Please bear with me on this one. It touches home because two fellow Okies were victims and because Jo and I work for a law enforcement agency in Oklahoma.
With the good news today of the arrest of the Arizona prison escapees, I can now rest a little easier and worry less for those friends on these forums that are populating our nations campgrounds. The reason is because McCluskey and Welch had been frequenting camping areas and truck stops in their efforts to avoid capture.
Even at their capture, McCluskey had stated that if he could have reached his weapon in their tent that he would have engaged the police officers. Welch had reached for her weapon, but dropped it after confrontation by SWAT officers. They were a couple not afraid to kill even innocent people to further their aims. The couple from Tecumseh, Oklahoma that were killed in New Mexico are evidence of the likelyhood of criminals to kill, even if for no other reason than to avoid having witnesses around.
I cannot stress enough for everyone to always be aware of the circumstances surrounding you. Even if you aren't one to own and carry a firearm, always be aware of the location of other items that could be used as a weapon to protect yourselves. For years, it has been known that criminals avoid individuals who are armed, or could be armed, or even appear to be confident and assured in their manner.
For instance, when walking to one's vehicle, don't just amble along, acting as if you are unsure of your vehicle's location. Even if you are lost, stride determinedly and confidently in your lost status to avoid allowing a criminal to target you. Even in heavily trafficked areas (think Walmart parking lots), NEVER walk to your car talking on your cell phone. If you are on the phone to someone, your awareness of your surroundings are diminished. Criminals look for people who seem to be unaware to target for their crimes. As a friend tells me, "Keep your head on a swivel. Keep looking around as you walk to your vehicle."
Even if not directly threatened, it may be necessary to confront an intruder into someone else's area, even if to only stand and carefully watch the intruder. (They hate to be noticed.) This kind of action may prevent a criminal from targeting a neighbor, whether it is a residential area or campground.
Don't be afraid to call the police if you are suspicious. You may not be officially "making a false report of a crime" if you are only informing the police of an intruder. How do you know that the police aren't already aware that someone has been commiting crimes in the area where you are? The police don't always inform the public if there has been a series of crimes in a particular area. But, if you report an intruder, it may already be someone they are looking for.
If at all possible, avoid being alone. There is safety in numbers. If you are hesitant about walking out in the dark to your vehicle, ask an employee of the store where you are to ask someone to walk you to your car or at least stand outside watching you as you go to it.
Alertness is the watch word, especially for those that are in areas other than "home". Since some of your homes are mobile, you often are in areas unfamiliar to you.
Stay safe. We want to visit WITH you, not visit ABOUT you.
Terry
GENECOP said
10:41 AM Aug 20, 2010
Good stuff, thanks for the reminder, G
The Bear II said
12:45 PM Aug 20, 2010
Thanks for the tips Terry....
My Dad was visiting the St Louis Arch and was confronted by two teenagers. He raised up his camera and took a flash photo of the two...that was enough to scare them off. It's fun to watch the reaction when Dad is showing the slides of the trip and he says, "And this is a photo of the two fellers that wanted to rob us".
Sushidog said
01:11 PM Aug 20, 2010
Four years ago my DW and I were vacationing on the Blue Ridge Parkway. We were tent camping, as it was right before we purchased our Aliner. We decided to pull over in a rest area to get a few hours of sleep in the car before heading on, choosing to arrive at our campsite at daybreak. We found a beautiful overlook in a secluded location that we thought was safe. A couple hours later we were awakened by someone tapping on the windshield with their face pressed up against the side glass! It felt comforting to query them as to the nature of the disturbance with my hand on my dad's stainless 38 special police revolver (my DW was backing me up with a small but potent 22 magnum).
It turned out to be a case of mistaken identity by some drunken teenagers. However, even after we identified ourselves, they failed to move on. Instead, two car loads of drunken juveniles (7) started whooping and hollering, sloshing beer and circling behind the car in an intimidating, rowdy manor. My DW and I weren't worried, as we were both trained, (I served my country for 9 yrs as an Army officer) and ready. Had their little game gotten out of hand, we were capable of defending our lives. Discretion proved to be the better part of valor that night, as we decided to move on, turning our parking area over to the delinquents. I would have hated to end one of their young lives just because someone did something stupid. Even a drunken teenager can pull a trigger, and he may even have gotten lucky.
