Buying 5th wheel Direct from manufacture or dealer - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Wyatt262 · RV-Dreams Community Member

Buying 5th wheel Direct from manufacture or dealer

TheHarveys · RV-Dreams Family Member

I believe most RV manufacturers, (excepting some high-end ones like New Horizon's, Space Craft, Fox RV, etc.), support their dealer networks and will not even sell you an RV direct. They refer you to a dealer. As a general rule, if a manufacturer supplies a dealer network, then you likely will not be able to buy a unit direct. You will have to work through a dealer.

Wyatt262 · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thanks.

There is so much information I am trying to read thru and that really helps.

Dealer it is. The high-end ones are very nice, but I am not willing to spend that much.

Lisa

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Wyatt262 wrote:
Thanks.
There is so much information I am trying to read thru and that really helps.
Dealer it is. The high-end ones are very nice, but I am not willing to spend that much.

Lisa

Just remember nobody should pay MSRP. Look for at least 25% off the MSRP or list price.

Wyatt262 · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thanks for the info. :)

Jo And Craig · RV-Dreams Family Member

Lisa, on a new unit I would expect to get anywhere from 30-35% off MSRP. Even though Chris Grathen at the Evergreen/Lifestyle plant (Middlebury, IN) has taken us under his wing, we are buying our Luxury Lifestyle LS38RS from Tiara RV in Elkhart, IN. "Deb" has been awesome to work with and countered my initial offer with 36.5% off MSRP. This includes the PDI, sleepover in their lot, etc. We are soooo very happy with our treatment so far and Deb certainly has made the process quick and painless. So, BiggaRView suggested 25% off MSRP. I'm suggesting much more. (New units, of course!) I hope this helps.

Wyatt262 · RV-Dreams Community Member

How do you find the true MSRP?

TheHarveys · RV-Dreams Family Member

The dealer usually has an order sheet that they fill out to include the base trailer model you want plus all the options and extras. The MSRP prices for the base unit and the options are usually listed on this sheet.

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jo And Craig wrote:
Lisa, on a new unit I would expect to get anywhere from 30-35% off MSRP. Even though Chris Grathen at the Evergreen/Lifestyle plant (Middlebury, IN) has taken us under his wing, we are buying our Luxury Lifestyle LS38RS from Tiara RV in Elkhart, IN. "Deb" has been awesome to work with and countered my initial offer with 36.5% off MSRP. This includes the PDI, sleepover in their lot, etc. We are soooo very happy with our treatment so far and Deb certainly has made the process quick and painless. So, BiggaRView suggested 25% off MSRP. I'm suggesting much more. (New units, of course!) I hope this helps.

Jo and Craig, that's awesome. However, I did say at least 25%. It was a guess, based on what I've read... Lifestyle is on our shortlist and your bargaining acumen gives us hope for big savings also. Way to go!!!!! smile smile

Brian

PS: Chris at Lifestyle has answered every question I have fielded with knowledgeable answers. We like the LS38RS also.

-- Edited by biggaRView on Wednesday 30th of July 2014 06:04:14 PM

HighwayRanger · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jo And Craig wrote:
Lisa, on a new unit I would expect to get anywhere from 30-35% off MSRP. Even though Chris Grathen at the Evergreen/Lifestyle plant (Middlebury, IN) has taken us under his wing, we are buying our Luxury Lifestyle LS38RS from Tiara RV in Elkhart, IN. "Deb" has been awesome to work with and countered my initial offer with 36.5% off MSRP. This includes the PDI, sleepover in their lot, etc. We are soooo very happy with our treatment so far and Deb certainly has made the process quick and painless. So, BiggaRView suggested 25% off MSRP. I'm suggesting much more. (New units, of course!) I hope this helps.

I am wondering if that unusually high discount percentage is for an ordered coach, or for a unit you found on a dealer's lot. We hope to order a Lifestyle/DRV/Excel product, and need to make a smart bid.

Thanks,

Roy

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Todd and Lisa,

With regards to buying via dealer vs manufacturer, some manufacturers may very well sell direct. However, if they do, you will need to know what to look for in a PDI (Pre Delivery Inspection), or you will be at the mercy of the manufacturer. It could very well be that you wouldn't see as good of a discount that way either.

A good dealer will take the time to make sure that everything in the RV has been done correctly and that there are no "major" issues with say, "fit and finish." In the end, you still will want to do your own homework by looking at a lot of RV's in your search and compare one brand to another as to what "looks" best for you.

When looking at RV's, remember that the frame, axles, suspension, wheels and tires make up the very foundation of the RV. If there are weaknesses in any of those components, it could be a problem coming, and perhaps not too far down the road. Don't just look at external appearances. Look at how cabinets are put together; do they look like cheap thrown together units or are they real wood. In essence, take your time in looking at RV's so that you have a chance to do a good comparison between them.

