Since this is such a great group of people, I'm gong to take a chance on mentioning this and hope I won't get blasted for being too picky. I'm a former writing teacher so have a little pity on me.
Anyway, for whatever reason, everytime I see it's (which only and always means it is) used as a possessive pronoun as in it's tires, it's scenery.......I cringe.
Its is the same as his or hers. Doesn't need an apostrophe to show possession like nouns do. So it's OK to use its just like his. If in doubt, try using his, if it works, it's its not it's.
Thoroughly confused yet? Hope y'all won't stop talking to me.
Sherry
Penny and Paul said
10:38 AM Jan 22, 2011
Sherry - Interesting post, and it made me chuckle! But it also made me think about writing things correctly. I don't think you're being picky - I found it helpful!
So, if I'm trying to say the campground is quiet, I could say 'it's quiet at the campground', but if I'm I talking about the flat tire on my MH, I would say 'its tire was flat'. Yes?
Penny
-- Edited by Penny and Paul on Sunday 30th of January 2011 02:19:58 PM
Sherry said
11:02 AM Jan 22, 2011
Ah Penny, I just heaved a big sigh of relief at your reply. Many thanks!!
and yes you are correct. If you could put his in the place of it then there is no apostrophe.
It's quiet.....since you mean it is quiet
and
his tires so..... its tires....no apostrophe.
Big Hug to you which I'll deliver in person at the rally, Sherry
2fortheroad said
11:04 AM Jan 22, 2011
Hope we are not being graded in grammar, if so I'm in "Deep Do-Do".
NorCal Dan said
11:05 AM Jan 22, 2011
Found this one day and liked it enough to post as a note on my facebook page. Your post reminded me so wanted to share here...
You think English is easy???
1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse .
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
7) Since there is no time like the present , he thought it was time to present the present.
8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
18) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
19) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
20) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?
Sherry said
11:09 AM Jan 22, 2011
No no, no grades and no other grammar comments. Dan's right, this is a crazy language for sure.
This one itty bitty thing just drives me nuts for some reason. Of course you could say this is nuts too or I'm just nuts anyway. And that's OK...I'll still think this is the greatest group a fruitcake like me could have found.
-- Edited by Sherry on Saturday 22nd of January 2011 11:29:57 AM
RVRon said
11:25 AM Jan 22, 2011
Sherry wrote:Its is the same as his or hers. Doesn't need an apostrophe to show possession like nouns do. So it's OK to use its just like his. If in doubt, try using his, if it works, it's its not it's.
Thanks for clearing that up Sherry. I'm also a bit of a stickler when it comes to spelling and proper use of words and never had a good rule for when to use the apostrophe in it's. Now if we could get the proper use of there, their and they're people like us could smile!
I will add a disclaimer though that in forum messages I'm not as critical about spelling and grammer. I consider it more like casual conversation and not subject to the same rigid rules of writing.
Sherry said
11:34 AM Jan 22, 2011
Me too Ron. I usually chalk it up to a typo. Make enough of those myself.
Not sure why this one yells at me so much. But I won't be gunnin' for folks who just consider me too finicky. I sure won't stop reading the posts no matter how they spell their its.
2fortheroad said
11:38 AM Jan 22, 2011
I have found Spell Check to be my friend. And believe me, I rely on (him, her) often.
Sherry said
11:44 AM Jan 22, 2011
Does work great if I could remember to use it. LOL Wish the "submit post" button could be made to do it "automatically" like my email does. Oh well, you just can't have EVERYTHING.
And it won't check on the they're, their, there, it's, its problems unfortunately. Wouldn't that be great...if spell check could also think? Or would it???
azrving said
12:18 PM Jan 22, 2011
Writing was never my favorite and I know there is much room for improvement, just read a few of my posts. I guess you will have to cringe or avoid my post because I'm too old to change and really have no desire to do so.
Darn! Now I feel like I'm being graded every time I post! LOL
"He was such a bad writer, they revoked his poetic license."
- Milton Berle
Terry and Jo said
12:51 PM Jan 22, 2011
Oh-my-GOSH!!!! It's the WORD POLICE!!!!
OK, Sherry......the devil made me do that. Sorry.
Actually, I would never really complain about constructive criticism. Even though I was raised way back in the day, I had never been instructed to "substitute" the word "his" as a way of checking. I'll have to try to remember that.
Since so many on the forums have a tendency to want to write blogs (and in my case, lengthy posts on the forums), it is actually a benefit for someone to bring such a grammar or spelling rule to everyone's attention. So long as no one particular individual is pointed out, such as, "Terry wrote......", it will probably be seen as something instructive. Now, having said that, there will be some who may complain. Just ignore them.
As a serious, amateur photographer, I always appreciate constructive criticism of my photos. That helps me learn more, and sometimes better, ways to do things. Now, if you REALLY want to have a "writer's fit", check out my blog. I'm sure there is a lot there to "pick on". If you do check it out, and if you find faults, I would appreciate your thoughts.
However, keep in mind that I am "Western", being from Oklahoma, and that sometimes I write in the "vernacular" of Western Okie. (Oh, and yes, I do know about NOT ending a sentence with a preposition.)
Terry
Sherry said
01:15 PM Jan 22, 2011
Definitely agree with you about constructive criticism. But I do think blogs and forums are casual affairs. So I'm not into worrying about sentence structure or sentences someone decided to end in with. That's not something I have a quarrel with.
This is just a pet peeve is all. Wish I knew why this one thing drives me more crazy than anything else. I used to be a composition instructor and know how to "grade" papers but would rather read vernacular than do that obviously. So Y'all just go on now and do whatever your little hearts desire. And if you want to start sentences with and, that's ok. And if you can remember the difference between its and it's, that would be just down right peachy!
Racerguy said
05:17 PM Jan 22, 2011
I'm glad I'm not the only one.I don't know why it bothers me but it does.I do struggle when it comes to proper placement of commas and it drives me crazy.
RVRon said
05:28 PM Jan 22, 2011
Sherry wrote:Definitely agree with you about constructive criticism. But I do think blogs and forums are casual affairs. So I'm not into worrying about sentence structure or sentences someone decided to end in with. That's not something I have a quarrel with.
OMG, Sherry!!! You broke all of the rules of grammar in one paragraph!
Sherry said
05:36 PM Jan 22, 2011
THANKS for noticing! I tried.............wasn't quite sure I'd succeeded..........there are lots to break for sure!
