Frustrated, Confused, Saddened, and almost Angry - RV-Dreams Community Forum

WRS · RV-Dreams Family Member

Frustrated, Confused, Saddened, and almost Angry

Luvglass · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hi,

It's really not complicated at all. All you have to know is the weight of the trailer you'll be pulling, and then choose the truck you like that's rated to pull that weight. For safety sake it's a good idea to have a tow rating at least 10% higher.

Try to stay away from salesmens claims, ask for the towing book from the manufacturer, or get the Trailer Life Towing Guide.

Good luck,

Fred

ken and cindy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Check out the new 2008 Ford superduty F450. Half the price of a MDT and towing capacity of 26k lbs.

blijil · RV-Dreams Family Member

All of us who tow figured out that advice and opinions are plentiful. Most think their choice is the best for everyone but that is because they are satisfied with the choice they made. Fred is right on. Get a tow guide from trailer life if you are planning to buy new and match things up. Tow rating is first, then follow through and verify you are within gross combined weight and gross weight rating of the truck including the CCC of your trailer and your truck loaded including passengers. The truck might end up being a little larger than you wished but match the numbers and you are on your way. Brand of truck is pretty much opinion and I will leave it at that. In talking to close to a hundred salesmen including comercial truck sales we didn't find anyone who knew how to do this (or were more motivated by selling their truck). The guide will walk you through it in plain english.

Good luck,
Larry and Jacki

flyone · RV-Dreams Family Member

WRS-- there is no right/wrong answer, It's all a matter of personal prefrence, make sure you have enough truck to do the job at hand, like Fred suggested from there it's what YOU like. That is why there are so many different opinons, it's different for everyone. What YOU are comfortable with and what YOU like; big enough to do the job---that's the answer.

Flyone

Judy · RV-Dreams Family Member

If you are considering on buying a new truck for the rv that you presently have and plan to keep that rv then I would go with a F350 or 450. I am almost hesitant to say that, considering the new 6.4 engine problems in the new ones. I myself went with a 2001 F-550 Star Hauler because of the proven 7.3 engine. Good Luck in your decisions.
southwestjudy & Bob & 2blackdogs

Doncat · RV-Dreams Family Member

I know that frustrated feeling, I had to pass up a great deal on a fifth wheel because My 3/4 ton wasn't rated for the the 14,500lb wieght of the trailer. I was tempted to buy the unit and take my chances with the truck, however I started remembering all the things I have read here about not only being able to tow, but also able to stop! I guess I may have to start shopping for a truck too. hmm

........................ Doncat

mikeway · RV-Dreams Family Member

Have you ever been to a Barnes and Noble or a Borders and wanted to buy a magazine? The choices are overwhelming and you can waste a lot of time just looking.

Have you ever watched NASCAR and listened to the "fans"? They are all sure their driver and his or her car is just right.

As Fred replied, look at the specs of the 5er and the available trucks. Which are suited for each other? In this day and age, does the brand matter? Probably not, even though I get a rash when I walk into a Ford dealer.

Just make sure the specs agree and you like the color, then bite the bullet.

Mike

Remember, the 2nd truck is better and the 3rd is perfect, LOL.

WRS · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thanks for all the replies,
I guess my biggest fear is the horror stories you hear about different trucks. I am going to buy a truck big enough this I know. Money is an object but I am planning on spending what it takes to get one that will tow it safely. As for the 3 in the regular trucks I have no preference. I like them all. Of course I hear the Dodge is not tough enough. The Ford has engine and transmission problems but the rest of the truck is great, and the Chevy is great except for the Duramax engine. On the reverse side you hear just the oppiste about each of these trucks. I did see a F650 with a Cat engine and Allison transmission advertised in the trailer life mag and that would seem to be an ideal pairing but do I want a 650? I was really excited about the new F450 but have heard problems with the 6.4 motor already. Sooooooo I am not as concerned about buying a truck that isn't big enough but more so about the dependabiltiy of what I buy. No I am not normally this paranoid about things but I guess I have talked to too many and have had to much time to review it! smile

Oh well we will see, but thanks again for all your imput.
WRS

wmalefyt · RV-Dreams Family Member

You might want to check out this link to Chevy/GMC diesel truck info: www.dieselplace.com They have a forum there where you can ask questions and read about other owner's experiences.

So far, I'm partial to the Chevy/GMC 3500, Duramax/Allison/DRW. I'm hoping I can select a 5th wheel that meets our needs and stays within the weight limits of this truck. I really don't want to drive a HDT, but an MDT might work.

Good luck!

