After reading your entry today I must say "Adios". I cannot believe that a couple with over 1/4 million in the "bank" would ask for the community to support them. I for one, will not. That's almost like being on welfare.
norsado2 said
07:20 AM Oct 15, 2010
you know time is money, the things that I have learned on this site are well worth a few bucks.they mite have 1/4 mil in the bank so what are they suposed to go broke helping others follow a dream. good luck in your new stick and bricks life style.
john
Mallo said
07:33 AM Oct 15, 2010
For a smart man Howard can occasonally be dumb. I think I see what has you upset Travalinbob. This line here perhaps sums it up;
Howard writes;
"It's one thing to ask for donations for a charitable cause, but it's quite another to ask people to donate money to support a lifestyle."
The problem is when Howard and Linda work camp their Journal gets boring. How many times can they write about the same old same old. The time they have for the community here is also limited. The product here at this web is Howard and Linda's experiences and time.
You object to the idea of donateing to support a lifestyle.
Yet what they're really saying is;
"If you like what we write subscribe, yes it will still be free but if you like the product help fund the production of it."
Maybe this concept is easy for me to grasp because it's long been used in the Software Industry (look up Shareware / Freeware). And a lot of Shareware and websites use this model pay what you think it's worth. My wife considers it the same as paying for quilting magizines.
Howards mistake in my mind is emphasiing their lifestyle over our content our use of their website.
They're merely asking you to pay a fair amount for a service you enjoy their lifestyle shouldn't be a factor in the amount you contribute the only factor is what value do you place in their blog, their forums, their website.
Only you can answer that question.
Mallo
bshart said
07:52 AM Oct 15, 2010
Do we think that the forum, the blog, the campground reviews, the chat room, are provided at no cost to Howard and Linda? I am sure there is a cost. Why shouldn't we pay for the services provided if we find them useful. If you don't use any of the services, then don't chip in.
Luvglass said
08:25 AM Oct 15, 2010
An awful lot of time and work has gone into creating and keeping this group working so smoothly, and I don't think there's anything wrong with them requesting some sort of remuneration.
Whether it's in the form of a subscription or donations is immaterial, and how much they have in savings is none of your business. There are very few people who would be as open and honest as they are.
Many people have picked up invaluable insight and guidance while going through a major life changing transition - and if that's not worth something, I don't know what is.
Good luck, and good bye,
Ckerr said
09:11 AM Oct 15, 2010
I only have one question: Where's the contribution button???
I completely support Howard and Linda with their "pay what you think it's worth" approach. If you don't think it's worth anything, don't contribute. If you do, contribute what you think it's worth as you are able to. Feels completely in keeping with the tone of this site to me.
I found Howard and Linda when doing a google search on our way back from an annual rv trip this past summer. I just went back and looked and my first post was on July 21, 2010. There is no way we could afford to contribute an amount that adequately covers what we have learned in less than 90 days -- much less the entertainment value!
First and most important, thanks to Howard and Linda's openness with both their thought process and their financials we learned that what we thought was an impossible dream was actually very doable for us. We've wanted to go fulltime for a while, but thought we needed this magic number in the bank to make it possible. By sitting down with H & L's budget and creating our own, we learned we could not only hit the road as soon as we could get our stuff cleared out, but that we would likely be better off financially than we currently are!
From the other folks on the Forum and in Chat I learned about the 3G Store and how to increase our cellphone/aircard receptions so I can type this as we sit in Arkansas!
I also learned about CradlePoint routers so I can get rid of our cable internet service while we still have the S&B and move it to the RV the beginning of the year.
I've also learned about workkamping and volunteer opportunities from people I've come to trust. There's a long list of other things we've learned, but these are just a few hightlights that come to mind.
And perhaps most important, we've gotten tons of support for what more mainsteam folks would say is a crazy idea. And we've made many online friends who we look forward to meeting in real life!
Thank you H & L for creating and maintaining such a helpful, informative and supportive environment.
One other thing -- 1/4 of a million in the bank is a pitance if you expect to live on it. My dad left almost exactly that amount in the bank when he died 8 years ago. My mom has a retirement income and no mortgage. That money is still nearly gone today. She doesn't travel or have outrageous spending habits, but between emergency expenses and the recession let's just say the 1/4 mill is no more... Whether H & L have funds in the bank is irrelevant to this discussion.
Now where's the darn button???
-- Edited by Ckerr on Friday 15th of October 2010 09:36:48 AM
-- Edited by Ckerr on Friday 15th of October 2010 09:37:28 AM
bzffr8 said
09:12 AM Oct 15, 2010
There is no way we would have gone full time without Howard and Linda's insight and openess about this type of lifestyle. What does having a large amount in your savings have to do with anything. They started down this path wanting to protect what they have accomplished and saved in their previous working life to have when they get older. If they had a defined pension or SS income coming in every month to support their lifestyle would you still expect them to provide all that they have for free? You can not run this type of website from a free webhosting service.
Frankly, I am supprised they have gone this long without having a membership driven website. I have gained more information and confidence to be able to make the decision to go fulltime because of RV-Dreams compared to the information from Escapees, Good Sam or any other "Club" that I pay up to $80.00 a year to belong to.
RV-Dreams is the reason we made the decision to retire at 50 and make the jump. Howard and Linda give RV-Dreams their personal attention and answer everyones questions. Try getting a personal consultant for $25.00 a year.
53 Merc said
10:49 AM Oct 15, 2010
Well, I for one, am ambivalent on this issue. I do not dispute the fact I have learned from this forum, but, I also think I have contributed to the overall wealth of knowledge to be found here. Some things I have posted have been on the order of "do not do it like I did, it was bad". Some have been based on my background of a lot of years doing this. So, it begs the question, should I expect pay for responding to a query?
Howard, on the other hand, does provide the forum, does give valuable insight and a tremendous amount of research on several issues. He does pay for the website, pays for the chat room, etc. So, is it value received? We all have to make the decision best for us.
We support our travel by working or volunteering. It is our choice to travel, our choice to volunteer and work for pay, others will have to make a choice to travel or not, work or not, volunteer or not.
Tim & Robyn said
11:29 AM Oct 15, 2010
Luvglass wrote:
An awful lot of time and work has gone into creating and keeping this group working so smoothly, and I don't think there's anything wrong with them requesting some sort of remuneration.
Whether it's in the form of a subscription or donations is immaterial, and how much they have in savings is none of your business. There are very few people who would be as open and honest as they are.
Many people have picked up invaluable insight and guidance while going through a major life changing transition - and if that's not worth something, I don't know what is.
I agree wholeheartedly with Fred.
I have never met Howard and Linda, but let me tell you something about what I do know. There are other threads on this forum regarding the odeal that my wife went through before she finally passed away a year ago... being hosptitalized 250 miles from here for a year after suffering serious burns in an accident. As a result of all that, combined with my own health issues that have surfaced since then, our (my) RV dreams are permanently dead.
During that period of time I received a couple unsolicited phone calls and emails from Howard. Given that this was almost two years ago now, there could not have been any ulterior motives (for those of you given to conspiracy theories).
They have opened themselves up completely to all the readers of this website (and the IRS), for only one reason that I can see... to encourage people to follow their dreams instead of walking in lock-step as drones to their societal masters.
For a lot of us, this will not be possible because we have bought into the consumerist/advertising bandwagon, and so we're in debt up to our ears; for others it just may not be inside our comfort envelope.