RVKevi said
06:22 PM Jan 22, 2011
Good post, Sherry.
rjenkins said
08:11 PM Jan 22, 2011
ok sherry you are making me feel real bad because i don't even capitalize or anything! email and texting etiquette, i think, has really thrown the english language into a tailspin. heck i'm even using apostrophe's in this post so you won't think i am a total cave man, lol.
anyways, i have always excused my lack of grammer by saying, i'm an engineer, i deal in numbers and formulas not words!
Ivey said
11:47 PM Jan 22, 2011
My pet peeve is people who say "I seen it............." Nothing else bothers me so much that I can't ignore it. But when someone says "I seen it...." I just have to correct it.
tnsauerkraut said
07:34 AM Jan 23, 2011
Ivey wrote:
My pet peeve is people who say "I seen it............." Nothing else bothers me so much that I can't ignore it. But when someone says "I seen it...." I just have to correct it.
I'm with you on that one... I'm also an editor, but can pretty much tolerate anything, except this one...
The other one that drives me bananas is when someone says "due to the fact that...", instead of a simple because.
Wildrose Acres said
08:04 AM Jan 23, 2011
Hi Sherry! Welcome to the forum. I am a teacher as well, and I also struggle with the temptation to correct the usage and grammar of others on forums. My philosophy is this - if I understand the gist of the person's message I don't point out the mistake, but if it unclear as to the meaning, I ask what was meant. For example, if a person doesn't have a subject in the sentence, but the previous sentence makes the meaning clear, I don't usually say anything.
This paragraph in your first post is a good example: "Its is the same as his or hers. Doesn't need an apostrophe to show possession like nouns do. So it's OK to use its just like his. If in doubt, try using his, if it works, it's its not it's."
The second sentence doesn't have a subject, but I understood your meaning from your first sentence.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I do try to make sure I set a a good example in my own writing, but I will often go back and find errors in my posts.
bzffr8 said
08:31 AM Jan 23, 2011
I may nevr post agian. I am finely beeing judged from the smart gurls i coppyed from in skool.
Actually my last name is English and I am terrible at it. But It is what it is or is it it's what it is?
Sherry said
09:13 AM Jan 23, 2011
Wildrose,
I've been on the forum for over a year now. Guess we haven't run into each other before. Hope we'll meet on the road. At the rally???
I don't actually struggle with any temptation to correct a specific post or poster. As I said earlier - no Grammar comments. I was taking a chance with this one and thought I'd throw it out for general consideration not criticism.
Misuse of the possessive its is usually done unknowingly. If that's the case, I thought they might like to know. If they want to keep doing it and fragments and run ons or whatever.....as I also said before, that's just peachy.
Your observation of the fragment is right on. And if you come across other posts of mine, you'll find that I start sentences with and and I put it lots of ...... and end sentences in prepositions and I write in fragments and run ons and ons and ons and I know it.
Blogs and forums are casual affairs me thinks. I just have an its/it's problem. Maybe I need some counseling.
LifeBeganInaWinnebago said
11:27 AM Jan 23, 2011
I knew this subject would open a can of worms. I'm terrible at writing and always did poor in English. I love to read the blogs and I find I'm drawn back to the ones that are written by RVers that are able to write well and explain themselves. I have a daughter that is 13 and loves to read and write. When she writes she can take you into her world with her ability to set a scene and tell a story, just amazes me, I wish I had that talent. For now I will just enjoy what others write and someday when I have time I would like to start my own blog to help me learn how to write and be understood.
Mark
-- Edited by LifeBeganInaWinnebago on Sunday 23rd of January 2011 11:28:16 AM
janni said
11:54 AM Jan 23, 2011
Wow!
Terry and Jo said
12:27 PM Jan 23, 2011
Mark,
I also wondered about starting a blog and what I would do with it. But after getting a lot of encouragement from others who have blogs, I broke down and started my own. So, I will encourage you to go ahead and start.
I have been trying to write a book that will include my thoughts and some of my photographs. It has not been a quick moving process because I can sometimes have a thought that I want to convey, but no photograph seems to relate to it. Or, there is a photograph that I can't match words to that would seem appropriate.
I decided to go ahead and start my blog because I thought it might kind of force me to be more proactive with my writing by making me write more often. While I don't write every day, I do at least make myself think about what I might want to write.
I would say that you ought to start sooner rather than later so that it might actually help you in learning. It doesn't require an everyday article, but it does help with making one to at least think about what to write.
Per the advice given me when I considered the idea in the beginning, I use two tools with writing. First, I compose and run spell and grammar checks in Microsoft Word. Then, I select all in the Word document and copy and paste it into Live Writer, which is a good tool for working with a blog. It even formats your document into the "margins" that Blogger uses. Live Writer doesn't have the editing and checking tools that Microsoft Word has, so I rely on both.
If you wish to see the advice I received when I was first thinking about a blog, check out this link:
And because of the wonderful people on these forums, I created my blog. After I announced it on the forum, I got even for encouragement from those folks. If you wish to see the nice comments they made, check out this link:
But, if you do this, let it continue to be fun and not a chore.
Terry
Wildrose Acres said
03:24 PM Jan 23, 2011
@ Sherry - my husband, "Kb0zke", and I both joined a few months ago, but I don't post much. We should have joined as one entity, but we didn't. We won't be at the rally this year due to our work.
Sometimes I think being a teacher is a curse. Nearly every adult had at least one former teacher they like to tell stories about. I often run into people who want to tell me about this teacher or that teacher. I wonder sometimes what is said about me. I taught from 1973 to 1989, so there are a lot of adults who may have stories to tell about me.
@ Mark - keep encouraging your daughter!
@ Terry - I would love to start a blog, but my life is crazy busy right now. My husband still works full time and I work part time as well as put some effort each day into de-cluttering around here. We are now just over four years from his retirement. We bought a Heartland MPG last month. We will use it to travel in the summers and on weekends until we can go fulltime.
I have thought recently about starting a blog where I would discuss my de-cluttering and the memories my stuff generates. Who knows, maybe today is the time to start.
Waggin Tails said
04:32 PM Jan 23, 2011
@Terry, I like the idea of writing a book. Think about the rich family history that can be preserved this way. I recall sitting with my wife's grandmother and taping a conversation about her heritage. I am not interested in searching for deep family roots or getting into genealogy. I would just like to leave something for my grandchildren. By the time they get interested in their roots, I may be long gone.