As for a "standard" discount on RV's from MSRP, I wouldn't expect too much of a high discount. As Junkman mentioned, a dealer could show a high discount percentage, but it cost you elsewhere. He also has given good advice to look at different areas of the country as far as pricing is concerned. However, keep in mind that areas farther from the factory may have a little more to charge because of delivery charges.

When looking at a dealer as a possibility of purchasing, keep in mind that a good dealership will encourage their sales people to ask you questions so that they can best show you units that would meet your criteria. If they aren't asking question, either find another salesman or another dealership. As for the idea of considering dealers with multiple brands on the lot, that isn't always a good criteria. In some cases, salesmen/dealers may not know enough about all their brands/models to be of real help. If they don't know an answer, make sure they go looking for an answer for you. I went on a multi-brand dealership one time and the salesman and the management couldn't answer my questions about the one brand, and the only knowledge I had of that brand was what I read in their online brochures. If they don't know any more than what you can learn from the brochure, they would be a dealer for me to consider.

Good luck in your research and planning, and welcome to the forums.

Terry

Rob_Fla · RV-Dreams Family Member

If you are fulltiming then buying from a "local" dealer really does not mean a whole lot since you will probably not be near the dealer when you need warranty work.

We bought from a 5th Wheel from a "Wholesaler" and got a great deal.
Delivery went smooth and their PDI was very through and well done, we never went back to the dealer for anything.
We did have a couple of minor warranty issues but we got those taken care of on road in the manufacturers dealer network.

We bought our current 5th Wheel from a large "Mega" dealer, it was a end of year 2014 model, so with the new 2015s arriving daily they were motivated to move the 2014s. We did our research, stood our ground and took our time when negotiating with the dealer and in the end wound up with a very good deal.

Sometimes it hard to find the true MSRP, some of the large internet dealers do post true MSRP labels on their websites, some just post their own made up MSRP labels so it is hard to tell.

Also pricing and markup will vary widely from manufacturer to manufacturer but as others have said 25% to 35% off MSRP is typical.
We have always got discounts in the mid 30% range on our purchases.
Also with the Model Year changing now, (2015s are on the lots) dealers are somewhat motivated to move last years models off the lots and make room for the current year models. This gives another bargaining tool.

Wyatt262 · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thanks so much everyone for all the information.

Wyatt262 · RV-Dreams Community Member

Thank you

Jo And Craig · RV-Dreams Family Member

Todd and Lisa, this has been our experience.

We attended the RV-Dreams Spring rally in Tennessee and learned a great deal. (We HIGHLY recommend attending one.. or more!) After researching for the past 3 years we felt it was time to head off to the Evergreen/Lifestyle factory in Middlebury, IN for a plant tour. That is when we met Chris Grathen who gave us our own personal tour (because nobody else had booked the same day). Little did we know at the time what this meeting would lead up to, but Craig and I feel Chris has become a friend. Chris was (and is) extremely patient, with me especially, and we have spoken on the phone and communicated via e-mail a 'million' times. He never loses patience, is always quick to respond, and I have even sent him on many goose chases which don't seem to phase him at all. He is extremely accommodating and tells me I don't need to thank him... that he is selling "fun" and he could not love his job more. Very honorable (he's an Army vet) and trustworthy. Never have I doubted him and the dots have always connected.

We are Texans, but will be picking up our fifth wheel, as mentioned previously, at Tiara RV in Elkhart, IN... for a few of reasons. Manufacturers are finding it difficult to find people to transport these units to the various dealers across the U.S. In order to attract more transporters, the price per mile has been increased and it is taking up to 3 months for delivery. Not only did we want to save on the cost of transportation, but we did not (no way, no how) want to wait for delivery. This is the primary reason we decided to buy in the Middlebury/Elkhart/Goshen, IN area. Additionally, Tiara RV is 'around the corner' from the plant so if anything needs to be addressed by the plant we will be right there.

After our plant tour we sat down with Chris who wrote up an MSRP price sheet for us for future reference and negotiations. By the time we were able to order our 38RS, we were deep into purging our home as we received a contract on our house in less than 72 hours and had 5 weeks to be out. We were frantic, but Chris came to our rescue. He intervened on our behalf and prepared a detailed MSRP price sheet (with many revisions) to present to the dealers of our choice. He knew we wanted to attend the RV-Dreams Fall rally and has gone out of his way to ensure we make it to the party on time! Believe me, he knew exactly what we wanted and literally helped us build it on paper and get it on the schedule. For that, we are very grateful! (Thank you, Chris!!!) When we built, we made the decision to add a generator, wiring for solar, the Mor-Ryde I/S system, extra windows in the bedroom slide, move plugs, add plugs... all kinds of things... because we knew we could get a chunk of change knocked off a new unit through the dealer. To buy things or have things installed after market would cost us retail (with no discount). So, that is what we did, and why we did it that way.

