We are staying at an RV park where we are paying 16 cents per kw hour for electricity. As we just began fulltiming this year, this is our first experience with paying extra for the electricity.
We've been trying to determine how many kw hours we use with different scenarios such as gas or electric water heater, computers on or off during the day, etc. It seems we are using about 30 kw hours per day regardless of what we turn on or off. We are running one electric heater at night.
At this rate it will cost us around $150 for the month when you include their $12.50 electric service fee.
My question is if anyone knows if there is a break even point where propane water heater, refrigerator and/or furnace is less expensive than electric. I understand it depends on the price of the propane and the electricity.
Another way of asking the question is at what electric price is it wiser to use the propane. It seems to us that 16 cents is a bit expensive, but we may be off base.
I know there have been discussions about this, but I couldn't find any answers to my questions. Any insights you have would be greatly appreciated!
Racerguy said
06:43 PM Feb 1, 2011
Somewhere on the Escapees forum there was a good general formula.We are paying 15 cents per KWH here in Florida which is about average .Propane is $2.79 a gallon and for us it's cheaper to heat with propane.Remember anything that uses electricity to create heat is a KWH hog.
bjoyce said
07:00 PM Feb 1, 2011
The formula Raceyguy is refering to is there is about as much heat in one gallon of propane as 22 KWH of electricity. At 16 cents a KWH if the propane was under $3.52/gallon (22 times 16 cents) than propane is cheaper than electricity.
Of course if you have to drive a long ways to fill the tank, the real cost is more.
Still your numbers seem high if you are running the water heater, fridge and heat on propane since 25 to 40 KWH is what we use going all-electric. (We have a 40 foot motorhome). Check for block heaters or other devices that are on by mistake and make sure you are not sharing your electricity with a neighbor. Two walkie-talkies (two-way radios) with someone watching the meter and the other turning on circuit breakers inside will tell you a lot. Start with all breakers off inside since that will tell you if the electricity usage is in your RV.
Serengeti said
06:32 AM Feb 2, 2011
First I can tell you that your refrigerator is using at least $20.00 worth of electric per month at a cost of $.12 KWh. You have to remember that the electric side of the refer is a controlled short and uses a lot of energy. The cost to operate a regular stix-n-bricks refer is about $3.50 per month You have to figure out the difference in the cost at $.16 KWh. Even if you put the refer on gas you need to keep the inverter/converter going to supply 12 volt to the brain of the refer. Some times the inverter/converter have issues and could be using a lot of energy. Good luck in your quest to find a problem, and by using the bjoyce method of turning breakers on and off is a good idea.
Bill and Linda said
02:34 PM Feb 2, 2011
In general, if you are on metered electric LP gas will be less expensive for hot water, the refer and heating. No question. Just like in a sticks and bricks, especially for hot water and furnace operation.If it were not, you wouldn’t see full-time “permanent” RV rigs with 200 lb LP tanks connected for heating and hot water.
You can do a lot of math, but after you do I can almost guarantee, based on experience, that LP is more efficient and less costly.My mom winters in Florida (full-time Airstreamer) with metered electric and we know from years of experience LP is the way to go although it is more trouble.
BTW, you would be surprised how much power those 12 volt lights take.It is not uncommon for my converter to be pulling 4 or 5 AC amps just for lights.That 600 or more watts per hour.So just saying, when you’re trying to conserve all that stuff adds up.
Gee 16 cents per kwh is really high - or so it seems from here - not to mention $12.50 as a base cost. I'd sure consider trying LP for a month.
Safe travels
Bill
NorCal Dan said
07:14 PM Feb 2, 2011
We found AZ. to be the most expensive place for electric. We now avoid parks that meter electric (on other than daily rate) as we can't afford them ;)
I enjoy telling this story, but at the time it wasn't funny. Staying at a park in AZ. they were charging $0.165/kWH. While there the governor of AZ. signed a law that stated RV parks could not charge RV'ers more per kWH than a single dwelling home owner. At the time that was $0.08/kWH. I called the office and asked them if they were going to lower the rate they charged me and they told me the new law didn't apply to them.
K & E said
09:32 AM Feb 3, 2011
Thanks for your comments. Like I said, we've never been charged for metered electric before other than at Wisconsin State Parks where they charge $5 per day extra for an electric site. I always thought that was too high, but not anymore.
We had no idea how much electricity an electric heater uses. After turning it off, we saw our daily KW hours drop from 30 to 18. Wow. Now we're experimenting with the water heater and refrigerator.
As they say, live and learn.
Hope everyone is staying warm in this cold snap the majority of the country is experiencing. 32 degrees this morning in Yuma. Ouch!
injunear said
09:33 AM Feb 3, 2011
Wow, that's outrageous. We pay .11 per KWh for commercial property in TN. At .16 per KWh propane would be much cheaper. You may want to get a portable LP heater. I guess we will have to ask the electrical rates for extended stay in southern TX and AZ when we go fulltime.