@NorCal, great example of the challenges English provides. I'm no linguist but I've been told English is more difficult to learn than Russian.
PS my pet peeve on grammar is who/that. I remember learning who is personal and that is impersonal. So it would would the girl who not the girl that.
LifeBeganInaWinnebago said
04:47 PM Jan 23, 2011
Terry, I may just start my own blog, thanks for the information and support. Joining RV Dreams is heading me in a direction that I would never have thought... Me, writing about something that someone would actually read.
JoAnn, my daughter just finish a book about a girl in a orphanage that received a snow globe as a gift. The globe was magic and would spell out words. Together they hatched a plan to leave the orphanage to find her mother. I would like to see about getting it published.
Mark
Terry and Jo said
07:49 PM Jan 23, 2011
Well, Everyone, I pointed out the two links because with only having started my blog 23 days ago, I am far from knowledgeable about them. I will say that I think it may help me towards writing my book. By the way, the book won't be about family history or any particular other topic. It is more about showing some of my photos with my thoughts about them. While I have shared some of what I've written with select others, perhaps I should put something on my blog to give all of you an opportunity to see the idea that I have.
But, for those that are "thinking" about a blog, I would say just jump in and do it. I'm actually glad that I did. If you are in a situation where life is hectic, perhaps it can be a time where you can relax and sit and put down thoughts. There were a couple of my entries (posted late at night) that I wrote up in about 15 minutes. So, it doesn't have to take a lot of time nor does it need to be long dissertations. (I think I hold the copyright or patents on long dissertations.)
I will say that Blogger has been easy to learn to work with and that Live Writer is very helpful in composing, especially with putting in pictures. You don't even have to have separate photo hosting sites to be able to put photos in your postings. I will say that if your picture file sizes are pretty large, you may want to get them down under 1 meg of size before putting into a post. I haven't tried larger ones in mine yet, so I don't know for sure how they would work.
I really do encourage those that are thinking about it.
Terry
Sherry said
07:58 PM Jan 23, 2011
Maybe this should be a new thread and if you think so, I"ll move it. Terry since you were talking about the ease of blogger, I wondered if you know why I have had trouble for months getting it to allow me to put upload pictures one at a time.
For instance, I write a paragraph and want to upload a picture from my computer. No problem. But once I put that picture in the blog, it will not let me upload anymore and put them in. It is like that function is frozen and will only work once per blog.
Therefore I have to upload them all at once, put them all in the blog in the same place and then cut and paste to move them around where they should go. It's been a real irritation for some while now but was not like that when I first began. There is no such thing as on line help that I can find and googling the problem only results in more folks complaining about blogger problems but no answers.
Haven't used Live Writer but perhaps I should if I could move that entire thing into the blogger. I tried using microsoft word to compose and that works great since you can cut and past it right into blogger but you can't move the pictures from there. They have to be uploaded and the applied to the post from within blogger.
Check my blog now on the January 23 entry. I followed the following process in getting that result.
1. First, I composed all text in Microsoft Word and in that program, I typed in the file name of the photograph I wanted to use at the appropriate places. Then the next paragraph and so on.
2. I "Select All" in Word and copied and then pasted it into Live Writer. All I then had to do was type in the title in the Title Bar of Live Writer and erase the title from the text body.
3. In Live Writer, I then used the "Insert Picture" feature to put in each one of the photos, using the file number as a guide. (Of course, I deleted the typed in file number prior to inserting the picture.)
After that, I played around with the "Align Text Left", "Align Text Center" and "Align Text Right" buttons to place the photos in place. I played around with Live Writer and managed to get the text to the side of the last photo.
Once I had done all the "arranging" I just pushed "Publish to Blog" and VOILA....there it was.
By the way, I think Live Writer is free (Jo downloaded it for me) and I also think there might be a Mac version available as well.
Oh, and all of those photos are over 1 meg in file size, so Live Writer and Blogger are handling them just fine.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Sunday 23rd of January 2011 09:56:16 PM
dream reachers said
10:46 PM Jan 23, 2011
I think it is wonderful when people use correct spelling, punctuation, composition, sentence structure ect. I have read many posts on this and other forums that don't use correct English but I have thoroughly enjoyed reading their comments and I really don't mind that they made mistakes. I would hate to think that anyone would hesitate to post for fear that they might be corrected. This forum has always been casual and open to all that might wish to contribute. I have read comments on other foums which tried to imply that someone that had made a post with spelling errors or other gramatical mistakes as being less intelligent so whatever they posted should not be of value. I love this forum because it is so friendly and not critical. I have a few pet peeves but overlook them because I value the content of posts. A new thread specifically for people that want to share writing techniques would be of interest to many without the possibility of offending general posters.
GlendaLaine said
03:49 PM Jan 24, 2011
I just read this thread today and am amazed. English is one of my very few natural talents, and I cringe over much of the dialog and spelling I see in emails, blogs, and even the occasion web page. My mother still (after all the years I've corrected her) says "seen" when it should be "saw". But my brother gets rudely excited when he catches me saying something wrong. Fortunately since I became unemployed/now retired, I now work part time from home calling European business people to give English lessons. (Yeah, I know. Sounds strange and weird.) I've learned a lot more technical details about our American English language and unfortunately discovered that I actually have a few long-used bad grammar habits. [I'm working on those.]
So far, I've had "learners' (not students) from France, Italy, Spain, Austria, Germany, Russia, and Japan who are so anxious to learn to understand English-speaking people both on the phone and in conferences. They also want to able to communicate their thoughts and ideas effectively. It's so frustrating though to try to explain correct grammar when I can't even remember the "rule" for it. Once they get to a certain level of English fluency though, pronunciation becomes much more important. They shouldn't talk too fast or pronounce words with the emphasis on the wrong syllable. That's when English-speaking people can't understand even correct grammar. I needed to call a customer service center last week and was shocked to talk with a man from India who not only spoke flawless English, but he talked S-L-O-W-L-Y! Yee haw.
I've also discovered that strict of using "may" to ask permission and "can" for ability is no longer a problem. The two words are used interchangeably now. AND. . .there's no such thing as a "dangling preposition" anymore. Since English (and all other languages) are "living languages", they are constantly evolving to reflect the way the common citizens talk. Between the internet and texting, many new words have become acceptable now. At some point "gona" will be an acceptable replacement for "going to". However, an apostrophe is STILL not needed in words like 1800s or 1950s because they are neither possessive nor contractions.
