Hey folks, We've landed our first workamping gig for next summer...YAY!! My question for the experienced out there, this being our first 50 amp rig, is that the site is 30 amp. What issues could we foresee having, anything major? We're not big electric users to start, and have one 15K BTU AC in the rig. Thanks!
Karen
Paul and Jo said
05:55 PM Oct 27, 2010
karen and al wrote:Hey folks, We've landed our first workamping gig for next summer...YAY!! My question for the experienced out there, this being our first 50 amp rig, is that the site is 30 amp. What issues could we foresee having, anything major? We're not big electric users to start, and have one 15K BTU AC in the rig. Thanks! Karen
I'm sure that others more knowledgeable than me will chip in but, considering that you only have one 15K BTU AC and you state that you're not big electric users, it sounds like you will be just fine on the 30 amp. I cannot foresee any major, or minor, problems ... unless you start adding in high-amp-using add-ons.
btw ... congratulations on getting that first gig!
Paul
Racerguy said
07:11 PM Oct 27, 2010
You shouldn't have a problem as long as it is a properly wired 30 AMP system.Our 5ver is a 50 amp unit also but have had to use 30 amp at times and have had one that would not even handle one air conditioner but recently had a 30 amper that ran both Air Conditioners at the same time no problem.We are pretty big electrical users so that should give you some idea.Just make sure you use a Surge Protector.
Old Snipe said
07:21 PM Oct 27, 2010
We have a 50 amp MH and when we have only a 30 amp connection we may have to turn off an appliance to use another one, such as turn off the A/C while using the microwave. It's only a minor inconveinance. If you overload the 30 amp circuit, you may trip the breaker on the campground electrical box where you plug in.
Best Regards!
bjoyce said
07:57 PM Oct 27, 2010
We use the two high powered appliance rule in our rig when on 30AMP and we check with each other to make sure we can run the coffee pot, the washer/dryer, the hair dryer, or the toaster. It has been a long time since we tripped a 30AMP breaker. We are lucky since our Suburban hot water heater has a higher set point on electric than propane so if we turn off the electric and turn it on later the water heats a bit more. Our AC is also a heat pump so we also use it to heat as long as the outside is over about 40 to 42 degrees, otherwise it won't keep up. (On 50AMP our two heat pump/ACs can keep us warm down to 30 degrees because they have automatic de-ice modes and the furnace automatically comes on below 30.) The main thing that works for us is to communicate so we both understand what can be run at any given time.
-- Edited by bjoyce on Wednesday 27th of October 2010 08:00:10 PM
NorCal Dan said
09:21 AM Oct 28, 2010
Hopefully your work location is not in a hot location, or, you will be able to park your rig in the shade. 30 amps doesn't go very far when running HWH, fridge, a/c, microwave, hair dryer, coffee pot, etc. Most workamping jobs we have had provided our site and electric but not propane, so I tend to run everything on electric and save the propane.
Howard said
09:32 AM Oct 28, 2010
As usual, good advice.
Racerguy makes a good point. Not all 30-amp services are created equally. Many don't provide all the amps they are supposed to and it often depends on how many people are on the same circuit and using it at the same time.
I agree that is important to have a "surge protector with voltage protection" for those times when your voltage might go too low during periods of high use on the circuit.
If you have a good 30-amp service where you will be, you shouldn't have any problems. I like Bill's "two high powered appliance rule". Anything that heats or cools uses lots of amps - air conditioner, water heater on electric, blow dryers, toasters, microwaves/convection ovens, electric fireplaces, electric heaters, etc.
If you don't have more than two of those on at any one time, you should be fine. Also, keep in mind that high powered appliance use a surge of amps upon start-up, so even though you may be able to run three or more high powered appliances at the same time on 30 amps, you are more likely to trip a breaker when turning them on.
You should be just fine, but the more you know, the better you can adjust if there is a problem with the service.
TXRVr said
10:51 AM Oct 28, 2010
I have a large motor home and had the same 30A situation at one of my hosting jobs this summer.
Since the temps were high the AC seemed to want to run continully, which isn't good for it, not to mention that power management became a nuisance. I solved the issue by going to a thrft store and buying a used window air unit. Then I plugged it into a regular 120V outlet on the power pedestal using a heavy duty extension cord. It wasn't pretty, but it was cheap and we kept cool without having to turn things on and off all the time.
With 30A service the main issue is voltage drop. If your site is at the end of the line from the transformer box, that may be significant especially if there are other users before you in that line. When there is a voltage drop then amps increase. When amps increase so does the heat in the wiring which is a safety issue. Low voltage can damage electronic equipment and appliances.
As others have mentioned you might need to do some power management so knowing when the voltage is low helps with that. It's a good idea to buy a plug in voltage meter (Radio Shack or online) so that you can monitor that condition. In addition, by monitoring voltage when you turn on a specific appliance you'll learn which one in your rig is the most power hungry.
