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Post Info TOPIC: Should we think about carrying a gun


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RE: Should we think about carrying a gun


...this thread has more lives than a proverbial cat....
Glenn West wrote:

RVers with .45s worry us. That is a powerful gun and it will go thru your camper, ours and kill one of us.


 100% agree.  In my mind it does not matter how much training you have received or how gifted a shot you are, even stone cold blooded soldiers are subject to the adrenalin of even pointing a weapon at another person, and hitting a moving target is tough even for seasoned professional LEOs judging by the number of shots fired in many a gun battle reported on the news.  Overconfidence when it comes to gun use as a risk for collateral damage (a really bad way to describe unintended targets) scares me more than the people that would intentionally attempt to do harm to me or my family.  Being aware of your surroundings is, by far, the best defence. Got a bad feeling? Heed it and leave the area. Whatever it was that you wanted to do there cannot be more important than your own safety and peace of mind. 

 ...and yes I have been trained in firearm use, but as part of my duties when i was in the Military.  I see no need for having one for my own even in these so-called dangerous times we live in.  For those that wish to carry, that may well be your right (a debate about the second amendment should be held elsewhere) I only say know, truly know yourself and understand your reasons for owning/carrying lethal force and the responsibility and accountability that comes with it.  

Soap box now being placed back in storage...

Brian



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biggaRView wrote:
...this thread has more lives than a proverbial cat....
Glenn West wrote:

RVers with .45s worry us. That is a powerful gun and it will go thru your camper, ours and kill one of us.


 100% agree.  In my mind it does not matter how much training you have received or how gifted a shot you are, even stone cold blooded soldiers are subject to the adrenalin of even pointing a weapon at another person, and hitting a moving target is tough even for seasoned professional LEOs judging by the number of shots fired in many a gun battle reported on the news.  Overconfidence when it comes to gun use as a risk for collateral damage (a really bad way to describe unintended targets) scares me more than the people that would intentionally attempt to do harm to me or my family.  Being aware of your surroundings is, by far, the best defence. Got a bad feeling? Heed it and leave the area. Whatever it was that you wanted to do there cannot be more important than your own safety and peace of mind. 

 ...and yes I have been trained in firearm use, but as part of my duties when i was in the Military.  I see no need for having one for my own even in these so-called dangerous times we live in.  For those that wish to carry, that may well be your right (a debate about the second amendment should be held elsewhere) I only say know, truly know yourself and understand your reasons for owning/carrying lethal force and the responsibility and accountability that comes with it.  

Soap box now being placed back in storage...

Brian


 Yea, Running away might work... and then again it might not. In florida.. we can " stand our ground ".

 

Pretty sure all of us can kill, if faced with being killed. 

 



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I tend to agree with Steve, but you have to be VERY comfortable with your willingness to use firearms. And you have to continually train with them. IF you are not SURE you are willing to kill someone you should not possess a defensive firearm. It will only get you hurt or killed. And likely others as well.

Some comments: racking a shotgun is not a good practice. It 1) gives away your position and your tactical advantage 2) lets the perpetrator know you are armed, and with what 3)means you have less rounds in the gun that you "could" have 4) potentially increases the odds of having to fire, because of the loss of tactical advantage and thus the ability to retreat or call for help without interference 5) might "force" the perpetrator to fire if they are armed, because they are afraid you will fire first.

Also, indicating you are armed or even saying ANYTHING is a bad idea - again, a loss of tactical advantage. It is best to silently retreat as appropriate, lock doors where possible, call for help, and defend your position if not possible to retreat more. Once discovered you can say you are armed if the opportunity presents itself - but most instructors would say this is a BAD idea. It will FORCE the other person to shoot or be shot - in their mind. It can definitely cause a gunfight. Frankly, put into that position it is best to have only one shot made - yours. (That assumes deadly force is appropriate).

Any firearm used for self defense will go right through RV walls, including buckshot. Anyone with firearms training knows that. So you better be sure what you are doing and only fire if your life is on the line....because YOU are responsible for what comes out of your gun.

I don't completely agree with "stand your ground". I think it is ALWAYS best to avoid a confrontation and retreat where it is SAFE to do so. But the law says otherwise in many places. In those places you are not under an obligation to retreat, but I would contend that it is best to do so if you CAN SAFELY. Why? Because it reduces the chance of firing, the costs of firing, and means you are less likely to have a bullet hit something you do not intend to hit. Believe me, you do not want to fire if not forced to.

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I am not against guns. Grown up with them. My comment about .45s is because it is powerful enough to go through a person and kill another. Rv parks are close and odds are your neighbor could be shot in their home. We prefer 9 mill because of this. Unlikely it will go thru someone and injury another. Yes it would go thru two rv walls I'm fairly sure, not tried it. I consider iit a much safer gun for close communities.