You never know though, it could have gone the other way, as it did for my uncle one night. He was a big sportsman, hunting and fishing as much as he could. He recounted the sad tale that he was forced to plead for his life and the life of his wife of 50 years. One evening a deranged mugger put a gun in his face, and threatened to blow his head off, as he and his DW returned to his camp from a fishing trip. He was unarmed and helpless, at the mercy of his assailant. The perp decided just to rob them of their money and jewelry, and spared their lives. Instead, he knocked my Aunt to the ground and pistol whipped my elderly uncle instead of murdering them. My teary eyed uncle told me he never wanted to feel helpless like that again, so he armed himself whenever he went out thereafter. After the attack, my uncle bought a High Standard 22 magnum derringer that fits into a wallet style holster. (I inherited this gun and it was the one used to defend our lives in the prevoius indident.) It fits into your back pocket and appears to be a wallet even when it's drawn and fired. So when a mugger says "give me your money or I'll blow your head off." You give him your wallet and stop his felonious assault.
Like a life insurance policy, you pray you never need to use it. But unlike insurance, which can only pay your family after you're already dead, discretely carrying a firearm, at least in your RV, could save your life, or the life of a loved one.
Chip
Necro said
06:32 AM Aug 22, 2010
Thanks for the tips Terry. As we will be joining the life quite soon, this kind of advice will be invaluable to us.
retread said
07:33 AM Aug 22, 2010
TY, Terry. We were stunned to hear of the Oklahoma couple that were killed by these ruthless criminals and we're thrilled that the last of them was finally captured. Let's hope they keep them locked up this time!
Travelling with our kids has kept us with a much more watchful eye than if it was just the two of us. While we enjoy the freedom of travelling where we want, when we want is wonderful for us. Unfortunately, that same freedom is available to ill-willed folks that could use that freedom to escape notice of law enforcement.
We echo your cautions and extend it to be watchful for those that would be predators for children. No need to be fearful - just prepared and watchful! We've had wonderful neighbors 99% of the time that I know we could count on to watch out for us and vice-versa.
karen948 said
09:28 AM Aug 22, 2010
I have often thought about this issue, especially when stopping at Walmart or rest areas to sleep when traveling. I have thought it would be a good idea to carry a handgun for safety reasons, but then don't you have to get a concealed weapon permit? I spoke with a friend of mine who is in law enforcement and he told me that if you have a concealed weapon permit in one State, it doesn't mean that you are legal to carry it with you into another State. Do any of you know what the law is for RV'rs? Thanks
Necro said
09:41 AM Aug 22, 2010
I'm also curious as to the gun questions. I don't really want one, as I've never owned one, but I think it could be a good idea. Also, I'm not sure, but wouldn't a high pressure (caliber?) bb gun work pretty well, with no law issues?
I'm a big guy and can defend myself, but the thought of armed intruders dwarfs anyone. Still wrestling with this topic.
Sushidog said
11:03 AM Aug 22, 2010
Necro wrote:
I'm also curious as to the gun questions. I don't really want one, as I've never owned one, but I think it could be a good idea. Also, I'm not sure, but wouldn't a high pressure (caliber?) bb gun work pretty well, with no law issues?
I'm a big guy and can defend myself, but the thought of armed intruders dwarfs anyone. Still wrestling with this topic.
If you've never owned or used a gun I don't recommend buying one, as much training is required for their safe use. Instead consider a less lethal alternative. Bear spray is a pretty good immobilizer and is legal in more places. It is also innocuous when carried in bear country. Tazers are also available for civillian use and there are even paint-ball guns designed for home defense with solid rubber and tear gas projectiles available. You can get lethal, large caliber air rifles which I'm sure the law would consider the equilivant to a firearm.
Many states consider your vehicle or camper an extension of your home so storing a firearm there is protected (though some states don't, so it's best to research this well as laws seem to change daily.) Many states have reciprocity agreements for concealed carry permits, though others don't recognize your permit from another state. It's best to check with each state's concealed and open carry laws through which you are traveling to ensure you are legal. Did you know that there are many states which allow the open carrying of firearms without a permit of any kind? Here's a website full of great firearms info by state: http://opencarry.org/maps.html
-- Edited by Sushidog on Sunday 22nd of August 2010 11:05:28 AM
Terry and Jo said
12:02 PM Aug 22, 2010
Chips comments are good, but the one link is for states where "open carry" of a firearm is allowed. Open carry means that the weapon is visible at all times. Concealed carry is for when the weapon MUST be concealed to legally carry the weapon.