Bill

-- Edited by wmalefyt at 09:00, 2007-05-10

WRS · RV-Dreams Family Member

Bill,

I really do like the idea of the Allision Transmission so thanks for this site, and I believe Chevy makes a good truck. I will be reading more as time permits. I am assuming you have the Duramax and if so have you had any problems?

WRS

wmalefyt · RV-Dreams Family Member

WRS wrote:

Bill,

I really do like the idea of the Allision Transmission so thanks for this site, and I believe Chevy makes a good truck. I will be reading more as time permits. I am assuming you have the Duramax and if so have you had any problems?

WRS

Actually, I don't have a truck yet! We do have a Monaco Class A motorhome with the Allison Trans. and I think it's the best. That's why we hope we can match a trailer to the 3500/DRW truck.

By the way, it looks like we have a buyer for our motorhome. Now if we can just sell our condo here in Naples, FL we'll be ready to buy that truck and 5th wheel!

Bill

Grant · RV-Dreams Family Member

I only have 7,000 miles on my Chevy, Duramax, Allison, 3500 dually but, I have pulled my 5th wheel 3,000 of thoses miles. I love this truck (my first) power to spare and the Allison tow\haul mode makes going down serious grades a breeze.

Grant

Howard · Host

I've been meaning to respond to this thread for quite some time.

You have already figured out that you have to have enough truck to safely tow and stop your trailer. That's the biggest hurdle.

From there it sounds like you don't want a Heavy Duty Truck (HDT) or a Medium Duty Truck (MDT) that looks like a semi-tractor. So that leaves you with only a few choices in the MDT category of trucks that look like regular pick-ups. That narrows things down considerably.

I wrote a journal entry the other day where I talked about getting TOO MUCH information. As soon as you are ready to make a decision, you find a scathing review of the item you were about to spend your hard-earned money on. I completely understand your title to this thread - I've seen it over and over.

So, with that said, go with your gut. Deep down, you have a gut feel and preference. Listen to that little voice in your head.

Every truck manufacturer can put out a lemon, so you're taking your chances whichever way you go. For every problem you hear about, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of satisfied customers.

Besides a few lemons, there are rants by lots of people that simply didn't do the research you have done already and they bought trucks that were not capable of doing the job. Or they pushed the trucks beyond their limits.

Like I said in my journal entry, make your decision, execute it, and move on with a positive outlook. Second guessing, buyers' remorse, and worrying that you made a mistake just wastes energy. There are no guarantees, so make your best informed choice and the one that makes you happy. As long as you have properly considered the safety aspects, that's all you can do. biggrin

Good luck!!!

endless travels · RV-Dreams Community Member

I'm with Howard - research, research but go with your best feelings. Never overlook stopping power and overheating issues - especially when traveling in the SW & W states. We just started fulltiming with a 40' Teton, weighs in at 21K, pull it with a Freightliner M2, 250HP with Mercedes powertrain. Pulls 8% grades at a reasonable speed, downhill brakes great with the engine braking, and still turns in 10+MPG. Cost is little more than a similiarly equipped Ford 550. The Teton is rated @ 24K, so we have room to spare.

RRman · RV-Dreams Community Member

I finally bit the bullet after dreaming of an HDT (but wife won't fulltime, so why tow a house) and bought a late model 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins which as the annual towing ability increases indicate, can probably tow a 14K lb Fiver okay, which means I will stick with an empty 11-12K lbs Fiver versus the rolling estates...
I jumped on what I think was a deal as 1 ton trucks sell much more rapidly than RVs.
Its not white (my preferred color, but DW likes the silver it is), and a dually which I tried to avoid. But sometimes you need to satisfice versus obsess on perfection and tradeoff some requirements to progress toward the objective. I still wish I had been able to luck into a good deal on a SRW, as I'm currently flummoxxed trying to check/fill air pressure, but inevitably a solution will come.
Good luck!

HighwayRanger · RV-Dreams Family Member

I, too, am frustrated that there is not one perfect tow vehicle! I know I'll get flamed for this, but I've heard too many stories about dually trucks being pushed through intersections when the trailer brakes short out; transmissions burning up; having to add thousand of dollars worth of upgrades just to be able to flog the engine/tranny up to and beyond their designed capability. Finally, there have been many people who have gone through several duallies (losing money each time) over the course. A proper 1-ton dually (new) is about 65K. A new MDT is about 100K, and a new HDT is about 125K. Go through two or three duallies, and you've outspent the guy with one MDT/HDT which lasts forever. A used MDT is about 60K, and a used HDT is about 35K. A used dually would be about 35K also.

One thing we know for sure: if we go the fiver route for fulltiming, it will be heavy. One thing to keep in mind is that many people end up getting bigger and heavier trailers over the years. I don't want to have to buy a bigger truck 3 years from now just because we got a new fiver.