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biggaRView wrote:

 ...and yes I have been trained in firearm use, but as part of my duties when i was in the Military.  I see no need for having one for my own even in these so-called dangerous times we live in.  For those that wish to carry, that may well be your right (a debate about the second amendment should be held elsewhere) I only say know, truly know yourself and understand your reasons for owning/carrying lethal force and the responsibility and accountability that comes with it.  

Soap box now being placed back in storage...

Brian


 That's about the best thing said so far...............



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Since it has been brought up, I'll mention that the original intent of this thread was with regards to self-protection and whether to use a firearm.  While I am a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment, any discussion of that topic will likely become political in nature in a hurry.  Therefore, any discussions that anyone wants to have with regards to the 2nd Amendment should be limited to forums related to self defense or firearms, not on RV Dreams' forum.

Terry



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Terry and Jo wrote:

.................  Therefore, any discussions that anyone wants to have with regards to the 2nd Amendment should be limited to forums related to self defense or firearms, not on RV Dreams' forum.

Terry


 .....................and yet again, another good comment.



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Who said anything about the second amendment and/or the issue of gun control? I must have missed that. I was responding to specific self defense issues that people posted in this thread - some of which are not at all "best practice". If you are going to use/have/carry a firearm you have a grave responsibility to do it right. And just getting a CCW is NOT doing it right. There is far more to it.

As far as bullets going through walls....

A 9mm with a typical load has around 350 lbs of kinetic energy. A .45 with a typical load has 490 lbs. A .40 with a typical load has 510 lbs. ALL will easily penetrate RV walls. A 12 ga. shotgun with OO buckshot (9 pellets of .33 caliber) has well over 150 lbs of energy (each pellet). Don't fool yourself - all of them will penetrate RV walls.

My point is that there is far more to this stuff than just carrying a gun. Do your homework. :)

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Jack Mayer wrote:


 My point is that there is far more to this stuff than just carrying a gun. Do your homework. :)


 Another good comment.

The whole big thing is...................Why does one even feel they "NEED" to have one?

Us Canadian's (or others) come down there unarmed and it's no biggy.



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Lot of people go unarmed, and without any situational awareness all their lives and have no issues at all. And some people do have issues. Your chances as a typical RVer of having any issues requiring deadly force are slim. But they do exist.

I won't answer the NEED question. It is a typical baiting question on the topic and does not fit into this forum. :)

My point remains - know your options. Make your choices. But if your choice is to possess a firearm you need to make sure you know how to use it properly. And shooting it a couple of times at the range is NOT proper training. I'd follow that with IMO - but it is not just my opinion - it is the opinion of anyone you might talk to that has any kind of credible training or experience.

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Lots of training available out there folks.. tactical, fire arm specific.. rifle or hand gun, home defense.. There is also training specifically for women and for youths.


Here is just a few that is available..

www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx

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If we know someone is next to us with a 44 45,etc we moving. A friend of mine was "mean" to his wife when drinking. She shot him in shoulder with a 22 to stop him. It ricocheted and nicked his heart. Liked to have died. Close range, inside rv, doesn't need a powerful gun. I still consider them more dangerous to others.

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Glenn West wrote:

If we know someone is next to us with a 44 45,etc we moving. A friend of mine was "mean" to his wife when drinking. She shot him in shoulder with a 22 to stop him. It ricocheted and nicked his heart. Liked to have died. Close range, inside rv, doesn't need a powerful gun. I still consider them more dangerous to others.


It's the rifles you should be worried about.

 



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Can we discuss the 19th Amendment???  biggrin



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Hi everyone. First post. Just found this site yesterday and have been reading/researching for future plans to FT. Stumbled upon this thread. This topic is much like religion and politics but I am happy to see in four pages of discussion that everyone has remained civil. I have had guns all my life and carry concealed regularly and always will. I have only had one incident with an intruder in my house and the dog actually saved the day. I won't get into debating the topic but I will just say that, when the need arises, it happens FAST. If you are counting on law enforcement to protect you, well, good luck.
So, I just wanted to add a little advice to those who do not feel that a firearm is for them that was shared with me by a guy I know who is a truck driver. I read a few comments about carrying mace/bear spray, etc. and how, in some areas, even that is considered a weapon. My truck driver friend told me that it is impossible to carry a weapon with all the laws, restrictions, jurisdictions, etc etc etc that they have to deal with. He said that he always keeps a can of wasp spray (the stuff that sprays 12 or 20 (whatever) feet). Nowhere that I know of is wasp spray illegal. He said you hit someone in the face with that and they are done. Apparently it has an adhesive like ingredient that makes it next to impossible to open your eyes. He had to use it once at a truck stop when some druggy tried to get in his truck with him in it sleeping. Once he incapacitated the dude with the spray, he called the cops. Cops arrived and he told them what happened. He said the cops could not stop laughing (Cops: "you sprayed him with WASP spray?"). Anyway, the perp got hauled off and he went back to sleep.