While open carry might be a good thing, anyone who does so should be trained and practice a lot on weapon retention. Meaning that you learn to keep your weapon under your control, should someone else try to "draw" your weapon from the holster. I know of a highway patrolman that has instructed his wife to attempt to get his weapon at any time that she wants to so that he can practice his "weapons retention" skills.
Open carry is not legal in all states, while concealed carry is legal in almost all states, provided that the individual is licensed by that state. Then, I advise contacting the issuing agency of concealed carry permits in your state to verify which states do have reciprocity with your state. Your state would be your state of residence. So if you had your fulltiming residence in South Dakota, you would need to get that state's permit. Also regarding open carry, while a state may allow open carry, some communities within that state do not allow open carry.
While most states do allow one to OWN a weapon, not all will allow a weapon to be carried. So, if one is traveling, one needs to research which states allow what type of ownership or carry possibilities that are allowed. Also, if one owns weapons and carries them in one's camper, one cannot take those weapons into Canada.
Regarding weapons, most people would do well without firearms, so long as they are trained in the use of "alternative" weapons. Bear spray, short clubs, or other alternatives can sometimes be used wrong, thus only making the assailant more angry. (That can include the bears.) If one has firearms, keep in mind that a bullet is NOT going to be stopped by the walls of a camper.
With that last thought, some prefer the idea of a shotgun over a handgun for self defense. While not trying to advocate any one particular firearm, there is one brand of handgun that is capable of firing both .45 caliber long Colt ammunition AND .410 guage shotgun shells. Thus, for in-camper self defense, that one could be used without too much fear of a round penetrating someone else's camper.
For those not familiar with firearms, .45 caliber ammunition come in three different categories. .45 long Colt is for cowboy style weapons. .410 guage shotguns are the smallest guage of shotgun. Since I won't name the handgun that is capable of firing both, I would suggest that if you are interested, to see your local firearms dealer, or, you could private message me and I will give the name out that way. But, you may find it just by using your internet search engines.
One other thing for anyone interested in purchasing a firearm. You must either purchase the weapon in your state of residence, or purchase it elsewhere and have the weapon shipped to a licensed firearms dealer in your state of residence. From my understanding, ammunition is not limited it that way.
Terry
Necro said
01:40 PM Aug 22, 2010
Great advice both. If I do go the gun route, I would definitely take all the training courses I could. I would rather not get a real gun. I think I like the paintball, or tazer gun ideas. Still not sure.
My biggest worry is deep woods hiking and bears. I would hate to have to kill one, but I sure as hell don't want one getting the better of me. I don't know if a large caliber bb gun or paintball gun would do the trick, and i've heard that spray sometimes just infuriates them more.
I live in Pa. and there are bears everywhere, but i've yet to ever run across one on a hike. I've seen them though, and some are just HUGE. I can't imagine what I'd do if I ran into an angry one. You're supposed to lie down and play dead, but I'm betting my mind and body wouldn't cooperate on that, and my legs would just RUUUUUNNNNN.
RonandJacki said
01:53 PM Aug 23, 2010
I was truck prowled a couple weeks ago, when an unknown person approached my truck (semi) and looked into the passenger side window at 4 AM. Something woke me up to be ready for this encounter. As I sat in the sleeper looking out from behind a blanket over the seats this person parked tight in front of the truck and approached . As I sat there waiting to see what he was up to I grabbed my 5 cell MagLight and held it over the passenger seat with the light end in my grip. When he looked into the truck, still not seeing me sitting there, I lifted the flashlight up to where he could see it in his face. He then took two steps backwards and reteated to his car and drove away. I used to carry a gun, but when I pulled it once and dropped the barrel over the window sill, I'm not sure who was scared more, him or me. I no longer carry the firearm. I always have my cell phone and a couple short blade (leagl under 4 inches) concealable knives at hand.
Racerguy said
04:31 PM Aug 23, 2010
I keep a handgun for protection and can and will use it if needed.I try very hard to put us in a position NOT to need to.
lamehawk said
11:55 PM Aug 24, 2010
I am new here so I hope all is well with me posting this!
In this day when economic troubles are many the rules are changing on what and how far criminals will go so be prepared.I do have guns BUT my weapon of choice is a 160lb bull mastiff named Rocky.There are many places I cannot go because of my dog but my choice to be safe out weights all.I have some physical problems so concern for safety is the utmost.I have been approached several times over the years and when my dog or dogs show interest most criminal types avoid me.My shotgun is loaded with size 9 shot and close range the perp will not be happy and the camper near me if any will not be hurt.For me my life and what things I have are all I have and I will not allow them to be bothered.So my rules are this the 3 D's defuse,disable, destroy! If I can't talk,walk or run away then comes the spray after that my dog takes over and gives me time to prepare for the last step.Thank GOD so far I have only had to use 2 steps!
