I have a question for the experianced RV traveler. I am planning a nine month trip out west and just purchased the mountain quide used by truckers. I am driving a 32 foot gas motorhome with a 454 cid engine, pulling a toad. At what grade of climb or decent do you stay away from 7-8-9% and does anyone diconnect thier toad at a certain percent of grade on a climb? When looking at the quide there are some nasty mountain passes at steep grades and hairpin turns going down the mountain. I am just looking for a rule of thumb. Thanks Rodger
53 Merc said
02:51 PM Mar 23, 2011
In some instances you will just stay to the right and do the best you can. I certainly wouldn't disconnect and drive the toad solo. Monitor your temps and just be patient. The 454 is a strong engine but it has a huge appetite for gas. Take money.
Bill Adams said
04:15 PM Mar 23, 2011
Where are you planning to travel that has those kinds of grades? You can travel every Interstate road without issue. If you look at a Rand McNally map and it shows you traveling on "a little gray road" you might want to reconsider your choice. Those gray roads aren't all bad, but we try to avoid as many as possible. We left out of (the wrong part of) Sequoia National Park trying to get to the right part. The shortest route was a bunch of little gray roads. Big mistake! When we finally made the campground they said "you took WHAT ROAD? I wouldn't take my 25 footer on that road! Another gentleman chimed in that he didn't much like to take his motorcycle on that road (an obvious exaggeration but you get the point). We have a 40' coach with a big toad and we came upon one switchback where I could look off the edge of the cliff (no guardrails) as the front end swung wider than the wheels.
I'm just saying....Take a look at your trip, avoid huge ups and downs when you can, but when you can't...make the trip, it will be great.
Luvglass said
09:51 PM Mar 23, 2011
You should be OK on any US highway. Going up just stay in the right lane and follow the big trucks. On the way down, but the transmission in a lower gear.
The Mountain Guide is a terrible book as far as I'm concerned. All it does is get people scared and when you finally get to the hills, they are n big deal. We've been over most of them many times without trouble.
Enjoy your trip.
jcw said
08:06 AM Mar 24, 2011
For safety sake, and your peace of mind, make sure you install an auxiliary braking system on your toad. Many, if not most states require it on towed vehicles over a certain weight (1500lbs?). That way if/when you need to brake, the toad will be braking itself, so the coach doesn't have to brake both vehicles. Also, be sure to use a lower gear on the down-slopes.
bjoyce said
09:03 AM Mar 24, 2011
Some people are bothered by grades and some area not, like Fred and myself, so for many the Mountain Directory is useful. I am comfortable with up to 7% grades. I did learn the hard way that 9 to 9-1/2% grades are not a good idea. If you leave Death Valley National Park heading west you have 6 miles of 9-1/2% grade, which required me to go 10mph downhill to keep control. That is an hour.
Edit: We also strongly recommend auxilary braking. I remember our auxilary braking system being broken during a drive down a 5 to 6% grade and we could tell the difference. We were glad when the package arrived at our next campsite with the replacement.
-- Edited by bjoyce on Thursday 24th of March 2011 09:05:25 AM
2fortheroad said
10:41 AM Mar 24, 2011
I agree, you won't find all that many grades steeper than 7% on the freeways. But there are many that are 5% and greater that are several miles long and you can get yourself in trouble if you start out going down one of these grades to fast. Nothing feels worse than when you apply your brakes and it feels like you are stepping into a bowl of mush and your not slowing down. As George said, gear down too a point that you don't have to use your brakes alot, pumping or stabbing your brakes just makes them heat up quicker and more useless.
-- Edited by 2fortheroad on Thursday 24th of March 2011 10:42:46 AM
The Bear II said
11:23 AM Mar 24, 2011
There is a braking technique used by RV'ers and truckers for long downhill grades. It's goes by a few different names, I call it extreme braking.
