Still confused about old one ton vs new one ton--educate me but use small words please
suse1023 said
05:27 PM Feb 13, 2015
I think I am a bit close to my limit for truck/fiver combo and will find out for sure at the rally in Tennessee in May.
If I am right and I need a bigger truck, I want to learn as much as I can sooner rather than later, as if I need to move on up i'll do it as soon as I know for sure.
The truck is an 01 F350 dually 7.3 engine, crew cab 4x4 which is supposed to be good for up to 13500, again according to the dealer.
I've been told a few times that if I buy a later year truck with the same package, that newer truck can haul a lot more than my 2001.
why is that?
suse1023 said
08:00 AM Feb 14, 2015
Am I asking the question correctly?
More simply put, does a 2015 one ton truck have more hauling or carrying capacity than a 2001 one ton truck?
And if so, why?
Second Chance said
08:03 AM Feb 14, 2015
Susan,
This is a topic of much discussion on this and other forums. As for what you've been told, all of the major manufacturers have increased both the towing capacity and payload limits (GCVWR and RAWR on your yellow sticker on the truck) over the years. With most of the diesel pickups, you will run out of payload for your fiver's pin weight before you will run out of total (combined weight) towing capacity.
Before you do anything drastic, forget about what a dealer tells you... do the math using the yellow sticker on the truck (usually somewhere on or around the driver's door frame on the truck) and the truck's actual weight from the nearest CAT scales. Axle-by-axle weighing, if available at the rally, will also be an excellent way of accomplishing this (if you're talking about the educational rally April 27 - May 3, we'll be there too - hope to see you!). If you like, I can PM you or post a process for calculating everything that I wrote up for another venue.
Rob
Rob_Fla said
08:05 AM Feb 14, 2015
Yes, the newer trucks have stronger frames that will support and pull more weight than the older trucks thus they have more towing capacity.
The Ford 7.3 Power Stroke was a great engine that will give good reliable service for many years and many miles.
The limitation of the older trucks is the suspension, frame and in some cases the transmission.
The manufacturers have beefed up many of the components over the years and increased the tow ratings.
-- Edited by Rob_Fla on Saturday 14th of February 2015 08:10:17 AM
suse1023 said
08:09 AM Feb 14, 2015
I can't wait for the rally to get some real answers!
As for the newer trucks do you think the frames really are stronger? I always wonder if the plastic to high quality steel ratio is getting ever closer and don't trust those impressive commercials, though they are entertaining!
Second Chance said
08:11 AM Feb 14, 2015
Yes - they are. It's not just frames, but brakes, rear axles, suspension (springs), transmissions, and other things. The plastic is just trim and interiors.
Rob_Fla said
08:13 AM Feb 14, 2015
Oh yea, they are stronger for sure.
We currently pull with a 2012 GMC 3500HD DRW, it is much more solid and stronger than the older GM trucks we have had.
-- Edited by Rob_Fla on Saturday 14th of February 2015 08:14:58 AM
suse1023 said
08:17 AM Feb 14, 2015
Excellent, thanks so much for your info!
So is it possible to take my 7.3 engine and stick it in a newer model truck?
or to be more precise, is it worth considering?
The truck has just under 70k miles on it, the body shows the years while the engine isn't even broken in yet, according to the mechanics who work on it.
Cummins12V98 said
09:26 AM Feb 14, 2015
The fact is your 01 has the same frame as the new trucks only they have added some lipstick and have increased their towing hauling claims along the way.
Do a little research you will see what I am saying is true. Super Duty platform is basically the same since 1999.
Only one MFG meets the SAE J2807 standard that is RAM across their pickup line 1500-3500's.
suse1023 said
09:29 AM Feb 14, 2015
So are you saying that there is no real difference in the overall strength and capacity of older trucks vs newer models?
And if the frames really are that similar it should be doable to put my engine in a newer truck?
MarkS said
11:08 AM Feb 14, 2015
It is much cheaper to buy a 43' toy hauler and pull it with a SRW 2500. I know you can do this safely because I see them speeding down the hiway all the time. An alternative might be to paint a real aggressive name on your fiver like, "fulltime warrior" or " the life sucka" because I think Those names give you a special weight dispensation. The other choice is to be young and dumb and I'm pretty sure we would all choose that option.
Bill and Linda said
11:34 AM Feb 14, 2015
The critical point to know is that the term 1-ton / ¾ ton / ½ ton means nothing as to actual ratings any longer.Neither does the badge on the side such as 3500HD / 2500HD / F-450, etc.You must look at each truck individually, per model year and equipment to know it capabilities including the most over looked – rear axle weight rating.
For example, there are trucks that are labeled F-350 / 3500HD "1-tons" that actually have higher ratings (some, not all) than trucks that say 4500HD / F-450.