In any event, Howard and Linda, if you ever decide to stay at FDR State Park in GA again, perhaps on your way to Jacksonville, give me a call... I'd love to treat you to dinner - there are actually supposed to be some pretty good restaurants in the dinky nearby towm of Pine Mountain.... probably because of its proximity to Callaway Gardens.
ersanta said
11:34 AM Oct 15, 2010
Mallo wrote:
Howard writes;
"It's one thing to ask for donations for a charitable cause, but it's quite another to ask people to donate money to support a lifestyle."
I agree the use "of supporting a lifestyle" would have better said if phrased... to support the efforts of Howard and Linda to bring a more interesting perspective of the RV Lifestyle to the followers of the RV Dream website.
If Howard was providing daily golf tips to the RV Dream followers, including golf techniques and picturesque photos of golf courses, as a golfer, that would be enjoyable. Do I feel a donations "chip-in" would be appropriate to pay his green fees. Probably not.
But, the RV Dream lifestyle information that is brought to you by Howard and Linda, on a daily basis, is why RVers come to this website. This blog is full of useable information for those that are dreaming or for those that are living the lifestyle. The RV Dream blog and morning cup of coffee go together like a beautiful campground, with a senior discount. If Howard stopped writing the daily blog, regardless of content, would I be disappointed. Yes!
Many of us pay for online magazine subscriptions and yes you can read the abbreviated news articles without paying, but if you want to read the in depth articles of the same newspaper or magazine, you have to pay a subscription. I feel a fee "chip-in" is appropriate for what they provide. I know the days that we open the Journal and there is no new article, its a little disappointing. If I pay subscriptions for newspapers and magazine articles, why would I not pay for my enjoyment of reading the RV Lifestyle of Howard and Linda.
I look at it, not as a donation "chip-in", but a subscriptions to information that I find interesting, and if you have questions, this subscriber will probably receive a response from the article creator, publisher and editor named Howard.
I have seen websites that have a "Members Only" section, maybe you could have a sections that provides members only specials, for those who "chip-in".
Nelson, Garden Grove, CA
Tim & Robyn said
11:55 AM Oct 15, 2010
ersanta wrote:
Mallo wrote:
If Howard was providing daily golf tips to the RV Dream followers, including golf techniques and picturesque photos of golf courses, as a golfer, that would be enjoyable. Do I feel a donations "chip-in" would be appropriate to pay his green fees. Probably not.
One thing that I think is being overlooked is that, if you will recall, one of the reasons they took this workcamping job was because the golf was included FREE.... no greens fees...
I should be so lucky....
Cdreamn said
12:04 PM Oct 15, 2010
“It depends!”
I would start my statement by quoting an attorney I once met.When asked a question, he preceded the answer with “It depends”.
So,”it depends”, if you went out to dinner, a movie, bought a book, or even renewed your subscription to trail life; how much would you spend?
It depends, what you are willing to pay for entertainment, knowledge or just information. It’s up to you. Yes, there are many websites and journals on the web that are free but, do they have the class and entertainment value that Howard puts out every day. The RV-Dreams website is presented at a professional level that an individual like myself appreciate. When you’re looking for quality, it depends.Knowledge, information, and entertainment value comes at a cost and it depends what value you give this website!
So check your depends and ask yourself, what is the value that I receive from the content of is this website? Is it knowledge, information, or entertainment? It depends if you want to continue the quality of content presented or not!Howard and Linda have made window of opportunity for their readers and have put information out that is useful, entertaining and educational.If you enjoy what they do, support their endeavors. And I will keep buying lottery tickets, because I enjoy it! I will continue to support and enjoy the website too!
azrving said
12:40 PM Oct 15, 2010
Travelinbob wrote: After reading your entry today I must say "Adios". I cannot believe that a couple with over 1/4 million in the "bank" would ask for the community to support them. I for one, will not. That's almost like being on welfare.
Luvglass wrote:
An awful lot of time and work has gone into creating and keeping this group working so smoothly, and I don't think there's anything wrong with them requesting some sort of remuneration.
Whether it's in the form of a subscription or donations is immaterial, and how much they have in savings is none of your business. There are very few people who would be as open and honest as they are.
Many people have picked up invaluable insight and guidance while going through a major life changing transition - and if that's not worth something, I don't know what is.
Good luck, and good bye,
I was one of the people that didn't respond positively to the idea of a "RV Dreams Club." I am a member of AAA, KOA, Good Sam's, etc. and with these memberships I save a ton of money when we travel and with my AAA membership I save money on theater tickets, special events, and the list goes on and on. My AAA membership cost $39.00 per year and it more than pays for itself every year. My Good Sam's membership is only $19.95 per year and I get the Highway's Magazine and discounts on camping and camping supplies not to mention the RV Net which is part of Good Sam's too. I just didn't see the value/savings with the RV Dreams membership; maybe down the road they would have had more perks to offer their members.
I can understand why Travelinbob feels the way he does. I can't even afford to hit the road fulltime and now Howard and Linda (have been enjoying this lifestyle for several years now) are asking us to contribute money so they can continue to enjoy this lifestyle without the need for workamping or dipping into their savings.
I also totally agree with Fred (Luvglass), it is a lot of work to keep this website running and equally difficult to keep existing members interested while trying to grow the membership too. I have to admit, I stop reading Howard's Journal when they are stuck in one spot for an extended period. I am not interested in GOLF! LOL
I am a member of (10-15) RV/Motorcycle websites and blogs and RV Dreams has to be my favorite rv site to visit (BTW: my favorite blog is the "Wandering Wishnies" ), the people seem to get along with one another and I feel a real connection to the members here. Howard and Linda have done a great thing and because of this website, I will be better prepared to live My RV Dream one day. I will "Chip-In" to prevent this site from ending! My KOA (which I have never used) membership is up for renewal but I will use that money to help Howard and Linda stay on the road. Sorry about that KOA!
Howard, I will chip-in but not until I'm certain you are going to keep the site up and running. I read your journal today and I sense a little hostility and you even hinted that the site could be closed down. Your members need some reassurance before putting their $$ on the line. JMHO
-- Edited by azrving on Friday 15th of October 2010 12:54:53 PM
TxYellowRose said
01:44 PM Oct 15, 2010
Like others, I have very conflicting emotions regarding this subject and I am even hesitant to comment. We'll see if I actually post this!
To be honest, I don't read Howard and Linda's journal. I only participate in the forum, so I didn't even know about this issue until reading the original message above.
The amount of knowledge, support, encouragement and downright friendliness I have gleaned from these forums is priceless and continues to be so. You folks, along with Howard and Linda's example, breathed life into a dream that had been put on hold but is now a reality. I feel in a way that the folks here are extended family. And I've never even corresponded with Howard or Linda. I like to think that I have contributed back in small ways on the forums.
I do believe Howard's wording of the request could have been phrased differently so as not to imply supporting their lifestyle just because they do not want to workamp, etc. Photos of wonderful tours, golfing (whether fees included in workamping hours or not), recalls of sumptuous meals at nice restaurants, etc. do not encourage one to donate to support someone else's comfortable lifestyle.
One's knee-jerk reaction is, "Gee, get a job like the rest of us."
I would love to contribute, understanding the the behind-the-scenes work, time and energy involved to keep a site like this up and running and the philosophy and intent behind it. Really, I do.
As many of you know, we began our journey a little over three months ago with much less in monetary resources than others. It was our choice. We must work, whether it be in a campground or other industry such as we are currently doing or whether we were not living in an RV; however, we are able to enjoy the freedom of choice where we do so and enjoy the lifestyle of living in an RV.