Wayne
bjoyce said
10:03 AM Feb 3, 2011
12 KWH from a 1.5KW heater means it was running 8 hours every day, which fits "overnight".
53 Merc said
07:25 AM Feb 4, 2011
Well, the discussion is relevant and has remained on target. Strange huh? I do want to inject one caveat here. Yesterday, it was my unfortunate experience to purchase propane from Fiesta RV Resort in Boerne, TX. Of course, it is my fault because I did not ask rates first. When my 40 lb tank was filled, I went to the office to pay. Almost choked when it was $40.00. I asked if that was correct, and was assured it was. My comment was, that is a dollar a pound, making it cost about $5.00 per gallon, based on propane weight of 4.65 lbs per gallon. They commented "Well, I didn't set the price". I told them I would not admit to it either.
At that cost, metered electric would be a bargain.
Always ask first just became my policy. Never assume they are reputable business people.
Racerguy said
07:50 AM Feb 4, 2011
Ran into that in North Carolina but it was only $ 18.00 for a 30 lb bottle which was ok if it's empty. But it would have been the same price to just top it off also which is a ripoff in my books. I also learned to ask before filling.
Bill and Linda said
10:34 AM Feb 4, 2011
Racerguy wrote:
Ran into that in North Carolina but it was only $ 18.00 for a 30 lb bottle which was ok if it's empty. But it would have been the same price to just top it off also which is a ripoff in my books. I also learned to ask before filling.
Absolutely true, you must look at the price of LP vs. electric in the equation. That’s just a rip off price and sometimes at a campground the price is “rip off” for LP and electricity.So you might want to check out the local prices for LP depending on the driving distance.
With that in mind, one thing to check on, especially if you are a bit new to this game, is to make sure if you tank is not completely empty that the price charged is per gallon and not a flat charge for a tank. For example, a 30lb tank is $18.00 no matter how much they put in as opposed to a per gallon charge.I have that situation locally and so I actually use a U-Haul dealer who sells, like most places, by the gallon, not by the tank.They also give a flat $1 off per tank for repeat customers.We use a little 5 lb tank for the grill which last a long time.$1 off on a $3 fill is a pretty good deal.
Just a word to the wise for those just beginning this little adventure.
Safe travels
Bill
Speedhitch said
10:58 AM Feb 4, 2011
I think the main thing here is to be conservative no matter what fuel you use.
We've been trying to determine how many kw hours we use with different scenarios such as gas or electric water heater, computers on or off during the day, etc. It seems we are using about 30 kw hours per day regardless of what we turn on or off. We are running one electric heater at night.
At this rate it will cost us around $150 for the month when you include their $12.50 electric service fee.
My question is if anyone knows if there is a break even point where propane water heater, refrigerator and/or furnace is less expensive than electric. I understand it depends on the price of the propane and the electricity.
Another way of asking the question is at what electric price is it wiser to use the propane. It seems to us that 16 cents is a bit expensive, but we may be off base.
I know there have been discussions about this, but I couldn't find any answers to my questions. Any insights you have would be greatly appreciated!
Of course if you have to drive a long ways to fill the tank, the real cost is more.
Still your numbers seem high if you are running the water heater, fridge and heat on propane since 25 to 40 KWH is what we use going all-electric. (We have a 40 foot motorhome). Check for block heaters or other devices that are on by mistake and make sure you are not sharing your electricity with a neighbor. Two walkie-talkies (two-way radios) with someone watching the meter and the other turning on circuit breakers inside will tell you a lot. Start with all breakers off inside since that will tell you if the electricity usage is in your RV.
You have to remember that the electric side of the refer is a controlled short and uses a lot of energy.
The cost to operate a regular stix-n-bricks refer is about $3.50 per month
You have to figure out the difference in the cost at $.16 KWh.
Even if you put the refer on gas you need to keep the inverter/converter going to supply 12 volt to the brain of the refer.
Some times the inverter/converter have issues and could be using a lot of energy.
Good luck in your quest to find a problem, and by using the bjoyce method of turning breakers on and off is a good idea.
In general, if you are on metered electric LP gas will be less expensive for hot water, the refer and heating. No question. Just like in a sticks and bricks, especially for hot water and furnace operation. If it were not, you wouldn’t see full-time “permanent” RV rigs with 200 lb LP tanks connected for heating and hot water.
You can do a lot of math, but after you do I can almost guarantee, based on experience, that LP is more efficient and less costly. My mom winters in Florida (full-time Airstreamer) with metered electric and we know from years of experience LP is the way to go although it is more trouble.
BTW, you would be surprised how much power those 12 volt lights take. It is not uncommon for my converter to be pulling 4 or 5 AC amps just for lights. That 600 or more watts per hour. So just saying, when you’re trying to conserve all that stuff adds up.
Gee 16 cents per kwh is really high - or so it seems from here - not to mention $12.50 as a base cost. I'd sure consider trying LP for a month.
Safe travels
Bill
We had no idea how much electricity an electric heater uses. After turning it off, we saw our daily KW hours drop from 30 to 18. Wow. Now we're experimenting with the water heater and refrigerator.
As they say, live and learn.
Hope everyone is staying warm in this cold snap the majority of the country is experiencing. 32 degrees this morning in Yuma. Ouch!
At .16 per KWh propane would be much cheaper. You may want to get a portable LP heater.
I guess we will have to ask the electrical rates for extended stay in southern TX and AZ when we go fulltime.
Wayne