Since I've always worked in an office, my pet peeve comes from 'business communciation' when I hear very educated people say "at this point in time". It's redundant. Either say "at this point" or "at this time". They have the same meaning.
As for blogs, I even posted a message on mine about starting your own blog easily and free. It's at http://CasitaEscapes.blogspot.com/search/label/Start%20Your%20Own%20Blog. Sorry for the rant here, but I actually started creating a message for my blog after hearing some schools are no longer going to teach cursive writing to children. I'm shocked. High school graduates already can't spell, read, or make change. Soon they won't even be able to sign their name to buy a car!!
~~ Glenda ~~
janieD said
12:42 PM Jan 29, 2011
Sherry, I had to chuckle when I read your post. I am a decent (not great) writer and a reasonably intelligent person but just check with my husband and you will find I am terrible at spelling and punctuation. Luckily I have my very own editor along with me. Not only is he a talented writer he spells well and knows all the punctuation rules. I don't have him edit my posts, that seems to me to be a much looser and casual place but he does edit all my blog posts. And here, wait for it, corrects me all the time on the it's and its issue. You would think after all that correction I would get it right but my finger keeps wandering to that apostrophe every time I write it.
bubbadan said
06:13 AM Jan 30, 2011
Sherry wrote:
Since this is such a great group of people, I'm gong to take a chance on mentioning this and hope I won't get blasted for being too picky. I'm a former writing teacher so have a little pity on me.
Anyway, for whatever reason, everytime I see it's (which only and always means it is) used as a possessive pronoun as in it's tires, it's scenery.......I cringe.
Its is the same as his or hers. Doesn't need an apostrophe to show possession like nouns do. So it's OK to use its just like his. If in doubt, try using his, if it works, it's its not it's.
Thoroughly confused yet? Hope y'all won't stop talking to me.
Sherry
Sherry; first I would like to say thank you for teaching that takes a very special person. I am sure my post must drive you nuts, let me say I am very sorry, I was not a good student in school or college just made it through (there are reasons for this). I guess what I am trying to say is my spell and punctuations are terrible I don't post a lot because of it. I love reading the post here because some day i would like to full-time or just take extended trips, say 5 to 10 years at a time. Thanks a again for teaching and posting I really enjoy reading all of them, this is a great group.
Dan
Sherry said
07:46 AM Jan 30, 2011
Hey Dan, To discourage people from posting is just why I almost didn't "take a chance". There are spelling and grammar mistakes in nearly everyone's posts including mine as you see if you read the entire thread.
This is such a casual and welcoming place you should never hesitate to write in any manner that suits you.
I have this one thing that I thought I'd mention because it is so easy to fix and remember but I'm actually sorry I did it now since several people have commented that they wouldn't or don't post because they fear they aren't good enough.
That was never ever my intent and it makes me sad to read this from anyone. This is the last thing I'll say about this post. I was glad when it finally went away and hope it will again for good and not get resurrected.
I don't have a problem with "its" or "it's". Firefox spell check doesn't work on this site but it usually does. I forget which way is always "wrong" but I sometimes accept its recommendtion without thinking.
I do skip posts that are tedious to read.
I skip those using unclear fonts, no capitalization, intentional misspelling (like those "texting" misspellings), and more than very occasional use of dialect. That's why the little wheel on the mouse is there. I just scroll through those few. If this site allowed the option, I'd block those posters to save time. But it's not a big deal.
Life is too short to puzzle out intentional obfuscation.
Bubbadan, your posts are ususally pretty good. Nobody's writing is perfect, mine certainly is not. Until that unfortunate thread a few months ago, I hadn't noticed a particular problem with yours. The difficulty arises when people make that extra effort to be "wrong".
Everybody has their pet peeves. I don't post much here because I have to turn on "java script" to post. If I forget to turn it off I get all the garbage from the next web site.
fleamarketeer
rjenkins said
01:14 PM Jan 30, 2011
Glendalaine your post reminds me of a true story of when i was going to engineering school in the late 70's. as part of our 'overall' education, engineering students also had to take a certain number of credits of history and english classes. now back in those days, we had a very large number of students from iran and iraq enrolled in the college of engineering. not to be side tracked, but its amazing that these two countries later went to war with each other and we are now at war with iraq and on the brink of war with iran. these students were amazing to hang out with as we shared each others culture. there are many times that i wonder what has become of them and what has become of our world. anyways, back to my story. the iranian and iraqi students came from very well to do families and as such, knew english, both writing and speaking, perfectly. they had never been exposed to slang, bad habits, etc so their english was better than all of ours from this country, or at least those of us in the college of engineering. whenever we wrote term papers for our history and english classes (this was way before the age of computers), we would always ask them to check it for proper sentence structure and grammer. they gladly did because they used to get a kick out of that!
-- Edited by rjenkins on Sunday 30th of January 2011 01:16:04 PM
bubbadan said
05:02 PM Jan 30, 2011
Sherry wrote:
Hey Dan, To discourage people from posting is just why I almost didn't "take a chance". There are spelling and grammar mistakes in nearly everyone's posts including mine as you see if you read the entire thread.
This is such a casual and welcoming place you should never hesitate to write in any manner that suits you.
I have this one thing that I thought I'd mention because it is so easy to fix and remember but I'm actually sorry I did it now since several people have commented that they wouldn't or don't post because they fear they aren't good enough.
That was never ever my intent and it makes me sad to read this from anyone. This is the last thing I'll say about this post. I was glad when it finally went away and hope it will again for good and not get resurrected.
I'll be the first to admit that I can shred the english language. I looked back through my blog and have made many errors. Karin is the scholar amongst this twosome.
We do write articles for some online publishers. When Karin writes an article, it is rarely returned to her for any corrections. As for me, the editors have a field day.
That isn't going to stop me from posting, writing blogs, etc.
One person's strength is another's weakness.
GlendaLaine said
05:43 PM Jan 30, 2011
I continually tell the people I am teaching English to that I so admire them. I can only imagine the discipline and study to learn another language.
The best news tho for anyone unhappy about their current level of grammar is that English is a living language. It is constantly changing and adapting to how normal people talk. The internet, email, & texting have added a whole new chapter to English. I normally type the word 'tho' instead of the aging 'though' & it won't be that long until it becomes an accepted alternate spelling.