Your question is very important.It’s just necessary to look at the actual ratings and not the marketing hype that says “this truck can pull this much.”In the real world the “how much can it pull” rating is usually not the limiting factor.
Wish we could make this even simpler but it is important to get those specs and if you don’t understand them ask someone who does for help to be safe.(Almost the last person to ask is a salesman.Few know or will tell you the facts.)
Cummins12V98 said
06:15 PM Feb 14, 2015
suse1023 wrote:
So are you saying that there is no real difference in the overall strength and capacity of older trucks vs newer models?
And if the frames really are that similar it should be doable to put my engine in a newer truck?
What are you towing or what are you wanting to tow?
You have a very tried and true truck. What makes the newer trucks tow more is more power, 6 speed auto, and bigger brakes to name a few.
If you are ok with going up the hills a little slower than a new truck I would add air bags to what you have and let er rip as long as it feels fine and sits level when hooked up you will be fine.
You can tweak your power and beef up your trans also if you want for a lot less than a new truck.
Lots of options! I can tell you my RAM towing 20K is great to tow with. As I am sure the other new ones are.
suse1023 said
10:03 PM Feb 14, 2015
It's an 02 carriage cameo f34ck. Fully loaded is close to 14000, however I travel pretty light compared to many.
It does sit level even though it's a 4x4, and I know my late husband added shocks all around before we started hauling this camper.
Cummins12V98 said
01:24 AM Feb 15, 2015
Like I said if it sits level when towing and it feels fine I would not worry about it. Keep up your maintenance. If you are going to tow much in the mountains I would suggest adding an exhaust brake. PacBrake or BD are two I would recommend.
Sushidog said
07:40 AM Feb 15, 2015
At 14k lbs towing you are good to go!
Chip
jlb27537 said
12:49 PM Feb 17, 2015
suse1023 wrote:
I think I am a bit close to my limit for truck/fiver combo and will find out for sure at the rally in Tennessee in May.
If I am right and I need a bigger truck, I want to learn as much as I can sooner rather than later, as if I need to move on up i'll do it as soon as I know for sure.
The truck is an 01 F350 dually 7.3 engine, crew cab 4x4 which is supposed to be good for up to 13500, again according to the dealer.
I've been told a few times that if I buy a later year truck with the same package, that newer truck can haul a lot more than my 2001.
why is that?
First, you have enough truck for a 14K fiver. But to your original question. A one ton truck is a Class 3 truck. Hence the 3500/F350 etc in the name badge. Just like a 1/2 ton is a 1500/F150 (class 1) and a 3/4 ton is a 2500/F250 (class 2). And so on.
Your F350 DRW has 16" tires, a late model Class 3 DRW truck will have 17" tires. The 17" tires can carry more weight. The 17" wheel allows for larger brakes.
Your F350 has a 250 hp engine. It produced 505 lbs of torque. A late model diesel is in the 350 hp with 850 ft lbs of torque range. +/-
Your F350 has a 4 speed auto, everything today has a 6 speed. This gives you better gear ratios and the ability to keep the engine in it's "sweet" spot for pulling power.
I do not want to make this too technical, but yes, a late model Class 3 truck can both carry and pull more than a truck from 10-12 years ago.
Camr said
11:54 PM Jun 29, 2015
Cummins12V98 wrote:
The fact is your 01 has the same frame as the new trucks only they have added some lipstick and have increased their towing hauling claims along the way.
Do a little research you will see what I am saying is true. Super Duty platform is basically the same since 1999.
Only one MFG meets the SAE J2807 standard that is RAM across their pickup line 1500-3500's.
http://youtu.be/_f3CAnH7WIM
Cummins12V98 said
06:34 AM Jul 8, 2015
"Yes, the newer trucks have stronger frames that will support and pull more weight than the older trucks thus they have more towing capacity"
The 01 mentioned is the same platform as in todays F350's.
GM and RAM have upgraded their platforms in recent years. Sounds like Ford will retire theirs in 2017.
Camr
That is a great video. I guarantee you a "NEW" 2017 Ford will not flex either.
-- Edited by Cummins12V98 on Wednesday 8th of July 2015 06:38:11 AM
Terry and Jo said
07:52 AM Jul 8, 2015
This reminds me of the Dodge dealer that tried to bring up a YouTube video as an argument when he discovered that his Dodge 4500 didn't have the same weight capacity as the Ford F450 did. Granted that was back in about 2009, but he had to resort to a "distraction" to try to sell his truck.
Personally, I've driven a number of brands of trucks on uneven ground when we were on the farm. They all performed about equally, and I never saw the need to try to open and close the tailgate in an odd position.
I think I am a bit close to my limit for truck/fiver combo and will find out for sure at the rally in Tennessee in May.
If I am right and I need a bigger truck, I want to learn as much as I can sooner rather than later, as if I need to move on up i'll do it as soon as I know for sure.