That being said, I'm going to skip all the intermediate steps and bite the bullet, buying either and MDT or an HDT. Both have their downsides, but safety and towing capacity are not among them.

I appreciate the dually owners' decision (there are WAY more duallies running around than any of the others) since everyone has their own needs, but for me, the bigger truck is the only way to go if we choose a fiver over a motorhome. Peace of mind: Priceless!

blijil · RV-Dreams Family Member

Highway Ranger - We have never seen anyone flamed on this forum. It seems the participants are all well aware that our decisions and preferences when it comes to RVing are based on a wide experience base. If you have an opinion that is different experiences, so be it.

When looking for your RV, Tow vehicle, or even next location we have found that those that have had a bad experience are very likely to express their displeasure with the experience including the product. We are no exception, but when the dust settles we realize that bad experiences are often discussed but mostly products are well placed for the RV consumer because their are so many different people in the RV community. Are there occasions when you get a lemon? Yes, see our post on Refrigerater quit. Are there perfectly good systems that get blamed for abuse? We have all seen 3/4 ton PU's towing 16,000#rigs etc. Eventually they don't quite get stopped or regularly visit the transmission or engine repair shop. And then there are a few people who get away with it.

We would all like the perfect product at a very reasonable price but instead find ourselves making choices and taking some degree of risk. And so we get frustrated, confused, saddened and almost angry.

We find it to be an adventure.
Larry and Jacki

Luvglass · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hi Highway Ranger,

I don't know if the conclusions you've reached are really accurate. I would offer for your consideration the following thoughts.

The Ford F350 diesel dually with tow command package is rated to tow fifth wheels up to 18,100 pounds, and I'll guess that over 95% of fifth wheels available have a GVWR less than that.

We paid $46,000 for the highest rated tow capacity 2006 F350, new, in December of that year.

Good luck,
Fred

-- Edited by Luvglass at 09:35, 2007-11-23

HighwayRanger · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hi Fred! the prices I used are clearly guesstimates, but I think they are pretty close. I guess the bottom line for me is that I don't trust the manufacturer's rating of their trucks. The latest F450/F550 dually can be rated for a 33K GCWR, which, to me, is way more than I'm comfortable with. They all seem to be competing for the honor of having the highest tow rating. For most folks, it will be fine, but I'd rather not be the one owner who ends up in a pile at the bottom of the grade! smile

If I had a 13K fiver, a F450 would be just fine. Not so with a 20K fiver!

My neighbor is just one example: He has a lifted, chipped, tweaked 2500 Duramax that he uses to pull a 39' Weekend Warrior full of dirt bikes/quads, plus his wife and three kids in the cab. I hope, each time he goes out, that he doesn't end up in a wreck. He probably won't, but it's risky!

Like I inferred in the previous post, there are thousands of duallies out there working fine everyday, and I wish safe travels to them all!

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

I would caution everyone in using manufacturers tow ratings. They are based on an empty vehicle, a 150 lb driver (or so) and no options. Not the way the vehicle will be used. Most fulltimers carry a LOT of weight in their vehicle, weigh far more than that 150 lbs :), and often have an aux fuel tank as well. So you really can not use the weights given by the manuf. The best thing to do is to ask for ACTUAL weights on the Escapees forum (or here) from fulltimers with the equivalent truck. Then adjust that based on your circumstances.

The manufacturers are certainly in a competition for towing king. They are clearly pushing the vehicles. You may dispute this, but if they keep increasing the rating without substantially changing the vehicle, then my opinion is they are pushing the ratings.

I can tell you from personal experience that my F550 was pretty capable pulling my 16,500 lb 5er. Fully loaded it weighed about 9600 lbs. Ipulled an 18,900 lb trailer once with it, and I could notice a big difference in handling and stopping. Just that difference in the trailer weight pushed the truck around a noticable amount. And the F550 - at least that year - had far bigger brakes than a 450. And yes, the trailer brakes were adjusted properly.

IMO - and it is based on hundreds of thousands of miles of towing, both fulltime and before - rating an F550 which is substantially the same as the one I had, at 33K lbs GCVW is crazy. I would NEVER feel safe at those weights. A 21+K trailer is simply going to be overwelming for that vehicle - IMO.

If you are up at the 18K level you will be best served by a MDT or HDT. Granted, not everyone is comfortable in that class vehicle initially. It looks so BIG and TRUCK-LIKE. You will get over it. They actually handle better than almost all pickups. Properly set up, they are more compfortable. And most importantly, they can STOP heavy weights. Especially an HDT, but that is a different topic.

One reason to go to a MH is not wanting to drive around every day in a "big" truck - you define "big". That is very valid. But then you need to live with the tradeoffs of the MH vs. 5er. There is no simple answer. LIfe is full of tradeoffs....