Peace to all here and I hope you all have safe journey's!
Sushidog said
07:42 AM Aug 25, 2010
If you'd like to enjoy the security of a dog while you're gone, but don't want to feed him or clean up after him just buy an extra large dog bowl (preferably with the word "KILLER" on it. Put it on your steps along with a pair of used, muddy, size 13 boots. Now pin a note to the boots which reads: "Bubba, Killer has been pretty riled up lately after he tore up that great dane. He even bit be this morning, so don't let him out. I'll be back soon with more ammo. Duke."
That should do the trick. ;)
Chip
With the good news today of the arrest of the Arizona prison escapees, I can now rest a little easier and worry less for those friends on these forums that are populating our nations campgrounds. The reason is because McCluskey and Welch had been frequenting camping areas and truck stops in their efforts to avoid capture.
Even at their capture, McCluskey had stated that if he could have reached his weapon in their tent that he would have engaged the police officers. Welch had reached for her weapon, but dropped it after confrontation by SWAT officers. They were a couple not afraid to kill even innocent people to further their aims. The couple from Tecumseh, Oklahoma that were killed in New Mexico are evidence of the likelyhood of criminals to kill, even if for no other reason than to avoid having witnesses around.
I cannot stress enough for everyone to always be aware of the circumstances surrounding you. Even if you aren't one to own and carry a firearm, always be aware of the location of other items that could be used as a weapon to protect yourselves. For years, it has been known that criminals avoid individuals who are armed, or could be armed, or even appear to be confident and assured in their manner.
For instance, when walking to one's vehicle, don't just amble along, acting as if you are unsure of your vehicle's location. Even if you are lost, stride determinedly and confidently in your lost status to avoid allowing a criminal to target you. Even in heavily trafficked areas (think Walmart parking lots), NEVER walk to your car talking on your cell phone. If you are on the phone to someone, your awareness of your surroundings are diminished. Criminals look for people who seem to be unaware to target for their crimes. As a friend tells me, "Keep your head on a swivel. Keep looking around as you walk to your vehicle."
Even if not directly threatened, it may be necessary to confront an intruder into someone else's area, even if to only stand and carefully watch the intruder. (They hate to be noticed.) This kind of action may prevent a criminal from targeting a neighbor, whether it is a residential area or campground.
Don't be afraid to call the police if you are suspicious. You may not be officially "making a false report of a crime" if you are only informing the police of an intruder. How do you know that the police aren't already aware that someone has been commiting crimes in the area where you are? The police don't always inform the public if there has been a series of crimes in a particular area. But, if you report an intruder, it may already be someone they are looking for.
If at all possible, avoid being alone. There is safety in numbers. If you are hesitant about walking out in the dark to your vehicle, ask an employee of the store where you are to ask someone to walk you to your car or at least stand outside watching you as you go to it.
Alertness is the watch word, especially for those that are in areas other than "home". Since some of your homes are mobile, you often are in areas unfamiliar to you.
Stay safe. We want to visit WITH you, not visit ABOUT you.
Terry
It turned out to be a case of mistaken identity by some drunken teenagers. However, even after we identified ourselves, they failed to move on. Instead, two car loads of drunken juveniles (7) started whooping and hollering, sloshing beer and circling behind the car in an intimidating, rowdy manor. My DW and I weren't worried, as we were both trained, (I served my country for 9 yrs as an Army officer) and ready. Had their little game gotten out of hand, we were capable of defending our lives. Discretion proved to be the better part of valor that night, as we decided to move on, turning our parking area over to the delinquents. I would have hated to end one of their young lives just because someone did something stupid. Even a drunken teenager can pull a trigger, and he may even have gotten lucky.
You never know though, it could have gone the other way, as it did for my uncle one night. He was a big sportsman, hunting and fishing as much as he could. He recounted the sad tale that he was forced to plead for his life and the life of his wife of 50 years. One evening a deranged mugger put a gun in his face, and threatened to blow his head off, as he and his DW returned to his camp from a fishing trip. He was unarmed and helpless, at the mercy of his assailant. The perp decided just to rob them of their money and jewelry, and spared their lives. Instead, he knocked my Aunt to the ground and pistol whipped my elderly uncle instead of murdering them. My teary eyed uncle told me he never wanted to feel helpless like that again, so he armed himself whenever he went out thereafter. After the attack, my uncle bought a High Standard 22 magnum derringer that fits into a wallet style holster. (I inherited this gun and it was the one used to defend our lives in the prevoius indident.) It fits into your back pocket and appears to be a wallet even when it's drawn and fired. So when a mugger says "give me your money or I'll blow your head off." You give him your wallet and stop his felonious assault.