Bill and Linda said
02:30 PM Oct 28, 2010
I might add a few “trips” that could be of assistance:
First, you would be surprised at how many amps the refrigerator takes.5 is not uncommon.That may not sound like much, but it all adds up to the 30 amp limit.Other than the air conditioner / heat pump, naturally the biggest electrical offender that can run on gas, like the refrigerator, is the electric water heater.When both the water heater and the refrigerator are drawing max power they add up to well over half of your available amps.
Oh, you may not be aware, but the 30 amp power limit is actually closer to 25 amps or so.You see most electrical circuits and breakers only allow for about 80% of so of rated capacity all the time or continuous draw. So if you get real close to 30 amps and stay there for some time you can trip the breaker.That is especially true if the voltage is low.When voltage is low, amps go up to make up the difference in power required.(That’s a little techno speak, but breakers trip based on amps. It takes more amps to make the same power when voltage is low.Power is equal to volts times amps.So if one is low, the other has to go up to make the difference in the equation.Power = Amps x Volts)
So, what we do, and you may want to consider especially if you have a microwave and want to run the heat pump, is to run the refrigerator and water heater on gas.Naturally you can switch them back to electric and “manage” the loads to save a bit on LP costs.But I’m just suggesting how what can be done to deal with the 30 amp issue if it does indeed become an issue for you. It really can be depending on what else you have in the rig – especially the infamous – high amp - hair dryer.{Grin}As was suggested, you can’t run everything at that same time – most likely not the air conditioner and the hair dryer.
For reference, remember, 30 amps is not 20 amps less than 50 amp service.It is 70 amps less.That’s because a 50 amp service is two legs, or feeds of 50 amps.That equals 100 amps total power that is split between two 50 amp circuits in the rig.So when on 30 amps, you actually have 70 amps less than the 50 amp service.When you take this into consideration it may help explain why some people decide to run the refrigerator and water heater on LP when connected to 30 amps for an extended period of time acknowledging it does use LP.
If any of this is confusing I apologize.But a little information sometimes makes the problem more manageable.A good power monitor, like the Progressive Industries unit, which provides an amp meter to tell you exactly how many amps you’re drawing instantly for the entire rig, can be invaluable in this situation.It will give a continuous readout of amps and voltage as well as protect the rig from low and high voltage issues.We have found this to be a “must have” for us. But that's just us.
Safe travel and good luck in your new position.
Bill
karen and al said
06:01 PM Oct 28, 2010
Thanks! I pretty much thought we'd be ok. No coffee maker, we hardly use a microwave. Blow dryer not that often. No fireplace. I'm sure we'll be ok, although I just added the power monitor to the list of necessary items, next to the SurgeGuard, which we already know from the small trailer!
More good news, not only do we have confirmation of a job next summer, but we now have a definite sale of our business, the contracts are being drawn up! And we received a message today that we need to call and set up the delivery day of the trailer!! We are certainly on track to kick off our new life at April's Rally !!!
Karen
Bill and Linda said
08:36 AM Oct 29, 2010
karen and al wrote:
. . .although I just added the power monitor to the list of necessary items, next to the SurgeGuard, which we already know from the small trailer!
Hi again Karen:
Just to clarify, the Progressive Industries Power Monitor / Surge-Power Protector is the same as your Surgeguard (at least by basic design) except the Progressive Industries product has additional features.If you already have a Surgeguard, then the Progressive Industries product will duplicate many of the Surgeguard features – meaning you may not want to spend the extra money for a additional device to get the power monitoring – that is the read-outs that give you voltage and amps that can be read in the rig by a little remote display. If you don't have the Surgeguard, I personnally recommend the Progressive Industries product for several "technical" reasons. But that is just my opinion.
As always, these things get a little complicated, but “they are what they are.”I just wanted you to have the information.
Good for you on how this all this will apparently going to work out.
We've landed our first workamping gig for next summer...YAY!! My question for the experienced out there, this being our first 50 amp rig, is that the site is 30 amp. What issues could we foresee having, anything major? We're not big electric users to start, and have one 15K BTU AC in the rig. Thanks!
Karen
btw ... congratulations on getting that first gig!
Paul
Best Regards!
The main thing that works for us is to communicate so we both understand what can be run at any given time.
-- Edited by bjoyce on Wednesday 27th of October 2010 08:00:10 PM
Racerguy makes a good point. Not all 30-amp services are created equally.
I agree that is important to have a "surge protector with voltage protection" for those times when your voltage might go too low during periods of high use on the circuit.
If you have a good 30-amp service where you will be, you shouldn't have any problems. I like Bill's "two high powered appliance rule". Anything that heats or cools uses lots of amps - air conditioner, water heater on electric, blow dryers, toasters, microwaves/convection ovens, electric fireplaces, electric heaters, etc.