The truck is an 01 F350 dually 7.3 engine, crew cab 4x4 which is supposed to be good for up to 13500, again according to the dealer.
I've been told a few times that if I buy a later year truck with the same package, that newer truck can haul a lot more than my 2001.
why is that?
More simply put, does a 2015 one ton truck have more hauling or carrying capacity than a 2001 one ton truck?
And if so, why?
This is a topic of much discussion on this and other forums. As for what you've been told, all of the major manufacturers have increased both the towing capacity and payload limits (GCVWR and RAWR on your yellow sticker on the truck) over the years. With most of the diesel pickups, you will run out of payload for your fiver's pin weight before you will run out of total (combined weight) towing capacity.
Before you do anything drastic, forget about what a dealer tells you... do the math using the yellow sticker on the truck (usually somewhere on or around the driver's door frame on the truck) and the truck's actual weight from the nearest CAT scales. Axle-by-axle weighing, if available at the rally, will also be an excellent way of accomplishing this (if you're talking about the educational rally April 27 - May 3, we'll be there too - hope to see you!). If you like, I can PM you or post a process for calculating everything that I wrote up for another venue.
Rob
Yes, the newer trucks have stronger frames that will support and pull more weight than the older trucks thus they have more towing capacity.
The Ford 7.3 Power Stroke was a great engine that will give good reliable service for many years and many miles.
The limitation of the older trucks is the suspension, frame and in some cases the transmission.
The manufacturers have beefed up many of the components over the years and increased the tow ratings.
-- Edited by Rob_Fla on Saturday 14th of February 2015 08:10:17 AM
As for the newer trucks do you think the frames really are stronger? I always wonder if the plastic to high quality steel ratio is getting ever closer and don't trust those impressive commercials, though they are entertaining!
Oh yea, they are stronger for sure.
We currently pull with a 2012 GMC 3500HD DRW, it is much more solid and stronger than the older GM trucks we have had.
Better Brakes, Better Transmissions, Better Suspensions .....
Same goes for all the manufacturers !!!
-- Edited by Rob_Fla on Saturday 14th of February 2015 08:14:58 AM
So is it possible to take my 7.3 engine and stick it in a newer model truck?
or to be more precise, is it worth considering?
The truck has just under 70k miles on it, the body shows the years while the engine isn't even broken in yet, according to the mechanics who work on it.
Do a little research you will see what I am saying is true. Super Duty platform is basically the same since 1999.
Only one MFG meets the SAE J2807 standard that is RAM across their pickup line 1500-3500's.
And if the frames really are that similar it should be doable to put my engine in a newer truck?
The critical point to know is that the term 1-ton / ¾ ton / ½ ton means nothing as to actual ratings any longer. Neither does the badge on the side such as 3500HD / 2500HD / F-450, etc. You must look at each truck individually, per model year and equipment to know it capabilities including the most over looked – rear axle weight rating.
For example, there are trucks that are labeled F-350 / 3500HD "1-tons" that actually have higher ratings (some, not all) than trucks that say 4500HD / F-450.
Your question is very important. It’s just necessary to look at the actual ratings and not the marketing hype that says “this truck can pull this much.” In the real world the “how much can it pull” rating is usually not the limiting factor.
Wish we could make this even simpler but it is important to get those specs and if you don’t understand them ask someone who does for help to be safe. (Almost the last person to ask is a salesman. Few know or will tell you the facts.)
What are you towing or what are you wanting to tow?
You have a very tried and true truck. What makes the newer trucks tow more is more power, 6 speed auto, and bigger brakes to name a few.
If you are ok with going up the hills a little slower than a new truck I would add air bags to what you have and let er rip as long as it feels fine and sits level when hooked up you will be fine.
You can tweak your power and beef up your trans also if you want for a lot less than a new truck.
Lots of options! I can tell you my RAM towing 20K is great to tow with. As I am sure the other new ones are.
It does sit level even though it's a 4x4, and I know my late husband added shocks all around before we started hauling this camper.
Chip
http://youtu.be/_f3CAnH7WIM
"Yes, the newer trucks have stronger frames that will support and pull more weight than the older trucks thus they have more towing capacity"
The 01 mentioned is the same platform as in todays F350's.
GM and RAM have upgraded their platforms in recent years. Sounds like Ford will retire theirs in 2017.
Camr
That is a great video. I guarantee you a "NEW" 2017 Ford will not flex either.
-- Edited by Cummins12V98 on Wednesday 8th of July 2015 06:38:11 AM
This reminds me of the Dodge dealer that tried to bring up a YouTube video as an argument when he discovered that his Dodge 4500 didn't have the same weight capacity as the Ford F450 did. Granted that was back in about 2009, but he had to resort to a "distraction" to try to sell his truck.
Personally, I've driven a number of brands of trucks on uneven ground when we were on the farm. They all performed about equally, and I never saw the need to try to open and close the tailgate in an odd position.
Terry