Again, while I would love to contribute - and Howard/Linda if there is some other way I could do so other than monetarily, let me know - I cannot at this time.
What it boils down to is looking out for #1, and #2 and #3 - which are me, Dave and Maggie. We live a simple, low-key life - heck, we don't do the typical sightseeing things that require admission fees, we rarely dine out, etc. I just received a AmEx gift card for my birthday, so I think I'll treat myself to a professional hair trim at Wal-Mart!! Have not had a professional cut since early July, which is unheard of for me!
That's okay, though. We are content just to be "free," on the road, rid of much stress, feeling the best physically than in quite a while, and treasuring so much quality time spent together.
My dream since 2002 has become a reality.
We knew going into this we would have to drastically curtail our discretionary spending and find paying work. We took a hard look at our finances and our desires and, well, we must work in order to live this lifestyle - or any lifestyle, actually. Sure, we'd love to just "hang out" and travel criss-cross/zig-zag all over the US, but that would be financially suicidal, bluntly put.
It is our choice. Whether one chooses to workamp or not, play golf or not, cycle or not . . . it is about choices. It always is, about everything in our lives.
If Howard and Linda choose to not workamp and solicit contributions for RV-Dreams or shut down the site, that is their choice. Contribute or not, that's your choice.
My choice is being realistic about our finances and discretionary spending yet at the same time offering my assistance to Howard and Linda in non-monetary ways.
Warm regards to all, Betty
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Friday 15th of October 2010 01:46:18 PM
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Friday 15th of October 2010 05:13:00 PM
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Friday 15th of October 2010 05:15:54 PM
budhi said
02:39 PM Oct 15, 2010
I so agree with most comments on this thread but I am in the same boat as TxYellowRose, and I too would be willing to help behind the scenes anyway I can, but unable to to contribute monotarly, although I again don't see anything wrong with a speceial section and offers made to those contributors as another blogger mentioned too. Howard, if you need or are willing to take our assistance you can reach me directly at budhi@windstream.net.
Now we haven't even been able to jump into our full timing yet because of working on paying out all our debt, which isn't bad, we owe lest than $125,000 including our mortgage, but we can not see buying our retirement dream while we have any debt, because we don't have an income other than our standard jobs, and I am all but laid off with only working six to eight days a month. Hubby working way to many hours to keep us afloat. We are keeping our dreams alive with the decluttering and downsizing and paying out our debts at this time of our lives and pray that the Lord will allow us to follow this dream.
Now with that said, I hope Howard and Linda are able to keep the site open because I am one of the newbees that has learned a lot although with some envy since our finances don't allow us to live the level of meeting our dreams at this time.
TxYellowRose wrote:
Like others, I have very conflicting emotions regarding this subject and I am even hesitant to comment. We'll see if I actually post this!
To be honest, I don't read Howard and Linda's journal. I only participate in the forum, so I didn't even know about this issue until reading the original message above.
The amount of knowledge, support, encouragement and downright friendliness I have gleaned from these forums is priceless and continues to be so. You folks, along with Howard and Linda's example, breathed life into a dream that had been put on hold but is now a reality. I feel in a way that the folks here are extended family. And I've never even corresponded with Howard or Linda. I like to think that I have contributed back in small ways on the forums.
I do believe Howard's wording of the request could have been phrased differently so as not to imply supporting their lifestyle just because they do not want to workamp, etc. Photos of wonderful tours, golfing (whether fees included in workamping hours or not), recalls of sumptuous meals at nice restaurants, etc. do not encourage one to donate to support someone else's comfortable lifestyle.
One's knee-jerk reaction is, "Gee, get a job like the rest of us."
I would love to contribute, understanding the the behind-the-scenes work, time and energy involved to keep a site like this up and running and the philosophy and intent behind it. Really, I do.
As many of you know, we began our journey a little over three months ago with much less in monetary resources than others. It was our choice. We must work, whether it be in a campground or other industry such as we are currently doing or whether we were not living in an RV; however, we are able to enjoy the freedom of choice where we do so and enjoy the lifestyle of living in an RV.
Again, while I would love to contribute - and Howard/Linda if there is some other way I could do so other than monetarily, let me know - I cannot at this time.
What it boils down to is looking out for #1, and #2 and #3 - which are me, Dave and Maggie. We live a simple, low-key life - heck, we don't do the typical sightseeing things that require admission fees, we rarely dine out, etc. I just received a AmEx gift card for my birthday, so I think I'll treat myself to a professional hair trim at Wal-Mart!! Have not had a professional cut since early July, which is unheard of for me!
That's okay, though. We are content just to be "free," on the road, rid of much stress, feeling the best physically than in quite a while, and treasuring so much quality time spent together.
My dream since 2002 has become a reality.
We knew going into this we would have to drastically curtail our discretionary spending and find paying work. We took a hard look at our finances and our desires and, well, we must work in order to life this lifestyle - or any lifestyle, actually. Sure, we'd love to just "hang out" and travel criss-cross/zig-zag all over the US, but that would be financially suicidal, bluntly put.
It is our choice. Whether one chooses to workamp or not, play golf or not, cycle or not . . . it is about choices. It always is, about everything in our lives.
If Howard and Linda choose to not workamp and solicit contributions for RV-Dreams or shut down the site, that is their choice. Contribute or not, that's your choice.
My choice is being realistic about our finances and discretionary spending yet at the same time offering my assistance to Howard and Linda in non-monetary ways.
Warm regards to all, Betty
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Friday 15th of October 2010 01:46:18 PM
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Friday 15th of October 2010 02:01:27 PM
Racerguy said
03:46 PM Oct 15, 2010
What Fred said. I find value in it,if you don't see ya.
Steak Eater said
05:31 PM Oct 15, 2010
From Howard's Journal Entry: But just as much as we don't want to feel the pressure of running a club, I still don't want to spend three, four, or five months workamping anymore. And we certainly prefer not to take on "real" jobs unless it is absolutely necessary.
Sorry, but I lost a lot of respect after reading the above. Maybe I am misreading it but it sounds to me like laziness, and comes across as somewhat offensive. I mean, nobody WANTS to do those things, but you seem to be bright enough to have known it might be necessary when you first embarked on this RV endeavor with limited savings and income. I would have too much pride to have asked for donations,"chipping in", charity, whatever you want to call it, while I was still young enough and healthy enough to provide for myself. If your thinking is that the donations are for value received via the forum and website you provide, I think you will find over the next few months you are incorrect.
From the Journal Comments (J.C. Webber III): Another struggle I have is with the idea of promoting or encouraging people to quit working early, without an adequate retirement portfolio and then asking others to 'help out'. How much better off would you be now if you had just waited another 5 years before you quit earning the kind of money that could build a more comfortable retirement nest egg?
That about sums it up for me.
There are a lot of decent people that frequent this board. To those that have answered questions and provided help to me, I offer my sincerest thanks.
Luvglass said: Good luck, and good bye, Racerguy said: What Fred said. I find value in it,if you don't see ya. No need to point me towards the door, I know the way.
-- Edited by Steak Eater on Friday 15th of October 2010 05:46:10 PM
bjoyce said
06:05 PM Oct 15, 2010
When my father was working at the bank one of his customers felt bad because "she didn't have a real job". This was a person who spent many hours a week analyzing stocks and bonds who made her money investing. My father asked her how many hours a week she spent investing and she said, "20 to 40 hours". He told the woman that she had a job and a quite successful one at that. Howard and Linda have jobs too, keeping up RV-Dreams.