And for what it's worth, I've had an adding machine, calculator, & now spreadsheet available for so many decades I can barely add 2 & 2 in my mind. We're all much better at some things than at other things. . .which is why we're all needed & helpful.
~~ Glenda ~~
Terry and Jo said
07:08 PM Jan 30, 2011
Sorry, Sherry. It looks like it has been REVIVED again!!!! But, hey. Just don't worry about it.
However, I do have to differ with Glenda, but it is not meant as criticism in any way.
I hate the use of acronyms, shortened words, and almost everything that is used in the texting, IM'ing, Tweeting, and other social media forms. The reason is that our education systems are already failing our students, and even educators know this. Everyone needs to know the proper method of spelling because not everyone is on Facebook, Twitter, My Space, or wastes their time with phone texting all the time.
Unless our students can effectively use proper English, people who haven't had access to those social medias will have a very hard time with understanding what our people are trying to communicate. And, it could be worse than that. I asked a young man about what a certain abbreviation meant. He turned to me and with a rather arrogant attitude said something to the effect of, "Are you stupid? Don't you use "X" to "talk" to your friends."
Not only the poor choice of words is damaging, but some of the attitudes are as well.
Now, I must apologize for my rant. I guess it comes from being an old fogey and a former school board member.
However, I actually participate in a more relaxed method of communicating in forums and on my blog, thus I try to never criticize anyone for the way they write.
Now, to lighten this a bit, how about this oddity. In the beginning of this rant I used the word "criticism" but in the paragraph just before this one, the word is "criticize". What is with that???? Or, am I just a bad speller after all?
Terry
Racerguy said
07:44 PM Jan 30, 2011
I'm with Terry.The English language should NOT be a living language.Text message "shorthand" is a quick way to not have your post read by me. A few shortened words here and there are ok but excessive use of text language is very irritating.I hope those that post here realize this is a friendly discussion and not in any way a reflection on how we feel about any of our "Family".
-- Edited by Racerguy on Sunday 30th of January 2011 07:45:29 PM
Rick-n-Phyl said
07:50 PM Jan 30, 2011
Sherry,
Wow! I don't think I've ever seen a thread take off like this on a nonpolitical site. And it has really nothing to with RVing (if I can make a verb of that). But everything to do with a desire shared by almost everyone. Communication.
I think the conversation here says something about our demographic; mostly of an age in which we can remember actually having an education that emphasized grammar and gave it some importance. Not the outcome based attitude of "Whatever, as long as I know what you were trying to say, you're a winner".
I can still diagram a sentence, but have found no reason to in my adult life. A skill that has already gone down the probable path of cursive writing. But I must say that the concepts instilled through such elementary school pursuits have helped me with my ongoing avocation of Spanish self instruction. Now there's a language that knows how to live by its own rules. English, however, is mostly a loose chain link of exceptions. I learn like the "From Mars" man that I am. A frame work or grid on which hang everything in its place really helps me. I know everyone doesn't learn this way.
Of course in the public world we all form private judgements about others based on how we perceive their communication skills. Sometimes this creates what we called the generation gap, way back when.
Now we have what I call the No Problem Generation. I especially find them as young wait staff, who, after a request or a thank you respond with somewhat terse "No problem" or "Not a problem". The simple "You're welcome" is probably also an endangered species. I understand something of the social psychology of language, and I know why this bothers me, with its perceived underpinnings of "If you had run into anybody else but me, you ol' fart, this might be a problem." Sadly, it's like internet communication, wherein we never know how what we thought we were saying sounds to those who hear it
My on-line pet peeve: the difference between loose and lose.
OK, now I'm going to take my crotchity old self out of here and go yell at some kids to get off my lawn.
-- Edited by Rick-n-Phyl on Monday 31st of January 2011 09:26:28 PM
GlendaLaine said
07:52 PM Jan 30, 2011
No offense, Terry. I totally agree with you. It's sickening to think of how badly prepared today's high school graduates are to 'communicate' in today's world (or do math). I'm a bit of an old fogey too, and I'm still uncomfortable mixing 'may' & 'can' or having a dangling prepositions. Oh, & the term "Are you coming with?" I had to hear that question many times before I finally stopped expecting an end to the statement, as in ". . .with me?" That's part of the subtle & constant changes happening to languages all the time. Does anyone talk like they did in an old English novel? And think about all the English words now that are part of other languages because they just don't have a word for internet, website, texting, etc. And as bad as this winter has been, maybe English should be adding some of those different words Eskimos have for snow! LOL
~~ Glenda ~~
Racerguy said
08:02 PM Jan 30, 2011
Rick-n-Phyl wrote:
OK, now I'm going to take my crotchity old self out of here and go yell at some kids to get off my lawn.
-- Edited by Racerguy on Sunday 30th of January 2011 08:02:35 PM
Terry and Jo said
08:54 PM Jan 30, 2011
Rick-n-Phyl,
I love that last line. At least you are yelling and not using rock salt. (If you'all don't know what "rock salt" refers to, you are out of luck. I'm not explaining it here. Too polite of society here.) And how well I know about "Outcome Based Education."
Glenda,
Your reference to doing math also strikes a HUGE button with me. Why can't our schools teach children how to count back change? Do they really believe that none of their students will ever work retail or fast food? (I better go before I start in on the "teaching industry." That includes government agenciesm, by the way.)
Also, following your speaking of "olde" English, we viewed a video series produced by Focus on the Family called "The Truth Project." In it, the instructor told of a professor who provided the old "New England Primer" to his law students and asked them to read it. When the students returned, they spoke of what a difficult read it was. That is when the professor told them that the New England Primer was written to the education level of the local farmers of that time.
In a post on my blog, I wrote of how it has been noted that the "Greatest Generation" that won WWII and helped create such a vibrant society as we have today, did it all with an eighth grade education. AND, a lot of common sense.
Terry
Jake62 said
07:16 AM Jan 31, 2011
Terry,
This is way off topic; however, my wife & I loved the Truth Project series and enjoyed Del Tackett when he presented a "few" of the lessons in person at our church.
tnsauerkraut said
08:57 AM Jan 31, 2011
bubbadan wrote:
Sherry wrote:
Hey Dan, To discourage people from posting is just why I almost didn't "take a chance". There are spelling and grammar mistakes in nearly everyone's posts including mine as you see if you read the entire thread.
This is such a casual and welcoming place you should never hesitate to write in any manner that suits you.
I have this one thing that I thought I'd mention because it is so easy to fix and remember but I'm actually sorry I did it now since several people have commented that they wouldn't or don't post because they fear they aren't good enough.