If you don't have more than two of those on at any one time, you should be fine. Also, keep in mind that high powered appliance use a surge of amps upon start-up, so even though you may be able to run three or more high powered appliances at the same time on 30 amps, you are more likely to trip a breaker when turning them on.
You should be just fine, but the more you know, the better you can adjust if there is a problem with the service.
I have a large motor home and had the same 30A situation at one of my hosting jobs this summer.
Since the temps were high the AC seemed to want to run continully, which isn't good for it, not to mention that power management became a nuisance. I solved the issue by going to a thrft store and buying a used window air unit. Then I plugged it into a regular 120V outlet on the power pedestal using a heavy duty extension cord. It wasn't pretty, but it was cheap and we kept cool without having to turn things on and off all the time.
With 30A service the main issue is voltage drop. If your site is at the end of the line from the transformer box, that may be significant especially if there are other users before you in that line. When there is a voltage drop then amps increase. When amps increase so does the heat in the wiring which is a safety issue. Low voltage can damage electronic equipment and appliances.
As others have mentioned you might need to do some power management so knowing when the voltage is low helps with that. It's a good idea to buy a plug in voltage meter (Radio Shack or online) so that you can monitor that condition. In addition, by monitoring voltage when you turn on a specific appliance you'll learn which one in your rig is the most power hungry.
I might add a few “trips” that could be of assistance:
First, you would be surprised at how many amps the refrigerator takes. 5 is not uncommon. That may not sound like much, but it all adds up to the 30 amp limit. Other than the air conditioner / heat pump, naturally the biggest electrical offender that can run on gas, like the refrigerator, is the electric water heater. When both the water heater and the refrigerator are drawing max power they add up to well over half of your available amps.
Oh, you may not be aware, but the 30 amp power limit is actually closer to 25 amps or so. You see most electrical circuits and breakers only allow for about 80% of so of rated capacity all the time or continuous draw. So if you get real close to 30 amps and stay there for some time you can trip the breaker. That is especially true if the voltage is low. When voltage is low, amps go up to make up the difference in power required. (That’s a little techno speak, but breakers trip based on amps. It takes more amps to make the same power when voltage is low. Power is equal to volts times amps. So if one is low, the other has to go up to make the difference in the equation. Power = Amps x Volts)
So, what we do, and you may want to consider especially if you have a microwave and want to run the heat pump, is to run the refrigerator and water heater on gas. Naturally you can switch them back to electric and “manage” the loads to save a bit on LP costs. But I’m just suggesting how what can be done to deal with the 30 amp issue if it does indeed become an issue for you. It really can be depending on what else you have in the rig – especially the infamous – high amp - hair dryer. {Grin} As was suggested, you can’t run everything at that same time – most likely not the air conditioner and the hair dryer.
For reference, remember, 30 amps is not 20 amps less than 50 amp service. It is 70 amps less. That’s because a 50 amp service is two legs, or feeds of 50 amps. That equals 100 amps total power that is split between two 50 amp circuits in the rig. So when on 30 amps, you actually have 70 amps less than the 50 amp service. When you take this into consideration it may help explain why some people decide to run the refrigerator and water heater on LP when connected to 30 amps for an extended period of time acknowledging it does use LP.
If any of this is confusing I apologize. But a little information sometimes makes the problem more manageable. A good power monitor, like the Progressive Industries unit, which provides an amp meter to tell you exactly how many amps you’re drawing instantly for the entire rig, can be invaluable in this situation. It will give a continuous readout of amps and voltage as well as protect the rig from low and high voltage issues. We have found this to be a “must have” for us. But that's just us.
Safe travel and good luck in your new position.
Bill
Thanks! I pretty much thought we'd be ok. No coffee maker, we hardly use a microwave. Blow dryer not that often. No fireplace. I'm sure we'll be ok, although I just added the power monitor to the list of necessary items, next to the SurgeGuard, which we already know from the small trailer!
More good news, not only do we have confirmation of a job next summer, but we now have a definite sale of our business, the contracts are being drawn up! And we received a message today that we need to call and set up the delivery day of the trailer!! We are certainly on track to kick off our new life at April's Rally !!!
Karen
Hi again Karen:
Just to clarify, the Progressive Industries Power Monitor / Surge-Power Protector is the same as your Surgeguard (at least by basic design) except the Progressive Industries product has additional features. If you already have a Surgeguard, then the Progressive Industries product will duplicate many of the Surgeguard features – meaning you may not want to spend the extra money for a additional device to get the power monitoring – that is the read-outs that give you voltage and amps that can be read in the rig by a little remote display. If you don't have the Surgeguard, I personnally recommend the Progressive Industries product for several "technical" reasons. But that is just my opinion.
As always, these things get a little complicated, but “they are what they are.” I just wanted you to have the information.
Good for you on how this all this will apparently going to work out.
Safe travels
Bill