As someone else mentioned, everyone encourages everyone to buy locally. That would be great if we "lived" locally, but most of us don't. What good is a local dealer if we are having issues in, say, Montana? This kinda bothered me at first, but the more I thought about it the more it just didn't make sense to buy locally, especially if delivery can be 3 months out... after the build!

So, our baby (Chris said he thinks it's a girl) is in the paint shop right now and should be ready for delivery the week of August 25th; provided, however, there are no issues. Yes, we also went with full body paint for the reason mentioned above. We will pack up our worldly belongings in a 10 X 12 U-Haul utility trailer in 2 weeks (from yesterday) and head north. Tiara RV has graciously offered to let us keep our belongings in a locked storage room until our RV is ready for us to move into. After our PDI, we will move in and spend the night (or 2?) on the lot. All of this is included in the price. Be fore warned, some dealers will want to charge extra ($400-600?) for PDI. So, with extra for PDI from a local dealer and add to that the expense of transporting the unit to your local dealer, well... it just all adds up.

Should you have any questions, please let me know! Good luck!

Jo And Craig · RV-Dreams Family Member

Brian, if I can help in any way or answer any questions, please let me know.

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jo And Craig wrote:
Brian, if I can help in any way or answer any questions, please let me know.

I'm sure we'll pepper you with many mfr specific questions assuming the Lifestyle remains on our shortlist. Elkhart, IN is about 2 1/2 hours away from us here in Chicagoland, so a factory tour, along with other Mfrs will likely be in the cards in the foreseeable future. Myself, I like the Mor/Ryde IS and other infrastructure options and details Lifestyle offers over many other 5ers... but not all. We're also down to Heartland Landmarks and DRV's, on the fringes and certainly not out of the running of our criteria... Trilogy, Redwoods, Excel, Open Range 3X, Grand Design, HL Big Horn & Big Country, Keystone Montana, New Horizons even though it's pricey and FR CedarCreek at the opposite end of our range. We are working out a plan to attend the Hershey PA show, perhaps as soon as next year to better do a side by side comparison of the mentioned rigs. Lots of fun. smile

Brian

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

FWIW, we were impressed with the Lifestyle RV. We liked the frame, the leveling system that frame can support, Big Foot, and the overall construction vs. price. We knew the production manager from KZ and he is a good guy and very competent. That gave us a good feeling to find an old and competent friend at the factory. You can get a MOR/ryde IS and other important upgrades as to tires, etc. and didn’t have to pay twice for those as aftermarket upgrades which, IMO, are necessities if you plan on traveling. (If we had purchases a Lifestyle without a MOR/ryde IS we would have taken it the 10 miles directly to MOR/ryde and had it installed. It's that important.)

We chose another brand (New Horizons, with which we are very pleased) due to design and option needs that Lifestyle, and others, just doesn’t or can’t provide. They are just not in the same business. Lifestyle is not a “custom” builder as is no one we know of in the Elkhart area except Forks. But, FWIW, Lifestyle, as far as “bones” are concerned, is a “good rig" if the layout and options meet your needs. We considered it. Just our perspective.

Looking forward to seeing Jo and Craig's

Bill

Wyatt262 · RV-Dreams Community Member

We are seriously looking at 100,000 or less for the 5th wheel. That includes all the extras we need. I am not sure everything we need yet still doing research. Want to be set up to boondock and internet is a BIG deal since we will be working on the road.

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

Wyatt262 wrote:
We are seriously looking at 100,000 or less for the 5th wheel. That includes all the extras we need. I am not sure everything we need yet still doing research. Want to be set up to boondock and internet is a BIG deal since we will be working on the road.

I don't recall if you have mentioned a timeframe for your purchase, but you could look at new 2015s today and then find a well maintained, gently used rig in say, 2 years. You don't take as big a hit on depreciation. Sometimes a better quality used rig is better than a lesser quality new one. Just sayin'.

Keep your options and your mind open.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Wyatt262 wrote:
We are seriously looking at 100,000 or less for the 5th wheel. That includes all the extras we need. I am not sure everything we need yet still doing research. Want to be set up to boondock and internet is a BIG deal since we will be working on the road.