Readytogo said
06:11 PM Oct 15, 2010
I also agree with Luvglass. The time that H & L put into this website, forum, chat room is invaluable. They have been the most honest about their finances. They have laid out all of their expenses. I have no problem with them asking for a donation. The time to keep this website up is like a job. If you do not want to give so be it. Why put them down for having a 1/4 of a million in the bank?
Roz said
06:44 PM Oct 15, 2010
It is a fact, even among siblings, that money and opinions about money bring out true personality traits. This one thread has generated more derogatory, personal comments than have ever appeared on the friendlist forum around.
Howard and Linda deserve better. They have unselfishly provided a journal, a forum, a chat room and created a virtual family. If you are among those who disagree with this concept, you do not have to "chip in", so please don't feel like you must denigrate our "hosts".
At the age of four, I learned a valuable lesson from the book Bambi. The mother of Thumper the rabbit said it best, "If you can't say something nice about somebody, don't say nothing at all."
-- Edited by Roz on Friday 15th of October 2010 06:50:41 PM
WRS said
06:50 PM Oct 15, 2010
I guess I just don't understand why there are those that are upset with Howard and Linda. He plainly states that he would rather work with RV-Dreamers on the site and keep it afloat than do workcamping. He knows if they do both they will be right back where they were five years ago working full time plus. Also they know they can do more with the site while travelling rather than workcamping. That is what their site is about............ RV-Dreamers and travelling, not workcamping.
They have not said to one person if you don't pay you will be cut off from this site. In fact the idea is that those who think it is a value can come on the site as they do now.......... and those that don't can come also. They want the site to be what they orginally designed it to be...... Free to all and a value to everyone. However it takes money so why not allow those of us who do want to contribute and want to keep this site open and free be allowed to do so without treating Howard and Linda as if they are asking for a handout.
They know there are those who for many reasons can not and will not pay. Howard said as much when he first approached us with this idea. As a matter of fact he also said he would be one that might question it if someone else tried this. After reading every word written for the past five years I don't believe Howard or Linda would ever treat a non contributor any different than the one who contributes the most. If you believe they are those kind of people then you haven't been her long enough.
So please those who don't think it is the right thing to do then hang around continue to do just as you have done no matter what decision you make about the money. Some of you put some very vauable info out there and I for one would hate to see any one leave. However please allow those of us who believe it is worth what they are asking to contribute without having to hear how your opinions of them have changed. They are the same couple that started this from scratch and grown it into a job by caring for and about others. I still believe that is their goal...... and yes to be able to do it full timing and enjoying life with those they are helping.
Bottom line if the site stays open I see hundreds if not thousands of new people finding the site......... If it closes no one will get the help and information that we have gotten not just from them but from each other. That is the real value I see in contributing what little they have set as a guideline. I for one intend on supporting them and I hope enough do so we can keep this RV-Dream open to everyone....... Those that can and those that can't contribute for whatever the reason.
Sorry for rambling...... Billy
Mike and Terri said
07:17 PM Oct 15, 2010
Unfortunately, money is a necesary evil in this society. Howard and Linda have put in a lot of time, money, and blood, sweat, and tears. They share with us, the RV public, many things that most of us refuse to share; personal/business income and expenses and many RV and life experiences. THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS, but they do it because they want to help others realize that they can achieve the RV dream of fulltiming. Thanks to Google, I discovered RV-Dreams.com. Luckily I clicked on that link on 9/29/2009. That day I realized new hope for a fun and exciting future. Thankfully H&L started up the site and kept it going. But, what if they hadn't kept it going, or even started it in the first place, would I have been blessed with another Google suggestion? Likely, but not with the content, honesty, and guidance that RV-Dreams.com has provided. We probably would not be well on our way to realizing this dream, not to mention meeting such wonderful people like Howard and Linda, Jim and Linda, Bob and Jacki, Paul and Marti, Jim and Dee, John and Ginny, Gene and Virginia, and so many more. Yes, H&L need money to keep going forward with RV-Dreams.com. Many have expressed how they are so glad when H&L get back on the road after a workampng stint. That is the whole point, H&L will be so much more productive if they can continue traveling. RV-Dreams.com needs to stay on line. If you don't want to chip in, then don't. Stay with us though, this is a great place with great info and great people! --mike
Terry and Jo said
08:00 PM Oct 15, 2010
Someone else in the posting touched upon the idea that many of us that frequent the website, and especially the forums, ALSO contribute to the value of RV Dreams. In one sense, that is almost as valuable as the journals and financial considerations that Howard and Linda freely admit to everyone.
In a sense, Howard and Linda have created more than just a website and blog. They have helped to create a family of like-minded folks who also have RV dreams. Do you want a value? Is there any other forum that is more friendly? Is there any other website where people are truly helpful to each other? Some other forums, while also heavy on the help and advise, also tend to be like a clique. Those I spend very little time on because I would rather be here, trying to help with what little knowledge and encouragement that I have.
Truthfully, Jo and I can't afford to contribute right now. (If anyone wants to buy a home in the Oklahoma City area, I can.) So, we will continue to try to help the "family" as best we can while we continue to work to be able to fund our own dream with whatever pension and Social Security we get upon retirement. Without RV Dreams examples (yes that includes participant other than Howard and Linda), Jo and I would have no hopes of following our dream.
It is my sincere hope that Howard and Linda's decision not be a stumbling block to the rest of us being a part of this RV Dreams family. May God bless all involved with such an adventure.
Terry
janieD said
08:26 PM Oct 15, 2010
The written word is so difficult. When you are not face to face with the person sometimes words come off differently than intended, in fact each of us may interpret them differently from one another. Often in Howard's journal you can almost sense that he is talking it through with himself and the rest of us. Unlike us he is willing to put it out there even when he knows criticism is sure to find it's way back to him. I think that is quite brave. For those of you offended by his posts I truly believe if you had a face to face conversation with him you might feel differently.
As far as the value of this forum and the rest of the RV dreams site, that will be different to each one of us so if and when you donate, do it according to the value you put on it. Also the hours of work and the money it takes to produce a site like this are very real. To me (and just to me) saying that there is no value in what they do is just plain silly. I really am not worried about those who choose to leave this forum as they must do what they feel they must but for us this continues to be our go to place for information and encouragement. We just started our travels about 2 months ago and without this site we would not have dreamed this for ourselves and we will be forever grateful for this site and for Howard and Linda. I just wish we could donate more.
Melstar said
08:50 PM Oct 15, 2010
Thank you to Terry and those before who have shared positive thoughts. You all have been a big support to me and continue to help with questions we have. I feel like I know many of you personally and have never met you. That's value. I would not have been able to create such a thing as this website along with all of the links, forum, etc. A person's time and expertise is always worth something....if not in monetary ways...then with a big thank you and appreciation.
Waggin Tails said
09:13 PM Oct 15, 2010
Howard and Linda have been most honest and open about their lives. I've purchased several books on the RV lifestyle - none have been as valuable and up to date as what RV-Dreams has and is producing. I see the website and forum as a living book. To keep it alive, it takes a lot of work. I will be supporting this effort because to me the information is worth more than what has been suggested.
I agree with Fred, Racerguy , Bjoyce, Terry/Jo and many other submitting positive comments. Howard and Linda could easily have bumped the negative comments but they have not because they are the real deal. I look foward to enjoying a campfire with all of you as we march on toward our goal of going live in 2012.
Thank you Howard and Linda for what you have here and for the inspiration you provide to many RVers.
