on the truck?

Sorry, I misunderstood. Your weights are correct.

It may be caused by you clicking on a 2 year old link????

I'm starting to look at various 5ers asnd tow vehicles . . .looking at Keystone's site they don't have GVWR in the specs. They only show Shipping weight and Carrying capacity . . .is adding those together reasonable for the GVWR or do builders keep some GVWR in reserve?

 

What I'm trying to do is make the F350/F450 decision. I know Howard has the 450 but at the rally last week it seemed like F350 DRW's were more common than 450's in the park. I know that the F450 has a higher towing capacity . . .which was why Howard got his . . .but the 2011 Ford brochure shows that a F350 DRW 6.7 turbo diesel has a GCWR of 30,000 and a Max trailer loaded weight of 22,000. Reverse engineering those shows a max truck weight of 9000 but I couldn't find an actual F350 DRW on the road weight on Ford's site. I'm guessing that they did the limits with fuel and a skinny driver only and that by the time you put aux tank, hitch, kayak, toolbox and other bed carried stuff the truck will be up in the 9500-1000 range . . .which would reduce the max trailer weight to 21000 based on the GCWR of 30000.

 

Howard's rig weighs in at 18,200 or so based on a post I found on the site.

 

For weight comparison purposes . . .I picked the Keystone Montana 3455SA which is about the size we want . . .that gives me a combined shipping plus carrying capacity weight of 15540. Since that's significantly smaller than Howard's Cambridge . . .I'm assuming that the actual loaded weight of the Montana would be more than the 15540 but don't see how it would get up to 21000.

 

Based on all of that . . .it looks to me like the 350 DRW is plenty . . .maybe they upgraded the towing capacity since Howard got his. We would prefer the 350 as it obviously gets a little better mileage and costs about 10K less once it's ready for towing . . .but don't want to underbuy as we will be towing out west a lot; like Howard and Linda we like to hike/bike/kayak so will be staying primarily in rural/state park settings vice in commercial in-town sites.

 

Am I completely off base with these assumptions or on the right path? Obviously the 450 would be fine . . .but the prevailing opinion I got from the rig walk throughs at the rally was that the 350 was plenty unless you got a Teton or other really heavy rig.

 

Neil,

Try this website to get a downloadable (pdf file) of the Ford products.  Just choose 2011 Superduty in the pull-down menu.  Once you get the pdf file opened up, you can save it on your computer for future use.  I have numerous pdf files for different years on mine.

Look on page 28 of the brochure for the truck GVWR ratings and the towing capacities of fifth wheel trailers.  Page 27 has the towing capacities for conventional trailer towing.

http://www.ford.com/brochures/

If you need earlier years, I may be able to help you if you send me your e-mail address via private message.  There used to be an online source of older brochures, but that link is now unavailable.  You'll just have to give me a couple of days until we go home from our vacation.  The files are on my home desktop computer, not this laptop.

Terry

-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Thursday 21st of April 2011 08:35:43 AM

Terry, thanks for the link. I have that pdf brochure already but it only had towing capacity and GVWR for the truck . . .I was trying to guestimate what the actual loaded weight of the truck was vs just using the GVWR. I had guessed 9800-10000 which appears to have been reasonable.

One other thing I was considering is that the 350 comes off the line with the bed installed where the 450 (according to Howard's now 6 year old post that may no longer be applicable) . . comes off the line with no bed and one has to find/get the bed installed separately. I would hazard a guess that the dealership handles those details for you so the paint matches and such . . .but maybe not. The 450 gets a little worse mileage and is 10K or so more expensive . . .hence I was looking at the 350 DRW instead based on cost and what folks recommended at the rally.

-- Edited by laubenthal on Friday 22nd of April 2011 01:08:37 PM