Like others have said you go down the hill in the same gear you went up or a gear lower. Determine a maximum speed you would like to reach while going downhill in the selected gear. For example with my heavy 5th wheel towed by my 1986 Chevy one ton with a 454 and 3 speed auto trans, I would usually go downhill in second gear on a 6% grade. My maximum speed in second is 55MPH but I liked to keep the speed around 45MPH for better safety.
Going downhill when I reached 45MPH and the speed continued to creep up, at 50MPH I would use the truck brakes and trailer brakes to slow the rig down to 40MPH quickly (make sure no one is following too close). Release the brakes and let the speed creep back up to 50MPH and hit the brakes hard again to slow it down to 40MPH. Keep repeating as needed to stay in the 40MPH to 50MPH range. As the grade changed and the truck was able to keep the 45MPH speed, no more braking was needed.
If I found it difficult to get the speed down to 40MPH, I would slow down further with hard braking and downshift into first and then lower my maximum speed for braking to 30MPH. One grade we often travel required first gear and the extreme braking. The grade is mostly 9% with some spots at 10% and is 21 miles long. It would take us about 45 minutes to travel the 21 miles. But we would have good brakes for the stop sign and hard right turn at the bottom of the hill.
This technique allows you to maintain speed control without overheating the brakes. The brakes will heat up but then have a chance to cool down in between the extreme braking cycles. Enjoy the scenery and your trip.
-- Edited by The Bear II on Thursday 24th of March 2011 11:25:50 AM
-- Edited by The Bear II on Thursday 24th of March 2011 11:26:42 AM
Bill and Linda said
01:57 PM Mar 24, 2011
The Bear II’s advice is spot on. Don’t “drag” or “ride” your brakes - ever. Apply firm pressure and slow the rig way down, then let off the brakes and let the speed build back up staying in a lower gear. (The lower the gear the better going down.) That will give the maximum braking effort and also allow the brakes to cool a bit. Never let the rig’s speed build up.
The advice of having brakes on your toad that work in harmony with the rig is critical regardless of the percent of the grade.
The problem with all our “advice” is we really don’t know anything about the rig other than the engine is a 454. This engine will most likely not be the problem if there is one. It is usually the transmission and / or the brakes.
If the rig has a 454 tied to an Allison 1000 transmission you have one condition and a really good one. If it is a lesser transmission its braking capabilities (hold back using the engine) may not be as good and the transmission could overheat going up or down hill. The point is that you need to take all this advice understanding that none of us really knows the actual capabilities of your rig.
Do I believe you’ll be “OK?” Yes, more than likely. But I also know long steep grades, up or down, can tax some rigs. Others are just fine. It just depends on all the specific equipment in use, the driver's technique and not necessarily the percent of the grade.
Just our perspective for what it might be worth.
Safe travels
Bill
ahoweth said
06:39 AM Mar 27, 2011
There is one thing to remember when climbing or descending a grade. It does not mean you are more of a man if you are the fastest one to the top. Getting there is what is important. Let your engine tell you when it is happy. Watch the tach if you have one. The most important thing is to take your time and do it right.
After experiencing a right front brake lock up on a long down hill grade, I spoke to a number of professional drivers about how they do it. Every one without exception told me the same thing. There is a little different philosophy about going down the grade and using the brakes. They said to use the brakes to keep yourself from speeding up, rather than to slow yourself down. It is a subtle difference but it has held me in good stead on many long descents.
Just use some common sense, keep it slow and you will be fine.
Thanks Rodger
For safety sake, and your peace of mind, make sure you install an auxiliary braking system on your toad. Many, if not most states require it on towed vehicles over a certain weight (1500lbs?). That way if/when you need to brake, the toad will be braking itself, so the coach doesn't have to brake both vehicles. Also, be sure to use a lower gear on the down-slopes.
Some people are bothered by grades and some area not, like Fred and myself, so for many the Mountain Directory is useful. I am comfortable with up to 7% grades. I did learn the hard way that 9 to 9-1/2% grades are not a good idea. If you leave Death Valley National Park heading west you have 6 miles of 9-1/2% grade, which required me to go 10mph downhill to keep control. That is an hour.