TXRVr said
09:20 PM Oct 15, 2010
There is absolutely no way to transmit one’s true feelings without the spoken word combined with body language. So be tolerant, as you would want someone to do for you when attempting to put your feelings on paper.
If you have never been a volunteer Webmaster, as I current do for a couple of non-profit groups, you have absolutely no concept of the time spent performing the duties and would wonder why one would do it without pay. Your lack of education on website design, maintenance, and associated time spent is meaningless when it applies to any opinion on fair compensation.
I know that there are many who want something for nothing, but how many think that their time is worth nothing? Even the Lord got a free meal once in awhile. Hello!!!
Everyone has been given a choice to contribute or not. How much fairer can that be? Do you think that Wal-Mart would let you “contribute” when it comes to buying a new wide screen TV?
After I closed this thread, TXRVer sent me a private message wishing to apologize for a couple statements he made. I have, at his request, made the edits. Howard
-- Edited by TXRVr on Friday 15th of October 2010 09:22:18 PM
-- Edited by Howard on Saturday 16th of October 2010 06:43:29 PM
azrving said
09:45 PM Oct 15, 2010
This whole chip-in idea seems to be turning the members against one another, exactly what I hate about other rv websites. All of the fighting and mean spirited comments about another person's views and opinions.
With an apology submitted and an edit done in a prior post, I also made the appropriate edit here referring to the statements that are now deleted. Again, I deeply apologize about this whole thing. But at least these wonderful members are trying to make things right between themselves. Howard
-- Edited by Howard on Saturday 16th of October 2010 06:47:56 PM
tumwatergal said
10:29 PM Oct 15, 2010
Sure are a lot of interesting comments here. I think leaving full time jobs (prior to the usual retirement age) and planning to rely on savings alone is risky. However, we have done the same thing. It is risky. Although we are older than Howard and Linda at this time, when we chose to quit work and rely on savings we were younger than they are. At this time, with the current recession to live with, things are tight. We have had to make budget cut backs. No matter if you live F/T in an RV or live in S-n-B home you are always faced with making choices where money is concerned.
Again, all of this requires aligning your priorities. What is important to one is not important to another. I've checked over Howard's journal and various links to their budget and so forth. Well dang! They don't want to get "real full time jobs" but they want to maintain 2 vehicles plus the 5er, play golf, have an entertainment budget of $200 per month and so on. And he's planning to buy a brand new video camera. I assume Howard is planning to list the new camera as a business expense, thus justifying the outlay of more cash. More power to them if they can get folks to "chip in" to pay for their website. It's a good plan.
In our own case (which is all I can attest to) we trimmed all entertainment out of our budget. We have one cell phone, one computer and one vehicle besides the MH. Due to the fact that we had an expensive 2009, we have planned to stay put for a few months at a time and use our membership CG's where possible to save cash. We are using 2010 and 2011 to conserve some funds. It is what is going to work for us. I don't expect other people to subsidize us because we chose to bail out of jobs early in life. We'll have to figure it out on our own.
Good for Howard and Linda if they can pull this off. If folks want to help out and "chip in" then they should do that. If others, like me, do not want to pay the way to living their RV-Dream then they should do that. It boils down to making choices in everything we do.
That's my 2 cents worth. It's too bad some folks are getting hot under the collar about this situation. It seems pretty straight forward to me...either do it or don't.
Ckerr said
10:49 PM Oct 15, 2010
Okay, as a NASCAR fan AND Golfer, please play nice!
The best thing about this site is that people are considerate and helpful. Please don't let a difference of opinion on one topic change that.
No one is saying anyone needs to do anything they don't believe in, feel right about, or are financially able to do.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions -- whether it mirrors my own or not. But don't let a difference of opinion mess up one of the few civil places on the web.
For what it's worth, what H & L have done is no different than the guy who weeded my front flower beds a few years ago. When I asked him what it would cost, he said it was up to me what it was worth. He did a great job and I paid him what I felt was fair. H & L provide a product/service that has some degree of value to each of us. They've simply left it to us to determine what that is rather than them setting the amount. If it's $0 that's okay. If it's something more than that, that's cool too.
Pinon said
11:27 PM Oct 15, 2010
I'm sad to hear how angry people are. I don't run a website like this because I am not willing to do the work, and I am grateful that other people are. I value my time, and unless you are a friend, or a cause I believe in, I expect to be compensated for my work. Why should it bother us that Howard would like some return on his enormous investment of time? And people really think $250,000 in the bank is some rich amount of money? Seriously? Pinon
ersanta said
12:53 AM Oct 16, 2010
We have seen so many opinions aired in such a short time on this Forum, which by the way, is provided by the Host of RV-Dream site.
Howard and Linda should not be required to defended their decision to ask for monetary contributions nor have they censored anyone, by removing any post. All these years they have provided this forum for everyone to freely use without requiring anything more than everyones enjoyment of being part of the RV-Dream Community.
What they have asked, is to chip in if you wanted to support their lifestyle of maintaining interesting information for those who enjoy the RV-Dream Community. They did not delete anyone's right from using this site, even to those who did not wish to pay.
Everyone was given a choice.... continue as before or chip-in. There was no reason be be angry at the host for asking. No one was blackmailed to pay, ie, if you don't contribute we will shut the website down. Everyone has to choose what is best for them.
I cannot understand why anyone would want to say adios just because the Host asked for followers to chip-in if they wish to support their agenda of providing interesting RV information via the RV-Dream website.
The RV-Dream Community followers were given a choice... now is the time to get back to being RV-Dream family and enjoying this website, much like we have for the 5 plus years.
MargieAnne said
03:14 AM Oct 16, 2010
I was surprised to be able to join in such a valuable group for free. I must admit that if there had been a fixed fee I would not have followed through and registered.
We are all on different budgets but surely there has to be room for someone to make a buck using their IT skills to bring together this amazing group of dreamers, allowing us to share in a wealth of experience.
Howard seems like a nice man who is slightly embarrassed about this whole thing. Lots of us make money out of our 'hobbies.' Many Bloggers with extras on their sites have a donation button so those who wish can help support.
Seems to me that too many of us want something for nothing.... a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.
I don't really care what Howard and Linda's bank balance or lifestyle is. They give a lot out so why not contribute. Many people use on-line set ups to provide income so what's the difference here.
I hope this doesn't tear the fabric of RV Dreamers apart. That would be extremely sad.
I'm no expert at surfing the web but in my feeble efforts I haven't found a better place to understand the RV lifestyle. I hope Howard will look beyond the negatives and see a way through.
All the best.
Jim01 said
06:36 AM Oct 16, 2010
Come on Guys. Lets let this thing go.
If you want to contribute, go ahead and contribute, but if you don't want to, don't!
This forum has always been know as the friendliest forum on the Internet, and I for one would like it to stay that way.
This thread is not doing anyone any good, and is just turning the forum down the wrong path.
Let it go!!! Do what you want, but quit putting each other or Howard and Linda down!
This family is above that.
Jim
rjenkins said
06:59 AM Oct 16, 2010
I agree with Jim01, this forum is too friendly to attack anyone when they have made it 'voluntary'! So lets change the subject to a happier theme, who wants to talk about politics or religion
Racerguy said
07:03 AM Oct 16, 2010
Jim01 wrote:
Come on Guys. Lets let this thing go.
If you want to contribute, go ahead and contribute, but if you don't want to, don't!
This forum has always been know as the friendliest forum on the Internet, and I for one would like it to stay that way.
This thread is not doing anyone any good, and is just turning the forum down the wrong path.
