Composting?? How long is the process? Do you carry around an extra 200-300 pounds while the compost process works? I must say in 30 years of camping and RVing, I have never heard of a composting toilet in an RV.

Hi, Maybe you would like to look at the Pett toilet :
http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2736&deptid=1004
It makes everything biodegradable in a short while. Penny, TX

-- Edited by LakeConroePenny at 13:47, 2008-01-01

I'm curious about what you ended up doing, toilet-wise.  We are also looking at the Nature's Head, and would love to find someone who has some experience RVing with them.

We've been using our Nature's Head composting toilet exclusively for over a year now. We live in our motorhome, and find that we need to change the peat or coconut fiber just about every two weeks. We mounted the solar vent shed on the now-unused black tank vent, and with a few mods it's working well. Because we started out in the Northeast US, where we occasionally Google "solar" to refresh our memories, we supplemented the solar fan with a computer fan mounted in the vault outlet.

Fully-composted or not, we empty the vault of its treasures and dump the contents into a garbage bag. We don't throw toilet paper into the vault, only because it filled too quickly and made us change peat more often. It smells only very slightly poopish, and mostly earthy at that point.

For two people, urine dumping (I first typed "dumpling," and "urine dumpling" is not something I can recommend) has to happen just about every two days, if not more often. Less if you're underhydrated.

We started out using peat, which works very well, but is bulky and hard to work with and store, especially in limited spaces. We switched over to bricks of coconut fiber, which is more expensive, but stores nicely and is more sustainable than peat.

We approached this idea originally, because we wanted to boondock in remote locations for longish periods of time, and didn't want to be worried about finding dump stations. Overall, we've been pretty happy with our choice, and feel like we made the right decision for us.

ONE person in the EVERGREEN Owners Group on the web has a composting toilet. I think a Nature's Head.
See link in my signature box.
CCC

I know I am not doing something right! I am still reading this strange thread about using peat moss or coconut fiber to poop in when I have a very nice holding tank and a well defined public sewer system designed to accept the contents.

Gotta say I'm with Bill on this one, but then I'm not much of a boondocker unless I'm at a NASCAR race, and there someone with a big truck comes around, I give them $30 and my tank is miraculously empty again... lol Guess I'm a full hook ups kind of girl...

I have been studiously avoiding this one, but I just can't now. My sewage goes from the honey wagon to a certified sewage treatment plant, not into the drinking water anywhere.
The statement, "Fully-composted or not, we empty the vault of its treasures and dump the contents into a garbage bag". Now it is put into garbage bags to do what? Let the garbagemen of some city handle it? Or worse, let it go to a recycling plant where the bag will be opened and whatever is recyclable will be removed. Thank you, I will let the honeywagon haul it away for disposal and not be handled by anyone.
If I were a garbageman and I opened a bag of poop, I would be after the people that thought so little of me as to do this. At least fully compost before discarding.

-- Edited by 53 Merc on Monday 29th of August 2011 02:04:57 PM

Fully-composted or not, we empty the vault of its treasures and dump the contents into a garbage bag. We don't throw toilet paper into the vault, only because it filled too quickly and made us change peat more often. It smells only very slightly poopish, and mostly earthy at that point.
A: That's disgusting.
B: What do you do with that garbage bag? I (and at least one other poster) assume you put a garbage bag in the garbage. Those garbage bags go the recycling centers and the rookie gets the privilege of opening that bag!
C: Poop is safely treated, solids removed (and in most cases reused) and the liquids treated, sifted, treated and released. It's been working pretty well for, well, forever, and I have no issues with my waste being treated vs. having my waste piled up in some peat. If you can ensure that everyone using this method takes this "compost" and uses it in their back yard then I am fully onboard. If even one person takes their garbage bag to the dump them "I AM OUT!".

Honestly, Bill, were you seriously considering a composting toilet until you read about putting poop into the garbage?  I suspect you were "out" before the conversation began.  Am I wrong?

I'm still scratching my head over the rookie tucking into a bag of poop at the recycling center.  Is this truly how your local recycling works?  People throw recyclable materials into the garbage and challenge municipal employees to find it?  Are you sure this isn't a story your mom told you so you'd go to college?  Yes, I'm being flip, but this whole concept baffles me, being a long-time fan of the recyclling center and having to learn a whole list of do's and don'ts about recycling: 

Plastics 1-7, except for wide-mouth #5, steel cans, glass bottles (not light bulbs or cooking utensils), poop ...