That was never ever my intent and it makes me sad to read this from anyone. This is the last thing I'll say about this post. I was glad when it finally went away and hope it will again for good and not get resurrected.
Dan, I hope whoever sent you that PM was not anyone from this forum. I would hate to think that anyone is that smallminded. Please don't let that stop you from participating. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. My husband's spelling is atrocious, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have important things to contribute and the same goes for you.
Anyway, for whatever reason, everytime I see it's (which only and always means it is) used as a possessive pronoun as in it's tires, it's scenery.......I cringe.
Its is the same as his or hers. Doesn't need an apostrophe to show possession like nouns do. So it's OK to use its just like his. If in doubt, try using his, if it works, it's its not it's.
Thoroughly confused yet?
Hope y'all won't stop talking to me.
Sherry
So, if I'm trying to say the campground is quiet, I could say 'it's quiet at the campground', but if I'm I talking about the flat tire on my MH, I would say 'its tire was flat'. Yes?
Penny
-- Edited by Penny and Paul on Sunday 30th of January 2011 02:19:58 PM
Ah Penny, I just heaved a big sigh of relief at your reply. Many thanks!!
and yes you are correct. If you could put his in the place of it then there is no apostrophe.
It's quiet.....since you mean it is quiet
and
his tires
so..... its tires....no apostrophe.
Big Hug to you which I'll deliver in person at the rally,
Sherry
Hope we are not being graded in grammar, if so I'm in "Deep Do-Do".
This one itty bitty thing just drives me nuts for some reason. Of course you could say this is nuts too or I'm just nuts anyway. And that's OK...I'll still think this is the greatest group a fruitcake like me could have found.
-- Edited by Sherry on Saturday 22nd of January 2011 11:29:57 AM
Thanks for clearing that up Sherry. I'm also a bit of a stickler when it comes to spelling and proper use of words and never had a good rule for when to use the apostrophe in it's. Now if we could get the proper use of there, their and they're people like us could smile!
I will add a disclaimer though that in forum messages I'm not as critical about spelling and grammer. I consider it more like casual conversation and not subject to the same rigid rules of writing.
Not sure why this one yells at me so much. But I won't be gunnin' for folks who just consider me too finicky. I sure won't stop reading the posts no matter how they spell their its.
And it won't check on the they're, their, there, it's, its problems unfortunately. Wouldn't that be great...if spell check could also think? Or would it???
Writing was never my favorite and I know there is much room for improvement, just read a few of my posts.
I guess you will have to cringe or avoid my post because I'm too old to change and really have no desire to do so.
Darn! Now I feel like I'm being graded every time I post! LOL
"He was such a bad writer, they revoked his poetic license."
- Milton Berle
OK, Sherry......the devil made me do that. Sorry.
Actually, I would never really complain about constructive criticism. Even though I was raised way back in the day, I had never been instructed to "substitute" the word "his" as a way of checking. I'll have to try to remember that.
Since so many on the forums have a tendency to want to write blogs (and in my case, lengthy posts on the forums), it is actually a benefit for someone to bring such a grammar or spelling rule to everyone's attention. So long as no one particular individual is pointed out, such as, "Terry wrote......", it will probably be seen as something instructive. Now, having said that, there will be some who may complain. Just ignore them.
As a serious, amateur photographer, I always appreciate constructive criticism of my photos. That helps me learn more, and sometimes better, ways to do things. Now, if you REALLY want to have a "writer's fit", check out my blog. I'm sure there is a lot there to "pick on". If you do check it out, and if you find faults, I would appreciate your thoughts.
However, keep in mind that I am "Western", being from Oklahoma, and that sometimes I write in the "vernacular" of Western Okie. (Oh, and yes, I do know about NOT ending a sentence with a preposition.)
Terry
Definitely agree with you about constructive criticism. But I do think blogs and forums are casual affairs. So I'm not into worrying about sentence structure or sentences someone decided to end in with. That's not something I have a quarrel with.
This is just a pet peeve is all. Wish I knew why this one thing drives me more crazy than anything else. I used to be a composition instructor and know how to "grade" papers but would rather read vernacular than do that obviously. So Y'all just go on now and do whatever your little hearts desire. And if you want to start sentences with and, that's ok. And if you can remember the difference between its and it's, that would be just down right peachy!
I'm with you on that one... I'm also an editor, but can pretty much tolerate anything, except this one...
The other one that drives me bananas is when someone says "due to the fact that...", instead of a simple because.
Actually my last name is English and I am terrible at it. But It is what it is or is it it's what it is?
Wildrose,
I've been on the forum for over a year now. Guess we haven't run into each other before. Hope we'll meet on the road. At the rally???
I don't actually struggle with any temptation to correct a specific post or poster. As I said earlier - no Grammar comments. I was taking a chance with this one and thought I'd throw it out for general consideration not criticism.
Misuse of the possessive its is usually done unknowingly. If that's the case, I thought they might like to know. If they want to keep doing it and fragments and run ons or whatever.....as I also said before, that's just peachy.
Your observation of the fragment is right on. And if you come across other posts of mine, you'll find that I start sentences with and and I put it lots of ...... and end sentences in prepositions and I write in fragments and run ons and ons and ons and I know it.
Blogs and forums are casual affairs me thinks. I just have an its/it's problem. Maybe I need some counseling.
-- Edited by LifeBeganInaWinnebago on Sunday 23rd of January 2011 11:28:16 AM
I also wondered about starting a blog and what I would do with it. But after getting a lot of encouragement from others who have blogs, I broke down and started my own. So, I will encourage you to go ahead and start.
I have been trying to write a book that will include my thoughts and some of my photographs. It has not been a quick moving process because I can sometimes have a thought that I want to convey, but no photograph seems to relate to it. Or, there is a photograph that I can't match words to that would seem appropriate.
I decided to go ahead and start my blog because I thought it might kind of force me to be more proactive with my writing by making me write more often. While I don't write every day, I do at least make myself think about what I might want to write.
I would say that you ought to start sooner rather than later so that it might actually help you in learning. It doesn't require an everyday article, but it does help with making one to at least think about what to write.
Per the advice given me when I considered the idea in the beginning, I use two tools with writing. First, I compose and run spell and grammar checks in Microsoft Word. Then, I select all in the Word document and copy and paste it into Live Writer, which is a good tool for working with a blog. It even formats your document into the "margins" that Blogger uses. Live Writer doesn't have the editing and checking tools that Microsoft Word has, so I rely on both.