Let it go!!! Do what you want, but quit putting each other or Howard and Linda down!
This family is above that.
Jim
AMEN. The above is worth repeating.Thank You Jim.
-- Edited by Racerguy on Saturday 16th of October 2010 07:04:56 AM
Howard said
07:43 AM Oct 16, 2010
Bob, we are sorry we have offended you and that you feel the need to leave. We enjoyed meeting you and Judy at the KOA in New Mexico a few years back. I'll simply say good luck to you both.
As for the rest of the comments, thanks to everyone for your kind words, your not-so-kind words, and your opinions. But we certainly don't want to let this thing get overly heated and I am disappointed in some of the comments that are aimed at others or perhaps not as diplomatic as we would like.
As "MargieAnne" said
"I hope this doesn't tear the fabric of RV Dreamers apart. That would be extremely sad."
And that was one of our biggest fears in going forward with our idea. We were certainly concerned how this would play out, but we ultimately believed we would be better able to keep the spirit of the RV-Dreamers and improve the cohesiveness by spending more time on the websites. So, it's time to get to that.
But before I go, I'll just make a few more comments related to the posts here.
I think some of you are absolutely right in that I wasn't very smart in the way I phrased things. I don't know if better statement of the issue would have changed things or not, but it certainly couldn't have hurt.
And "azrving", I understand your concerns that we might shut the websites down based on my statements in the one Journal entry. But all of this is actually our commitment to keep everything going. We certainly weighed the pros and cons of shutting everything down and disappearing (which many wish we would do ). However, as many have noted, there is something special about this group of people and we decided to fight through the negatives for what we believe in our hearts. One interesting thing that has happened is that other folks that put a lot of time and effort into "free" websites have contacted us. It seems that many have wanted to ask for monetary support but have been afraid to do that. Well, we certainly know why and now they are thankful we are taking the hits. But don't be surprised if more websites start a "pay what you think it is worth" approach.
Finally, I'm sorry that I have caused one of the most antagonistic threads ever in this forum. We certainly don't want to see that and it's time to let this one go as "Jim01" stated.
So, I'll be closing this thread as I don't think keeping it open any longer is beneficial to the overall good for everyone. If someone wants to open an entirely new thread regarding any of this I can't prevent that, but if it happens, let's keep it and our opinions, even if we disagree, respectful.
I cannot believe that a couple with over 1/4 million
in the "bank" would ask for the community to support
them. I for one, will not. That's almost like being on
welfare.
john
Howard writes;
"It's one thing to ask for donations for a charitable cause, but it's quite another to ask people to donate money to support a lifestyle."
The problem is when Howard and Linda work camp their Journal gets boring. How many times can they write about the same old same old. The time they have for the community here is also limited. The product here at this web is Howard and Linda's experiences and time.
You object to the idea of donateing to support a lifestyle.
Yet what they're really saying is;
"If you like what we write subscribe, yes it will still be free but if you like the product help fund the production of it."
Maybe this concept is easy for me to grasp because it's long been used in the Software Industry (look up Shareware / Freeware). And a lot of Shareware and websites use this model pay what you think it's worth. My wife considers it the same as paying for quilting magizines.
Howards mistake in my mind is emphasiing their lifestyle over our content our use of their website.
They're merely asking you to pay a fair amount for a service you enjoy their lifestyle shouldn't be a factor in the amount you contribute the only factor is what value do you place in their blog, their forums, their website.
Only you can answer that question.
Mallo
I completely support Howard and Linda with their "pay what you think it's worth" approach. If you don't think it's worth anything, don't contribute. If you do, contribute what you think it's worth as you are able to. Feels completely in keeping with the tone of this site to me.
I found Howard and Linda when doing a google search on our way back from an annual rv trip this past summer. I just went back and looked and my first post was on July 21, 2010. There is no way we could afford to contribute an amount that adequately covers what we have learned in less than 90 days -- much less the entertainment value!
First and most important, thanks to Howard and Linda's openness with both their thought process and their financials we learned that what we thought was an impossible dream was actually very doable for us. We've wanted to go fulltime for a while, but thought we needed this magic number in the bank to make it possible. By sitting down with H & L's budget and creating our own, we learned we could not only hit the road as soon as we could get our stuff cleared out, but that we would likely be better off financially than we currently are!
From the other folks on the Forum and in Chat I learned about the 3G Store and how to increase our cellphone/aircard receptions so I can type this as we sit in Arkansas!
I also learned about CradlePoint routers so I can get rid of our cable internet service while we still have the S&B and move it to the RV the beginning of the year.
I've also learned about workkamping and volunteer opportunities from people I've come to trust. There's a long list of other things we've learned, but these are just a few hightlights that come to mind.
And perhaps most important, we've gotten tons of support for what more mainsteam folks would say is a crazy idea. And we've made many online friends who we look forward to meeting in real life!
Thank you H & L for creating and maintaining such a helpful, informative and supportive environment.
One other thing -- 1/4 of a million in the bank is a pitance if you expect to live on it. My dad left almost exactly that amount in the bank when he died 8 years ago. My mom has a retirement income and no mortgage. That money is still nearly gone today. She doesn't travel or have outrageous spending habits, but between emergency expenses and the recession let's just say the 1/4 mill is no more... Whether H & L have funds in the bank is irrelevant to this discussion.
Now where's the darn button???
-- Edited by Ckerr on Friday 15th of October 2010 09:36:48 AM
-- Edited by Ckerr on Friday 15th of October 2010 09:37:28 AM
I have never met Howard and Linda, but let me tell you something about what I do know.
There are other threads on this forum regarding the odeal that my wife went through before she finally passed away a year ago... being hosptitalized 250 miles from here for a year after suffering serious burns in an accident. As a result of all that, combined with my own health issues that have surfaced since then, our (my) RV dreams are permanently dead.
During that period of time I received a couple unsolicited phone calls and emails from Howard. Given that this was almost two years ago now, there could not have been any ulterior motives (for those of you given to conspiracy theories).
They have opened themselves up completely to all the readers of this website (and the IRS), for only one reason that I can see... to encourage people to follow their dreams instead of walking in lock-step as drones to their societal masters.
For a lot of us, this will not be possible because we have bought into the consumerist/advertising bandwagon, and so we're in debt up to our ears; for others it just may not be inside our comfort envelope.
In any event, Howard and Linda, if you ever decide to stay at FDR State Park in GA again, perhaps on your way to Jacksonville, give me a call... I'd love to treat you to dinner - there are actually supposed to be some pretty good restaurants in the dinky nearby towm of Pine Mountain.... probably because of its proximity to Callaway Gardens.
“It depends!”
I would start my statement by quoting an attorney I once met. When asked a question, he preceded the answer with “It depends”.
So,”it depends”, if you went out to dinner, a movie, bought a book, or even renewed your subscription to trail life; how much would you spend?
It depends, what you are willing to pay for entertainment, knowledge or just information. It’s up to you. Yes, there are many websites and journals on the web that are free but, do they have the class and entertainment value that Howard puts out every day. The RV-Dreams website is presented at a professional level that an individual like myself appreciate. When you’re looking for quality, it depends. Knowledge, information, and entertainment value comes at a cost and it depends what value you give this website!
So check your depends and ask yourself, what is the value that I receive from the content of is this website? Is it knowledge, information, or entertainment? It depends if you want to continue the quality of content presented or not! Howard and Linda have made window of opportunity for their readers and have put information out that is useful, entertaining and educational. If you enjoy what they do, support their endeavors. And I will keep buying lottery tickets, because I enjoy it! I will continue to support and enjoy the website too!