Todd and Lisa,

Not knowing what extras you might want, it is hard to recommend too much, but when we bought our 2010 Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 back in that year, we ordered it with some extra options, including a 3000 watt pure sine wave inverter and 4 batteries. After discounts, ours definitely came in under the $100,000 mark. If you are also considering used, check out Rolling Retreats in Elk City, Oklahoma. They are a high volume DRV Suites dealer that gets a number of good used units in on trade. I can highly recommend Alicia and Slade there, as they know the value of customer service and do all that they can to help people, even those that aren't their customers.

Terry

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

I would second Terry’s suggestion if you are considering a MS.

I get private emails looking for information and one of most important issues is where you will actually get things fixed right after delivery. ALL RVs, new and used have issues. New ones especially have to “grow up” as one production manager put it to me. Good point from him. They are all one-of built units and frankly have little final detail testing. This is not a knock on any manufacture. It’s just true of one-of built units regardless of cost. They are “RV’s,” not cars of which thousans are made and, regardless of all the recalls, tend to work when you get them. RV’s are not houses either. They are different.

One of the things about Slade, as I have been advised, is his attention to a dealer PDI before you get the rig. Slade knows all RV’s require a through going over and shake down. This is, IMO, extremely important for people new to the RV world. Without experience you just don’t know what to look for. When we were doing our last PDI the line supervisor commented to me “you know what to look for.” Well, I hopefully should know something after some 35 years doing the RV thing. Experience cannot be bought; but with a good dealer it can be “rented.” Same deal if the factory does deliveries. But few do anymore and for good business reasons. Not always good for the customer but good for them, IMO.

Most manufactures now depend – actually plan – on the dealer “finishing” the rig; taking care of issues. Once the rig is shipped the factory can book the sale and that’s important to businesses that have operating arrangements with banks, i.e. lenders. Not good or bad – just is. There are a lot of definitions of “finishing.” But after a lot of experience in a lot of RV factories I can assure you few, regardless of manufacture, are truly road ready – finished – when they leave the factory floor. There is always something amiss. If not, yours will be the exception. Expect that and you won’t be disappointed.

As I commented – I agree with Terry as to a possible dealer selection based on reputation. Each experience is different because each RV is “one of a kind.”

My perspective FWIW

Rob_Fla · RV-Dreams Family Member

Well said Bill.

Debra and I have been RVing in all types of RVs for a little over 30 years (since our Daughter was quite young) and I RVed for many years with my parents as I was growing up.

RVs are different that S&B houses and require attention and maintenance to keep them in good working order.

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

Lots of good advice here. The only purchase number that really matters is what you write on the check. If you have a trade-in one dealer may give you plenty for the trade and not much of a discount, while another will do it the other way around. The check you would write is the same, so what's the difference?

Another point to consider is service after the sale. ALL coaches will need some work fairly soon, even multi-million-dollar motorhomes. If you buy from a dealer across the country don't expect your local dealer to treat you as well as if you had purchased from him. Also, consider the cost of the trip from where you are to the dealer where you buy from and return. That can well eat up much of the savings.

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

"If they don't treat you as you bought it from them.. Call the Manufacture direct.. That will fix that issue, and fast !" Every brochure I've seen has the same notice on it, to the effect that you should buy from your local dealer because he is NOT obligated to provide warranty service to units he didn't sell. That seems strange to me, but I guess if it is published then that is the rule and we have to abide by it. Most other industries don't operate that way, so it might be easy for an unaware buyer to assume that buying an RV at a dealer 500 miles away, saving $2000 over what the local dealer would charge, wouldn't change the local's warranty obligation. It would be good for the industry to get in line with the rest of the world, but until that could be a long time in coming.

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

There are stories of manufacturers telling purchasers to either take the coach to the selling dealer or bring it to the factory for warranty work.

The big problem with the RV industry's attitude is that an RV is intended to be mobile. We bought a new Heartland mpg trailer a couple of years ago and had some warranty work done by the selling dealer because we still were working. We were at the Heartland national rally when the propane hose started leaking and Heartland replaced it on the spot. I don't know what would have happened if the leak had started while we were somewhere else on that trip. I would hope that we would have been able to take it to the nearest Heartland dealer and have it fixed, but I don't know for sure. Perhaps someone could start a thread listing which brands have any dealer handle warranty claims.

Those brands which are sold only from the factory are a different story, since there aren't any dealers to handle warranty work. I know that some motor home brands are sold that way, but many have arrangements with various places to handle warranty claims.

Rob_Fla · RV-Dreams Family Member

We just had a warranty issue (which was a vendor / supplier item not a coach manufacturing problem) with our new Redwood, Crossroads contacted the closest Crossroads Dealer (not a Redwood dealer) and the problem was taken care of quickly.

Great customer service by Crossroads / Redwood !!!

The Junkman · RV-Dreams Family Member

You can always have it fixed and send them the bill too. And if I was on the road, no one to service it close, that is exactly what I would do...