If you wish to see the advice I received when I was first thinking about a blog, check out this link:
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=91511&p=3&topicID=39862356
And because of the wonderful people on these forums, I created my blog. After I announced it on the forum, I got even for encouragement from those folks. If you wish to see the nice comments they made, check out this link:
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=91511&p=3&topicID=40223668
But, if you do this, let it continue to be fun and not a chore.
Terry
But, for those that are "thinking" about a blog, I would say just jump in and do it. I'm actually glad that I did. If you are in a situation where life is hectic, perhaps it can be a time where you can relax and sit and put down thoughts. There were a couple of my entries (posted late at night) that I wrote up in about 15 minutes. So, it doesn't have to take a lot of time nor does it need to be long dissertations. (I think I hold the copyright or patents on long dissertations.)
I will say that Blogger has been easy to learn to work with and that Live Writer is very helpful in composing, especially with putting in pictures. You don't even have to have separate photo hosting sites to be able to put photos in your postings. I will say that if your picture file sizes are pretty large, you may want to get them down under 1 meg of size before putting into a post. I haven't tried larger ones in mine yet, so I don't know for sure how they would work.
I really do encourage those that are thinking about it.
Terry
Maybe this should be a new thread and if you think so, I"ll move it.
Terry since you were talking about the ease of blogger, I wondered if you know why I have had trouble for months getting it to allow me to put upload pictures one at a time.
For instance, I write a paragraph and want to upload a picture from my computer. No problem. But once I put that picture in the blog, it will not let me upload anymore and put them in. It is like that function is frozen and will only work once per blog.
Therefore I have to upload them all at once, put them all in the blog in the same place and then cut and paste to move them around where they should go. It's been a real irritation for some while now but was not like that when I first began.
There is no such thing as on line help that I can find and googling the problem only results in more folks complaining about blogger problems but no answers.
Haven't used Live Writer but perhaps I should if I could move that entire thing into the blogger. I tried using microsoft word to compose and that works great since you can cut and past it right into blogger but you can't move the pictures from there. They have to be uploaded and the applied to the post from within blogger.
Any ideas about what's going on?
Sherry
www.directionofourdreams.blogspot.com
Check my blog now on the January 23 entry. I followed the following process in getting that result.
1. First, I composed all text in Microsoft Word and in that program, I typed in the file name of the photograph I wanted to use at the appropriate places. Then the next paragraph and so on.
2. I "Select All" in Word and copied and then pasted it into Live Writer. All I then had to do was type in the title in the Title Bar of Live Writer and erase the title from the text body.
3. In Live Writer, I then used the "Insert Picture" feature to put in each one of the photos, using the file number as a guide. (Of course, I deleted the typed in file number prior to inserting the picture.)
After that, I played around with the "Align Text Left", "Align Text Center" and "Align Text Right" buttons to place the photos in place. I played around with Live Writer and managed to get the text to the side of the last photo.
Once I had done all the "arranging" I just pushed "Publish to Blog" and VOILA....there it was.
By the way, I think Live Writer is free (Jo downloaded it for me) and I also think there might be a Mac version available as well.
Oh, and all of those photos are over 1 meg in file size, so Live Writer and Blogger are handling them just fine.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Sunday 23rd of January 2011 09:56:16 PM
So far, I've had "learners' (not students) from France, Italy, Spain, Austria, Germany, Russia, and Japan who are so anxious to learn to understand English-speaking people both on the phone and in conferences. They also want to able to communicate their thoughts and ideas effectively. It's so frustrating though to try to explain correct grammar when I can't even remember the "rule" for it. Once they get to a certain level of English fluency though, pronunciation becomes much more important. They shouldn't talk too fast or pronounce words with the emphasis on the wrong syllable. That's when English-speaking people can't understand even correct grammar. I needed to call a customer service center last week and was shocked to talk with a man from India who not only spoke flawless English, but he talked S-L-O-W-L-Y! Yee haw.
I've also discovered that strict of using "may" to ask permission and "can" for ability is no longer a problem. The two words are used interchangeably now. AND. . .there's no such thing as a "dangling preposition" anymore. Since English (and all other languages) are "living languages", they are constantly evolving to reflect the way the common citizens talk. Between the internet and texting, many new words have become acceptable now. At some point "gona" will be an acceptable replacement for "going to". However, an apostrophe is STILL not needed in words like 1800s or 1950s because they are neither possessive nor contractions.
Since I've always worked in an office, my pet peeve comes from 'business communciation' when I hear very educated people say "at this point in time". It's redundant. Either say "at this point" or "at this time". They have the same meaning.
As for blogs, I even posted a message on mine about starting your own blog easily and free. It's at http://CasitaEscapes.blogspot.com/search/label/Start%20Your%20Own%20Blog. Sorry for the rant here, but I actually started creating a message for my blog after hearing some schools are no longer going to teach cursive writing to children. I'm shocked. High school graduates already can't spell, read, or make change. Soon they won't even be able to sign their name to buy a car!!
~~ Glenda ~~
I had to chuckle when I read your post. I am a decent (not great) writer and a reasonably intelligent person but just check with my husband and you will find I am terrible at spelling and punctuation. Luckily I have my very own editor along with me. Not only is he a talented writer he spells well and knows all the punctuation rules. I don't have him edit my posts, that seems to me to be a much looser and casual place but he does edit all my blog posts. And here, wait for it, corrects me all the time on the it's and its issue. You would think after all that correction I would get it right but my finger keeps wandering to that apostrophe every time I write it.
Dan
To discourage people from posting is just why I almost didn't "take a chance". There are spelling and grammar mistakes in nearly everyone's posts including mine as you see if you read the entire thread.
This is such a casual and welcoming place you should never hesitate to write in any manner that suits you.
I have this one thing that I thought I'd mention because it is so easy to fix and remember but I'm actually sorry I did it now since several people have commented that they wouldn't or don't post because they fear they aren't good enough.
That was never ever my intent and it makes me sad to read this from anyone. This is the last thing I'll say about this post. I was glad when it finally went away and hope it will again for good and not get resurrected.
Sherry
www.directionofourdreams.blogspot.com
I don't have a problem with "its" or "it's". Firefox spell check doesn't work on this site but it usually does. I forget which way is always "wrong" but I sometimes accept its recommendtion without thinking.