If you want to compare the virtues of an HDT vs MDT look at my website.

-- Edited by Jack Mayer at 11:30, 2007-11-25

HighwayRanger · RV-Dreams Family Member

Yeah, what Jack said.

Roy

pjw · RV-Dreams Community Member

Check out the NEW Sterling 4500 or 5500. The same tow cap as the F-450 & F-550. It`s a dodge with a sterling emblem. Cummings engine, Aisin 6 speed auto trans, quad cab with a tow body & side tool boxes....$46,000 to $50,000. #7,000 front axle,#13,500 rear axle... Sterling Bullet....nice truck, 14 to 16 mpg. I know the Raptors well & there heavy.

mailman01 · RV-Dreams Family Member

Yep, this purchase can be a very frustrating ordeal for the novice. Like most have said, just go with your gut, and last but not least, the one that has the BEST WARRANTY and reputation of warranty service. The big Three as well as Toyota have a great warranty history as far as I am aware of. A good warranty makes one sleep better at night with the purchase they make. Just a thought.

dream reachers · RV-Dreams Family Member

My wife and I used to have horses and pull them in horsetrailers where we found out about having a truck big enough to stop you when you need it. When we started to think about going fulltime we thought of traveling in a 30' or 32' 5ver, and pulling with a 350. The more we shopped we realized that for our comfort level we would want something bigger and we ended up buying a 35' with a GVWR 17500. Next we shopped for a truck we felt comfortable with to pull and stop that much weight going over the mountains out west. We eventually bought a used, relativly low milage FL60 with a 6 speed Allison Automatic transmission and a Cat 275 hp engine and an exhaust brake for less than we would have paid for a new 350 or 450. We are happy with our setup and are heading out west this summer after the RV DREAMS Rally. I was very proud of my wife yesterday as she drove, pulling our trailer for the first time, back from the Good Sam's Rally in Perry Ga.. She never imagined that she would have driven a truck that size but she did a great job and it wasn't as threatening as she expected it would be.

Crazygramma · RV-Dreams Community Member

We were at that stage at one point in time. We had a Dodge 3500 Dually with the V10 and that could pull anything. However, when we went to the 40 footer my husband was concerned about stopping. The MDT's looked so big and I did not think I could handle that. Ladies, a Freightliner FL60 is a dream to drive. You do not even notice that the 5er is behind you. I have no problem hopping in the truck and going to town by myself. It turns and drives so much easier than the old dually. Plus...all the men check you out when you drive that truck. wink

thebearII · RV-Dreams Family Member

Eventhough this thread is old, it may be of value to someone making a decision about what tow vehicle to go with in the future. So here's my two cents.

We have a 37ft fifth wheel trailer that has a GVWR rating of 13,000 lbs. Up until recently we towed it with a 1986 Chevy 3500 Dually Crew Cab. This pickup was rated to tow a 10,000lb fifth wheel trailer with a proper bed mounted hitch. Yes we were over loaded. The truck did well pulling the trailer, even up a 17% 21 mile long grade in 90° heat. Of course it took us nearly an hour to climb the grade at 28MPH in first gear. We went up this same grade, with same truck and trailer once every year for 6 years along with about 10,000 miles of travel each year to other destinations. No problems, got to see the scenery at a slow pace while going up hills.

Going downhill was a different story. I would always shift down to the next lower gear than we climbed the hill in. Most of the time I had to use first gear to go down hills. Even in first gear on a couple of the steep down grades, I would have to use the brakes so much that I would have very little brakes left on the truck and trailer. The brakes would be over heated and have very little stopping power. Luckily I never got in to a situation where I had to stop quick. I always left lots of space between the vehicles in front of me.

Recently we purchased an MDT. What a difference in towing. Up hill no problem. Downhill no problem. I feel very safe while towing the 5th wheel with this new truck. The truck is a crew cab dually and is exactly the same dimensions as a Chevy or Ford standard dually crew cab LT pickup. The MDT is taller and looks a lot bigger but it's an optical illusion. Driving around LA in traffic is the same as when I drove the old truck only now I sit much higher.

The new truck is much more maneuverable, has more power and stops a lot better than the old one. The ride comfort is about the same.

Here's what convinced me I had made the right decision buying the new truck. The first time I towed the fifth wheel with the new truck, I went down a hill where in the past I had to use 2nd gear in the old truck and hit the brakes about 6 times to keep the engine from over revving while going down the hill. In the new truck, I set the cruise control at 55 MPH turned on the exhaust brake and never touched the brakes. The truck held at 55 MPH all the way down the hill.

For a big 5th wheel or heavy load an MDT or HDT is the best way to go, strictly from a safety stand point.