Like a life insurance policy, you pray you never need to use it. But unlike insurance, which can only pay your family after you're already dead, discretely carrying a firearm, at least in your RV, could save your life, or the life of a loved one.
Chip
Do any of you know what the law is for RV'rs? Thanks
I'm a big guy and can defend myself, but the thought of armed intruders dwarfs anyone. Still wrestling with this topic.
Many states consider your vehicle or camper an extension of your home so storing a firearm there is protected (though some states don't, so it's best to research this well as laws seem to change daily.) Many states have reciprocity agreements for concealed carry permits, though others don't recognize your permit from another state. It's best to check with each state's concealed and open carry laws through which you are traveling to ensure you are legal. Did you know that there are many states which allow the open carrying of firearms without a permit of any kind? Here's a website full of great firearms info by state: http://opencarry.org/maps.html
Here's another good site for reciprocity agreements for concealed carry permit holders: http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html
Chip
-- Edited by Sushidog on Sunday 22nd of August 2010 11:05:28 AM
Chips comments are good, but the one link is for states where "open carry" of a firearm is allowed. Open carry means that the weapon is visible at all times. Concealed carry is for when the weapon MUST be concealed to legally carry the weapon.
While open carry might be a good thing, anyone who does so should be trained and practice a lot on weapon retention. Meaning that you learn to keep your weapon under your control, should someone else try to "draw" your weapon from the holster. I know of a highway patrolman that has instructed his wife to attempt to get his weapon at any time that she wants to so that he can practice his "weapons retention" skills.
Open carry is not legal in all states, while concealed carry is legal in almost all states, provided that the individual is licensed by that state. Then, I advise contacting the issuing agency of concealed carry permits in your state to verify which states do have reciprocity with your state. Your state would be your state of residence. So if you had your fulltiming residence in South Dakota, you would need to get that state's permit. Also regarding open carry, while a state may allow open carry, some communities within that state do not allow open carry.
While most states do allow one to OWN a weapon, not all will allow a weapon to be carried. So, if one is traveling, one needs to research which states allow what type of ownership or carry possibilities that are allowed. Also, if one owns weapons and carries them in one's camper, one cannot take those weapons into Canada.
Regarding weapons, most people would do well without firearms, so long as they are trained in the use of "alternative" weapons. Bear spray, short clubs, or other alternatives can sometimes be used wrong, thus only making the assailant more angry. (That can include the bears.) If one has firearms, keep in mind that a bullet is NOT going to be stopped by the walls of a camper.
With that last thought, some prefer the idea of a shotgun over a handgun for self defense. While not trying to advocate any one particular firearm, there is one brand of handgun that is capable of firing both .45 caliber long Colt ammunition AND .410 guage shotgun shells. Thus, for in-camper self defense, that one could be used without too much fear of a round penetrating someone else's camper.
For those not familiar with firearms, .45 caliber ammunition come in three different categories. .45 long Colt is for cowboy style weapons. .410 guage shotguns are the smallest guage of shotgun. Since I won't name the handgun that is capable of firing both, I would suggest that if you are interested, to see your local firearms dealer, or, you could private message me and I will give the name out that way. But, you may find it just by using your internet search engines.
One other thing for anyone interested in purchasing a firearm. You must either purchase the weapon in your state of residence, or purchase it elsewhere and have the weapon shipped to a licensed firearms dealer in your state of residence. From my understanding, ammunition is not limited it that way.
Terry
My biggest worry is deep woods hiking and bears. I would hate to have to kill one, but I sure as hell don't want one getting the better of me. I don't know if a large caliber bb gun or paintball gun would do the trick, and i've heard that spray sometimes just infuriates them more.
I live in Pa. and there are bears everywhere, but i've yet to ever run across one on a hike. I've seen them though, and some are just HUGE. I can't imagine what I'd do if I ran into an angry one. You're supposed to lie down and play dead, but I'm betting my mind and body wouldn't cooperate on that, and my legs would just RUUUUUNNNNN.