I do skip posts that are tedious to read.
I skip those using unclear fonts, no capitalization, intentional misspelling (like those "texting" misspellings), and more than very occasional use of dialect. That's why the little wheel on the mouse is there. I just scroll through those few. If this site allowed the option, I'd block those posters to save time. But it's not a big deal.
Life is too short to puzzle out intentional obfuscation.
Bubbadan, your posts are ususally pretty good. Nobody's writing is perfect, mine certainly is not. Until that unfortunate thread a few months ago, I hadn't noticed a particular problem with yours. The difficulty arises when people make that extra effort to be "wrong".
Everybody has their pet peeves. I don't post much here because I have to turn on "java script" to post. If I forget to turn it off I get all the garbage from the next web site.
fleamarketeer
now back in those days, we had a very large number of students from iran and iraq enrolled in the college of engineering. not to be side tracked, but its amazing that these two countries later went to war with each other and we are now at war with iraq and on the brink of war with iran. these students were amazing to hang out with as we shared each others culture. there are many times that i wonder what has become of them and what has become of our world.
anyways, back to my story. the iranian and iraqi students came from very well to do families and as such, knew english, both writing and speaking, perfectly. they had never been exposed to slang, bad habits, etc so their english was better than all of ours from this country, or at least those of us in the college of engineering.
whenever we wrote term papers for our history and english classes (this was way before the age of computers), we would always ask them to check it for proper sentence structure and grammer. they gladly did because they used to get a kick out of that!
-- Edited by rjenkins on Sunday 30th of January 2011 01:16:04 PM
I'll be the first to admit that I can shred the english language. I looked back through my blog and have made many errors. Karin is the scholar amongst this twosome.
We do write articles for some online publishers. When Karin writes an article, it is rarely returned to her for any corrections. As for me, the editors have a field day.
That isn't going to stop me from posting, writing blogs, etc.
One person's strength is another's weakness.
The best news tho for anyone unhappy about their current level of grammar is that English is a living language. It is constantly changing and adapting to how normal people talk. The internet, email, & texting have added a whole new chapter to English. I normally type the word 'tho' instead of the aging 'though' & it won't be that long until it becomes an accepted alternate spelling.
And for what it's worth, I've had an adding machine, calculator, & now spreadsheet available for so many decades I can barely add 2 & 2 in my mind. We're all much better at some things than at other things. . .which is why we're all needed & helpful.
~~ Glenda ~~
However, I do have to differ with Glenda, but it is not meant as criticism in any way.
I hate the use of acronyms, shortened words, and almost everything that is used in the texting, IM'ing, Tweeting, and other social media forms. The reason is that our education systems are already failing our students, and even educators know this. Everyone needs to know the proper method of spelling because not everyone is on Facebook, Twitter, My Space, or wastes their time with phone texting all the time.
Unless our students can effectively use proper English, people who haven't had access to those social medias will have a very hard time with understanding what our people are trying to communicate. And, it could be worse than that. I asked a young man about what a certain abbreviation meant. He turned to me and with a rather arrogant attitude said something to the effect of, "Are you stupid? Don't you use "X" to "talk" to your friends."
Not only the poor choice of words is damaging, but some of the attitudes are as well.
Now, I must apologize for my rant. I guess it comes from being an old fogey and a former school board member.
However, I actually participate in a more relaxed method of communicating in forums and on my blog, thus I try to never criticize anyone for the way they write.
Now, to lighten this a bit, how about this oddity. In the beginning of this rant I used the word "criticism" but in the paragraph just before this one, the word is "criticize". What is with that???? Or, am I just a bad speller after all?
Terry
-- Edited by Racerguy on Sunday 30th of January 2011 07:45:29 PM
Wow! I don't think I've ever seen a thread take off like this on a nonpolitical site. And it has really nothing to with RVing (if I can make a verb of that). But everything to do with a desire shared by almost everyone. Communication.
I think the conversation here says something about our demographic; mostly of an age in which we can remember actually having an education that emphasized grammar and gave it some importance. Not the outcome based attitude of "Whatever, as long as I know what you were trying to say, you're a winner".
I can still diagram a sentence, but have found no reason to in my adult life. A skill that has already gone down the probable path of cursive writing. But I must say that the concepts instilled through such elementary school pursuits have helped me with my ongoing avocation of Spanish self instruction. Now there's a language that knows how to live by its own rules. English, however, is mostly a loose chain link of exceptions. I learn like the "From Mars" man that I am. A frame work or grid on which hang everything in its place really helps me. I know everyone doesn't learn this way.
Of course in the public world we all form private judgements about others based on how we perceive their communication skills. Sometimes this creates what we called the generation gap, way back when.
Now we have what I call the No Problem Generation. I especially find them as young wait staff, who, after a request or a thank you respond with somewhat terse "No problem" or "Not a problem". The simple "You're welcome" is probably also an endangered species. I understand something of the social psychology of language, and I know why this bothers me, with its perceived underpinnings of "If you had run into anybody else but me, you ol' fart, this might be a problem." Sadly, it's like internet communication, wherein we never know how what we thought we were saying sounds to those who hear it
My on-line pet peeve: the difference between loose and lose.
OK, now I'm going to take my crotchity old self out of here and go yell at some kids to get off my lawn.
-- Edited by Rick-n-Phyl on Monday 31st of January 2011 09:26:28 PM
-- Edited by Racerguy on Sunday 30th of January 2011 08:02:35 PM
I love that last line. At least you are yelling and not using rock salt. (If you'all don't know what "rock salt" refers to, you are out of luck. I'm not explaining it here. Too polite of society here.) And how well I know about "Outcome Based Education."
Glenda,
Your reference to doing math also strikes a HUGE button with me. Why can't our schools teach children how to count back change? Do they really believe that none of their students will ever work retail or fast food? (I better go before I start in on the "teaching industry." That includes government agenciesm, by the way.)
Also, following your speaking of "olde" English, we viewed a video series produced by Focus on the Family called "The Truth Project." In it, the instructor told of a professor who provided the old "New England Primer" to his law students and asked them to read it. When the students returned, they spoke of what a difficult read it was. That is when the professor told them that the New England Primer was written to the education level of the local farmers of that time.
In a post on my blog, I wrote of how it has been noted that the "Greatest Generation" that won WWII and helped create such a vibrant society as we have today, did it all with an eighth grade education. AND, a lot of common sense.
Terry