-- Edited by azrving on Friday 15th of October 2010 12:54:53 PM
Like others, I have very conflicting emotions regarding this subject and I am even hesitant to comment. We'll see if I actually post this!
To be honest, I don't read Howard and Linda's journal. I only participate in the forum, so I didn't even know about this issue until reading the original message above.
The amount of knowledge, support, encouragement and downright friendliness I have gleaned from these forums is priceless and continues to be so. You folks, along with Howard and Linda's example, breathed life into a dream that had been put on hold but is now a reality. I feel in a way that the folks here are extended family. And I've never even corresponded with Howard or Linda. I like to think that I have contributed back in small ways on the forums.
I do believe Howard's wording of the request could have been phrased differently so as not to imply supporting their lifestyle just because they do not want to workamp, etc. Photos of wonderful tours, golfing (whether fees included in workamping hours or not), recalls of sumptuous meals at nice restaurants, etc. do not encourage one to donate to support someone else's comfortable lifestyle.
One's knee-jerk reaction is, "Gee, get a job like the rest of us."
I would love to contribute, understanding the the behind-the-scenes work, time and energy involved to keep a site like this up and running and the philosophy and intent behind it. Really, I do.
As many of you know, we began our journey a little over three months ago with much less in monetary resources than others. It was our choice. We must work, whether it be in a campground or other industry such as we are currently doing or whether we were not living in an RV; however, we are able to enjoy the freedom of choice where we do so and enjoy the lifestyle of living in an RV.
Again, while I would love to contribute - and Howard/Linda if there is some other way I could do so other than monetarily, let me know - I cannot at this time.
What it boils down to is looking out for #1, and #2 and #3 - which are me, Dave and Maggie. We live a simple, low-key life - heck, we don't do the typical sightseeing things that require admission fees, we rarely dine out, etc. I just received a AmEx gift card for my birthday, so I think I'll treat myself to a professional hair trim at Wal-Mart!! Have not had a professional cut since early July, which is unheard of for me!
That's okay, though. We are content just to be "free," on the road, rid of much stress, feeling the best physically than in quite a while, and treasuring so much quality time spent together.
My dream since 2002 has become a reality.
We knew going into this we would have to drastically curtail our discretionary spending and find paying work. We took a hard look at our finances and our desires and, well, we must work in order to live this lifestyle - or any lifestyle, actually. Sure, we'd love to just "hang out" and travel criss-cross/zig-zag all over the US, but that would be financially suicidal, bluntly put.
It is our choice. Whether one chooses to workamp or not, play golf or not, cycle or not . . . it is about choices. It always is, about everything in our lives.
If Howard and Linda choose to not workamp and solicit contributions for RV-Dreams or shut down the site, that is their choice. Contribute or not, that's your choice.
My choice is being realistic about our finances and discretionary spending yet at the same time offering my assistance to Howard and Linda in non-monetary ways.
Warm regards to all,
Betty
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Friday 15th of October 2010 01:46:18 PM
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Friday 15th of October 2010 05:13:00 PM
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Friday 15th of October 2010 05:15:54 PM
But just as much as we don't want to feel the pressure of running a club, I still don't want to spend three, four, or five months workamping anymore. And we certainly prefer not to take on "real" jobs unless it is absolutely necessary.
Sorry, but I lost a lot of respect after reading the above. Maybe I am misreading it but it sounds to me like laziness, and comes across as somewhat offensive. I mean, nobody WANTS to do those things, but you seem to be bright enough to have known it might be necessary when you first embarked on this RV endeavor with limited savings and income. I would have too much pride to have asked for donations,"chipping in", charity, whatever you want to call it, while I was still young enough and healthy enough to provide for myself. If your thinking is that the donations are for value received via the forum and website you provide, I think you will find over the next few months you are incorrect.
From the Journal Comments (J.C. Webber III):
Another struggle I have is with the idea of promoting or encouraging people to quit working early, without an adequate retirement portfolio and then asking others to 'help out'. How much better off would you be now if you had just waited another 5 years before you quit earning the kind of money that could build a more comfortable retirement nest egg?
That about sums it up for me.
There are a lot of decent people that frequent this board. To those that have answered questions and provided help to me, I offer my sincerest thanks.
Luvglass said:
Good luck, and good bye,
Racerguy said:
What Fred said. I find value in it,if you don't see ya.
No need to point me towards the door, I know the way.
-- Edited by Steak Eater on Friday 15th of October 2010 05:46:10 PM
Howard and Linda deserve better. They have unselfishly provided a journal, a forum, a chat room and created a virtual family. If you are among those who disagree with this concept, you do not have to "chip in", so please don't feel like you must denigrate our "hosts".
At the age of four, I learned a valuable lesson from the book Bambi. The mother of Thumper the rabbit said it best, "If you can't say something nice about somebody, don't say nothing at all."
-- Edited by Roz on Friday 15th of October 2010 06:50:41 PM
I guess I just don't understand why there are those that are upset with Howard and Linda. He plainly states that he would rather work with RV-Dreamers on the site and keep it afloat than do workcamping. He knows if they do both they will be right back where they were five years ago working full time plus. Also they know they can do more with the site while travelling rather than workcamping. That is what their site is about............ RV-Dreamers and travelling, not workcamping.
They have not said to one person if you don't pay you will be cut off from this site. In fact the idea is that those who think it is a value can come on the site as they do now.......... and those that don't can come also. They want the site to be what they orginally designed it to be...... Free to all and a value to everyone. However it takes money so why not allow those of us who do want to contribute and want to keep this site open and free be allowed to do so without treating Howard and Linda as if they are asking for a handout.
They know there are those who for many reasons can not and will not pay. Howard said as much when he first approached us with this idea. As a matter of fact he also said he would be one that might question it if someone else tried this. After reading every word written for the past five years I don't believe Howard or Linda would ever treat a non contributor any different than the one who contributes the most. If you believe they are those kind of people then you haven't been her long enough.
So please those who don't think it is the right thing to do then hang around continue to do just as you have done no matter what decision you make about the money. Some of you put some very vauable info out there and I for one would hate to see any one leave. However please allow those of us who believe it is worth what they are asking to contribute without having to hear how your opinions of them have changed. They are the same couple that started this from scratch and grown it into a job by caring for and about others. I still believe that is their goal...... and yes to be able to do it full timing and enjoying life with those they are helping.
Bottom line if the site stays open I see hundreds if not thousands of new people finding the site......... If it closes no one will get the help and information that we have gotten not just from them but from each other. That is the real value I see in contributing what little they have set as a guideline. I for one intend on supporting them and I hope enough do so we can keep this RV-Dream open to everyone....... Those that can and those that can't contribute for whatever the reason.
Sorry for rambling......
Billy
Unfortunately, money is a necesary evil in this society. Howard and Linda have put in a lot of time, money, and blood, sweat, and tears. They share with us, the RV public, many things that most of us refuse to share; personal/business income and expenses and many RV and life experiences. THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS, but they do it because they want to help others realize that they can achieve the RV dream of fulltiming. Thanks to Google, I discovered RV-Dreams.com. Luckily I clicked on that link on 9/29/2009. That day I realized new hope for a fun and exciting future. Thankfully H&L started up the site and kept it going. But, what if they hadn't kept it going, or even started it in the first place, would I have been blessed with another Google suggestion? Likely, but not with the content, honesty, and guidance that RV-Dreams.com has provided. We probably would not be well on our way to realizing this dream, not to mention meeting such wonderful people like Howard and Linda, Jim and Linda, Bob and Jacki, Paul and Marti, Jim and Dee, John and Ginny, Gene and Virginia, and so many more. Yes, H&L need money to keep going forward with RV-Dreams.com. Many have expressed how they are so glad when H&L get back on the road after a workampng stint. That is the whole point, H&L will be so much more productive if they can continue traveling. RV-Dreams.com needs to stay on line. If you don't want to chip in, then don't. Stay with us though, this is a great place with great info and great people!