Being confused still, I'm wondering if the rookies have to sift through cat litter and dog manure, too?  My cats will eat aluminum foil if given the chance, and that's recyclable. And, what about the diapers?  There's no telling what kind of recyclables might be hiding in there.

My feeling is that we've all been maneuvered into a mindset where non-human manure is holy and natural, while humanure is vile and abhorrent.  Cats, dogs and wildlife harbor intestinal parasites and other pathogens.  Cattle are the main reservoir for EHEC and anthrax.  Beavers disseminate Giardia.  Birds carry Salmonella, encepalitis viruses, histoplasmosis, EHEC, flu viruses, and mycoplasmas.  It's a germy world out there.

If you don't want to compost your manure, don't compost your manure.   This was simply a discussion of the possiblilites available for doing so, and it's my impression that some people are interested, while many are not.  That's probably why there are so few people here commenting and reading, while the threads called "I pay people to make my poop vanish!" are well-populated.

Everybody please, Can we stay on topic? The topic was started by somebody who wanted advice on composting toilets and the different models available and how well they work. We know many people like there holding tanks, you can find this info out anywhere.

Back on topic to the info/experience that is hard to find...
I just came back from a 6 week trip and just dumped my Sunmar composting toilet for the first time. It was 1/2 full, which is when you are supposed to dump it. The nice thing about it, if you have no where to dump it, you can always wait a week, and over fill it a bit. The screws that hold the finishing drawer were a bit tough to remove, (they are thumb screws, but I needed Vice grips, even after oiling them) the compost had no smell and looked like fluffy peat moss. I put it in my garden mixed it in the soil with my shrubs.
I am impressed on how little the toilet smells, even when we were camped in 105 degrees. I often had problems with a smelly toilet tank. Glad I switched! I admit that this process isn't for everyone, the toilet is pricy and it requires maintenance and needs custom installation. I would like to hear about some of the other models and peoples experience. There are quite a few marine/rv models available...Natures Head, Air Head, Sun-Mar, I saw a couple other Marine models that I can't seem to locate on google.

I have no idea why, but for some reason reading this thread amuses me. Poop is  natural, and ever since pooping creatures have appeared on the Earth the planet has been recycling this material into organic matter that has replenished the soil, providing food for us all.

The rich farmlands of the midwest exist because of millions of bison pooping their way across the plains.

I can remember when I was a kid our family driving from Detroit to my grandmother's cottage on Lake Erie in Ontario, passing through many farmlands on the way. The farmers plowed manure into their fields as a natural fertilizer. It did stink in an earthy way, but when harvest season came around that was some of the best fresh corn I ever had.

Maybe it's only an issue now because in Star Trek parlance there are too many 'carbon units' on the planet now...  

Hi Tim and Robyn,

I'm not positive you're asking me specifically, but I'll be glad to address your questions as best I can.

 

1)  There definitely are other options available, but I am far from convinced that they are superior (or even equal, but I'm not trying to impugn other people's motives).  The other options are conventional, and that's not always a compelling quality.

2)  "Completely composted" is hard for me to define.  Some people compost their manure to the point of using it on their vegetable gardens, and that process may be 2-3 years.  Composting in general begins within a week, and if you put your hand on the outside of the vault, you'll feel considerable heat being generated almost immediately, which is a sign of microbial action.  

To give you some perspective, two weeks' worth of continuously-composting manure from two people weighs about 15 pounds. How much would that much manure weigh mixed with water?  Urine is a consideration in the holding tank scenario, and so a conventional black tank's contents would likely weigh 15 pounds inside a day.  Most conventional RVers wouldn't travel to a dump site every day (and pay $5-10) to rid themselves of that weight, so overall, composting in an RV weighs much less than the conventional option.

[Let me say here that we look at this from an extreme boondocking perspective.  We don't camp in campgrounds generally.  We are also fans of an off-grid stationary life, although we aren't there yet.  This may help to explain why we find this a superior process.]

But, if we can reach some agreement on what "fully composted" is, and we can draw that arbitrary line,  I would put it on/in the ground.  There is no longer any reason to separate it in any way.  This is great for a homesteader, or anyone who is living stationary, as you said.  Because I am not going to carry our manure around for a couple of months, I settle for the less-perfect option of separating it to continue its composting in a landfill.  I  agree that landfills are a blight, but we all like to think that our household waste in general is going to biodegrade (rot) and go back to the Earth.  Not necessarily true ... except maybe for my lone bag of already-composting manure.