Edit: We also strongly recommend auxilary braking. I remember our auxilary braking system being broken during a drive down a 5 to 6% grade and we could tell the difference. We were glad when the package arrived at our next campsite with the replacement.
-- Edited by bjoyce on Thursday 24th of March 2011 09:05:25 AM
I agree, you won't find all that many grades steeper than 7% on the freeways. But there are many that are 5% and greater that are several miles long and you can get yourself in trouble if you start out going down one of these grades to fast. Nothing feels worse than when you apply your brakes and it feels like you are stepping into a bowl of mush and your not slowing down. As George said, gear down too a point that you don't have to use your brakes alot, pumping or stabbing your brakes just makes them heat up quicker and more useless.
-- Edited by 2fortheroad on Thursday 24th of March 2011 10:42:46 AM
There is a braking technique used by RV'ers and truckers for long downhill grades. It's goes by a few different names, I call it extreme braking.
Like others have said you go down the hill in the same gear you went up or a gear lower. Determine a maximum speed you would like to reach while going downhill in the selected gear. For example with my heavy 5th wheel towed by my 1986 Chevy one ton with a 454 and 3 speed auto trans, I would usually go downhill in second gear on a 6% grade. My maximum speed in second is 55MPH but I liked to keep the speed around 45MPH for better safety.
Going downhill when I reached 45MPH and the speed continued to creep up, at 50MPH I would use the truck brakes and trailer brakes to slow the rig down to 40MPH quickly (make sure no one is following too close). Release the brakes and let the speed creep back up to 50MPH and hit the brakes hard again to slow it down to 40MPH. Keep repeating as needed to stay in the 40MPH to 50MPH range. As the grade changed and the truck was able to keep the 45MPH speed, no more braking was needed.
If I found it difficult to get the speed down to 40MPH, I would slow down further with hard braking and downshift into first and then lower my maximum speed for braking to 30MPH. One grade we often travel required first gear and the extreme braking. The grade is mostly 9% with some spots at 10% and is 21 miles long. It would take us about 45 minutes to travel the 21 miles. But we would have good brakes for the stop sign and hard right turn at the bottom of the hill.
This technique allows you to maintain speed control without overheating the brakes. The brakes will heat up but then have a chance to cool down in between the extreme braking cycles. Enjoy the scenery and your trip.
-- Edited by The Bear II on Thursday 24th of March 2011 11:25:50 AM
-- Edited by The Bear II on Thursday 24th of March 2011 11:26:42 AM
The Bear II’s advice is spot on. Don’t “drag” or “ride” your brakes - ever. Apply firm pressure and slow the rig way down, then let off the brakes and let the speed build back up staying in a lower gear. (The lower the gear the better going down.) That will give the maximum braking effort and also allow the brakes to cool a bit. Never let the rig’s speed build up.
The advice of having brakes on your toad that work in harmony with the rig is critical regardless of the percent of the grade.
The problem with all our “advice” is we really don’t know anything about the rig other than the engine is a 454. This engine will most likely not be the problem if there is one. It is usually the transmission and / or the brakes.
If the rig has a 454 tied to an Allison 1000 transmission you have one condition and a really good one. If it is a lesser transmission its braking capabilities (hold back using the engine) may not be as good and the transmission could overheat going up or down hill. The point is that you need to take all this advice understanding that none of us really knows the actual capabilities of your rig.
Do I believe you’ll be “OK?” Yes, more than likely. But I also know long steep grades, up or down, can tax some rigs. Others are just fine. It just depends on all the specific equipment in use, the driver's technique and not necessarily the percent of the grade.
Just our perspective for what it might be worth.
Safe travels
Bill
After experiencing a right front brake lock up on a long down hill grade, I spoke to a number of professional drivers about how they do it. Every one without exception told me the same thing. There is a little different philosophy about going down the grade and using the brakes. They said to use the brakes to keep yourself from speeding up, rather than to slow yourself down. It is a subtle difference but it has held me in good stead on many long descents.
Just use some common sense, keep it slow and you will be fine.