--mike
In a sense, Howard and Linda have created more than just a website and blog. They have helped to create a family of like-minded folks who also have RV dreams. Do you want a value? Is there any other forum that is more friendly? Is there any other website where people are truly helpful to each other? Some other forums, while also heavy on the help and advise, also tend to be like a clique. Those I spend very little time on because I would rather be here, trying to help with what little knowledge and encouragement that I have.
Truthfully, Jo and I can't afford to contribute right now. (If anyone wants to buy a home in the Oklahoma City area, I can.) So, we will continue to try to help the "family" as best we can while we continue to work to be able to fund our own dream with whatever pension and Social Security we get upon retirement. Without RV Dreams examples (yes that includes participant other than Howard and Linda), Jo and I would have no hopes of following our dream.
It is my sincere hope that Howard and Linda's decision not be a stumbling block to the rest of us being a part of this RV Dreams family. May God bless all involved with such an adventure.
Terry
There is absolutely no way to transmit one’s true feelings without the spoken word combined with body language. So be tolerant, as you would want someone to do for you when attempting to put your feelings on paper.
If you have never been a volunteer Webmaster, as I current do for a couple of non-profit groups, you have absolutely no concept of the time spent performing the duties and would wonder why one would do it without pay. Your lack of education on website design, maintenance, and associated time spent is meaningless when it applies to any opinion on fair compensation.
I know that there are many who want something for nothing, but how many think that their time is worth nothing? Even the Lord got a free meal once in awhile. Hello!!!
Everyone has been given a choice to contribute or not. How much fairer can that be? Do you think that Wal-Mart would let you “contribute” when it comes to buying a new wide screen TV?
After I closed this thread, TXRVer sent me a private message wishing to apologize for a couple statements he made. I have, at his request, made the edits. Howard
-- Edited by TXRVr on Friday 15th of October 2010 09:22:18 PM
-- Edited by Howard on Saturday 16th of October 2010 06:43:29 PM
With an apology submitted and an edit done in a prior post, I also made the appropriate edit here referring to the statements that are now deleted. Again, I deeply apologize about this whole thing. But at least these wonderful members are trying to make things right between themselves. Howard
-- Edited by Howard on Saturday 16th of October 2010 06:47:56 PM
Again, all of this requires aligning your priorities. What is important to one is not important to another. I've checked over Howard's journal and various links to their budget and so forth. Well dang! They don't want to get "real full time jobs" but they want to maintain 2 vehicles plus the 5er, play golf, have an entertainment budget of $200 per month and so on. And he's planning to buy a brand new video camera. I assume Howard is planning to list the new camera as a business expense, thus justifying the outlay of more cash. More power to them if they can get folks to "chip in" to pay for their website. It's a good plan.
In our own case (which is all I can attest to) we trimmed all entertainment out of our budget. We have one cell phone, one computer and one vehicle besides the MH. Due to the fact that we had an expensive 2009, we have planned to stay put for a few months at a time and use our membership CG's where possible to save cash. We are using 2010 and 2011 to conserve some funds. It is what is going to work for us. I don't expect other people to subsidize us because we chose to bail out of jobs early in life. We'll have to figure it out on our own.
Good for Howard and Linda if they can pull this off. If folks want to help out and "chip in" then they should do that. If others, like me, do not want to pay the way to living their RV-Dream then they should do that. It boils down to making choices in everything we do.
That's my 2 cents worth. It's too bad some folks are getting hot under the collar about this situation. It seems pretty straight forward to me...either do it or don't.
And people really think $250,000 in the bank is some rich amount of money? Seriously?
Pinon
Howard and Linda should not be required to defended their decision to ask for monetary contributions nor have they censored anyone, by removing any post. All these years they have provided this forum for everyone to freely use without requiring anything more than everyones enjoyment of being part of the RV-Dream Community.
What they have asked, is to chip in if you wanted to support their lifestyle of maintaining interesting information for those who enjoy the RV-Dream Community. They did not delete anyone's right from using this site, even to those who did not wish to pay.
Everyone was given a choice.... continue as before or chip-in. There was no reason be be angry at the host for asking. No one was blackmailed to pay, ie, if you don't contribute we will shut the website down. Everyone has to choose what is best for them.
I cannot understand why anyone would want to say adios just because the Host asked for followers to chip-in if they wish to support their agenda of providing interesting RV information via the RV-Dream website.
The RV-Dream Community followers were given a choice... now is the time to get back to being RV-Dream family and enjoying this website, much like we have for the 5 plus years.
If you want to contribute, go ahead and contribute, but if you don't want to, don't!
This forum has always been know as the friendliest forum on the Internet, and I for one would like it to stay that way.
This thread is not doing anyone any good, and is just turning the forum down the wrong path.
Let it go!!! Do what you want, but quit putting each other or Howard and Linda down!
This family is above that.
Jim
So lets change the subject to a happier theme, who wants to talk about politics or religion
-- Edited by Racerguy on Saturday 16th of October 2010 07:04:56 AM
Bob, we are sorry we have offended you and that you feel the need to leave. We enjoyed meeting you and Judy at the KOA in New Mexico a few years back. I'll simply say good luck to you both.
). However, as many have noted, there is something special about this group of people and we decided to fight through the negatives for what we believe in our hearts.
As for the rest of the comments, thanks to everyone for your kind words, your not-so-kind words, and your opinions. But we certainly don't want to let this thing get overly heated and I am disappointed in some of the comments that are aimed at others or perhaps not as diplomatic as we would like.
As "MargieAnne" said
"I hope this doesn't tear the fabric of RV Dreamers apart. That would be extremely sad."
And that was one of our biggest fears in going forward with our idea. We were certainly concerned how this would play out, but we ultimately believed we would be better able to keep the spirit of the RV-Dreamers and improve the cohesiveness by spending more time on the websites. So, it's time to get to that.
But before I go, I'll just make a few more comments related to the posts here.
I think some of you are absolutely right in that I wasn't very smart in the way I phrased things. I don't know if better statement of the issue would have changed things or not, but it certainly couldn't have hurt.
And "azrving", I understand your concerns that we might shut the websites down based on my statements in the one Journal entry. But all of this is actually our commitment to keep everything going. We certainly weighed the pros and cons of shutting everything down and disappearing (which many wish we would do
One interesting thing that has happened is that other folks that put a lot of time and effort into "free" websites have contacted us. It seems that many have wanted to ask for monetary support but have been afraid to do that. Well, we certainly know why and now they are thankful we are taking the hits. But don't be surprised if more websites start a "pay what you think it is worth" approach.
Finally, I'm sorry that I have caused one of the most antagonistic threads ever in this forum. We certainly don't want to see that and it's time to let this one go as "Jim01" stated.
So, I'll be closing this thread as I don't think keeping it open any longer is beneficial to the overall good for everyone. If someone wants to open an entirely new thread regarding any of this I can't prevent that, but if it happens, let's keep it and our opinions, even if we disagree, respectful.
Thanks for listening.