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Froggi wrote:

As a solo I do carry my handgun (with permit) and also a small shotgun (which my son bought me after my husband passed). I hope I never had to even THINK about using them. Here is an article on my web site that I think might help you.

Safety & Security: Guns and RVs


 Thought I'd check out your article but it appears to be broken, just so you know.



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Wasp spray? Nice!  I think I'll add that to my repertoire.

Also, there is no law against carrying a flashlight.  My personal favorite is a 4ea D-Cell Maglite.  I'll use a headlamp when checking sewer hoses and water connections and such in the dark but my Maglite is always within reach. I recently had a friend tell me they carry a baseball bat in all of their vehicles and by itself can be considered a 'concern' but when it is co-located with a ball glove and a couple of baseballs it magically transforms from 'potential weapon' to 'recreational sporting equipment - how nice'.

It's all about how one presents themselves.  Don't present yourself as a victim and you probably won't be one.  There are many parallels to the single female full timer thread - put up a Beware of Dog sign (regardless of canine cohabitation status), leave some manly boots next to the steps (regardless of relationship status), maybe even a "Don't Tread on Me" flag/bumper-sticker (regardless of political affiliation). 

Folks with nefarious intent will observe potential victims prior to acting on those intentions.  If you look like you'll be more trouble than its worth they'll identify another mark.  It is very rare that a violent act is completely spontaneous.



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Guns are only a tool, like self-defense both requires constant practice. It's not a cure-all. The legalities and responsibilities become very real when crossing State lines or entering other countries. Unfortunately, the good-ole-USA doesn't have a National Conceal & Carrie Permit. That allows each state to regulate their own laws in support of Federal Regulations. Kind of like the way some states are now coming around to legalizing marijuana. P/O; it's about time.

We have entered an imaginary form of delusional expectancy. Were led to believe that when an incident occurs we are to call 911 (given one has reception) and expect some miracle to come to our aid. Truth is the call is recorded, help maybe dispatched but what is the response time? The number you are calling from may have an address to respond to but is it your location? The point is you may have to take action and respond accordingly. I could continue this form of discussion but it would serve no one. The point is their are options and regardless of the situation, violence can and does occur everywhere. How do we respond to the threat? The choice is simple, be the victim or be the predator.  

There are several comments on this thread but for most, they require training and a constant practice that may fall short in the desired outcome. Some may even back-fire, I don't claim to have the answer but their other options worth consideration. 

  



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CqCasting wrote:
Froggi wrote:

As a solo I do carry my handgun (with permit) and also a small shotgun (which my son bought me after my husband passed). I hope I never had to even THINK about using them. Here is an article on my web site that I think might help you.

Safety & Security: Guns and RVs


 Thought I'd check out your article but it appears to be broken, just so you know.


 Froggi's comment was posted about 9 years ago.  In addition, Froggi hasn't logged into the forums since August of 2015.

I suspect that much in the way of laws regarding weapons has changed considerably over the last 9 years, so there may be information in this thread that is no longer valid.

Terry



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Ignoring the Barking Dogs  -  Terry's Blog



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We have been camping for over 30 years. We do carry one in our rig and our truck when traveling. I would better have it and never need it, then need one and not have it. I also would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6. So saying that I will say its your choice and what makes you feel the most comfortable. Just like others have said we have always met some of the best people camping and in campgrounds. But you also have to remember your also on the road and there is also breakdowns, flats and other things that can leave you stranded on the side of the road. The world is filed with good people. But being realistic its also filled with bad people and you never know who that will be. Just my 2 cents.



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Just for curiosity sake, I wanted to see if this thread was still running.  To my surprise it is, so that is kind of fun to read all the responses.  We are now in completing our 8th year on the road next month, and I am glad to say we have never needed a gun.  We have never come close to needing one.  But the thought did cross our mind and I appreciate all the responses.  It boiled down to the fact that we never owned one although I was trained in using one in the military.  I never felt quite right about the notion of having one in the motor home so we have not done that.

It is a very personal and individual choice.  

Randy and Pam

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Wow ... this seems to be an evergreen topic. Rather than offer an opinion on guns I'd like to talk about the safety of a 5th wheel with regards to the likelihood of a home invasion. In a 5'er you are higher up and in a tactically superior position to a possible invader. Additionally, the entrance door opens out and virtually impossible to be  kicked in, which is the usual way invaders enter homes, and an invader can't be on the top two steps or there's no room for the door to swing open. These things make the invasion of a 5th wheel very difficult for the bad guys. There are more reasons I think a 5th wheel is a pretty safe "home" but don't want to hijack the thread.



-- Edited by RonC on Tuesday 2nd of May 2017 10:40:20 AM



-- Edited by RonC on Tuesday 2nd of May 2017 10:42:27 AM

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