My poop is not doing any good in a landfill.  It will be a resource when we stop traveling, assuming we are in a place where we can "resource" it.  Now, my concern is "where will my poop cause the least impact?"  In a conventional (house) scenario, I might use the toilet six times a day (more if beer is involved).  Pooping and peeing into and flushing away about 10 gallons of drinking water.  After that, it is no longer really a resource (although farmers buy the heavy-metal-contaminated sludge as fertilizer for open fields).  For two of us, that's about 280 gallons of fresh water in a two week period.  As a couple, we have effectively created 1.1 tons of waste that must be dealt with, as opposed to 15 pounds of composting manure.

3)  When you gotta dump, you gotta dump.  A conventional RVer will have to travel to a dump station, and a boondocker will have to travel further.  This is not something that can be delayed for long.  When they get there, they'll have to pay a fee, understandably.  This fee feels small and totally worth it when the tank is dangerously full!  A composting toilet says "Relax!  Empty me tomorrow, or the next day, or on Thursday if you get a chance."

3a)  In our Nature's Head, the urine is separated from the manure mechanically, and we dump the urine onto the ground.  Under duress, we will dump it into a flush toilet.  This amounts to about 1.5 gallons every two days, with two people using it.  See above for beer disclaimer.

My re-disclaimer:  I'm not trying to knock conventional poop flushers.  Since you were interested enough, and so kind as to ask polite questions, I've tried to give you a sense of why we compost.  I'll admit to being strongly influenced by Joseph Jenkins' book Humanure (which you can download chapter by chapter here for free:  http://humanurehandbook.com/contents.html)

Interesting CR, It is interesting to hear about other options, while it may not be for everyone, you have demonstrated some advantages Composting has over the traditional and more common approach to RV waste management.....

Thanks, Gene.  No, it certainly won't be for everyone.  But, three years ago we were absolutely certain it wasn't for us, either.  I just like the idea that it might get caught in someone's brain, somewhere along the line.

Depending upon how long you want to stay, you can start looking at this site for camping in the Quartsite/Yuma, AZ area.
http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/prog/recreation/camping/LTVA/laposa.html

WOOHOO!  That's great!

I'm glad someone shared the PETT toilet on nrsweb.com. I've seen these in the RV store and camping section of Walmart, but I had some concerns which have now been addressed:

1. How would I take my little bags of poop to public trash cans?
2. Wouldn't they stink? (I can just see carrying it around in my purse and waiting till no one is looking before placing it in a trash receptacle outside of walmart.)
3. Wouldn't the plastic bags leak if it was not solid? (I can pee in a jug and smuggle it into the Walmart to dump down the toilet, but let's face it, poop doesn't always come out nice and solid.)
4. It seems disturbingly un-eco-friendly to use a plastic bag every time you poop.

After watching the video at this link www.nrs.com/product/2736/cleanwaste-portable-toilet-system
I now have some answers.

1. Well, I still have to find public trash cans, but it seems easier to me to dispose of small bags often rather than big 15 lb bags every couple of weeks.
2. They make "poo powder" which uses deodorizers (not perfumes) to reduce the smell.
3. The poo powder turns liquids into a solid gel very quickly for easier transport and safer disposal. I guess it contains the pathogens in a gel instead of letting your stuff leak out and bathe the whole garbage can with it. (But they still suggest you transport the bags in a rigid water tight container.)
4. The bags are quick degrading. The poo powder starts the breakdown process quickly. This solution is actually preferred by government agencies than pooping in a hole. (See quotes below)

"WAG BAG waste bags are landfill approved and can be disposed of in trash with regular garbage
Permitted by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management for use on rivers and in Wilderness Areas where toilets are required
Cleanwaste PETT portable environmental toilet is recommended by the Leave No Trace program in conjunction with the National Forest Service"

For some reason I feel weird or wrong about putting bags of poop into public garbage cans, but people put diapers in them all the time. And people put kitty litter, baby and adult diapers, in home garbage cans all the time. Not to mention rotting meat scraps. Garbage is not clean. That's just the way it is. I would rather live on a farm and compost my waste to be used to grow food, but since I plan to live in an RV, I'd rather put my waste in biodegradable bags with a biodegrading agent, then waste so much water.

Also, since I plan to live in a small home-made van-sized RV, the compact size is perfect.
My purpose for living in a vehicle is to travel as a musician, not so much to see wilderness areas. So, I will be city camping a lot. This means that I will hopefully borrow public toilets the vast majority of the time. This is even more reason to love the compact size of this toilet. It's just for logistical "emergencies".

Smell

Interesting that this topic revived after three years!

I encourage anyone considering a composting toilet to watch the video on gonewiththewynns.com  It answers all the usual questions plus some you may not have thought of.  We are definitely considering it.

 

Jodee